Thanks for the response to this piece - as usual, good and passionate discussion is taking place. I just wanted to highlight this comment from one reader, which is encouraging:
"I actually work in OIAs at MBIE (in a different area) and I can assure you that the fear of this org (or any other) won't be playing a part in this decision. There's strong grounds to withhold, and I suspect/hope that the consultation is being done in this way to cut off any future complaints to the OMB by Arise."
There's a strong argument to withhold in full under section 9(2)(ba)(ii) - essentially information is subject to the obligation of confidence and it's in the public interest that it continues to be provided. If people don't feel their engagement with the inspectorate will be kept confidential then they're less likely to participate in the process (and not just the Arise witnesses but others who see how the information is released). Crazy that MBIE aren't proposing to use that ground.
'- where the making available of the information would be likely to prejudice the supply of similar information, or information from the same source, and it is in the public interest that such information should continue to be supplied.'
Some people would not have provided the level of information they did, and would not do so again, and it is in the public interest that they did/might again.
This seems to have been handled without the sensitivity it deserves.
Surely people's safety in coming forward is paramount. As you pointed out, if people knew their personal trauma was to be made public they'd never have come forward. Of all the yuck things I've read on the internet lately, this one has me riled. Yet again a church doing bad things is protected by the government to continue to do bad things.
MBIE may just be going through their motions, with the full intent of using that section. Or at least I like to think so.
Arise will be shitting bricks, as if an investigation into interns finds that they were being treated as staff and are owed back-pay - that will end Arise.
Like - they can't afford all that.
I am keeping in touch with victims to see how it progresses.
How on earth could releasing this information to Arise be in the public interest? I hope the MBIE holds the ground, but they’ll likely fold in fear of the church and its power.
I don't think that's likely. I actually work in OIAs at MBIE (in a different area) and I can assure you that the fear of this org (or any other) won't be playing a part in this decision. There's strong grounds to withhold, and I suspect/hope that the consultation is being done in this way to cut off any future complaints to the OMB by Arise.
That’s good to hear. I can be a bit cynical about power structures. In my time in government, I’ve never met anyone who actively chooses to defer to powerful private interests, but it does happen. Forgive me if I’ve lost faith in the US government 😉
This is happening in New Zealand. We're a lot more secular and unimpressed with religious orgs and MBIE is a massive govt department (for us) that fears nothing (not always a good thing).
Surely if MBIE is prepared to redact peoples name and address to prevent their identification, then it also needs to look at redacting any of the evidence given that would also lead to identification. This would be the entire story, likely.
Surely the words "where appropriate" have to do some heavy lifting here. If it's not appropriate for the Arise lawyers to access information that would identify witnesses then they shouldn't get it.
Yes. They will be assessing all information. The Act requires agencies to consider all the info and there are no blanket withholding grounds. So it all needs to be assessed. My feeling is that most of the info would be withheld for a number of reasons, but the process needs to be robust as Arise are likely to complaint to the Ombudsman who will review. Names and addresses are obvious, for the rest having the people concerned oppose release and express that really helps if there are any questions later.
Reading between the lines here, MBIE is begging the complainants to raise objections in order to strengthen a case against providing this information to Arise.
Unfortunately, I think the kicker is that every respondent was informed upfront that the information may be released, so MBIE has covered itself and is required to release information, with redactions. Potentially, the same situation is going to arise after the conclusion of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historic Abuse in Care (etc) where those affected gave statements.
Doesn't make it any less horrific, but unfortunately this experience will have a chilling effect on any future statements made in similar circumstances.
I think if the government agencies who were the subject of Royal Commission of Inquiry into abuse in State Care ever tried to do what Arise is attempting, they would be met with public outrage, and called out for asserting - an abuse of power.
I think there needs to be more publicity about what Arise are doing - thank you, David.
There definitely needs to be a petition. I'm currently drafting an email to Parliament.
I have just read Young New Zealander of the year, 2023 Shaneel Lal's autobiography One Of Them.
Mega churches feature of course - Paul Cameron of Arise Church leads the objection to the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill and Lal documents every last attempt by Arise and churches like theirs "Seventeen churches sign a letter written by Tak Bhana of Church Unlimited and send it out to their members encouraging them to make submissions to the select committee" to hold onto the power that they exert over some of their most vulnerable congregation - the legal right to pray (and God only knows what else) the gay away.
Reading Lal's book I am launched back into the moment that I gave my oral submission to the Bill via ZOOM.
Simeon Brown was on staff that day. I sat waiting in a ZOOM queue listening to several concerned god fearing Christians give their submissions. It was sad and unsettling to hear their dystopian concerns. When it was my turn to speak Simeon Brown turned off his monitor. I was unsure if he could still hear me.
I was left with the administrator who invited me to give my submission.
I was momentarily stunned. I wanted to say " Hey, Simeon,! I've got something I'd like you to hear" but I didn't. Instead I stumbled over my first few words trying to find composure. I was annoyed at Simeon Brown but also at myself for allowing him to affect me. I'm a grown woman. A mother of two articulate gender non conforming adult children, I was surprised that he could affect me in this way.
But of course he can. He's sitting in a seat of power, what he believes could affect my life, our lives - I know he's against my children. I know he's against my parenting.
I found my composure, I gave my submission, but I came away with a big fat reminded that Simeon Brown and others like him can hold seats of power and they CAN, in the name of their "faith" remain against and assert their power against entire sectors of society.
Imagine if alt-right groups started seeking impact statements from the attack on the Christchurch Mosque.
I think the key issue her is that Arise are ATTEMPTING to do something.
I'm up for blocking their path in any way that I / we can.
They were informed that it may be released if the law required it. MBIE is not required to release just because it said that was a possibility. The law (the OIA) requires it be released unless there is a good reason not to and there are reasons in that Act that apply.
My first reaction was shock when I read this, David, and then I re-read it and I realised that I am NOT shocked - this is more of the same, typical Arise behaviour.
They have been consistent and demonstrated the same behaviours all the way along. At all times they are about arse-covering, and protecting their own, and reinforcing the pedestals they place their public-facing leaders upon. They are not, and have never been, living their Christian values. They prey upon the weak instead of protecting them. They are shills who are pursuing riches (cash money and possessions) on Earth and don't give a fuck about anyone who gets hurt in the pursuit of that.
To any victims out there who reported what happened to them in any way, I am in awe of your courage for speaking out. You did not deserve your mistreatment at the hands of Arise church and you do not deserve any ongoing harm that you may experience from Arise and their lawyers. I hope you are getting the support and help you need.
Keep up the good work, David, you are making a real difference with this type of reporting and this is why I am a Webworm.
This is what happens when you come between a megachurch and their cash flow. They will use the statements as proof of being victimized. If they get the names, they will run those folks name through the mud to make themselves look clean. It's time we started taxing these places and making them more accountable for their actions.
And if they really want to help people, they could start by admitting blame.
"I recognise that you may be required to release some of my statement, however I also have real concerns for my wellbeing if I were to be identified. If you believe you have no grounds to withhold my entire statement could you please send me your proposed release showing what you intend to redact so that I can either reassure myself that my privacy has been preserved and that I will be safe, or tell you how your proposed release will identify me.
This process is causing me significant stress. Could you please respond to me today and confirm that you will be able to either withhold my entire statement or provide me your proposed release in advance."
With an inside perspective, they won't be able to respond on the day with the decision on the redactions. It's better to ask for a specific contact person (even just a name and team email) that you can talk to about your info. Talk to that person as if they are on your side and need you to provide info to back up their argument for withholding with managers and such (as that is likely the case).
Cameron's self-serving and misguided "tweets" are super annoying from a Christian point of view. He's quoting or paraphrasing scripture around the idea that people will be persecuted for their belief in God/Jesus, which is a legit concern and situation around the world, but the way he treats and has treated people is NOT about faith or following - it's about bad human behaviour! (to put it mildly). Abusive, self-centered, narcissistic, careless, cruel, exploitative human behaviour. The Bible doesn't say "yeah, people may come at you for being horrific but don't worry, God loves you".
I resent his victim mentality so much when there are genuinely good-hearted and selfless Christians (and everyone!) out there trying to live in compassion and kindness for others.
My genuine sympathy, also, to those now fearful that their brave and re-traumatising testimony may put them in harm's way 🙏🧡
Nothing like a bit of taking things out of context, eh. Thanks for being here Sarah. I know you're one of the good ones.
I sometimes wonder if places like Arise understand how many people they are driving directly AWAY from any idea of "God". I'd argue the church has sent more people to their version of hell, than any heaven!
Thanks, David. I’m very grateful for your mahi in this space. I wouldn’t have appreciated how bad things were if it wasn’t for your reporting... #cult-like
This is why many people do not want to interact with state organs: trust. We simply cannot trust the State not to do something so daft that it leaves people worried for their safety.
In my mind there is a vast difference between OIAing a minister or ministry regarding policies or actions - and obtaining information from witnesses.
The next time an investigative body seeks statements from witnesses, they may think twice before assisting with investigations. Who wouldn't, after reading this?
This comment from a Webworm reader IS encouraging:
"I actually work in OIAs at MBIE (in a different area) and I can assure you that the fear of this org (or any other) won't be playing a part in this decision. There's strong grounds to withhold, and I suspect/hope that the consultation is being done in this way to cut off any future complaints to the OMB by Arise."
Can't guarantee that's the case, but I hope it is.
The disciple received the Lords love deep inside him. He spreadeth his hands and giveth the love to his flock, so they can inhale the righteousness and it be added unpon thee. Verily, ye shall receive.
My heart breaks for these victims. What Arise is doing is sending a very clear message that if you speak up, they will come after you. They want their victims to stay silent so they can continue to wield their power in abusive and crushing ways. They want silence, which is why I’m glad you’re speaking up for the victims, David. Arise needs to be held accountable.
Arise does need to be held accountable. They will be shitting themselves about this MBIE investigation, because if interns are found to be staff - then the backpay is gonna break them. Like, a church-ender.
I'm not even one of their victims, and my stomach dropped reading that. It seems so contradictory to me - I'm guessing many victims, if they really truly understood their testimony had a decent chance of becoming public, wouldn't want to provide testimony of any kind because of the high possibility of being re-victimized by their tormentor. And the cycle of abuse would continue.
Exactly how I felt. My stomach twisted while reading this.
How can abusive workplaces be investigated if lawyers for those places can access complaints and then bully those people. The checks and balances are not very balanced at the moment.
While it is infuriating you need to keep talking about Arise, it is always a timely reminder that if sunlight is the best disinfectant, Webworm is totally worth supporting to keep the rays illuminating their ongoing un-Christian behaviours. Let us hope the sunlight illuminates an ethical/empathetical path for MBIE to respond in a way that does NOT re-traumatise brave people who spoke up. While they might have been told information MIGHT be shared in the future, I can't see ARISE lawyers asking for their testimony without an actual legal proceeding underway, would be an anticipated event when deciding to go ahead.
On an unrelated topic, except for talking about the lowest of the low in terms of the way they treat/exploit people & misuse the legal system, I found "Tickled" on Beamafilms (which you can access in Aotearoa-New Zealand through your library membership) and while it is really disturbing (esp as someone who is ticklish, but I'm not a sexy young male so I'm safe ...) I hope that the doco might have saved some people from being sucked in, or at least going in with their eyes open as to what happen. Strangely, not as disturbing as Mister Organ, but then I guess that one is closer to home for me?
I think the scale of Tickled was bigger - a sort of weird adventure - but Mister Organ was definitely more disturbing. That was my experience living it, anyway. Never met anyone like him. Never want to again (but I will, no doubt!)
Thank you for the reminder about Beamafilm and for the news that Tickled is there. Such a great resource with a wide range of films available. I can’t believe I forgot to look there when I went on a Tickled search a few weeks ago.
I often forget to check it out, but there are often good films or TV series well worth watching or even re-watching ... don't know if I'll rewatch Tickled anytime soon - important doco but helluva creepy people!
Arise doing this is straight out of the abusive cult handbook.
The purpose of this kind of legal action and any defamation lawsuits regarding the Cameron’s or Arise (and I wonder who these lawyers are acting for - possibly both) is not necessarily to win but more often to harass complainants and discourage anyone else from ever coming forward.
Evangelical megachurch’s often justify this action as necessary to ‘save souls’ since maligning the church imperils that ‘mission’ in their spiritual war with ‘Satanic forces’ like they are claiming David, Hayden and others to be.
Yes I think even if they lose they have succeeded in dragging things out, intimidating people and just raising the general level of bad shit in the world
I actually feel physically ill reading this. I'm so sorry for the victims who are being retraumatised by this church. They're so nasty! Awful nasty yucky people with no moral compass. Ugh.
Thanks for the response to this piece - as usual, good and passionate discussion is taking place. I just wanted to highlight this comment from one reader, which is encouraging:
"I actually work in OIAs at MBIE (in a different area) and I can assure you that the fear of this org (or any other) won't be playing a part in this decision. There's strong grounds to withhold, and I suspect/hope that the consultation is being done in this way to cut off any future complaints to the OMB by Arise."
Thank you for highlighting this.
There's a strong argument to withhold in full under section 9(2)(ba)(ii) - essentially information is subject to the obligation of confidence and it's in the public interest that it continues to be provided. If people don't feel their engagement with the inspectorate will be kept confidential then they're less likely to participate in the process (and not just the Arise witnesses but others who see how the information is released). Crazy that MBIE aren't proposing to use that ground.
Agree and came here to say the same thing.
'- where the making available of the information would be likely to prejudice the supply of similar information, or information from the same source, and it is in the public interest that such information should continue to be supplied.'
Some people would not have provided the level of information they did, and would not do so again, and it is in the public interest that they did/might again.
This seems to have been handled without the sensitivity it deserves.
Surely people's safety in coming forward is paramount. As you pointed out, if people knew their personal trauma was to be made public they'd never have come forward. Of all the yuck things I've read on the internet lately, this one has me riled. Yet again a church doing bad things is protected by the government to continue to do bad things.
MBIE may just be going through their motions, with the full intent of using that section. Or at least I like to think so.
Arise will be shitting bricks, as if an investigation into interns finds that they were being treated as staff and are owed back-pay - that will end Arise.
Like - they can't afford all that.
I am keeping in touch with victims to see how it progresses.
How on earth could releasing this information to Arise be in the public interest? I hope the MBIE holds the ground, but they’ll likely fold in fear of the church and its power.
I don't think that's likely. I actually work in OIAs at MBIE (in a different area) and I can assure you that the fear of this org (or any other) won't be playing a part in this decision. There's strong grounds to withhold, and I suspect/hope that the consultation is being done in this way to cut off any future complaints to the OMB by Arise.
Thanks for this.
That’s good to hear. I can be a bit cynical about power structures. In my time in government, I’ve never met anyone who actively chooses to defer to powerful private interests, but it does happen. Forgive me if I’ve lost faith in the US government 😉
This is happening in New Zealand. We're a lot more secular and unimpressed with religious orgs and MBIE is a massive govt department (for us) that fears nothing (not always a good thing).
Surely if MBIE is prepared to redact peoples name and address to prevent their identification, then it also needs to look at redacting any of the evidence given that would also lead to identification. This would be the entire story, likely.
Surely the words "where appropriate" have to do some heavy lifting here. If it's not appropriate for the Arise lawyers to access information that would identify witnesses then they shouldn't get it.
Yes. They will be assessing all information. The Act requires agencies to consider all the info and there are no blanket withholding grounds. So it all needs to be assessed. My feeling is that most of the info would be withheld for a number of reasons, but the process needs to be robust as Arise are likely to complaint to the Ombudsman who will review. Names and addresses are obvious, for the rest having the people concerned oppose release and express that really helps if there are any questions later.
Reading between the lines here, MBIE is begging the complainants to raise objections in order to strengthen a case against providing this information to Arise.
Yeah when Arise complains that they didn't get the info, MBIE needs to show it consulted and considered the harms. That's what this is.
Unfortunately, I think the kicker is that every respondent was informed upfront that the information may be released, so MBIE has covered itself and is required to release information, with redactions. Potentially, the same situation is going to arise after the conclusion of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historic Abuse in Care (etc) where those affected gave statements.
Doesn't make it any less horrific, but unfortunately this experience will have a chilling effect on any future statements made in similar circumstances.
I think if the government agencies who were the subject of Royal Commission of Inquiry into abuse in State Care ever tried to do what Arise is attempting, they would be met with public outrage, and called out for asserting - an abuse of power.
I think there needs to be more publicity about what Arise are doing - thank you, David.
There definitely needs to be a petition. I'm currently drafting an email to Parliament.
I have just read Young New Zealander of the year, 2023 Shaneel Lal's autobiography One Of Them.
Mega churches feature of course - Paul Cameron of Arise Church leads the objection to the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill and Lal documents every last attempt by Arise and churches like theirs "Seventeen churches sign a letter written by Tak Bhana of Church Unlimited and send it out to their members encouraging them to make submissions to the select committee" to hold onto the power that they exert over some of their most vulnerable congregation - the legal right to pray (and God only knows what else) the gay away.
Reading Lal's book I am launched back into the moment that I gave my oral submission to the Bill via ZOOM.
Simeon Brown was on staff that day. I sat waiting in a ZOOM queue listening to several concerned god fearing Christians give their submissions. It was sad and unsettling to hear their dystopian concerns. When it was my turn to speak Simeon Brown turned off his monitor. I was unsure if he could still hear me.
I was left with the administrator who invited me to give my submission.
I was momentarily stunned. I wanted to say " Hey, Simeon,! I've got something I'd like you to hear" but I didn't. Instead I stumbled over my first few words trying to find composure. I was annoyed at Simeon Brown but also at myself for allowing him to affect me. I'm a grown woman. A mother of two articulate gender non conforming adult children, I was surprised that he could affect me in this way.
But of course he can. He's sitting in a seat of power, what he believes could affect my life, our lives - I know he's against my children. I know he's against my parenting.
I found my composure, I gave my submission, but I came away with a big fat reminded that Simeon Brown and others like him can hold seats of power and they CAN, in the name of their "faith" remain against and assert their power against entire sectors of society.
Imagine if alt-right groups started seeking impact statements from the attack on the Christchurch Mosque.
I think the key issue her is that Arise are ATTEMPTING to do something.
I'm up for blocking their path in any way that I / we can.
Papango has a positive take on MBIE's approach below. Fingers crossed.
They were informed that it may be released if the law required it. MBIE is not required to release just because it said that was a possibility. The law (the OIA) requires it be released unless there is a good reason not to and there are reasons in that Act that apply.
And on today's episode of Arise Nonsense....
This is vicious and, just like everything else they have ever done, morally reprehensible.
Thank you for continuing to keep the spotlight on them so the world can see them for the cretins they are.
My first reaction was shock when I read this, David, and then I re-read it and I realised that I am NOT shocked - this is more of the same, typical Arise behaviour.
They have been consistent and demonstrated the same behaviours all the way along. At all times they are about arse-covering, and protecting their own, and reinforcing the pedestals they place their public-facing leaders upon. They are not, and have never been, living their Christian values. They prey upon the weak instead of protecting them. They are shills who are pursuing riches (cash money and possessions) on Earth and don't give a fuck about anyone who gets hurt in the pursuit of that.
To any victims out there who reported what happened to them in any way, I am in awe of your courage for speaking out. You did not deserve your mistreatment at the hands of Arise church and you do not deserve any ongoing harm that you may experience from Arise and their lawyers. I hope you are getting the support and help you need.
Keep up the good work, David, you are making a real difference with this type of reporting and this is why I am a Webworm.
This is what happens when you come between a megachurch and their cash flow. They will use the statements as proof of being victimized. If they get the names, they will run those folks name through the mud to make themselves look clean. It's time we started taxing these places and making them more accountable for their actions.
And if they really want to help people, they could start by admitting blame.
I think one could try this:
"I recognise that you may be required to release some of my statement, however I also have real concerns for my wellbeing if I were to be identified. If you believe you have no grounds to withhold my entire statement could you please send me your proposed release showing what you intend to redact so that I can either reassure myself that my privacy has been preserved and that I will be safe, or tell you how your proposed release will identify me.
This process is causing me significant stress. Could you please respond to me today and confirm that you will be able to either withhold my entire statement or provide me your proposed release in advance."
With an inside perspective, they won't be able to respond on the day with the decision on the redactions. It's better to ask for a specific contact person (even just a name and team email) that you can talk to about your info. Talk to that person as if they are on your side and need you to provide info to back up their argument for withholding with managers and such (as that is likely the case).
They should be able to reply within one day with reassurance that it won’t go out without the individual having a chance to check the redactions.
👍 Excellent advice for an appalling situation 😠
Cameron's self-serving and misguided "tweets" are super annoying from a Christian point of view. He's quoting or paraphrasing scripture around the idea that people will be persecuted for their belief in God/Jesus, which is a legit concern and situation around the world, but the way he treats and has treated people is NOT about faith or following - it's about bad human behaviour! (to put it mildly). Abusive, self-centered, narcissistic, careless, cruel, exploitative human behaviour. The Bible doesn't say "yeah, people may come at you for being horrific but don't worry, God loves you".
I resent his victim mentality so much when there are genuinely good-hearted and selfless Christians (and everyone!) out there trying to live in compassion and kindness for others.
My genuine sympathy, also, to those now fearful that their brave and re-traumatising testimony may put them in harm's way 🙏🧡
Nothing like a bit of taking things out of context, eh. Thanks for being here Sarah. I know you're one of the good ones.
I sometimes wonder if places like Arise understand how many people they are driving directly AWAY from any idea of "God". I'd argue the church has sent more people to their version of hell, than any heaven!
Thanks David 🥰
Oh, this is reprehensible of Arise leadership. And that is not a strong enough word. So very, very sorry to hear this.
My thoughts are especially with those brave enough to go forward to the Labour inspectorate with their experiences.
Former Arse staffer and intern here, and I’m absolutely disgusted.
Thanks for being here, Stevie. You know better than I do about how this place rolled. And continues to roll, clearly.
Thanks, David. I’m very grateful for your mahi in this space. I wouldn’t have appreciated how bad things were if it wasn’t for your reporting... #cult-like
Typo or not,but what a perfect name for this vile organisation 😂
This is so good.
Like, what are they actually trying to achieve? Was the Pathfinding report not sufficient? (😵💫)
“Trauma machine” is right. How awful for those brave folk who went on record.
This is why many people do not want to interact with state organs: trust. We simply cannot trust the State not to do something so daft that it leaves people worried for their safety.
In my mind there is a vast difference between OIAing a minister or ministry regarding policies or actions - and obtaining information from witnesses.
The next time an investigative body seeks statements from witnesses, they may think twice before assisting with investigations. Who wouldn't, after reading this?
This comment from a Webworm reader IS encouraging:
"I actually work in OIAs at MBIE (in a different area) and I can assure you that the fear of this org (or any other) won't be playing a part in this decision. There's strong grounds to withhold, and I suspect/hope that the consultation is being done in this way to cut off any future complaints to the OMB by Arise."
Can't guarantee that's the case, but I hope it is.
Let's hope, David!👍
It's a long running story. I feel compelled to inform anyone new to it about one element in particular.
Brent Cameron, of Arise church leadership, would fart on his hands and put it in people's faces.
I might have to get one of those airplanes with the message strip out the back.
I'm cry laughing over here!
I can always trust you to bring the truth about the farts.
The disciple received the Lords love deep inside him. He spreadeth his hands and giveth the love to his flock, so they can inhale the righteousness and it be added unpon thee. Verily, ye shall receive.
John Cameron, probably 🤮
Shame the bible didn’t specify whether that was acceptable behaviour
Came to the comments for this. You never disappoint!
My heart breaks for these victims. What Arise is doing is sending a very clear message that if you speak up, they will come after you. They want their victims to stay silent so they can continue to wield their power in abusive and crushing ways. They want silence, which is why I’m glad you’re speaking up for the victims, David. Arise needs to be held accountable.
Arise does need to be held accountable. They will be shitting themselves about this MBIE investigation, because if interns are found to be staff - then the backpay is gonna break them. Like, a church-ender.
I really hope so. A reckoning is long overdue for ARISE.
In Aotearoa, abuse is spelt A-R-I-S-E
I'm not even one of their victims, and my stomach dropped reading that. It seems so contradictory to me - I'm guessing many victims, if they really truly understood their testimony had a decent chance of becoming public, wouldn't want to provide testimony of any kind because of the high possibility of being re-victimized by their tormentor. And the cycle of abuse would continue.
Exactly how I felt. My stomach twisted while reading this.
How can abusive workplaces be investigated if lawyers for those places can access complaints and then bully those people. The checks and balances are not very balanced at the moment.
While it is infuriating you need to keep talking about Arise, it is always a timely reminder that if sunlight is the best disinfectant, Webworm is totally worth supporting to keep the rays illuminating their ongoing un-Christian behaviours. Let us hope the sunlight illuminates an ethical/empathetical path for MBIE to respond in a way that does NOT re-traumatise brave people who spoke up. While they might have been told information MIGHT be shared in the future, I can't see ARISE lawyers asking for their testimony without an actual legal proceeding underway, would be an anticipated event when deciding to go ahead.
On an unrelated topic, except for talking about the lowest of the low in terms of the way they treat/exploit people & misuse the legal system, I found "Tickled" on Beamafilms (which you can access in Aotearoa-New Zealand through your library membership) and while it is really disturbing (esp as someone who is ticklish, but I'm not a sexy young male so I'm safe ...) I hope that the doco might have saved some people from being sucked in, or at least going in with their eyes open as to what happen. Strangely, not as disturbing as Mister Organ, but then I guess that one is closer to home for me?
I think the scale of Tickled was bigger - a sort of weird adventure - but Mister Organ was definitely more disturbing. That was my experience living it, anyway. Never met anyone like him. Never want to again (but I will, no doubt!)
Thanks for checking them out!
Thank you for the reminder about Beamafilm and for the news that Tickled is there. Such a great resource with a wide range of films available. I can’t believe I forgot to look there when I went on a Tickled search a few weeks ago.
I often forget to check it out, but there are often good films or TV series well worth watching or even re-watching ... don't know if I'll rewatch Tickled anytime soon - important doco but helluva creepy people!
Arise doing this is straight out of the abusive cult handbook.
The purpose of this kind of legal action and any defamation lawsuits regarding the Cameron’s or Arise (and I wonder who these lawyers are acting for - possibly both) is not necessarily to win but more often to harass complainants and discourage anyone else from ever coming forward.
Evangelical megachurch’s often justify this action as necessary to ‘save souls’ since maligning the church imperils that ‘mission’ in their spiritual war with ‘Satanic forces’ like they are claiming David, Hayden and others to be.
Scientology is infamous for doing kind of thing under their ‘Fair Game’ policy. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Declaration/exhibg.html
I used to say "cult-like", but "cult" does seem increasingly accurate with Arise.
Yes I think even if they lose they have succeeded in dragging things out, intimidating people and just raising the general level of bad shit in the world
And omg that article is really disturbing
I actually feel physically ill reading this. I'm so sorry for the victims who are being retraumatised by this church. They're so nasty! Awful nasty yucky people with no moral compass. Ugh.