Thanks for looking into this David, and I hope you're feeling better :)
The thing that gets a wry smile out of me with right-wing bullshit-peddlers, is that they usually have to resort to *tricking* people into believing they're legitimate. This Dreaneen guy and his disinformation site is a great example of how, so often, there's subterfuge about who they really are - the Taxpayer's "Union" also comes to mind. I wish their followers would just pause to think about that for a second. If they have to lie and trick people right from the start, what does that say about them?
Feeling very good today. Big walk. Saw a coyote. Happy.
And you're right - something very obvious that I hadn't really clocked in that way: They have to resort to some sort of trickery. Or not revealing all things. Not a great place to start from, eh?
I have met some people in the neighbourhood who keep an eye on them, track the population, and are in touch with vets if they get sick. They were here before humans - so I think it's fair we treat them with all the respect and care we can!
What is this wizardry. You wanted to write a story about a disinformation website, you wrote a brief pointedly passive-aggressive e-mail to the founder of the said website... and then old mate decided to write your article for you. Love it. That somehow seems like cheating.
Side-note - that argument about MSM NOT COVERING stuff is so frustrating. You can clearly point out how mainstream media does cover things and it just does nothing to the original accuser. Maybe 3 times, before I got sick of it, when I saw a claim like this I would quickly google and then paste in all the MSM sites which cover a certain topic. Each time, the moronic complainant would just be like... "nah". My rage would erupt and I would feel beaten. Just writing about it now annoys me. This was not a side-note. Thanks for another great read, so glad I subscribed.
Yeah - he went on and on and on. A gift from heaven. Couldn't shut his trap.
The completely non-sensical MSN NOT COVERING THIS THING is maddening. You and I both. So disprovable with something as easy as a Google search and yet... yeah.
Kia ora koutou, I know that most people reading Webworm don't need the nitty gritty scientific details to sensibly place their trust in the literally tens of thousands of health officials, doctors, scientists, and MPs around the world who are advocating for mRNA-based Covid vaccines, but as a scientist myself, who recently addressed some anti-Covid-vax sentiment in my own family, I feel like sharing the following documents might be helpful for others - if only as some background reading to prime you for similar conversations with your whānau.
Also - to the commenters below lamenting the representation of wāhine in science... boy could I tell you some stories.
I have a BSc (Hons) in Biochemistry and a Ph.D in Mech Eng. and currently work as a research scientist in NZ. I do not work with immunology, RNA, or medical research, but as many commenters have pointed out below, anyone with a high-school level understanding of biology should be able to follow this stuff.
In the case of addressing the anti-mRNA vaccine sentiment in my family, I found that my loved ones were scared of the vaccine because they had heard the (common, and stupid) argument that it can 'get into your cell nuclei and alter your DNA'. They also claim that 'we just don't know the long-term effects' because we haven't had it long enough (which is a lol argument given that we DO know the long-term effects of Covid-19 and that has also only been around a very very short while). Among other alt-right media (a story for another day) they had been 'following' a guy called Dr. Robert Malone (somewhere, I presume YouTube) who claims to have invented the mRNA vaccines and is now (in official capacity as medical doctor) saying only vulnerable people should get vaccinated. However, in more 'comfortable' media outlets where he can really let the crazy shine, his claims are far more extreme and dangerous.
A few hours of reading up, mainly this article https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w, made it clear to me that this Dr. Malone has been spreading harmful messages about mRNA vaccines because he feels like he is owed money. Classic. He was one of hundreds of researchers who helped develop them but feels it is his right, and his alone, to claim patent rights (and thus financial benefit) to the mRNA vaccines. Unfortunately for him, any legitimate claims to patent rights are now expired or have been sold off years ago, so he's pissed off he can't make money from it and is thus parading around a bunch of Steve Banner's media outlets spreading bullshit, out of spite so no one else makes money (as far as I read it).
The Nature article linked above is awesome, interesting, very well written, well referenced, and I highly recommend it.
P.S. my 'vaccine-hesitant' family members have now had their first jab of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine. They've also swallowed some argument about waiting 10 weeks for the next one (sigh, you can't win them all) but I left it at that, figuring best not to push my luck.
NB: While there is scientific reason behind extending the wait time for second jab to raise efficacy, my advice would be to LISTEN TO OFFICIAL HEALTH INFO because someone smarter than you (likely hundreds of people smarter than you) have decided that the best wait time in your area/country is X weeks according to how severe the outbreak is and how much difference in efficacy a varied gap between jabs will give you, with the ultimate sum of the equation being a minimal number of hospitalisations & deaths.
Sarah - would you mind if I used your paragraphs above in the original piece that exists on line - sort of as a PS / NB for those that need resources? It's really fucking valuable - even here in the comments - but I'd like to bump it up.
As you said - my thinking was that this piece didn't need to be a "debunking" re: mRNA scepticism - but maybe it would be handy to include it afterall...
Yeah go ahead, absolutely, happy to help. Maybe just edit out my surname and credentials at the end (unless you think them crucial) on the off chance my parents stumble across this story and recognise my alluding to them (I doubt it though)
Just like to add - from my research (and non-medical background) we have a lot to be excited about when it comes to mRNA vaccines.
The advantages it has in safety and speed of development over traditional vaccines in particular, make me hopeful we can start nailing down some of the other health conditions currently plaguing humanity (HIV, cancer etc).
These will also be instrumental in combatting new highly deadly versions of flu and coronaviruses rear their ugly heads.
Good timing, I am knee deep in a FB argument with a Texas anti vaxxer on a mutual friend's FB page. The rants & lists of "doctors claims" & videos from non MSM media this guy comes up with make him look a combination of paranoid, patronising and utterly deranged. Genuine Q, has anyone ever used the phrase "virtue signalling" who isn't a monumental asshat?
There is also the thinly veiled implication is that even you don't actually believe what you're saying or hold the moral position you do, you're just posturing for effect.
However, it's well-established that people will often engage in arguments, especially on social media, knowing they're unlikely to convince the other person of anything but trying to either influence unaligned bystanders or to offer support and belonging with like-minded others. That's confirmation bias and motivated reasoning for you.
So calling that 'virtue signalling' i.e. something 'bad' the other person does that and that you don't is pretty shitty and usually just said to get a rise out of the other person - i.e. it's trolling.
'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.'
Do you know what's been extremely funny to me this whole year is that anyone who remembers a bit of high school or college biology knows that mRNA exists in *every cell* in your body. Your cells cannot replicate without it. These people are just too ignorant to figure that out. Hopefully there's a reader here who can expand on the purpose of mRNA, because I really do only recall a bit from high school.
Next little thing that amused me: Mr. pontyboy on Twitter says how dangerous big tech is. Sir, you have posted this on your public Twitter account. That's just a good little laugh.
I also love how these dudes see that they are clearly being looked into by an *investigative journalist* but they don't even bother to Google you! Or they'd know that most of this stuff ends up here these days and not in, I dunno, AP wires! And they would see the considerable hell you've rained down on other scammers (that's meant as a compliment). I just think that's funny. They're so reactionary.
And just to be fair: It isn't *only* men who threaten you with litigation. We can't forget about about Anna Whatsherface (or maybe we can, because I don't even recall her last name.)
Yeah, he's all over Facebook and Twitter. It's very funny. I mean, you have to take some joy from this, right? And yeah - I didn't even bother to get into the debunking thing RE: rRNA here. I figure Webworm readers don't need to be clued up on obvious things.
If only some high school stuff stuck with adults, huh.
All I really recall about mRNA is that you need it for mitosis, which is, you know, pretty key to living. Hilarious to me that these nuts are afraid of having a natural material injected just because they didn't pay attention in school.
Correct - Messenger RNA is still the cornerstone of cell division and replication for all life. RNA evolved before DNA and while DNA evolved as a more durable storage format, the engine of cell division is still based on RNA. That shift is the basis of the RNA world hypothesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world
Consciousness, computational neuroscience and it's links to information theory would be my second biggest interest.
And to be honest, they're actually kind of the same one really since (spoiler alert) when you dig in, there's a lot of overlap between evolution, consciousness and information theory.
Wait i just saw you with a doggo, are you allowed outside now? Dogs can get covid y'know. (I'm joking i don't really think you gave a dog covid, but seriously, are you allowed out now?)
As to the science of mRNA… the basics are simple, you’re right. You would think those biology basics are so simple they’re unarguable… It should be enough, but it’s not. I think it’s because the fear people have of this vaccine are really, truly, not based on reality. They certainly aren’t based on scientific thought. They’re based on fear, xenophobia (if that can be applied to something like mRNA), and sometimes an ugly dose of superiority complex.
The number of self-proclaimed ‘gods’ and ‘goddesses’ in my town, their divine bodies and sacred beings, is cute and quirky in normal times, but it’s definitely amplified the difficulty during this pandemic. These (generally lovely but somewhat deluded… and ultimately extraordinarily self-centred) people are refusing the vaccine based on the concept of not wanting to dirty themselves… hello ‘pure-blood’ connotations, ugh. They won’t corrupt their divine beings with something as energetically impure as a vaccine (man-made… horror!). Their god-given/godly immune systems will take care of them (um, nope… that immune system crawled out of the primordial swamp with everyone else and hasn’t ever met SARS-cov-2 before). It even extends to mask-wearing… so many bogus exemptions because their precious cells “need oxygen” and a few minutes wearing some cloth over their mouth and nose might mean less than optimal oxygen levels… it wont, but that’s the excuse. Holy dog, I’m tired of the spiritual superiority around here.
Can you tell I’m a bit cranky about these delusions of spiritual grandeur? Like, get your heads back down on the earth - we’re all just imperfectly evolved animals, with imperfectly evolved immune systems… luckily some of us are Very Smart animals who have made this amazing vaccine to help our imperfect immune systems get a head start…
While the *social* aspects of science have often been (and still are) undeniably sexist, the idea that the *scientific method* itself is somehow gendered (i.e. 'man-made') must be so offensive and galling to all the amazing women of science, past and present.
Dressing up pseudo-science as a form of spiritual feminism doesn't seem likely to lead to true empowerment and equality to me. But maybe it's sexist of me to think so. I admit that this does get rather tricky given science's troubling history in respect to women's issues.
I think it's a case of them knowing enough to be dangerous in what they think they know. I'm not sure but I think they view the mRNA vaccine as "rushed" (it's not - scientists just happened to be working on it for a decade already because of HIV and SARS etc. We got extremely lucky).
And I think the idea that RNA is linked to genetics, might give lay people the idea that it could be dangerous if it got into your cells, like genetic engineering or something.
Of course that's about as likely as eating peanuts and having peanut RNA start joining your cellular machinery 🤣
Apologies if I got this wrong, my biology knowledge is now 20 years out of date since my University days 😄
Once again, another Webworm that coincidentally aligns with my recent thoughts. Stop hitting my zeitgeist so damn accurately David, it's getting creepy.
Basically, I've been thinking a lot about disinformation/misinformation and the spreading of it.
For example, I used to be a big fan of The Joe Rogan Experience. Joe has always been a big meathead with questionable views, but they were largely innocuous (moon landing was faked etc). But he went through a shift a few years back where he became more inquisitive and curious. His show became big enough to get a lot of interesting guests, and Joe was a deceptively good interviewer. His idiocy made him a good avatar for the audience, getting very smart people to dumb stuff down enough for the layman.
But then covid hit and he's gone off the fucking rails. His lack of critical thinking skills are on full display and he's allowed a raft of right wing grifters to come on his site and poison his brain with bullshit.
He's become a cliche of a Fox News watching, meme sharing, Facebook boomer conspiracy theorist. It's been kind of nuts to watch happen in real time. I've stopped watching his show completely, but I watch clips online in fascination as the car crash keeps unfolding.
Recently I saw a clip of him talking about Seattle. "It's a war zone! It's like a third world country! They literally have masked antifa thugs guarding the streets and asking you for your papers! It's crazy!" All of which is obviously not true.
There were people in the comments actually from Seattle, all of whom were saying that Joe is out of his fucking gourd and lying his tits off. Now, I don't think Joe was "lying" as such, because he probably believes what he's saying, but the fact is, he's spreading absolute bullshit to his audience of millions.
And it just... Happens. He says something absolutely untrue to millions of people... And that's it.
And I find that very odd. Surely they're should be some sort of consequence to that... Right? Just spreading absolute drivel to an eager audience of millions. Surely that shouldn't just happen.
I have no idea what an appropriate consequence should be, but it's something we need to work out. Because of course Joe is a very prominent example but we are all aware what a gargantuan problem this is. The Daily Telegraph being another perfect example.
We need to work out a way to actually deal with all the bullshit invading our lives.
The more I think about it, the more I realise it may be the most pressing issue of our times. Yes, even bigger than climate change or covid, because the disinformation issue affects EVERYTHING.
So... If you could come up with a solution for us, that'd be awesome.
Yeah - Joe Rogan. I have never followed him closely but what you say closely mirrors a few friend's experiences who have watched how he's morphed and turned into someone who platforms bad ideas.
I found this recently really therapeutic - and must have sent it to about 50 people since. And it reminded me how comedy can be the best way to critique something and point out the obvious.
Forgive me if you've seen this - but Tim of Tim and Eric Fame has this podcast called Office Hours - and a recent episode was just an 11 hour (literally 11 hours) Joe Rogan spoof.
They NEVER announced thats what this was. They just did it.
Jump to ANYWHERE in this 11 hours and you will be in the middle of a very convincing Rogan episode: His subjects are perfect too - all in character - and demonstrate the maddening circular logic.
To be honest, it doesn't even need to "come out". He's not hiding it haha. Just watch a recent episode of his podcast, (doesn't really matter which episode, they're all much of a muchness these days) and you'll get a smorgasbord of misinformation.
Yeah... I guess I'm hoping a tidal wave of negative press will spread the news further and create a critical mass that Spotify can no longer ignore, or something like that.
Several voices have been calling for a reinstatement of the FCC fairness doctrine in the USA and for it to be applied to all forms of media. Too late now though, I think.
I agree that the toothpaste feels well and truly out of the tube with this stuff, but there has to be something we can do. I dunno what that is, but there will be something.
Went through a similar journey with Rogan. First new of him from News Radio (which I liked a lot), never watched the reality TV he did but thought was a prick around the 'Moon Landing fake' era.
Then heard his podcasts, liked them but realised it was more the guests than him and they all appear elsewhere, was annoyed by his alt med BS. Left him before the COVID decline but have been an interested distant observer.
"A simple Google search". One of the things that never ceases to bemuse me about all these people who are down their various rabbit holes, is why, apparently spending most of the day on the Internet, they never do a simple Google search for themselves. Now Google can lead you down a few rabbit holes, too, which is why I prefer to cross reference with Wikipedia, but I just cannot understand why these people don't come up for air occasionally and look at other sources of information.
May I may a plea, at this point, for people to donate to Wikipedia. I give them $20 a year and they do need some funds to keep operating.
Great morning read thanks David. These sites just prey on sad, worried powerless people. It’s the worst side of the internet in my opinion. But luckily, the good side is held up with great writing and investigation from you. Keep up the great work. Really enjoying the subscription.
The AI artwork is spot on. Thanks for uncovering this extraordinarily deceptively named site and exposing it for what it is. Your boss should be happy!
This is a bit tangential, but my OH managed to convince a neighbour that it might be an idea to get jabbed yesterday by a respectful conversation. He's pretty agile in a debate, so he did well.
Old guy: yeah, well, I'll wait until it's a bit closer
Second old guy: isn't Green Lake Hut close enough to be concerned? The truth is, you might pass anyone's in the street who's infectious, no matter where you are.
Old guy: so you've been jabbed, what side effects did you have?
Second old guy: week, my arm was sore for a few days, just like with any other vaccine.
Iong pause.....
Old guy: you, well, I might just go and get that done, then.
Probably low hanging misinformed fruit on the anti vax scale, but still, worth it.
This quiet, straight forward very low key convo is really, really nice. I am glad it cut through some mild level scepticism. It doesn't need to be "argey argey" :P
Thank you for outing yet another textbook example of a white, male, hysterical “snowflake” - the only thing that term would apply to more is a literal snowflake. WTAF this cockwomble really should have googled you before writing this hit piece on himself for you 🤦♀️
Thank you! I loved this! Yea let's push back. I am 'friends' with a fairly well known musician and he just this morning sent me a hideous rant about the PM on FB messenger. I responded with an expose piece about the racist RW arsehole and told him to check his fear metre and apply his brain. For every utter mad load of conspiracy theory crap he sends, I now have access to good logical responses, thanks to you and people like you. X but this stuff still breaks my heart on a daily basis.
It's sad when creatives go down these paths. Not the right battle to pick.
This may bring you some joy from some wellness anti-vaxxers - who are very quick to claim they are not being anti-vax (always the case): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWLGTB0coec
Great read, and happy you're back to feeling yourself. How lovely to see a Coyote in the early hours.
Malcolm triggered my sleaze radar, especially with his last note "I spent 13 years as a litigator and miss the ‘argey argey’ of the bar from time to time", that must have had you quaking, lol. I'm so curious by his family dynamic, he certainly gives the impression of a typical child of parents that had to work hard to get where they are and had enough success to raise a spoiled prat that takes too much for granted. His parents are vaccinated yet he decided it wasn't for him. His Dad, too rightly, didn't want the family name to be associated with Malcolm's drivel and I just can't help wondering what his father thinks of all this now? Malcolm seems thrilled he is getting enough attention that he can flex his argey muscles but I can't imagine his father is impressed? I agree with RachelB, gross that these types use the guise of legitimate media to reel in readers, but shame on those that stay and feel the desire to donate.
Thanks for the read.
I was so excited to book tickets to fly into LA for work, arriving on New Years Eve, but realise I arrive a few hours too late and will miss your show at The Wiltern with Dax and Monica. Sure it will be an awesome one :)
Ah David you are the coolest nicest dude, thank you, but no, I feel like I didn't earn the right for a T-shirt! I don't want to take one from someone that actually made it to the show, theres nothing better than having that shirt you got at a great show as a reminder each time you put it on. Plus, my awesome webworm shirt will be arriving any day now. Hope your furniture situation has improved, and thanks again for the fucking awesome gesture, you rock.
Ah, you understand the joys / significance of gig tees - thankyou. Or I should say some audience member will say thank you! Travel safe please. Glad some WW is heading to you!
Glad to hear you’re feeling better, David. I’m reading this in bed (Saturday morning here) with one cat sitting on my pillow and the other directly on my chest glaring at me to put the phone down and get them breakfast. I should probably go and do that, but just wanted to say thanks for the read!
Great read over my morning coffee, thanks David. Sites like these make me yearn for the sudden demise of the internet. But then....saved by the AI art tool! (Hope you are feeling better).
Please plug some stuff into that AI art tool - it's a lot of fun, and works in a variety of styles! Happy breakfast. Like that this was your reading material to accompany it. Cheers.
I was wondering why you were aiming your criticism at Michael Dreaneen when the email was written by Malcolm (by the looks of it his son with a couple of shares in the company) but then I got waylaid by the AI art tool and made a fantasy cats sleeping pic. It's no wonder I'm referred to as seven second Sue. Anyway, great article as always. Cheers..
Thanks for looking into this David, and I hope you're feeling better :)
The thing that gets a wry smile out of me with right-wing bullshit-peddlers, is that they usually have to resort to *tricking* people into believing they're legitimate. This Dreaneen guy and his disinformation site is a great example of how, so often, there's subterfuge about who they really are - the Taxpayer's "Union" also comes to mind. I wish their followers would just pause to think about that for a second. If they have to lie and trick people right from the start, what does that say about them?
Feeling very good today. Big walk. Saw a coyote. Happy.
And you're right - something very obvious that I hadn't really clocked in that way: They have to resort to some sort of trickery. Or not revealing all things. Not a great place to start from, eh?
Wow a coyote! That is exciting!
I have met some people in the neighbourhood who keep an eye on them, track the population, and are in touch with vets if they get sick. They were here before humans - so I think it's fair we treat them with all the respect and care we can!
The same sort of behaviour you see in people pushing MLM scams.
What is this wizardry. You wanted to write a story about a disinformation website, you wrote a brief pointedly passive-aggressive e-mail to the founder of the said website... and then old mate decided to write your article for you. Love it. That somehow seems like cheating.
Side-note - that argument about MSM NOT COVERING stuff is so frustrating. You can clearly point out how mainstream media does cover things and it just does nothing to the original accuser. Maybe 3 times, before I got sick of it, when I saw a claim like this I would quickly google and then paste in all the MSM sites which cover a certain topic. Each time, the moronic complainant would just be like... "nah". My rage would erupt and I would feel beaten. Just writing about it now annoys me. This was not a side-note. Thanks for another great read, so glad I subscribed.
Yeah - he went on and on and on. A gift from heaven. Couldn't shut his trap.
The completely non-sensical MSN NOT COVERING THIS THING is maddening. You and I both. So disprovable with something as easy as a Google search and yet... yeah.
Maybe they’re just not covering it ‘correctly’… i.e from preferred bias
Kia ora koutou, I know that most people reading Webworm don't need the nitty gritty scientific details to sensibly place their trust in the literally tens of thousands of health officials, doctors, scientists, and MPs around the world who are advocating for mRNA-based Covid vaccines, but as a scientist myself, who recently addressed some anti-Covid-vax sentiment in my own family, I feel like sharing the following documents might be helpful for others - if only as some background reading to prime you for similar conversations with your whānau.
Also - to the commenters below lamenting the representation of wāhine in science... boy could I tell you some stories.
I have a BSc (Hons) in Biochemistry and a Ph.D in Mech Eng. and currently work as a research scientist in NZ. I do not work with immunology, RNA, or medical research, but as many commenters have pointed out below, anyone with a high-school level understanding of biology should be able to follow this stuff.
In the case of addressing the anti-mRNA vaccine sentiment in my family, I found that my loved ones were scared of the vaccine because they had heard the (common, and stupid) argument that it can 'get into your cell nuclei and alter your DNA'. They also claim that 'we just don't know the long-term effects' because we haven't had it long enough (which is a lol argument given that we DO know the long-term effects of Covid-19 and that has also only been around a very very short while). Among other alt-right media (a story for another day) they had been 'following' a guy called Dr. Robert Malone (somewhere, I presume YouTube) who claims to have invented the mRNA vaccines and is now (in official capacity as medical doctor) saying only vulnerable people should get vaccinated. However, in more 'comfortable' media outlets where he can really let the crazy shine, his claims are far more extreme and dangerous.
A few hours of reading up, mainly this article https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w, made it clear to me that this Dr. Malone has been spreading harmful messages about mRNA vaccines because he feels like he is owed money. Classic. He was one of hundreds of researchers who helped develop them but feels it is his right, and his alone, to claim patent rights (and thus financial benefit) to the mRNA vaccines. Unfortunately for him, any legitimate claims to patent rights are now expired or have been sold off years ago, so he's pissed off he can't make money from it and is thus parading around a bunch of Steve Banner's media outlets spreading bullshit, out of spite so no one else makes money (as far as I read it).
The Nature article linked above is awesome, interesting, very well written, well referenced, and I highly recommend it.
Another useful pamphlet to explain how they work can be found here https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine.html
Kia pai o koutou rā!
Sarah Fitzpatrick, Ph.D (University of Canterbury, Chch, NZ) now AgResearch Limited, NZ.
(these views are my own (educated) deductions and I do not claim to represent my employer or educational institution in an official capacity)
P.S. my 'vaccine-hesitant' family members have now had their first jab of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine. They've also swallowed some argument about waiting 10 weeks for the next one (sigh, you can't win them all) but I left it at that, figuring best not to push my luck.
NB: While there is scientific reason behind extending the wait time for second jab to raise efficacy, my advice would be to LISTEN TO OFFICIAL HEALTH INFO because someone smarter than you (likely hundreds of people smarter than you) have decided that the best wait time in your area/country is X weeks according to how severe the outbreak is and how much difference in efficacy a varied gap between jabs will give you, with the ultimate sum of the equation being a minimal number of hospitalisations & deaths.
Sarah - would you mind if I used your paragraphs above in the original piece that exists on line - sort of as a PS / NB for those that need resources? It's really fucking valuable - even here in the comments - but I'd like to bump it up.
As you said - my thinking was that this piece didn't need to be a "debunking" re: mRNA scepticism - but maybe it would be handy to include it afterall...
Yeah go ahead, absolutely, happy to help. Maybe just edit out my surname and credentials at the end (unless you think them crucial) on the off chance my parents stumble across this story and recognise my alluding to them (I doubt it though)
All good!
Very well said! And glad your family members have finally got their jab, that must be a weight off your shoulders
Thanks for sharing that piece from nature.com.
Just like to add - from my research (and non-medical background) we have a lot to be excited about when it comes to mRNA vaccines.
The advantages it has in safety and speed of development over traditional vaccines in particular, make me hopeful we can start nailing down some of the other health conditions currently plaguing humanity (HIV, cancer etc).
These will also be instrumental in combatting new highly deadly versions of flu and coronaviruses rear their ugly heads.
Good timing, I am knee deep in a FB argument with a Texas anti vaxxer on a mutual friend's FB page. The rants & lists of "doctors claims" & videos from non MSM media this guy comes up with make him look a combination of paranoid, patronising and utterly deranged. Genuine Q, has anyone ever used the phrase "virtue signalling" who isn't a monumental asshat?
To answer you: No.
Pretty much by definition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling claims that someone is 'virtue signalling' signifies contempt for the arguments and opinions of others.
There is also the thinly veiled implication is that even you don't actually believe what you're saying or hold the moral position you do, you're just posturing for effect.
However, it's well-established that people will often engage in arguments, especially on social media, knowing they're unlikely to convince the other person of anything but trying to either influence unaligned bystanders or to offer support and belonging with like-minded others. That's confirmation bias and motivated reasoning for you.
But given that everyone does that to a lesser or greater extent, it's not really a surprising thing - it's part of being a human in an argument. https://www.edge.org/conversation/hugo_mercier-the-argumentative-theory
So calling that 'virtue signalling' i.e. something 'bad' the other person does that and that you don't is pretty shitty and usually just said to get a rise out of the other person - i.e. it's trolling.
I shall embark on this quest you've given me. Will I find the holy non-asshat or not?
If you do find them, repeat after our saviour:
'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
Do you know what's been extremely funny to me this whole year is that anyone who remembers a bit of high school or college biology knows that mRNA exists in *every cell* in your body. Your cells cannot replicate without it. These people are just too ignorant to figure that out. Hopefully there's a reader here who can expand on the purpose of mRNA, because I really do only recall a bit from high school.
Next little thing that amused me: Mr. pontyboy on Twitter says how dangerous big tech is. Sir, you have posted this on your public Twitter account. That's just a good little laugh.
I also love how these dudes see that they are clearly being looked into by an *investigative journalist* but they don't even bother to Google you! Or they'd know that most of this stuff ends up here these days and not in, I dunno, AP wires! And they would see the considerable hell you've rained down on other scammers (that's meant as a compliment). I just think that's funny. They're so reactionary.
And just to be fair: It isn't *only* men who threaten you with litigation. We can't forget about about Anna Whatsherface (or maybe we can, because I don't even recall her last name.)
Yeah, he's all over Facebook and Twitter. It's very funny. I mean, you have to take some joy from this, right? And yeah - I didn't even bother to get into the debunking thing RE: rRNA here. I figure Webworm readers don't need to be clued up on obvious things.
If only some high school stuff stuck with adults, huh.
All I really recall about mRNA is that you need it for mitosis, which is, you know, pretty key to living. Hilarious to me that these nuts are afraid of having a natural material injected just because they didn't pay attention in school.
Correct - Messenger RNA is still the cornerstone of cell division and replication for all life. RNA evolved before DNA and while DNA evolved as a more durable storage format, the engine of cell division is still based on RNA. That shift is the basis of the RNA world hypothesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world
Oh course you'd be able to explain it us, Paul, man of all knowledge!
Um.. that's kind of a cognitive illusion - you just have a knack for picking topics that I happen to have a really strong interest in.
Evolutionary biology and the information-theoretic understanding of it happens to be a really big one - probably my biggest.
John Avery's 2010 book on the subject is pretty cool:
https://www.amazon.com/Information-Theory-Evolution-Scales-Avery/dp/9814401234
For a more technical touch on the subject:
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2016.0416
Consciousness, computational neuroscience and it's links to information theory would be my second biggest interest.
And to be honest, they're actually kind of the same one really since (spoiler alert) when you dig in, there's a lot of overlap between evolution, consciousness and information theory.
Wait i just saw you with a doggo, are you allowed outside now? Dogs can get covid y'know. (I'm joking i don't really think you gave a dog covid, but seriously, are you allowed out now?)
As to the science of mRNA… the basics are simple, you’re right. You would think those biology basics are so simple they’re unarguable… It should be enough, but it’s not. I think it’s because the fear people have of this vaccine are really, truly, not based on reality. They certainly aren’t based on scientific thought. They’re based on fear, xenophobia (if that can be applied to something like mRNA), and sometimes an ugly dose of superiority complex.
The number of self-proclaimed ‘gods’ and ‘goddesses’ in my town, their divine bodies and sacred beings, is cute and quirky in normal times, but it’s definitely amplified the difficulty during this pandemic. These (generally lovely but somewhat deluded… and ultimately extraordinarily self-centred) people are refusing the vaccine based on the concept of not wanting to dirty themselves… hello ‘pure-blood’ connotations, ugh. They won’t corrupt their divine beings with something as energetically impure as a vaccine (man-made… horror!). Their god-given/godly immune systems will take care of them (um, nope… that immune system crawled out of the primordial swamp with everyone else and hasn’t ever met SARS-cov-2 before). It even extends to mask-wearing… so many bogus exemptions because their precious cells “need oxygen” and a few minutes wearing some cloth over their mouth and nose might mean less than optimal oxygen levels… it wont, but that’s the excuse. Holy dog, I’m tired of the spiritual superiority around here.
Can you tell I’m a bit cranky about these delusions of spiritual grandeur? Like, get your heads back down on the earth - we’re all just imperfectly evolved animals, with imperfectly evolved immune systems… luckily some of us are Very Smart animals who have made this amazing vaccine to help our imperfect immune systems get a head start…
Preach it, sister!
While the *social* aspects of science have often been (and still are) undeniably sexist, the idea that the *scientific method* itself is somehow gendered (i.e. 'man-made') must be so offensive and galling to all the amazing women of science, past and present.
We need more women and girls in STEM fields https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science,_technology,_engineering,_and_mathematics and the idea that it's unfeminine or not divine goddess-y enough is really unhelpful.
Dressing up pseudo-science as a form of spiritual feminism doesn't seem likely to lead to true empowerment and equality to me. But maybe it's sexist of me to think so. I admit that this does get rather tricky given science's troubling history in respect to women's issues.
I think it's a case of them knowing enough to be dangerous in what they think they know. I'm not sure but I think they view the mRNA vaccine as "rushed" (it's not - scientists just happened to be working on it for a decade already because of HIV and SARS etc. We got extremely lucky).
And I think the idea that RNA is linked to genetics, might give lay people the idea that it could be dangerous if it got into your cells, like genetic engineering or something.
Of course that's about as likely as eating peanuts and having peanut RNA start joining your cellular machinery 🤣
Apologies if I got this wrong, my biology knowledge is now 20 years out of date since my University days 😄
Once again, another Webworm that coincidentally aligns with my recent thoughts. Stop hitting my zeitgeist so damn accurately David, it's getting creepy.
Basically, I've been thinking a lot about disinformation/misinformation and the spreading of it.
For example, I used to be a big fan of The Joe Rogan Experience. Joe has always been a big meathead with questionable views, but they were largely innocuous (moon landing was faked etc). But he went through a shift a few years back where he became more inquisitive and curious. His show became big enough to get a lot of interesting guests, and Joe was a deceptively good interviewer. His idiocy made him a good avatar for the audience, getting very smart people to dumb stuff down enough for the layman.
But then covid hit and he's gone off the fucking rails. His lack of critical thinking skills are on full display and he's allowed a raft of right wing grifters to come on his site and poison his brain with bullshit.
He's become a cliche of a Fox News watching, meme sharing, Facebook boomer conspiracy theorist. It's been kind of nuts to watch happen in real time. I've stopped watching his show completely, but I watch clips online in fascination as the car crash keeps unfolding.
Recently I saw a clip of him talking about Seattle. "It's a war zone! It's like a third world country! They literally have masked antifa thugs guarding the streets and asking you for your papers! It's crazy!" All of which is obviously not true.
There were people in the comments actually from Seattle, all of whom were saying that Joe is out of his fucking gourd and lying his tits off. Now, I don't think Joe was "lying" as such, because he probably believes what he's saying, but the fact is, he's spreading absolute bullshit to his audience of millions.
And it just... Happens. He says something absolutely untrue to millions of people... And that's it.
And I find that very odd. Surely they're should be some sort of consequence to that... Right? Just spreading absolute drivel to an eager audience of millions. Surely that shouldn't just happen.
I have no idea what an appropriate consequence should be, but it's something we need to work out. Because of course Joe is a very prominent example but we are all aware what a gargantuan problem this is. The Daily Telegraph being another perfect example.
We need to work out a way to actually deal with all the bullshit invading our lives.
The more I think about it, the more I realise it may be the most pressing issue of our times. Yes, even bigger than climate change or covid, because the disinformation issue affects EVERYTHING.
So... If you could come up with a solution for us, that'd be awesome.
Thanks David.
Yeah - Joe Rogan. I have never followed him closely but what you say closely mirrors a few friend's experiences who have watched how he's morphed and turned into someone who platforms bad ideas.
I found this recently really therapeutic - and must have sent it to about 50 people since. And it reminded me how comedy can be the best way to critique something and point out the obvious.
Forgive me if you've seen this - but Tim of Tim and Eric Fame has this podcast called Office Hours - and a recent episode was just an 11 hour (literally 11 hours) Joe Rogan spoof.
They NEVER announced thats what this was. They just did it.
Jump to ANYWHERE in this 11 hours and you will be in the middle of a very convincing Rogan episode: His subjects are perfect too - all in character - and demonstrate the maddening circular logic.
Fuck me - it's 12 hours! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Iyg9fznvM&t=28033s
David
hahaha yes, I have seen that insane 12 hour parody (not the whole 12 hours obv) and it's genius. They absolutely nail the tone.
There's more and more coming out about Joe Rogan - I just hope it makes some difference! I read this piece this week
https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/7/22821823/joe-rogan-media-matters-hot-pod-spotify-moderation
To be honest, it doesn't even need to "come out". He's not hiding it haha. Just watch a recent episode of his podcast, (doesn't really matter which episode, they're all much of a muchness these days) and you'll get a smorgasbord of misinformation.
Yeah... I guess I'm hoping a tidal wave of negative press will spread the news further and create a critical mass that Spotify can no longer ignore, or something like that.
Joe Rogan; it seems the more money he makes the more he detaches from reality.
That's definitely part of it. He's been wealthy for the entire time he's done a podcast, but not "$100 million from Spotify" rich.
I try not to think how much money he was given in that deal. Yikes.
Several voices have been calling for a reinstatement of the FCC fairness doctrine in the USA and for it to be applied to all forms of media. Too late now though, I think.
I agree that the toothpaste feels well and truly out of the tube with this stuff, but there has to be something we can do. I dunno what that is, but there will be something.
Went through a similar journey with Rogan. First new of him from News Radio (which I liked a lot), never watched the reality TV he did but thought was a prick around the 'Moon Landing fake' era.
Then heard his podcasts, liked them but realised it was more the guests than him and they all appear elsewhere, was annoyed by his alt med BS. Left him before the COVID decline but have been an interested distant observer.
"A simple Google search". One of the things that never ceases to bemuse me about all these people who are down their various rabbit holes, is why, apparently spending most of the day on the Internet, they never do a simple Google search for themselves. Now Google can lead you down a few rabbit holes, too, which is why I prefer to cross reference with Wikipedia, but I just cannot understand why these people don't come up for air occasionally and look at other sources of information.
May I may a plea, at this point, for people to donate to Wikipedia. I give them $20 a year and they do need some funds to keep operating.
It stuns me. Every time. It's all confirmation bias I guess - they just don't want to even try.
Great morning read thanks David. These sites just prey on sad, worried powerless people. It’s the worst side of the internet in my opinion. But luckily, the good side is held up with great writing and investigation from you. Keep up the great work. Really enjoying the subscription.
Thanks for being here David. They are out to prey and obfuscate, for sure. It's frustrating to see, *because it works*
The AI artwork is spot on. Thanks for uncovering this extraordinarily deceptively named site and exposing it for what it is. Your boss should be happy!
My boss is so, so happy! He's given me the day off!
Bosses you mean. Cos msm is littered with them.
Hope your boss gives you a raise for this excellent and informative article!! 😋
:D
This is a bit tangential, but my OH managed to convince a neighbour that it might be an idea to get jabbed yesterday by a respectful conversation. He's pretty agile in a debate, so he did well.
Old guy: yeah, well, I'll wait until it's a bit closer
Second old guy: isn't Green Lake Hut close enough to be concerned? The truth is, you might pass anyone's in the street who's infectious, no matter where you are.
Old guy: so you've been jabbed, what side effects did you have?
Second old guy: week, my arm was sore for a few days, just like with any other vaccine.
Iong pause.....
Old guy: you, well, I might just go and get that done, then.
Probably low hanging misinformed fruit on the anti vax scale, but still, worth it.
This quiet, straight forward very low key convo is really, really nice. I am glad it cut through some mild level scepticism. It doesn't need to be "argey argey" :P
Thank you for outing yet another textbook example of a white, male, hysterical “snowflake” - the only thing that term would apply to more is a literal snowflake. WTAF this cockwomble really should have googled you before writing this hit piece on himself for you 🤦♀️
Yeah - it really did just scream white privilege again. It's all the fucking same. *pounds head into wall* :P
Thank you! I loved this! Yea let's push back. I am 'friends' with a fairly well known musician and he just this morning sent me a hideous rant about the PM on FB messenger. I responded with an expose piece about the racist RW arsehole and told him to check his fear metre and apply his brain. For every utter mad load of conspiracy theory crap he sends, I now have access to good logical responses, thanks to you and people like you. X but this stuff still breaks my heart on a daily basis.
It's sad when creatives go down these paths. Not the right battle to pick.
This may bring you some joy from some wellness anti-vaxxers - who are very quick to claim they are not being anti-vax (always the case): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWLGTB0coec
😳 Thank you for that, it is almost comedic.... The level of stupid and self centredness is gobsmacking. Jordan is great!
PS. the rant he sent me was a Joe Rogan one, apologies for lack of context.
Oof. That says it all. Joe and his fans can get in the bin.
Great read, and happy you're back to feeling yourself. How lovely to see a Coyote in the early hours.
Malcolm triggered my sleaze radar, especially with his last note "I spent 13 years as a litigator and miss the ‘argey argey’ of the bar from time to time", that must have had you quaking, lol. I'm so curious by his family dynamic, he certainly gives the impression of a typical child of parents that had to work hard to get where they are and had enough success to raise a spoiled prat that takes too much for granted. His parents are vaccinated yet he decided it wasn't for him. His Dad, too rightly, didn't want the family name to be associated with Malcolm's drivel and I just can't help wondering what his father thinks of all this now? Malcolm seems thrilled he is getting enough attention that he can flex his argey muscles but I can't imagine his father is impressed? I agree with RachelB, gross that these types use the guise of legitimate media to reel in readers, but shame on those that stay and feel the desire to donate.
Thanks for the read.
I was so excited to book tickets to fly into LA for work, arriving on New Years Eve, but realise I arrive a few hours too late and will miss your show at The Wiltern with Dax and Monica. Sure it will be an awesome one :)
Hey! Advanced welcome to LA! Sorry you miss the show - I can try and put a tee shirt aside?!
And yes - the sleaze radar sounded, for sure. I call it "entitled white" - it really is a tone that shines through loud and fucking clear!
Ah David you are the coolest nicest dude, thank you, but no, I feel like I didn't earn the right for a T-shirt! I don't want to take one from someone that actually made it to the show, theres nothing better than having that shirt you got at a great show as a reminder each time you put it on. Plus, my awesome webworm shirt will be arriving any day now. Hope your furniture situation has improved, and thanks again for the fucking awesome gesture, you rock.
Ah, you understand the joys / significance of gig tees - thankyou. Or I should say some audience member will say thank you! Travel safe please. Glad some WW is heading to you!
And shouldn’t it be “argy-bargy”?! What is ‘argey argey’??! Never heard of it! Is it the new Quinoa? 🤩
LOL 😆 Yes it should be, but apparently if you're an arrogant prat only interested in the sound of your own voice it becomes "argey argey" :)
Glad to hear you’re feeling better, David. I’m reading this in bed (Saturday morning here) with one cat sitting on my pillow and the other directly on my chest glaring at me to put the phone down and get them breakfast. I should probably go and do that, but just wanted to say thanks for the read!
THIS IS THE PERFECT WEBWORM READING SETUP AND IT WARMS MY COLD HEART!
I’m also reading from bed! With my two purring bookends on either side
YOU ARE ALSO DOING WEBWORM RIGHT!!! Pat those purring idiots for me x
Great read over my morning coffee, thanks David. Sites like these make me yearn for the sudden demise of the internet. But then....saved by the AI art tool! (Hope you are feeling better).
Please plug some stuff into that AI art tool - it's a lot of fun, and works in a variety of styles! Happy breakfast. Like that this was your reading material to accompany it. Cheers.
I was wondering why you were aiming your criticism at Michael Dreaneen when the email was written by Malcolm (by the looks of it his son with a couple of shares in the company) but then I got waylaid by the AI art tool and made a fantasy cats sleeping pic. It's no wonder I'm referred to as seven second Sue. Anyway, great article as always. Cheers..
Just read another version of your webworm where he is referred to as Malcolm throughout.
I very dumb mistake on my behalf! Sorry for the confusion. It's Malcolm all the way down.
Of course, I immediately went and put "Jabcinda" into the AI art tool as soon as I'd finished reading the piece...with hilarious results...
Main stream media most definitely covering Ghislaine Maxwell. Front page of NY Times most days right now. These idiots are very wearying.
It. Is. Everywhere.
Maddening response to reality from this crowd. It really is.