Hi all - just wanted to say that I am so appreciative of all your comments.
I have just been mulling things over, and will hop in when I have a clear head. I have gotten *so* many emails from other former interns who have stuff to say - so have been lost in that and processing it, as well.
I feel there will be more to say about Arise - and it's interesting to see their leader has left a rambling message on Instagram, talking a lot about "doing better" - and yet they still can't be bothered getting back to me or actually addressing anything.
"The most painful thing about leadership I’ve experienced is that todays personal growth and maturity enables you to see yesterday’s immaturity. And the impact that yesterday’s immaturity (a bit dysfunction too I reckon) had in the way you led and on those you lead.
“You don’t know what you don’t know”. It’s a phrase I use a lot. To describe the need for constant growth. The need for humility, without which we are all blind to our faults and flaws. It’s why I read books, listen to podcasts, ask a ton of questions. I am searching for what I don’t know.
I’ve had to find peace in the knowledge that there will never be a moment when I’m a perfect leader. Maybe no one else finds that a tension. But because I truly do love people I need to know that I can leads others, even if that’s potentially imperfectly.
I’ll tell you what I can also do: I can grow. I can learn. I can own my mistakes and apologise if I need to. Just two days ago I did just that to someone I used to lead. I said I’m sorry. And it brought healing I think. To them but also to me. It brought us closer & it helped make me better.
There’s one thing I am so grateful for: I’m a way better leader now that I was even five years ago. By better I mean kinder, more empathetic, secure, more encouraging & for sure a lot more emotionally consistent. There’s nothing like the fire to either destroy you or refine you. I hope I’m choosing the refiners fire. I believe I am.
To every other leader our there: here’s to growth. Here’s to pain. Here’s to keeping our dreams alive & our hearts encouraged.
Much love, John"
**
I am not surprised, but it's still frustrating to see. Accountability seems impossible for these people, who are obsessed with "Kingdom building". More money, more churches, more churn.
Hey David, thank you for this. I’ve sent it to a couple of ex-Penti church friends and I think, like I have, found it to be strangely therapeutic. It brings back so many memories, most of which are pretty dark. My (now) wife and I were DEEP into a Pentecostal church in Dunedin, which isn’t Arise but they operate from an almost identical playbook. My wife “served” as an intern for a good 2 or so years before burning out. I drank the koolaid and did overseas missions, donated a lot of student loan money, and served to the extent that I only had one evening off each week. Yep, ONE evening OFF. It was all consuming and incredibly intense. It’s just odd how when you’re surrounded by people who think and believe the same way, you loose perspective. It all seems to normal - but it’s not. Odd behaviour or requests are quickly justified by it “being God” or “the need to have a servant heart”. Any critical thinking or questioning would immediately leave you feeling guilty as it was a sure sign you were under spiritual attack, Satan was really having a dig at you. True faith filled believers wouldn’t question things, they’d just believe. This thinking compounds to cause an enormous psychological toll on many people in these churches. It inevitably affects them for years to come, I know of many who still carry the scars and pain. Thanks for shining a light on this.
Apr 3, 2022·edited Apr 3, 2022Liked by David Farrier
The one thing that strikes me, sadly, is how the victims of this seem to feel like they should have known better somehow and feel stupid (read: blame themselves) for what happened to them. This is in no way their fault at all and could happen to anyone. When things happen gradually and your whole life is tied up in it and everyone around you is acting that same way it is normalised. It's no different to being in a bad relationship that you don't realise how bad it is until you break up with the person (I know we've ALL been there)and then you can't work out why you didn't see what that person was really like sooner. Well you didn't because you were emotionally involved, it happened over time and by then it was 'normal' for you. I just hope these victims find full recovery and movements like this continue to be exposed for what they really are.
Has it ever occurred to you that Christianity is based on a false premise? A (psychopathic) God told two people who knew nothing about good and evil, not to eat from a certain tree. He knew, because he is omnipotent, that the Devil would come along and suggest they disobey him. This they duly did and could now tell the difference between good and evil - or right and wrong if you prefer. And our all-loving God then banished them from the Garden of Eden for disobeying him. And in due course had his son tortured to death to right the original wrong. But, if Adam and Eve couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong, they couldn't understand why they shouldn't eat the forbidden fruit, any more than a toddler or your pet cat would understand. The whole thing looks like a sadistic set up.
Considering where it all started, is it surprising there are so many Christians with complete cognitive dissonance?
Apr 3, 2022·edited Apr 3, 2022Liked by David Farrier
I remember encountering ARISE over a decade ago when I was in undegrad- they'd give out free ice creams/hot chocolates during o-week, and have a competition with a huge prize (one year a fridge that was full of food, another time it was a scooter), but if you entered you could only get the prize if you attended their service (at the Michael Fowler Center! This was before they built their own facility). More recently, my cousin joined ARISE when she moved to wellington- she didn't know any one in town and was pretty vulnerable. She saw her pastor as her family, but it was a huge red flag to me that she was spending so much time baby sitting her pastor's kids. When my cousin got pregnant to her boyfriend she was kicked out of the church. So much for them considering her family!
Apr 3, 2022·edited Apr 3, 2022Liked by David Farrier
Yes! I was anticipating when you’d get to the connection between MLMs and mega-churches, David. Here it is!
For last few months, I’ve been fascinated with MLMs and their shady business practices. They hold a really interesting place blurring the lines between business and cult - definitely more cult than anything else though. In all seriousness, I really want to write a screenplay based in a dystopian society where almost everyone belongs to an MLM. While I’d love to title it “Attack of the HunBots” I’m afraid this title may be too campy B-rated sci-fi which isn’t quite the vibe I’m going for.
Given my religious background, I’ve also been super fascinated by the similar dynamics between megachurches and MLMs. This is especially so given how many religious folks I know who have been involved in an MLM at least at some point in their life - all women unfortunately since MLMs (and churches for that matter) like to prey on vulnerable women more than anyone else. MLMs are notoriously manipulative and misogynistic entities so the connection between them and megachurches is a given.
I’d be super curious to hear other people’s take on this connection and perhaps if this is something you’ll be investigating further down the line, David?
Ps. I also watched the Vow and agree - it’s a great documentary series. Highly recommend. The whole NXIVM case is fascinating but also sad - sad how manipulative and abusive some people can be and how others just go along with it seemingly without a second thought.
Apr 3, 2022·edited Apr 3, 2022Liked by David Farrier
Ugh. My 9 year old has asked to go to Arise because her friend goes there - apparently they have water fights and lollies and don't talk about boring things like we do at our church, and it's so much fun! My kid went on a trip to their Petone centre with school to see a show. The actual performance wasn't anything to do with the church, but I want to whether they paid to use the venue and who funded that. Apparently the auditorium was flash, lots of equipment to make it a fun performance. They also work within low decile schools providing a programme "that encourages and uplifts the kid’s spirits while feeding them a healthy, cooked breakfast." I bet that's so much fun too. Such a fun place. Wonder how many of the kids need to get breakfast at school because their parents are paying tithes?
I don't think I ever went to Arise (who knows, I attended conferences at so many terrible places) but the thing is . . . all of this is familiar. This is the pattern of not just megachurches, but most of the smaller Pentecostal churches too. The volunteers who hear the "call" to serve the church - my father was one for years, he would be up at the crack of dawn to set up our church and pack it down. The small groups, and the pressure on small group leaders to shoulder the emotional burden of around 10 different people's struggles. The super-expensive conferences and kids programmes that people are pressured to use money they really need to use for other things to attend. Honestly, some of the stories I could tell - and I got off pretty lightly.
The recruitment was always friendly and glitzy, but the life was marked by drudgery, by tithes that took more than you could really afford, by shame and gaslighting and public humiliation. I carry deep scars from it all, and I am definitely not even in a minority. Pentecostal churches are damaging in so many ways.
There are so many other churches and programmes that you could deep-dive into and find horror. King's Kids. The Alpha programme (which may have been rebranded). The Baptist church network. And those are just the ones off the top of my head, that I was involved in (and can remember the names of). This rabbit hole is actually a true warren, branching off almost endlessly.
Thank you for bringing light to these dark places.
If anyone reading this attended Arise as a teenager, I would be interested to hear if there was anything that adults outside the church did that helped you to avoid or find a pathway out of the exploitative aspects of these churches. I work with teenagers with mental health difficulties, and some of them have started going to Arise. While I can't say anything against them going, I try to support young people to identify a range of sources of connection and support, and not become completely dependant on one group... as well as giving them a chance to explore their own values if their experiences at church seem to be causing cognitive dissonance.
I never really went to Arise Church but around 15 years ago I attended Elevate in Wellington, their youth off-shoot they ran on Friday nights. And reading all this on unpaid labour puts things into a new perspective, especially now that I’m a union delegate in my workplace. I remember feeling icky when they ran those donation pledges asking God to put a number in your head and then pressuring to follow through on it.
Arise were in the media last year for playing a big role in mobilising people to submit on the Conversion Practices Prohibition Bill. After facing criticism for this they updated their advice to make it clear that they were opposed to the nasty kind of coercive "practices that were unfortunately used in the past by some churches and other groups." Nothing to see here. Their updated statement made it very clear that their position was driven by transphobia.
Ew. I want a shower after reading this post and all the comments. Just gross how they hook people in and use their own vulnerability against them.
In many ways I feel priveledged that my parents brought me up with a level of suspicion about religion, and Christianity especially. I think this was because some of my father's experiences and breaking away from the church in his 20s (will need to ask him more about this sometime, he's never really talked about it). I have to remind myself not to judge others' religious beliefs and ensure they know my atheism doesn't mean I don't respect them.
Went past a protest about abortion yesterday, which prompted an awkward conversation with my young kid wondering what they were doing. People holding hands and praying earnestly that others would see the light, I guess, and who cares about how those people's lives are screwed up or about what they might have been through...
The shutting down of critical thought and twisting of church-goers' compassion is really distressing to me. I hope those struggling to get out have some support outside the church and I know your work is doing good in the world David - thank you
Hi all - just wanted to say that I am so appreciative of all your comments.
I have just been mulling things over, and will hop in when I have a clear head. I have gotten *so* many emails from other former interns who have stuff to say - so have been lost in that and processing it, as well.
I feel there will be more to say about Arise - and it's interesting to see their leader has left a rambling message on Instagram, talking a lot about "doing better" - and yet they still can't be bothered getting back to me or actually addressing anything.
In other words... it's a Hillsong response:
John Cameron's post: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cb6-lv6v303/
"The most painful thing about leadership I’ve experienced is that todays personal growth and maturity enables you to see yesterday’s immaturity. And the impact that yesterday’s immaturity (a bit dysfunction too I reckon) had in the way you led and on those you lead.
“You don’t know what you don’t know”. It’s a phrase I use a lot. To describe the need for constant growth. The need for humility, without which we are all blind to our faults and flaws. It’s why I read books, listen to podcasts, ask a ton of questions. I am searching for what I don’t know.
I’ve had to find peace in the knowledge that there will never be a moment when I’m a perfect leader. Maybe no one else finds that a tension. But because I truly do love people I need to know that I can leads others, even if that’s potentially imperfectly.
I’ll tell you what I can also do: I can grow. I can learn. I can own my mistakes and apologise if I need to. Just two days ago I did just that to someone I used to lead. I said I’m sorry. And it brought healing I think. To them but also to me. It brought us closer & it helped make me better.
There’s one thing I am so grateful for: I’m a way better leader now that I was even five years ago. By better I mean kinder, more empathetic, secure, more encouraging & for sure a lot more emotionally consistent. There’s nothing like the fire to either destroy you or refine you. I hope I’m choosing the refiners fire. I believe I am.
To every other leader our there: here’s to growth. Here’s to pain. Here’s to keeping our dreams alive & our hearts encouraged.
Much love, John"
**
I am not surprised, but it's still frustrating to see. Accountability seems impossible for these people, who are obsessed with "Kingdom building". More money, more churches, more churn.
It's.... fucking insane.
David
Hey David, thank you for this. I’ve sent it to a couple of ex-Penti church friends and I think, like I have, found it to be strangely therapeutic. It brings back so many memories, most of which are pretty dark. My (now) wife and I were DEEP into a Pentecostal church in Dunedin, which isn’t Arise but they operate from an almost identical playbook. My wife “served” as an intern for a good 2 or so years before burning out. I drank the koolaid and did overseas missions, donated a lot of student loan money, and served to the extent that I only had one evening off each week. Yep, ONE evening OFF. It was all consuming and incredibly intense. It’s just odd how when you’re surrounded by people who think and believe the same way, you loose perspective. It all seems to normal - but it’s not. Odd behaviour or requests are quickly justified by it “being God” or “the need to have a servant heart”. Any critical thinking or questioning would immediately leave you feeling guilty as it was a sure sign you were under spiritual attack, Satan was really having a dig at you. True faith filled believers wouldn’t question things, they’d just believe. This thinking compounds to cause an enormous psychological toll on many people in these churches. It inevitably affects them for years to come, I know of many who still carry the scars and pain. Thanks for shining a light on this.
The one thing that strikes me, sadly, is how the victims of this seem to feel like they should have known better somehow and feel stupid (read: blame themselves) for what happened to them. This is in no way their fault at all and could happen to anyone. When things happen gradually and your whole life is tied up in it and everyone around you is acting that same way it is normalised. It's no different to being in a bad relationship that you don't realise how bad it is until you break up with the person (I know we've ALL been there)and then you can't work out why you didn't see what that person was really like sooner. Well you didn't because you were emotionally involved, it happened over time and by then it was 'normal' for you. I just hope these victims find full recovery and movements like this continue to be exposed for what they really are.
Has it ever occurred to you that Christianity is based on a false premise? A (psychopathic) God told two people who knew nothing about good and evil, not to eat from a certain tree. He knew, because he is omnipotent, that the Devil would come along and suggest they disobey him. This they duly did and could now tell the difference between good and evil - or right and wrong if you prefer. And our all-loving God then banished them from the Garden of Eden for disobeying him. And in due course had his son tortured to death to right the original wrong. But, if Adam and Eve couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong, they couldn't understand why they shouldn't eat the forbidden fruit, any more than a toddler or your pet cat would understand. The whole thing looks like a sadistic set up.
Considering where it all started, is it surprising there are so many Christians with complete cognitive dissonance?
I remember encountering ARISE over a decade ago when I was in undegrad- they'd give out free ice creams/hot chocolates during o-week, and have a competition with a huge prize (one year a fridge that was full of food, another time it was a scooter), but if you entered you could only get the prize if you attended their service (at the Michael Fowler Center! This was before they built their own facility). More recently, my cousin joined ARISE when she moved to wellington- she didn't know any one in town and was pretty vulnerable. She saw her pastor as her family, but it was a huge red flag to me that she was spending so much time baby sitting her pastor's kids. When my cousin got pregnant to her boyfriend she was kicked out of the church. So much for them considering her family!
Yes! I was anticipating when you’d get to the connection between MLMs and mega-churches, David. Here it is!
For last few months, I’ve been fascinated with MLMs and their shady business practices. They hold a really interesting place blurring the lines between business and cult - definitely more cult than anything else though. In all seriousness, I really want to write a screenplay based in a dystopian society where almost everyone belongs to an MLM. While I’d love to title it “Attack of the HunBots” I’m afraid this title may be too campy B-rated sci-fi which isn’t quite the vibe I’m going for.
Given my religious background, I’ve also been super fascinated by the similar dynamics between megachurches and MLMs. This is especially so given how many religious folks I know who have been involved in an MLM at least at some point in their life - all women unfortunately since MLMs (and churches for that matter) like to prey on vulnerable women more than anyone else. MLMs are notoriously manipulative and misogynistic entities so the connection between them and megachurches is a given.
I’d be super curious to hear other people’s take on this connection and perhaps if this is something you’ll be investigating further down the line, David?
Ps. I also watched the Vow and agree - it’s a great documentary series. Highly recommend. The whole NXIVM case is fascinating but also sad - sad how manipulative and abusive some people can be and how others just go along with it seemingly without a second thought.
Ugh. My 9 year old has asked to go to Arise because her friend goes there - apparently they have water fights and lollies and don't talk about boring things like we do at our church, and it's so much fun! My kid went on a trip to their Petone centre with school to see a show. The actual performance wasn't anything to do with the church, but I want to whether they paid to use the venue and who funded that. Apparently the auditorium was flash, lots of equipment to make it a fun performance. They also work within low decile schools providing a programme "that encourages and uplifts the kid’s spirits while feeding them a healthy, cooked breakfast." I bet that's so much fun too. Such a fun place. Wonder how many of the kids need to get breakfast at school because their parents are paying tithes?
Brilliant, so pleased my subscription goes towards this kind of work. These parasitic pastors make me sick.
I don't think I ever went to Arise (who knows, I attended conferences at so many terrible places) but the thing is . . . all of this is familiar. This is the pattern of not just megachurches, but most of the smaller Pentecostal churches too. The volunteers who hear the "call" to serve the church - my father was one for years, he would be up at the crack of dawn to set up our church and pack it down. The small groups, and the pressure on small group leaders to shoulder the emotional burden of around 10 different people's struggles. The super-expensive conferences and kids programmes that people are pressured to use money they really need to use for other things to attend. Honestly, some of the stories I could tell - and I got off pretty lightly.
The recruitment was always friendly and glitzy, but the life was marked by drudgery, by tithes that took more than you could really afford, by shame and gaslighting and public humiliation. I carry deep scars from it all, and I am definitely not even in a minority. Pentecostal churches are damaging in so many ways.
There are so many other churches and programmes that you could deep-dive into and find horror. King's Kids. The Alpha programme (which may have been rebranded). The Baptist church network. And those are just the ones off the top of my head, that I was involved in (and can remember the names of). This rabbit hole is actually a true warren, branching off almost endlessly.
Thank you for bringing light to these dark places.
If anyone reading this attended Arise as a teenager, I would be interested to hear if there was anything that adults outside the church did that helped you to avoid or find a pathway out of the exploitative aspects of these churches. I work with teenagers with mental health difficulties, and some of them have started going to Arise. While I can't say anything against them going, I try to support young people to identify a range of sources of connection and support, and not become completely dependant on one group... as well as giving them a chance to explore their own values if their experiences at church seem to be causing cognitive dissonance.
I never really went to Arise Church but around 15 years ago I attended Elevate in Wellington, their youth off-shoot they ran on Friday nights. And reading all this on unpaid labour puts things into a new perspective, especially now that I’m a union delegate in my workplace. I remember feeling icky when they ran those donation pledges asking God to put a number in your head and then pressuring to follow through on it.
Arise were in the media last year for playing a big role in mobilising people to submit on the Conversion Practices Prohibition Bill. After facing criticism for this they updated their advice to make it clear that they were opposed to the nasty kind of coercive "practices that were unfortunately used in the past by some churches and other groups." Nothing to see here. Their updated statement made it very clear that their position was driven by transphobia.
Jesus would so approve of the greed that these church leaders have. It’s exactly what he preached.
/sarcasm.
Tempting to write "They are exploiting you" in chalk on the footpath around there. What else?
The irony is that scamming money and free labour out of their congregation is the most un-christian thing ever. Jesus was a socialist after all...
Ew. I want a shower after reading this post and all the comments. Just gross how they hook people in and use their own vulnerability against them.
In many ways I feel priveledged that my parents brought me up with a level of suspicion about religion, and Christianity especially. I think this was because some of my father's experiences and breaking away from the church in his 20s (will need to ask him more about this sometime, he's never really talked about it). I have to remind myself not to judge others' religious beliefs and ensure they know my atheism doesn't mean I don't respect them.
Went past a protest about abortion yesterday, which prompted an awkward conversation with my young kid wondering what they were doing. People holding hands and praying earnestly that others would see the light, I guess, and who cares about how those people's lives are screwed up or about what they might have been through...
The shutting down of critical thought and twisting of church-goers' compassion is really distressing to me. I hope those struggling to get out have some support outside the church and I know your work is doing good in the world David - thank you