I didn’t get around to reading the previous post that this one is response to (I’ll try to get around to it later) but this was a great read. Dr. Helen Jacobi brought up some points that I’ve been thinking about often myself as I’ve been walking away/deconstructing the evangelical bubble I grew up in.
Dr. Jacobi’s point of “checking your brain at the door” is so spot on. I feel as though many religious leaders (and people who abuse their power in general) promote, for lack of a better term, uneducation and encourage their followers NOT to rely on critical thinking skills and consequently NOT to pursue higher education. I’ve noticed this especially in the case of women in church. And if you must pursue some kind of higher education, god forbid it’s at a secular, worldly institution. I remember when I applied to go to undergrad at a popular secular university, gossip spread in my church and some of the members confronted my parents about it. Sadly, I also see how this manipulation has effected my mother. I was trying to explain to her one day how the Rapture was a doctrine invented in the 19th century. I had done my research from a variety of sources and had my argument laid out. Unfortunately, my mom’s main takeaway was to ask me why I was looking to outside resources instead of just the Bible for answers…My response was, “Because that’s what research is, Mom! This is what critical thinking entails - looking beyond just one ancient text and looking beyond what one charismatic person standing at a pulpit says.” I was flabbergasted to say the least. Also, I just spent a weekend with family members who fit into this category of religious anti-vaxx and I honestly can’t understand their logic. It confounds me and makes me sad. That weekend I walked way feeling really discouraged and disconnected from family. My aunt was raving about the likes of Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and so, being the critical thinker and open-minded person that I hope I am, I listened to some of their podcasts with her…I’m still trying to decipher that experience and why she’s such a fan of these two. Then she went on to express how wrong feminists are all the while I’m sitting there - a feminist who is trying to be more vocal about my feminist stance - feeling incredibly uncomfortable.
Same with my other aunt who is still unvaccinated, even after attending my mom’s wedding of approx. thirty people, and also, as I discovered that same weekend, Islamophobic. I expressed my anxiety and fear for women in Afghanistan right now and her response was to hate on Muslim people…not extremist terror groups, but Muslim people in general. I felt sick. To summarize, what I'm ranting about here is that from my perspective this can perhaps all dwindle down to not engaging in critical thinking, thinking little of higher education and, consequently, only listening to charismatic people in leadership positions. This has been weighing so heavily on my mind so to be able to express it in this safe community is 🙏🏻 Rant over and thanks for listening you guys.
Go you for attempting the debate. Outside sources are such an enemy of this type of conservative Christianity - and of course, all these other "facts" are placed there by the devil etc. With that point of view, you don't even have a hope in hell of cutting through. It's wildly frustrating - so kudos for trying, but yeah - I also don't want you to wear yourself out. But also you are very free to rant here anytime you want. Please keep doing so - it's therapy (for you, and some reading it I imagine).
Thanks David. Yeah, it definitely feels like a Sisyphus scenario where you’re just exhausting your efforts on something that will perpetually roll back down the hill of “if it’s not in the Bible or from the mouth of men at the pulpit then it must be of the devil.”
Dear Ali - I'm here just to say I'm so sorry you are having to live with this disconnect within your family, and to express solidarity as someone from a similar family. I left my "evangelical bubble" over 25years ago and over that time my approach has changed. My mum is one of the manipulated you spoke of. I've realised my mum's need for security means she is happy to accept their doctrine rather than sit with the uncertainty of having to think critically. Critical thinking can feel scary to those who have grown up in a very critical household as my mum did. Better off doing what you are told. And they are told by these types of churches that to ask questions means you don't have "faith" and therefore are distancing yourself from god. In my 20s I yelled at her a lot (which was highly ineffective :)), in my 30s I got some counselling, and now in my 40s I am actively working to reverse-convert her on any issue I can by appealing to her values & relating every social justice issue I can to the values of Jesus and "the love". Recently it was on BLM and abortion. I often have to actively practice mindfulness as I am talking to her so I don’t lose my temper – but she has shifted her views slowly over the years. I feel so very sad about it, and angry (it is my comment about anger that David posted above), but I want to keep trying. Of course, not trying is totally valid - as Sarah said in her reply we can make our own families. But for me I know that our beliefs are created within a social context - and if she doesn't hear voices of dissent from people she loves, then all she is left with is the noise and bigotry of her church. Please know that there are many of us ranting alongside you!
Well said. If you can calmly show the alternative viewpoint, with love on your side, hopefully you can help your family members to broaden their views and opinions. Remember that if it becomes too emotionally taxing, you can’t help anyone if you haven’t first helped yourself! So make sure you can cope and don’t let it overwhelm you either.
Totally. Thanks Sarah. I definitely need to be more cognizant about the stress it causes me sometimes because if I’m not calm and loving myself then how can I do so towards others?
Thanks so much Felicia for these words of encouragement. I definitely feel like I’m in the same boat as you were/are going off of this reply. I do sense that fear is what is holding my mom back. I remember her saying to me quite a bit while I started deconstructing how she was sad I was so full of doubt. My response was that I may be doubtful and critical about things but I’m more happy in my spirituality (or lack thereof) than I had been before. Realizing my autonomy made me happy - isn’t that what we should strive for? And it also has made me more aware of the social injustices in this world and how I can intervene. Isn’t that what Jesus has asked us to do? I think she’s been slowly understanding how I feel and what I think and I think that has to do mostly by engaging in conversations with her on social justice, just like yourself and your mom. We had a super intimate and vulnerable chat about the residential school system here is Canada and she agreed that the church is to blame. It was a breakthrough and I felt so happy to be so open with her about it. Thanks again Felicia for being so open to speak about this 🙏🏻
You are so welcome - and as Sarah and David said, take care of yourself. It’s big, and there can be a lot of sadness and anger and grief in it. I’ll be thinking of you!
Oh wow, I’m so sorry, how gut wrenching! Perhaps a bit of distance will be healthy for you. David has written some pieces last year about how to reach people down the “I dID mY OwN REsEaRCh” hole without pushing them further in. I’m sure you’ve already read them but could be worth a revisit. The other thing to remember, much as it can be painful, families are often made and found rather than build by blood. A genetic link does not necessitate loving or even liking someone. It’s a hard one.
I should revisit those past Webworm posts - they are definitely relevant here but first I think I need to build up some energy after the last month. It was a taxing one for sure.
Thanks David. As one of your Christian readers (and friends), I was palpably relieved that you got an alternative perspective from a respected and authentic person in the wider church world. Mortlock, Tamaki et al give the rest of us reasonable, smart, compassionate and liberal people a very bad name and I often read pieces like this (incl. the back and forth between you and Mortlock) with great discomfort and misery. I'm grateful to feel represented by Helen and her ilk (similar to my own smart, compassionate and liberal Anglican vicar). Arohanui, e hoa.
Thanks Sarah. Yeah, occasionally when I rally against these idiots I do think to myself of Christian friends and hate to think I'm talking at them - so yeah, bringing Helen in was kinda vital at this point. Also just to remind wider agnostic or atheist readers that sanity still exists in the Christian community. It's not all a fresh hell, as I know you can attest to!
Sarah (and David) I agree. I'm also one of the Christian readers and I know there are many great Christian leaders and pastors who don't share the views of Mortlock et al. Thankyou to Helen for her piece. I agree with Sarah's words about the discomfort and misery reading some of the words here!
Thanks Sarah, glad to hear you have a "smart, compassionate and liberal vicar". I hope you have let them know that is what you think - often we don't hear the good feedback!
My SIL is a very highly-trained nurse practitioner in Aus and runs a start-up pain management company that has caught the eye of Otago Medical School and several prominent insurance companies. In addition to advanced nursing credentials, she holds post-grad degrees in pain management and psychology. And she's taking hydroxychloroquine, refusing the AZ vax, and encouraging her thousands of social media followers to do the same.
While not religious in any way, she displays exactly the same traits as the religious nutjobs who insist that some invisible sky friend will save them from anything and everything. Her crutch is the "power" of natural immunity.
It just defies belief. And it's impossible to discuss with her because it's not simply a matter of dealing with sketchy religious views; it's that she uses her medical heft to dismiss what her own profession knows (and has proven) to be true.
This has driven quite a wedge between our families, and I'm watching my partner watching his sister head off down the rabbit hole, maybe never to return.
My bf works in a place that specializes in aeronautics. There have been several infections over the past year and a half with the engineers who had to continue going into office while everyone else stayed at home.
The organization where my bf works is considering a vaccine mandate or twice weekly COVID tests to bring everyone back to the office. Some of those engineers, even at least one who has been infected, have protested the idea of a vaccine mandate for the office.
These are people who deal with science, with these things called facts. Yet even they are not immune to the disease or misinformation.
Thanks - what's great is that all the people I've approached so far leap to write here - which is *such* a nice feeling. Rewarding for me - and everyone, I think - including them!
I love how Mortlock doesn’t want “ necessarily to get you to change your mind” about him, and doesn’t need or want publicity. He just wants yoi to write from a “personal knowledgable perspective” i.e. use his words.
Total b.s. He wants just the opposite and is operating from a place of false humility. The playbook that these guys operate from, it’s so blatantly obvious, their manipulations are so pathetic.
These people give Christianity a bad name.
Love the photos.
On a different tangent, a couple of my favorite hikes in Malibu are the Bulldog Trail in Malibu Creek State Park (it’s a loop, but the trail is unmarked by the water treatment plant), and Nicholas Flats in Leo Carillo State Park. Great views from both, but Nicholas Flats is heaven after the rains and when the grass is green. Go during the week when the parks aren’t crowded. If you enter Nicholas Flat trail from Mulholland, it’s an easier hike and there aren’t so many people.
Bulldog Loop trail has great views of the ocean and some caves that look like they are from Planet of the Apes (the original movies). Plus you hike through the old set from M*A*S*H*.
Thanks so much for the Nicholas Flats and Bulldog trail advice - there are so many good walks here, I just have to find them! And yeah, I agree on all fronts over that smarmy AF email. False humility 110%.
Totally. It’s so contradictory because if you’re actually doing your own research, you’d be listening to infectious disease and vaccine experts who have been researching this stuff for years.
Yeah, to come straight back with that - it's just, well - not even worth arguing with. He's a human stain, a waste of the skin pulled over his skeleton.
Thanks David. It was nice to have balance in the narrative around church leadership.
For the dickheads its not even about god. Its just a platform for power and manipulation. They are like shitty politicians. The David Seymours of Jesus, if you will. They will spin anything for their own purposes, which mostly seems to be financial gain and kudos from other arseholes- always at the expense of those they claim to care about.
But its not everyone and we do need to remember that.
Yeah, built in power (and money, which is power) is very appealing to these dimwits. Mortlock's instagram is just screaming white privilege. It's utterly fucked.
The whole anti vax thing gets me so effing riled up I can't STAND IT. People nowadays think they're so special and have so much choice. They've done the research and they just personally don't think the vaccine is for them because Bill Gates wants to harvest their organs and the WHO is a cabal based in a tax haven trying to turn us all sterile? Massive eye roll. We take vaccines to protect the vulnerable that either can't have them or that will be severely impacted if they catch the disease. We accept a tiny amount of those that receive the vaccine will experience side effects. Of course if you caught the disease the vaccine was vaccinating you against you'd definitely suffer side effects, some of them deadly or with life long debilitating consequences. I find it deliciously ironic that these preachers use fear to control their congregations with wild stories about conspiracies about being controlled externally by governments 😅 Its all a bit reminiscent of a Steven King novel? In other news, I'm off to get my second Pfizer today! Apparently the second one is the nasty one so thoughts and prayers everyone 🙏😂
A coworker of mine finally got vaxxed (she was the only holdout), and that’s only because the Delta variant scared her so much. The other day she told me that it was “her choice” whether or not to get vaccinated. This was after we found out that someone in our workplace tested positive for COVID.
I bit my tongue and saved my arguing for another day.
So true, you've really got to pick your battles. I had a couple colleagues holding out but once they saw how hard a couple of us were trying to get ours they came around and got vaxxed 😅 I don't think it's a choice at all, more like a social responsibility, like educating children or not murdering other people.
My parents have regularly attended church throughout the pandemic, despite my mother being in a very high-risk category. They're not denialists or antivaxxers--just the opposite in fact. Both were vaxxed as soon as they were able, and they've had a small stock of N95 masks for years "just in case".
They're also very Catholic though. They livestreamed Mass for the first few months, until the Church started offering outdoor services, masks mandatory with hand sanitizer provided at the door. But as summer started, and the infections started to level off, services went back to indoor-only, with masks only "recommended". This being a very conservative part of California (they exist! It's Kevin McCarthy's district, in fact), you can imagine how many people heeded that recommendation. Now my parents are stuck attending indoor services with people who may or may not be vaccinated, but refuse to wear masks either way. Luckily, they still have some N95s.
It's infuriating to watch people preach love and care towards others, but still refuse to take the most basic precautions to protect others. I know for certain that the reason they won't institute a mask mandate is for fear of "offending" their nuttier members.
Sorry to hear this, Joe. Catholics to me seem on the sane end of it all, overall. Which feels weird to say. But yeah, it's sad to hear of this situation devolving into a potentially dangerous situation. Opiate of the masses and all that, huh.
I'd like to pipe up here that Catholics have their own share of leaders and congregation that are very similar to City Impact, like I imagine Amy Coney Barrett's congregation would be. Being such a large organisation, there are a wide range of beliefs about the world, so, for example, while some support Pope Francis' reforms, some oppose them, and some don't feel they go far enough (most probably aren't aware of them though).
Brian Tamaki is obviously against the legislation to Ban Conversion Therapy in NZ, but not just his NZ flock he's sending his message all over the world getting homophobic's everywhere to submit against a ban in little old New Zealand. Along with all the other churches who want to pray away the gay. Last day for submissions is September 8th.
As someone who was raised in a church (Methodist) I find these evangelical happy clappy churches fascinatingly weird & dangerous. Thanks for highlighting their weirdness. I left the church community I was raised in at the age of 16 because of the homophobia that in many ways took over the churches true calling card. I’m happiest out of those confines & living a good & fully vaccinated life. Kia ora
Somewhat off topic, but I see Peter Williams is leaving Magic Talk. Wonder if he was pushed? Can’t say I’m upset - one fewer covid crank on the airwaves…
Reading this reminded me when I was a studio operator at RNZ in the early 90s & Peter Williams foraged a massive booger out of his nose. Can't recall if he ate it. Probably looked away at that point.
Thanks for this David. I have a sister and her grown children who belong to some church group who have gone completely down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. And my sister-in-law belongs to Destiny Church - enough said. I have nothing to say to them - I just cant even understand how, why, WTAF ?? Helen Jacobi's comment about 'leaving their brains at the door' certainly rings true because they believe without question or critical thinking which exactly how their respective churches want them to keep control. And they can't even see the irony
Sorry you've lost some family to Destiny - it's pretty awful. Hopefully they snap out of it at some point - it can happen - but yeah, it's not worth your mental health to keep engaging. It's sad, but kudos to you.
Wow Helen Jacobi is a lovely, humorous fresh breath of feminist air, what a joy after the inane ramblings of those two other male church “leaders”. More of this sort of thing! Also your photos are divine David. Perhaps you can do a limited print run? Put my name down!
She must sometimes look around the male company in Christian leadership and roll her eyes hard. Very glad she wrote some sane words for this - a reminder that not all Christian leaders are grifters.
I didn’t get around to reading the previous post that this one is response to (I’ll try to get around to it later) but this was a great read. Dr. Helen Jacobi brought up some points that I’ve been thinking about often myself as I’ve been walking away/deconstructing the evangelical bubble I grew up in.
Dr. Jacobi’s point of “checking your brain at the door” is so spot on. I feel as though many religious leaders (and people who abuse their power in general) promote, for lack of a better term, uneducation and encourage their followers NOT to rely on critical thinking skills and consequently NOT to pursue higher education. I’ve noticed this especially in the case of women in church. And if you must pursue some kind of higher education, god forbid it’s at a secular, worldly institution. I remember when I applied to go to undergrad at a popular secular university, gossip spread in my church and some of the members confronted my parents about it. Sadly, I also see how this manipulation has effected my mother. I was trying to explain to her one day how the Rapture was a doctrine invented in the 19th century. I had done my research from a variety of sources and had my argument laid out. Unfortunately, my mom’s main takeaway was to ask me why I was looking to outside resources instead of just the Bible for answers…My response was, “Because that’s what research is, Mom! This is what critical thinking entails - looking beyond just one ancient text and looking beyond what one charismatic person standing at a pulpit says.” I was flabbergasted to say the least. Also, I just spent a weekend with family members who fit into this category of religious anti-vaxx and I honestly can’t understand their logic. It confounds me and makes me sad. That weekend I walked way feeling really discouraged and disconnected from family. My aunt was raving about the likes of Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and so, being the critical thinker and open-minded person that I hope I am, I listened to some of their podcasts with her…I’m still trying to decipher that experience and why she’s such a fan of these two. Then she went on to express how wrong feminists are all the while I’m sitting there - a feminist who is trying to be more vocal about my feminist stance - feeling incredibly uncomfortable.
Same with my other aunt who is still unvaccinated, even after attending my mom’s wedding of approx. thirty people, and also, as I discovered that same weekend, Islamophobic. I expressed my anxiety and fear for women in Afghanistan right now and her response was to hate on Muslim people…not extremist terror groups, but Muslim people in general. I felt sick. To summarize, what I'm ranting about here is that from my perspective this can perhaps all dwindle down to not engaging in critical thinking, thinking little of higher education and, consequently, only listening to charismatic people in leadership positions. This has been weighing so heavily on my mind so to be able to express it in this safe community is 🙏🏻 Rant over and thanks for listening you guys.
Go you for attempting the debate. Outside sources are such an enemy of this type of conservative Christianity - and of course, all these other "facts" are placed there by the devil etc. With that point of view, you don't even have a hope in hell of cutting through. It's wildly frustrating - so kudos for trying, but yeah - I also don't want you to wear yourself out. But also you are very free to rant here anytime you want. Please keep doing so - it's therapy (for you, and some reading it I imagine).
Thanks David. Yeah, it definitely feels like a Sisyphus scenario where you’re just exhausting your efforts on something that will perpetually roll back down the hill of “if it’s not in the Bible or from the mouth of men at the pulpit then it must be of the devil.”
Dear Ali - I'm here just to say I'm so sorry you are having to live with this disconnect within your family, and to express solidarity as someone from a similar family. I left my "evangelical bubble" over 25years ago and over that time my approach has changed. My mum is one of the manipulated you spoke of. I've realised my mum's need for security means she is happy to accept their doctrine rather than sit with the uncertainty of having to think critically. Critical thinking can feel scary to those who have grown up in a very critical household as my mum did. Better off doing what you are told. And they are told by these types of churches that to ask questions means you don't have "faith" and therefore are distancing yourself from god. In my 20s I yelled at her a lot (which was highly ineffective :)), in my 30s I got some counselling, and now in my 40s I am actively working to reverse-convert her on any issue I can by appealing to her values & relating every social justice issue I can to the values of Jesus and "the love". Recently it was on BLM and abortion. I often have to actively practice mindfulness as I am talking to her so I don’t lose my temper – but she has shifted her views slowly over the years. I feel so very sad about it, and angry (it is my comment about anger that David posted above), but I want to keep trying. Of course, not trying is totally valid - as Sarah said in her reply we can make our own families. But for me I know that our beliefs are created within a social context - and if she doesn't hear voices of dissent from people she loves, then all she is left with is the noise and bigotry of her church. Please know that there are many of us ranting alongside you!
Well said. If you can calmly show the alternative viewpoint, with love on your side, hopefully you can help your family members to broaden their views and opinions. Remember that if it becomes too emotionally taxing, you can’t help anyone if you haven’t first helped yourself! So make sure you can cope and don’t let it overwhelm you either.
Totally. Thanks Sarah. I definitely need to be more cognizant about the stress it causes me sometimes because if I’m not calm and loving myself then how can I do so towards others?
Completely! It’s a lot of negativity and really draining. Gotta put you first if you want to make headway. Kia haha!
Thanks so much Felicia for these words of encouragement. I definitely feel like I’m in the same boat as you were/are going off of this reply. I do sense that fear is what is holding my mom back. I remember her saying to me quite a bit while I started deconstructing how she was sad I was so full of doubt. My response was that I may be doubtful and critical about things but I’m more happy in my spirituality (or lack thereof) than I had been before. Realizing my autonomy made me happy - isn’t that what we should strive for? And it also has made me more aware of the social injustices in this world and how I can intervene. Isn’t that what Jesus has asked us to do? I think she’s been slowly understanding how I feel and what I think and I think that has to do mostly by engaging in conversations with her on social justice, just like yourself and your mom. We had a super intimate and vulnerable chat about the residential school system here is Canada and she agreed that the church is to blame. It was a breakthrough and I felt so happy to be so open with her about it. Thanks again Felicia for being so open to speak about this 🙏🏻
You are so welcome - and as Sarah and David said, take care of yourself. It’s big, and there can be a lot of sadness and anger and grief in it. I’ll be thinking of you!
Oh wow, I’m so sorry, how gut wrenching! Perhaps a bit of distance will be healthy for you. David has written some pieces last year about how to reach people down the “I dID mY OwN REsEaRCh” hole without pushing them further in. I’m sure you’ve already read them but could be worth a revisit. The other thing to remember, much as it can be painful, families are often made and found rather than build by blood. A genetic link does not necessitate loving or even liking someone. It’s a hard one.
I should revisit those past Webworm posts - they are definitely relevant here but first I think I need to build up some energy after the last month. It was a taxing one for sure.
Thanks David. As one of your Christian readers (and friends), I was palpably relieved that you got an alternative perspective from a respected and authentic person in the wider church world. Mortlock, Tamaki et al give the rest of us reasonable, smart, compassionate and liberal people a very bad name and I often read pieces like this (incl. the back and forth between you and Mortlock) with great discomfort and misery. I'm grateful to feel represented by Helen and her ilk (similar to my own smart, compassionate and liberal Anglican vicar). Arohanui, e hoa.
Thanks Sarah. Yeah, occasionally when I rally against these idiots I do think to myself of Christian friends and hate to think I'm talking at them - so yeah, bringing Helen in was kinda vital at this point. Also just to remind wider agnostic or atheist readers that sanity still exists in the Christian community. It's not all a fresh hell, as I know you can attest to!
Sarah (and David) I agree. I'm also one of the Christian readers and I know there are many great Christian leaders and pastors who don't share the views of Mortlock et al. Thankyou to Helen for her piece. I agree with Sarah's words about the discomfort and misery reading some of the words here!
Thanks Sarah, glad to hear you have a "smart, compassionate and liberal vicar". I hope you have let them know that is what you think - often we don't hear the good feedback!
My SIL is a very highly-trained nurse practitioner in Aus and runs a start-up pain management company that has caught the eye of Otago Medical School and several prominent insurance companies. In addition to advanced nursing credentials, she holds post-grad degrees in pain management and psychology. And she's taking hydroxychloroquine, refusing the AZ vax, and encouraging her thousands of social media followers to do the same.
While not religious in any way, she displays exactly the same traits as the religious nutjobs who insist that some invisible sky friend will save them from anything and everything. Her crutch is the "power" of natural immunity.
It just defies belief. And it's impossible to discuss with her because it's not simply a matter of dealing with sketchy religious views; it's that she uses her medical heft to dismiss what her own profession knows (and has proven) to be true.
This has driven quite a wedge between our families, and I'm watching my partner watching his sister head off down the rabbit hole, maybe never to return.
This is so fucking sad. Sorry, AR.
So heartbreaking and infuriating to watch aye
My bf works in a place that specializes in aeronautics. There have been several infections over the past year and a half with the engineers who had to continue going into office while everyone else stayed at home.
The organization where my bf works is considering a vaccine mandate or twice weekly COVID tests to bring everyone back to the office. Some of those engineers, even at least one who has been infected, have protested the idea of a vaccine mandate for the office.
These are people who deal with science, with these things called facts. Yet even they are not immune to the disease or misinformation.
Sigh.
Once you're embedded in these beliefs, for whatever reason, it's maddening to see how hard it is to dig yourself out.
I really like all the guest writers you feature in this newsletter. It's so respectful, and also enlightening.
Thanks - what's great is that all the people I've approached so far leap to write here - which is *such* a nice feeling. Rewarding for me - and everyone, I think - including them!
I love how Mortlock doesn’t want “ necessarily to get you to change your mind” about him, and doesn’t need or want publicity. He just wants yoi to write from a “personal knowledgable perspective” i.e. use his words.
Total b.s. He wants just the opposite and is operating from a place of false humility. The playbook that these guys operate from, it’s so blatantly obvious, their manipulations are so pathetic.
These people give Christianity a bad name.
Love the photos.
On a different tangent, a couple of my favorite hikes in Malibu are the Bulldog Trail in Malibu Creek State Park (it’s a loop, but the trail is unmarked by the water treatment plant), and Nicholas Flats in Leo Carillo State Park. Great views from both, but Nicholas Flats is heaven after the rains and when the grass is green. Go during the week when the parks aren’t crowded. If you enter Nicholas Flat trail from Mulholland, it’s an easier hike and there aren’t so many people.
Bulldog Loop trail has great views of the ocean and some caves that look like they are from Planet of the Apes (the original movies). Plus you hike through the old set from M*A*S*H*.
Thanks so much for the Nicholas Flats and Bulldog trail advice - there are so many good walks here, I just have to find them! And yeah, I agree on all fronts over that smarmy AF email. False humility 110%.
The old "I'm not anti vax! I'm just encouraging people to do their own research!" defence 🤢
Totally. It’s so contradictory because if you’re actually doing your own research, you’d be listening to infectious disease and vaccine experts who have been researching this stuff for years.
Yeah, to come straight back with that - it's just, well - not even worth arguing with. He's a human stain, a waste of the skin pulled over his skeleton.
Thanks David. It was nice to have balance in the narrative around church leadership.
For the dickheads its not even about god. Its just a platform for power and manipulation. They are like shitty politicians. The David Seymours of Jesus, if you will. They will spin anything for their own purposes, which mostly seems to be financial gain and kudos from other arseholes- always at the expense of those they claim to care about.
But its not everyone and we do need to remember that.
Thanks :)
Yeah, built in power (and money, which is power) is very appealing to these dimwits. Mortlock's instagram is just screaming white privilege. It's utterly fucked.
Thanks for the postcards from Silent Hill at the end there
I was waiting for ol' Pyramid Head to emerge at some point....
Hahaha exactly what i was thinking!
It’s a bit like tithing, but way cheaper 🤣🤗
Fair, right? :P
The whole anti vax thing gets me so effing riled up I can't STAND IT. People nowadays think they're so special and have so much choice. They've done the research and they just personally don't think the vaccine is for them because Bill Gates wants to harvest their organs and the WHO is a cabal based in a tax haven trying to turn us all sterile? Massive eye roll. We take vaccines to protect the vulnerable that either can't have them or that will be severely impacted if they catch the disease. We accept a tiny amount of those that receive the vaccine will experience side effects. Of course if you caught the disease the vaccine was vaccinating you against you'd definitely suffer side effects, some of them deadly or with life long debilitating consequences. I find it deliciously ironic that these preachers use fear to control their congregations with wild stories about conspiracies about being controlled externally by governments 😅 Its all a bit reminiscent of a Steven King novel? In other news, I'm off to get my second Pfizer today! Apparently the second one is the nasty one so thoughts and prayers everyone 🙏😂
Congrats on getting the second one.
A coworker of mine finally got vaxxed (she was the only holdout), and that’s only because the Delta variant scared her so much. The other day she told me that it was “her choice” whether or not to get vaccinated. This was after we found out that someone in our workplace tested positive for COVID.
I bit my tongue and saved my arguing for another day.
So true, you've really got to pick your battles. I had a couple colleagues holding out but once they saw how hard a couple of us were trying to get ours they came around and got vaxxed 😅 I don't think it's a choice at all, more like a social responsibility, like educating children or not murdering other people.
My parents have regularly attended church throughout the pandemic, despite my mother being in a very high-risk category. They're not denialists or antivaxxers--just the opposite in fact. Both were vaxxed as soon as they were able, and they've had a small stock of N95 masks for years "just in case".
They're also very Catholic though. They livestreamed Mass for the first few months, until the Church started offering outdoor services, masks mandatory with hand sanitizer provided at the door. But as summer started, and the infections started to level off, services went back to indoor-only, with masks only "recommended". This being a very conservative part of California (they exist! It's Kevin McCarthy's district, in fact), you can imagine how many people heeded that recommendation. Now my parents are stuck attending indoor services with people who may or may not be vaccinated, but refuse to wear masks either way. Luckily, they still have some N95s.
It's infuriating to watch people preach love and care towards others, but still refuse to take the most basic precautions to protect others. I know for certain that the reason they won't institute a mask mandate is for fear of "offending" their nuttier members.
Sorry to hear this, Joe. Catholics to me seem on the sane end of it all, overall. Which feels weird to say. But yeah, it's sad to hear of this situation devolving into a potentially dangerous situation. Opiate of the masses and all that, huh.
I'd like to pipe up here that Catholics have their own share of leaders and congregation that are very similar to City Impact, like I imagine Amy Coney Barrett's congregation would be. Being such a large organisation, there are a wide range of beliefs about the world, so, for example, while some support Pope Francis' reforms, some oppose them, and some don't feel they go far enough (most probably aren't aware of them though).
Brian Tamaki is obviously against the legislation to Ban Conversion Therapy in NZ, but not just his NZ flock he's sending his message all over the world getting homophobic's everywhere to submit against a ban in little old New Zealand. Along with all the other churches who want to pray away the gay. Last day for submissions is September 8th.
Yeah, much of the Church is pushing hard against banning conversion therapy and it blows. And they have the drive and time to do it.
Make sure you've done a submission - it's very easy and templates are here: https://linktr.ee/Shaneellall
Great photos!
As someone who was raised in a church (Methodist) I find these evangelical happy clappy churches fascinatingly weird & dangerous. Thanks for highlighting their weirdness. I left the church community I was raised in at the age of 16 because of the homophobia that in many ways took over the churches true calling card. I’m happiest out of those confines & living a good & fully vaccinated life. Kia ora
Kudos for getting out at 16. Fuckin a. If you haven't been *part* of that culture, it's very hard to explain to people on the outside.
Somewhat off topic, but I see Peter Williams is leaving Magic Talk. Wonder if he was pushed? Can’t say I’m upset - one fewer covid crank on the airwaves…
Who's to say. He's old so he's probably tired, but also they seem to be making a move to make that station less full of lunacy (Peter Williams was pretty much a climate change denier) or "more woke" as his swarm of idiots would say it. This is a fun (and gross) read: https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/06-09-2021/leah-panapa-just-worked-the-shift-from-hell-on-magic-talk/
Reading this reminded me when I was a studio operator at RNZ in the early 90s & Peter Williams foraged a massive booger out of his nose. Can't recall if he ate it. Probably looked away at that point.
Thanks for this David. I have a sister and her grown children who belong to some church group who have gone completely down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. And my sister-in-law belongs to Destiny Church - enough said. I have nothing to say to them - I just cant even understand how, why, WTAF ?? Helen Jacobi's comment about 'leaving their brains at the door' certainly rings true because they believe without question or critical thinking which exactly how their respective churches want them to keep control. And they can't even see the irony
Sorry you've lost some family to Destiny - it's pretty awful. Hopefully they snap out of it at some point - it can happen - but yeah, it's not worth your mental health to keep engaging. It's sad, but kudos to you.
Wow Helen Jacobi is a lovely, humorous fresh breath of feminist air, what a joy after the inane ramblings of those two other male church “leaders”. More of this sort of thing! Also your photos are divine David. Perhaps you can do a limited print run? Put my name down!
She must sometimes look around the male company in Christian leadership and roll her eyes hard. Very glad she wrote some sane words for this - a reminder that not all Christian leaders are grifters.
thanks so much Sarah, glad to have been able to share some thoughts
I loved it, thanks so much for bringing 21st century thinking to the table with such a measured approach. Totally delightful!