Dammit I actually found some of this quite triggering, and I'm not someone inclined to say that. In my professional life I have spent far to much time apologizing for Christians who perpetuate this kind of shit. Not in the sense of excusing them, because there is no excuse for hating anyone and mistreating them for being who they innately are. I'm sorry that some people take an ancient text and misuse it to promote their hate of people who are often incredibly vulnerable. This is religion at its worst. And I can say that because I am an Anglican priest. I don't hate religion, but I really hate religion being used in this way! I believe that religion can be an incredible force for good, it has been in my life...but that is really called into question when people, like those at Bethlehem College, have distorted religion in such a heinous way.
Today I'm not going to do my knee jerk, "not all Christians are like these dickheads", kind of comment. Sadly there are lots of people just like these dickheads out there. It is inexcusable in this day and age to to treat anyone how this school has treated children!!! Thank you David for continuing to shine a light! No one should ever have to endure the kind of homophobia (or any kind of hate) that was rampant when I was at school.
Hmmmm. You seem like a nice man. Also the first priest I have ever heard use the word "dickhead". I could have a beer with you. Not that you'd have one with me, but still.
No need to apologise here. Reading this, I had a flashback of my ex-pastor ranting about this community (along with so many hatefilled targeting others) and how the tribulation was coming because of this. Thankfully we've escaped but it leaves a deep wound.
It’s worse than that. He’s saying the school is under witch hunt conditions but it ready and willing to sweep everything under the rug if the parents support doing so.
It’s a world class letter, if you’re a comic book villain.
Seriously, they need to be actually threatened with the funding pulled and then have him removed + consultants come in and overhaul the entire thing. I cannot believe your taxes are paying for hate.
Ps. What does ‘special character’ mean in NZ? It read like ‘well, since we are God’s children im sure we will get a pass. Fucking heathens.’
I'd be so curious what it would take to actually get the funding pulled. The Ministry of Education is so wishy washy on all this shit. And so of course BC wades in, feeling petulant and empowered.
As for special character? In this case it essentially means "private school, but we want taxpayer money still kthnx!"
I think generally there is a lack of transparency around issues of funding, and what is paid for by the state, and the schools' responsibilities to all members of the community. This gets even more confusing when you start to introduce charter schools into the mix. My limited understanding is that integration agreements mean that the Crown effectively takes on the biggest school expense - the teachers' salaries - but the schools manage property and other expenses. The special character of each school is outlined in the agreement but it shouldn't conflict with the State's own priorities regarding inclusion and Te Tiriti. Many of these schools simply would not be able to survive financially if they were truly private schools, and had to pay their teachers' salaries. Some school fees in state integrated schools are very high, which means that, to parents, they can seem like a private school even if they are not. Some of the more conservative parents may advocate for policies that represent a version of Christianity that is quite harmful. I have seen this become stressful for leaders who must maintain an inclusive learning environment and balance the demands of the parental population who feel personally invested in their interpretation of the special character of the school. Instances like this show what happens when school leaders have limited respect for the integration agreement which clearly requires them to adhere to national priorities (like, you know, being inclusive).
It basically means the school operates in some manner that's significantly different to mainstream schools or kura. It includes religious-based schools, but also ones with different teaching philosophies/methods like Ao Tawhiti in Christchurch.
Significant defunding of a state-integrated school would best be done by converting it to a private school. Schedule 6 (clauses 11-14) of the Education and Training Act 2020 (see https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0038/latest/LMS176174.html) deals with the cancellation of a state-integrated school’s integration agreement where the Minister (cl 12), the proprietor (cl 13), or both (cl 14), can agree to begin a consultation process that could result in the integration agreement being cancelled. Once the integration agreement is cancelled the school may become a private school and the proprietor can choose to close it or mostly fund it privately. Note that private schools in Aotearoa-New Zealand all get some government funding per student from the Private School Subsidy Funding pool (https://www.education.govt.nz/school/funding-and-financials/resourcing/private-schools-resourcing-information/) but this is much less than the state-integrated schools get.
There is no way any Minister of Education of the current government would activate clause 12 on any state-integrated school but this could be something a Green or Labour MP works on in preparation for when the left is next in Government. I think judging whether "it appears to the Minister on reasonable grounds that the proprietor or the board of the State integrated school is not sufficiently carrying out its functions and obligations under this Act or under the integration agreement" would be difficult and would require a lot more evidence than has been gathered to date.
David, can you ask ERO what "A further report will be published on ERO’s website in due course." means? In particular, when is the next review planned for? And how are they going to assess progress made (if any) on the "Next Steps"? And what/how much evidence would be required for the Minister to be able to activate clause 12 on Bethlehem College or any other state-integrated school?
So of course the Inquisitor in Chief writes to the parents and has a waaaaah. The parents are the problem. If the ERO had any teeth whateve it would turn off the one thing that religions get turned on by: money. Shut the fucker down, give the money to proper schools that really need it. My personal view is that the separation of church and state must be absolute and state integration for religious zealots has never and will never work. I dont care what flavour they are. .... aaaaanyway, how about that local sports team?
I'm pretty sure private schools in NZ still receive a decent amount of tax payer funding. I don't know if it's the same amount as public schools but is decided by the roll, same as public.
I don't imagine that a rightwing government will put pressure on any Christian school that is a breeding ground for elitist future party members and MPs to abandon their "unique character."
In fact, even the allegedly Labor govt did nothing during their time in power to bring the rabid Christians to heel.
If I were you David, I'd be happy Bethlehem College refuse to interact with you. I'm sure any current students who are being told they'll go to eternal damnation will already be aware of Webworm, and will find the support they need outside of their closed school/church/families.
Thanks Mandy - I think it's an example of how these institutions generally work, in NZ and elsewhere - so hoping awareness just brings a growing anger and urgent need for CHANGE.
This is the kind of school that will be very relieved with ACT’s education proposals around Charter Schools. David Seymour has long had a mission to break up State schooling in NZ. Reinstating these schools is one of the policy agreements in the new coalition government. Under his purview Bethlehem College and schools like it, could apply to become ‘partnership’ schools where they receive government funding but are subject to fewer rules and regulation from the MoE. I believe that fundamental Christian schools are the real target of these policies. A tonne of money to be made.
ERO needs to take over the school put in a statutory manager. There is no other way to bring about change that is necessary to keep the student safe.
I’m hoping your report gets spread far and wide, so the school can’t hide and changes forced upon them
Remember people that the ministry of education deals with school, not the government directly so change can happen without the direction of the government. I hope the ministry understands its responsibility to make change immediately.
Many years ago we had a really strong ERO leader. She had strong opinions and she got shit sorted out really quickly but school communities didn’t like her sorting things out so they got rid of her
We definitely need strong, independent public servants otherwise these things drag on so long as you have seen with the school At the moment there is too much emphasis on bending over backwards, waiting for schools to get their act together, rather than saying no this is not acceptable put it right now
Do you happen to remember who the strong ERO leader was or approximately when she was in charge? When I was a child I was in a school that was on the verge of getting "sorted out" but, if I remember correctly, the person doing the sorting out was moved along before they could accomplish much.
I went to similar schools (didn't go to a non-Catholic school until my first Masters) and the worst part is not realizing how much you don't know or how bad it is until years and years later. I'm in my mid thirties and there are still moments where I realize I don't know something very very basic about, say, my own body. My high school was pretty progressive on matters, the only thing that felt very actively stigmatizing was the dress code and its enforcement, but I still can't think of a single kid who was out until we got to college. And I'd say we were a good school! It's just all very, very disappointing and I feel for all the students there.
Those poor, poor kids. Being stuck in that school, with parents who agree with the administration, and having nowhere to go for empathy and truthful answers to big questions. And no end to that bullshit in sight.
Their ‘special character is highly in question………..something about ya can’t put a daisy in an arsehole and call it a vase comes to mind or something like that……
Oh my. If this is the case, there are many, many, many little pieces of my soul all over NZ, Australia, and the world. Which is quite beautiful, when you think about it...
If you combine this with the Harry Potter world theory of souls, splitting your soul is a way to achieve immortality, so you're effectively creating an immortality cooperative by having sex :)
I've been wondering what the set-up-by-the-same-crowd "Bethlehem Tertiary Institute" teaches in its teaching, counselling and social work degrees. And then where those graduates are working - and the damage they may be doing.
Yes. Counsellors trained by the Bethlehem Tertiary Institute are endorsed by the New Zealand Association of Counsellors, which is the main (self-regulating) body in NZ. Some questions may need asking here.
Apologies for the broken link to the report! It's fixed above, and here it is also:
https://ero.govt.nz/institution/77/bethlehem-college
Thanks for that David. I’m left asking, Whose attitude is the Christian one? Not Bethlehem’s!
Dammit I actually found some of this quite triggering, and I'm not someone inclined to say that. In my professional life I have spent far to much time apologizing for Christians who perpetuate this kind of shit. Not in the sense of excusing them, because there is no excuse for hating anyone and mistreating them for being who they innately are. I'm sorry that some people take an ancient text and misuse it to promote their hate of people who are often incredibly vulnerable. This is religion at its worst. And I can say that because I am an Anglican priest. I don't hate religion, but I really hate religion being used in this way! I believe that religion can be an incredible force for good, it has been in my life...but that is really called into question when people, like those at Bethlehem College, have distorted religion in such a heinous way.
Today I'm not going to do my knee jerk, "not all Christians are like these dickheads", kind of comment. Sadly there are lots of people just like these dickheads out there. It is inexcusable in this day and age to to treat anyone how this school has treated children!!! Thank you David for continuing to shine a light! No one should ever have to endure the kind of homophobia (or any kind of hate) that was rampant when I was at school.
You're awesome, Richard. Thanks for just stepping back and going "f this".
Of course there are wonderful Christians, but at times I think it's useful to say "f this" instead of repeating that line.
Appreciated.
Hmmmm. You seem like a nice man. Also the first priest I have ever heard use the word "dickhead". I could have a beer with you. Not that you'd have one with me, but still.
Oh, I don't know about that.....a beer's a beer. Priests don't have to be teetotal, do they?
Definitely not!
The priest who celebrated my wedding was partial to a wee dram of Chivas Regal.
Well, he had bloody good taste, didn't he? On all accounts :))
No need to apologise here. Reading this, I had a flashback of my ex-pastor ranting about this community (along with so many hatefilled targeting others) and how the tribulation was coming because of this. Thankfully we've escaped but it leaves a deep wound.
It’s worse than that. He’s saying the school is under witch hunt conditions but it ready and willing to sweep everything under the rug if the parents support doing so.
It’s a world class letter, if you’re a comic book villain.
Seriously, they need to be actually threatened with the funding pulled and then have him removed + consultants come in and overhaul the entire thing. I cannot believe your taxes are paying for hate.
Ps. What does ‘special character’ mean in NZ? It read like ‘well, since we are God’s children im sure we will get a pass. Fucking heathens.’
I'd be so curious what it would take to actually get the funding pulled. The Ministry of Education is so wishy washy on all this shit. And so of course BC wades in, feeling petulant and empowered.
As for special character? In this case it essentially means "private school, but we want taxpayer money still kthnx!"
I think generally there is a lack of transparency around issues of funding, and what is paid for by the state, and the schools' responsibilities to all members of the community. This gets even more confusing when you start to introduce charter schools into the mix. My limited understanding is that integration agreements mean that the Crown effectively takes on the biggest school expense - the teachers' salaries - but the schools manage property and other expenses. The special character of each school is outlined in the agreement but it shouldn't conflict with the State's own priorities regarding inclusion and Te Tiriti. Many of these schools simply would not be able to survive financially if they were truly private schools, and had to pay their teachers' salaries. Some school fees in state integrated schools are very high, which means that, to parents, they can seem like a private school even if they are not. Some of the more conservative parents may advocate for policies that represent a version of Christianity that is quite harmful. I have seen this become stressful for leaders who must maintain an inclusive learning environment and balance the demands of the parental population who feel personally invested in their interpretation of the special character of the school. Instances like this show what happens when school leaders have limited respect for the integration agreement which clearly requires them to adhere to national priorities (like, you know, being inclusive).
My thoughts are here: https://www.webworm.co/p/bethlehemcollegefailsmiserably/comment/48647976
It basically means the school operates in some manner that's significantly different to mainstream schools or kura. It includes religious-based schools, but also ones with different teaching philosophies/methods like Ao Tawhiti in Christchurch.
Strong agree! Well put.
Bloody Hell it's 2024 not 1824 ..........
These places should not get taxpayer money. It's embarassing.
Umm, you HAVE seen the political landscape in Aotearoa lately....?
Significant defunding of a state-integrated school would best be done by converting it to a private school. Schedule 6 (clauses 11-14) of the Education and Training Act 2020 (see https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0038/latest/LMS176174.html) deals with the cancellation of a state-integrated school’s integration agreement where the Minister (cl 12), the proprietor (cl 13), or both (cl 14), can agree to begin a consultation process that could result in the integration agreement being cancelled. Once the integration agreement is cancelled the school may become a private school and the proprietor can choose to close it or mostly fund it privately. Note that private schools in Aotearoa-New Zealand all get some government funding per student from the Private School Subsidy Funding pool (https://www.education.govt.nz/school/funding-and-financials/resourcing/private-schools-resourcing-information/) but this is much less than the state-integrated schools get.
There is no way any Minister of Education of the current government would activate clause 12 on any state-integrated school but this could be something a Green or Labour MP works on in preparation for when the left is next in Government. I think judging whether "it appears to the Minister on reasonable grounds that the proprietor or the board of the State integrated school is not sufficiently carrying out its functions and obligations under this Act or under the integration agreement" would be difficult and would require a lot more evidence than has been gathered to date.
David, can you ask ERO what "A further report will be published on ERO’s website in due course." means? In particular, when is the next review planned for? And how are they going to assess progress made (if any) on the "Next Steps"? And what/how much evidence would be required for the Minister to be able to activate clause 12 on Bethlehem College or any other state-integrated school?
That’s what I was processing in my brain space. It is embarrassing . It’s also ethically and morally dodgy AF.
So of course the Inquisitor in Chief writes to the parents and has a waaaaah. The parents are the problem. If the ERO had any teeth whateve it would turn off the one thing that religions get turned on by: money. Shut the fucker down, give the money to proper schools that really need it. My personal view is that the separation of church and state must be absolute and state integration for religious zealots has never and will never work. I dont care what flavour they are. .... aaaaanyway, how about that local sports team?
They may consider becoming fully private, teach whatever they want and not receiving public money … just kidding
Greedy - fancy that?
none of them should. This thread made me wonder about that other beacon of Christian enlightenment - Gloriavale. Not only are they an "integrated" school, they're also doing a shit job of it AND getting taxpayer money: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/501317/gloriavale-school-not-providing-an-adequate-education-ero#:~:text=Gloriavale%20is%20an%20isolated%20Christian,school%20has%20139%20enrolled%20students.
Gloriavale is technically private, but as the ERO report states, it is doing a shit job of being a private school.
https://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/find-school/school/profile?school=1587
I'm pretty sure private schools in NZ still receive a decent amount of tax payer funding. I don't know if it's the same amount as public schools but is decided by the roll, same as public.
I don't imagine that a rightwing government will put pressure on any Christian school that is a breeding ground for elitist future party members and MPs to abandon their "unique character."
In fact, even the allegedly Labor govt did nothing during their time in power to bring the rabid Christians to heel.
If I were you David, I'd be happy Bethlehem College refuse to interact with you. I'm sure any current students who are being told they'll go to eternal damnation will already be aware of Webworm, and will find the support they need outside of their closed school/church/families.
Thanks Mike - I kinda agree with you there. I hope some students DO read this, and see there's another way.
Thank you David for continuing to keep track of this, even though there are zero surprises.
Thanks Mandy - I think it's an example of how these institutions generally work, in NZ and elsewhere - so hoping awareness just brings a growing anger and urgent need for CHANGE.
#DefundBethlehem
My thoughts are here: https://www.webworm.co/p/bethlehemcollegefailsmiserably/comment/48647976
This is the kind of school that will be very relieved with ACT’s education proposals around Charter Schools. David Seymour has long had a mission to break up State schooling in NZ. Reinstating these schools is one of the policy agreements in the new coalition government. Under his purview Bethlehem College and schools like it, could apply to become ‘partnership’ schools where they receive government funding but are subject to fewer rules and regulation from the MoE. I believe that fundamental Christian schools are the real target of these policies. A tonne of money to be made.
ERO needs to take over the school put in a statutory manager. There is no other way to bring about change that is necessary to keep the student safe.
I’m hoping your report gets spread far and wide, so the school can’t hide and changes forced upon them
Remember people that the ministry of education deals with school, not the government directly so change can happen without the direction of the government. I hope the ministry understands its responsibility to make change immediately.
The ERO seems so, so incredibly weak.
They've been utterly useless to deal with, too. I had already sent this newsletter out when they decided to email me going "Oh, it's out".
Utterly, utterly useless. In my humble opinion.
Many years ago we had a really strong ERO leader. She had strong opinions and she got shit sorted out really quickly but school communities didn’t like her sorting things out so they got rid of her
We definitely need strong, independent public servants otherwise these things drag on so long as you have seen with the school At the moment there is too much emphasis on bending over backwards, waiting for schools to get their act together, rather than saying no this is not acceptable put it right now
Do you happen to remember who the strong ERO leader was or approximately when she was in charge? When I was a child I was in a school that was on the verge of getting "sorted out" but, if I remember correctly, the person doing the sorting out was moved along before they could accomplish much.
I think it was Dr Judith Aiken. She was there from 1992 for about 10 years there a NZ Herald. Article titled last reports for ERO chief
Hmm it must have been a regional leader who got moved along then, as the one I'm thinking of would have been around 1998.
I went to similar schools (didn't go to a non-Catholic school until my first Masters) and the worst part is not realizing how much you don't know or how bad it is until years and years later. I'm in my mid thirties and there are still moments where I realize I don't know something very very basic about, say, my own body. My high school was pretty progressive on matters, the only thing that felt very actively stigmatizing was the dress code and its enforcement, but I still can't think of a single kid who was out until we got to college. And I'd say we were a good school! It's just all very, very disappointing and I feel for all the students there.
Those poor, poor kids. Being stuck in that school, with parents who agree with the administration, and having nowhere to go for empathy and truthful answers to big questions. And no end to that bullshit in sight.
Their ‘special character is highly in question………..something about ya can’t put a daisy in an arsehole and call it a vase comes to mind or something like that……
well, you could, but it would be a (wait for it)..... shitty vase.
Oh my. If this is the case, there are many, many, many little pieces of my soul all over NZ, Australia, and the world. Which is quite beautiful, when you think about it...
RIP ur soul
Conversely, then I'm carrying about tiny pieces of many, many, many other peoples souls. Which... does make me feel a little weird 🤣
If you combine this with the Harry Potter world theory of souls, splitting your soul is a way to achieve immortality, so you're effectively creating an immortality cooperative by having sex :)
AMAZING 😍🤣
👏💕😄
I've been wondering what the set-up-by-the-same-crowd "Bethlehem Tertiary Institute" teaches in its teaching, counselling and social work degrees. And then where those graduates are working - and the damage they may be doing.
Yes. Counsellors trained by the Bethlehem Tertiary Institute are endorsed by the New Zealand Association of Counsellors, which is the main (self-regulating) body in NZ. Some questions may need asking here.
There is no place in education for bigotry.
I think it’s important to remember the words Jesus spoke if you are going to call yourself a Christian.
Jesus promotes love and loving thy neighbour. He didn’t say love thy neighbour unless they are fornicators or gay.
I’m not Christian because I was brought up one. Because of the hypocrisy of religion and because I have read the Bible. It’s ridiculous.
If they want to teach Christian values they should do it using Christian money. Not taxpayer money.