Thank you for this...I *literally* laughed out loud (and I am glad I was not drinking at the same time), which rarely happens with reading things. I was just trying to make "a funny" and you amplified it even more. Thank you for my laugh today, which I really needed. (and now I'm laughing again)
Hopefully you take that lightly as well! Sarcasm just doesn't translate in writing well, huh?! Unlike David's "apology" posts on Insta which were amazingly sarcastic!
Ladies, Marshall. the ladies in the room. We assume they were on the board making decisions but they could have just been making the tea, bringing a plate, doing the vacuuming/ironing, organising child care, brightening up the room. They are now probably all sheltering somewhere with PTSD and thanking God they got out
Don’t be under any allusion they were calling them women, they were definitely be calling them girls (and yes that is straight from my own board experience).
There’s a little thing that you forget that’s called a 1 year contract for being on the board and that ended in April. They are hiring more women so bug and stop making comments about things you have no idea about
Whatever the reason is that there are no women on the board - my gentle suggestion is it would be a good move for Arise to get some. I suppose if their contract was for a year - then Arise had a year to find board members who weren't white men.
As for "making comments about things you have no idea about" - I've been reporting on Arise for over a year now, so politely - I do have some idea. If you have anything constructive to add, feel free.
But accusations of "have no idea what you’re on about" aren't really welcome here at Webworm.
And maybe all of them voluntarily left and the best candidates to fill those slots are the people that have been selected, but appearance dynamics have a larger impact there (whether they should or not is a different debate) and that's what seems to be happening here, at a minimum.
Well, you will find that people here are quite civil when rational and civil discussions are promoted, even when people disagree. If you have additional factual information and context, I’m sure David would be interested, but it’s going to have to be factual and not subjective belief/faith. Personally I have no direct connection to the institution, yet I think we all have a responsibility to make sure all our fellow humans are being treated honestly and with respect when they do that for others, even when we have disagreements.
I’m pretty sure the chart is an attempt to make a very hierarchical top-down organisational structure try to appear like it is collaborative by putting everything in circles in a jumbly mess. (Instead of, you know, actually changing the leadership structure).
I think that this is what happens when you get people who have no requirements to understand the tools they're trying use.....then using the tools they're required to use. Like, corporates understand structure and systems and hierarchy because it's embedded in their journey up the ranks.....but as a Pastor.....you just "need to have faith" or "be called" in order to progress through the church hierarchy.....so when you actually get to the point where you need to articulate a systemic structure.....but it's been grown organically "based on faith" and the ideas of individuals rather than through design......then this kid's drawing of buzzwords, jargon and bollocks is what you get.
My guess is that they're trying to create something they can point to and say "see, look at all we did" and it will be overwhelming to most questioners who will just accept that as an answer. There's no plan to *actually* do anything, just create a confusing chart that can be used as the "yes, look and see here where we made a change to address that concern, so you don't need to worry about us anymore" answer.
Don’t they have the belief that men must have the final say on everything even when they are wrong. Then there is the Dunning Kruger thing, they are just too stupid to see how little they know
Because they don't think for a second that they've done anything wrong and you're really just getting in the way David 😏 I hope you continue to do so because this is some real fuckery now.
This is what I have heard referred to as "word salad". It's a jumble of seemingly important and deep thoughts which when questioned can be refuted with...well, you just don't understand the nuance. But at it's core it doesn't mean anything.
Ye couldn’a make this shit up 😅 do you ever suspect they might have meetings to decide what absolute nonsense they can come up with, just to give you another update to write about David? They really are a never-ending supply of poor choices and embarrassing behaviours, it seems almost on purpose
They're probably getting super cranky at David now, whenever they try to bandaid over some bullet wounds he exposes them and makes them look inept and rediculous 🤣 It's quite entertaining
😅 classic. This legit sounds like an episode of Mega, a comedy podcast about a fictional megachurch by improv comics and former churchies Holly Laurent and Greg Hess.
I highly recommend - it’s vibe is “religious trauma but funny as fuck”
The problem is very basic, and lies at the core of some aspects of this particular religion:
In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul wrote: “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church”.
Now, as with practically everything in the Bible, Paul's commandment is contradicted elsewhere.
But that's the beauty of this religion; like bulk-buy bins, you can pick and choose what to accept, what to reject, what to interpret any which way suits you (and your revenue stream).
If Arise chooses to follow Paul's commandment (which was written nearly 2,000 years before Suffragettes had something to say on this
matter) then their sexism not only makes "sense", but is mandatory.
It's also convenient for male chauvinists to maintain their supernaturally-mandated privilege. Never mind that all this was written two millenia ago. Whilst Arise leaders have adapted to modern ways by driving a Lexus instead of a donkey, they sure as heck haven't shown a willingness to treat women as 21st century equals.
That Governance and Leadership Roles diagram is a give-away; I've seen the likes of it many times. It's a typical symptom of the mutual-moneygrubbing networks that are the megachurches' raison d'etre: give a push to our boosterism train and we'll let you charge us for something, however incompetent you may be. Bill us for professional services and never mind the cost; every Sunday we hype up a congregation of willing donors who'll stump for it. (That said, try to do a little better next time, because we're at risk of being found out. If we have to duck for cover it'll take time to restart this gig somewhere else. Time is money, our god.)
I thought they might sell their Church for the homeless, it's very scriptural to give back to the community and Arise surely must be pious, I'm sure it would be no trouble for them to do such a thing. Perhaps I should put in a solemn request to them, or maybe just a quiet one to My God? Said with sincerity.
I have a theory that this chart was created in the same way a birthday card is circulated around an office and everyone is required to sign it.... where by the time it gets to the last people there is nothing left to say and nowhere to write.
They were tired of mansplaining to those women on the board, so they solved that by eliminating them.
This is meant to be amusing and making fun of their actions, so please read it in that light.
Thanks for mansplaining the mansplaining comment!
Thank you for this...I *literally* laughed out loud (and I am glad I was not drinking at the same time), which rarely happens with reading things. I was just trying to make "a funny" and you amplified it even more. Thank you for my laugh today, which I really needed. (and now I'm laughing again)
Glad I could help. Your comment made me laugh, too!
I came back to this and laughed again, so +10 humour points to you!
Hopefully you take that lightly as well! Sarcasm just doesn't translate in writing well, huh?! Unlike David's "apology" posts on Insta which were amazingly sarcastic!
You can use tone indicators, like /s or /jk, like they do on Reddit. As someone who is neurodiverse, I find them very useful for gauging tones.
LOLOLOL buuuuuuuurn! (in a supportive and caring way though, which is nice)
I think you're probably kinda... correct.
Ladies, Marshall. the ladies in the room. We assume they were on the board making decisions but they could have just been making the tea, bringing a plate, doing the vacuuming/ironing, organising child care, brightening up the room. They are now probably all sheltering somewhere with PTSD and thanking God they got out
hopefully they have realised that "god" is a construct created by arseholes as a social control mechanism, and they are receiving psychological help.
Don’t be under any allusion they were calling them women, they were definitely be calling them girls (and yes that is straight from my own board experience).
You have no idea what you’re on about.
There’s a little thing that you forget that’s called a 1 year contract for being on the board and that ended in April. They are hiring more women so bug and stop making comments about things you have no idea about
Hey Hannah,
Whatever the reason is that there are no women on the board - my gentle suggestion is it would be a good move for Arise to get some. I suppose if their contract was for a year - then Arise had a year to find board members who weren't white men.
As for "making comments about things you have no idea about" - I've been reporting on Arise for over a year now, so politely - I do have some idea. If you have anything constructive to add, feel free.
But accusations of "have no idea what you’re on about" aren't really welcome here at Webworm.
And maybe all of them voluntarily left and the best candidates to fill those slots are the people that have been selected, but appearance dynamics have a larger impact there (whether they should or not is a different debate) and that's what seems to be happening here, at a minimum.
No it’s not I’m from ARISE I know exactly what’s going on. Not really any of your business anyway
Well, you will find that people here are quite civil when rational and civil discussions are promoted, even when people disagree. If you have additional factual information and context, I’m sure David would be interested, but it’s going to have to be factual and not subjective belief/faith. Personally I have no direct connection to the institution, yet I think we all have a responsibility to make sure all our fellow humans are being treated honestly and with respect when they do that for others, even when we have disagreements.
Hey Hannah
It's not your role here to tell anyone what their business is or isn't.
As for knowing "exactly what's going on", feel free to fill me in: I am always davidfarrier@protonmail.com.
In the diagram do arrows represent the flow of money?
NOW the diagram makes sense.
Except as a charity, no money in taxes will be flowing on the arrow pointing to the Govt!
That dirty unfaithful corrupt Govt....lol
I initially skimmed your comment and misread it as “No money will be flowing to God.”
I thought, yeah, that makes sense
😂🤣😅
I’m pretty sure the chart is an attempt to make a very hierarchical top-down organisational structure try to appear like it is collaborative by putting everything in circles in a jumbly mess. (Instead of, you know, actually changing the leadership structure).
All jokes aside, I think you are bang on. It's incredibly deceptive, lame, and childish.
...and drawing it sideways. Cos, you know, a sideways diagram means they cannot possibly be top-heavy... 🤦♀️🙄
I think that this is what happens when you get people who have no requirements to understand the tools they're trying use.....then using the tools they're required to use. Like, corporates understand structure and systems and hierarchy because it's embedded in their journey up the ranks.....but as a Pastor.....you just "need to have faith" or "be called" in order to progress through the church hierarchy.....so when you actually get to the point where you need to articulate a systemic structure.....but it's been grown organically "based on faith" and the ideas of individuals rather than through design......then this kid's drawing of buzzwords, jargon and bollocks is what you get.
And be a man...don't forget. God doesn't "call" women!
this is all the faith I need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cs3Pvmmv0E
And ensuring that all of the boys get a title - Senior this, Elder that, Executive Advisory Leadership Team the other...
Why hire an external consultant when we can just voluntell one of our graphic designing parishioners to make us look like we care. :D
Pretty sure that chart is one of those dance move charts from the 50s. "It's just a jump to the left.."
"Time Warp" does seem rather appropriate here.
Congratulations to Arise for closing the Gender Pay Gap on their Board. Visionary.
This made me lol.
They completely eliminated it, wow!
👏🏻
Lol wtf is that chart 😂
If you figure it out, please let me know. Been puzzling over it for hours.
My guess is that they're trying to create something they can point to and say "see, look at all we did" and it will be overwhelming to most questioners who will just accept that as an answer. There's no plan to *actually* do anything, just create a confusing chart that can be used as the "yes, look and see here where we made a change to address that concern, so you don't need to worry about us anymore" answer.
Correct, methinks.
It's amazing that the board is pretty much worse than when I waded into this mess.
HOW DID THEY MANAGE TO ACTIVELY MAKE THINGS EVEN WORSE
Don’t they have the belief that men must have the final say on everything even when they are wrong. Then there is the Dunning Kruger thing, they are just too stupid to see how little they know
Because they don't think for a second that they've done anything wrong and you're really just getting in the way David 😏 I hope you continue to do so because this is some real fuckery now.
This is what I have heard referred to as "word salad". It's a jumble of seemingly important and deep thoughts which when questioned can be refuted with...well, you just don't understand the nuance. But at it's core it doesn't mean anything.
I just studied the diagram, report, and video for 3 hours and emailed you a lengthy analysis. :)
You're doing god's work, son....
Still neither of those matches this one from the US Army discussing the different influences and factions in Afghanistan around 2010: https://images.slideplayer.com/14/4328817/slides/slide_4.jpg
I've begun a collection of images like this to send to my consultant friend, when he becomes insufferable.
Another exceedingly bad one, perfect for a consultant: https://snarketing.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/the-worlds-worst-or-best-powerpoint-slide/
When you're compared to 'Afghanistan stability in 2010', there may be a problem in your organization.
God doesn't seem to be in the diagram!
Ye couldn’a make this shit up 😅 do you ever suspect they might have meetings to decide what absolute nonsense they can come up with, just to give you another update to write about David? They really are a never-ending supply of poor choices and embarrassing behaviours, it seems almost on purpose
They're probably getting super cranky at David now, whenever they try to bandaid over some bullet wounds he exposes them and makes them look inept and rediculous 🤣 It's quite entertaining
😅 classic. This legit sounds like an episode of Mega, a comedy podcast about a fictional megachurch by improv comics and former churchies Holly Laurent and Greg Hess.
I highly recommend - it’s vibe is “religious trauma but funny as fuck”
Farts & Prayers --> Interns
Honestly, their new diagram looks more like a woman’s reproductive system than the MCU, so at least they’re trying…
The problem is very basic, and lies at the core of some aspects of this particular religion:
In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul wrote: “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church”.
Now, as with practically everything in the Bible, Paul's commandment is contradicted elsewhere.
But that's the beauty of this religion; like bulk-buy bins, you can pick and choose what to accept, what to reject, what to interpret any which way suits you (and your revenue stream).
If Arise chooses to follow Paul's commandment (which was written nearly 2,000 years before Suffragettes had something to say on this
matter) then their sexism not only makes "sense", but is mandatory.
It's also convenient for male chauvinists to maintain their supernaturally-mandated privilege. Never mind that all this was written two millenia ago. Whilst Arise leaders have adapted to modern ways by driving a Lexus instead of a donkey, they sure as heck haven't shown a willingness to treat women as 21st century equals.
They forgot the head coverings too.
That Governance and Leadership Roles diagram is a give-away; I've seen the likes of it many times. It's a typical symptom of the mutual-moneygrubbing networks that are the megachurches' raison d'etre: give a push to our boosterism train and we'll let you charge us for something, however incompetent you may be. Bill us for professional services and never mind the cost; every Sunday we hype up a congregation of willing donors who'll stump for it. (That said, try to do a little better next time, because we're at risk of being found out. If we have to duck for cover it'll take time to restart this gig somewhere else. Time is money, our god.)
I thought they might sell their Church for the homeless, it's very scriptural to give back to the community and Arise surely must be pious, I'm sure it would be no trouble for them to do such a thing. Perhaps I should put in a solemn request to them, or maybe just a quiet one to My God? Said with sincerity.
I have a theory that this chart was created in the same way a birthday card is circulated around an office and everyone is required to sign it.... where by the time it gets to the last people there is nothing left to say and nowhere to write.
In the case of this chart...add another arrow.
‘Advise and guidance’ goes nowhere, literally 😝
And suspect that will refer to all the operational HR, legal etc advice
Would love to know what word is in the middle of that “Senior Pastor” and “General Manager” venn. I’m thinking .... predator?
The didn't have enough crayons for that. One of them probably ate it.
Like Morticia Addams, I can forgive anything..... except pastels.