I’m all about a healthy distrust of government and the wealthy but vaccines are absolutely badass. I’ll never understand the antivaxxer view, mainly in part to the amount of efficiency they give any government organisations in their fantasy.
There’s a post in one of the Australian protest groups which has gone viral due to how funny and insane it is. The protesters there are convinced that they’re being hit with blow darts filled with Moderna because they’re feeling bee stings but can’t see any bees. If you haven’t seen it I’ll email it to you, it’s next level.
We've got a bunch of billionaires in this world. A bunch of them are into rockets, this one is into vaccines which is an improvement. I hope we get one as motivated to solve the systemic problems that create billionaires in the first place.
So I'm a microbiologist. In early Feb 2020, newly graduated from my doctorate I went to a conference in Australia. At the time, cases of COVID-19 were starting to increase in China, and the WHO was saying travel bans are mainly racist and unhelpful (oh, the joys of hindsight). Anyway, at this conference there was a session on COVID-19 and I heard from experts around Australia re their responses. One group who develops vaccines was ~3 months into a 5 year project designed to prepare for "disease X" including developing a vaccine for this unknown disease. The exercise was to help plan for as well as practice the process of rapid vaccine development. What ended up happening was COVID-19 became "disease X". The point is, multiple teams of immunologists, epidemiologists and microbiologists around the world have been researching infectious diseases and pandemics since well before the general public; we've already experienced multiple pandemics of coronaviruses (SARS-CoV-1 in 2004 and MERS 2012) so it's absolutely baffling to me that the tabletop exercise got picked up on.
Having said that over the weekend in Wellington there was a tropical storm in Wellington called Cyclone Dovi and I saw multiple threads where protestors/conspiracy nuts thought that the name of the cyclone (C. Dovi) being an anagram for COVID meant that the Govt. must be causing the weather to give them all COVID-19.
I've spent a lot of time thinking about anti-vaxxers and their motivations, since before the pandemic when NZ had a couple of measles outbreaks and parents still didn't want to vaccinate their children. Honestly, NZ's vaccination rates being so high has really impressed me. And I've also found comfort in reading about historical pandemics (all the way back to Roman times) and the first outbreaks of smallpox where people discovered variolation (similar to immunisation, but involved grinding up a smallpox pustule and exposing it to healthy people to prevent them getting sick) - even then there were anti-vaxxers.
Thanks for posting this snippet of conversation, it's really interesting to have some insight into how Bill thinks about these things.
Daft question maybe, but hey are you wearing a hat, inside, on stage?
I can easily sort out Bill's moral dilemma: give $129 billion back to the world that he, his peers and their inventions are deeply involved with destroying. National Parks, Rewilding schemes, Sea Shepherd, WWF, Sierra Club, Greenpeace - the organisations working to undo all the harm that we have done. Restoring nature would be infinitely cheaper and more effective than his technological fixes and provide more jobs for ordinary people, who aren't super educated and privileged. I'm sure he could manage on the billion orDaft question maybe, but hey are you wearing a hat, inside, on stage?
I can easily sort out Bill's moral dilemma: give $129 billion back to the world that he, his peers and their inventions are deeply involved with destroying. National Parks, Rewilding schemes, Sea Shepherd, WWF, Sierra Club, Greenpeace - the organisations working to undo all the harm that we have done. Restoring nature would be infinitely cheaper and more effective than his technological fixes and provide more jobs for ordinary people, who aren't super educated and privileged. I'm sure he could manage on the billion or so he has left.
On one hand, I fully understand the fact that our world (and the US especially) has an issue with wealth hoarding that cannot be ignored. It’s deplorable in almost every case. However, it’s harder for me to feel that way towards Bill Gates; he’s one of the most (if not the most) important philanthropist of my lifetime, maybe even of all time. In many cases he is using his money for good, not personal flights to outer space.The conversation about wealth definitely becomes more nuanced conversation when you are also recognizing the massive amounts of public good being done — it’s complicated!
Before the episode, I didn’t have too many feelings about Bill Gates one way or the other. But actually hearing him talk about his experiences and his feelings was really enlightening. The skeptic in me says he’s had decades to prepare for hardball questions and public scrutiny, and has the money to hire the best PR people in the world — not surprising that he comes off as so humble and genuine. At the same time, you could say the same thing about Bezos, and that man is almost universally despised. So there’s something to be said for Gates’ approach!
Hearing him just talk and joke with you guys like any other guest really humanized him, and I was really impressed by his general outlook. I really appreciated his perspective when Dax asked about his feelings getting hurt — while we’re not all Bill Gates, I think there’s something very admirable about that kind of outlook. Overall, many of us have it pretty good in life, maybe more than we always appreciate or acknowledge.
Great episode, super impressed that you guys managed to pull Bill Gates, of all people!
It wasn't you that said it, but as a scientist it does bug me when someone says "Shot of dopamine". This statement is often rooted in the idea that Dopamine = Pleasure, which is 30+ year old science & incorrect.
Wow the visualisation of his wrath is mind blowing! It made me wonder, if he gave a million dollars to every person he meets, for the rest of his life, would that even get through it all…? Probably not!
As billionaires go, Bill and his foundation do substantially more good than most. Although the bar is so low others like Bezos and Musk seem to be having a limbo competition with the devil.
The Gates foundation pressured Oxford to reverse their decision of making AstraZeneca a patent-free vaccine. He doesn't trust the global south to make their own vaccines and instead believes the greatest good will come from a monopoly of vaccine creators which are divvied up by the pharma giants.
Gates has done good things but he is not a good person.
Feb 13, 2022·edited Feb 13, 2022Liked by David Farrier
It makes sense to me he wants to talk about the conspiracy theories against him now considering the other recent news items about him are his history of sexual harassment, his ties to Jeffrey Epstein and his divorce from Melinda.
I think anyone on here agrees vaccines are amazing, I don't think we need to harp on it. My question is, do you think the conspiracy theories against these billionaires are something they really care to dispel? I've seen tons of news coverage about the protestors of vaccines/mask mandates in NZ and very little about Thiel's proposed developments on Lake Wanaka. And I have certainly noticed an uptick in my partner's family in NZ or acquaintances posting Ayn Rand quotes/memes. If the average person goes down some insane rabbit hole, doesn't it keep people from reading or giving a shit about the Pandora Papers? (Side note: also a very incredible journalistic feat).
Also, I just want to give some more credit to the ex-wives, Melinda French Gates, and Bezo's ex-wife, Mackenzie Scott who I really think are doing incredible things with their wealth. Mackenzie's Medium is really good and I have to say, I do love that she married their son's science teacher.
You're great, David and everyone appreciates your research on these items. I do wish we had just gotten a bit more of you in the podcast. Also, I was trying to figure out if Mr. Clippy was the real name of the paperclip (I couldn't remember when I made a comment a few days ago referring to lil' dude) and realized I was googling Mr. Chippy....yikes.
I didn't realise you were in the US David. What a grea experience to meet and talk with Gates and get a sense of his genuine hopes for society. Another great webworm and thank you for referencing the protests here in New Zealand. It is very distressing.
Feb 14, 2022·edited Feb 15, 2022Liked by David Farrier
When you talk about Bill Gates' PR prep, another description of it is that coined (i think) by Anand Ghiridardas in his book "Winners Take All" : Reputation Laundering. I.e. make your obscene profits using whatever methods make the most, then clean your image by giving some of it away preferably on do-good projects.
As others have mentioned, Gates may be on the nicer end, then we have Musk, Bezos, Thiel, Zuckerberg, Koch bros, Sackler family etc. etc.
This enormous concentration of wealth, obtained at the expense of public good, that is then deployed at an individuals whim is toxic to democracy at all levels.
I'll finish with a favourite quote from William Gibson "“And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.”
I also love the Bill Gates (and Steve Jobs et al) gave the world computers, and the internet, and all that stuff. It's awesome. But now, it appears to be biting him in his proverbials.
Wow, having Mr Gates turn up for a chat!?? That is SO next level!!!! Frankly he terrifies me - the wealth he has is frightening in itself and what he could do with that wealth if he chose is to end world hunger and illness - some of which he is doing with vaccine supports. If he gave everyone on the planet $200K, he would still be filthy stinking rich. So that makes me somewhat hesitant to like, or even trust, someone in that category. But to turn him into the anti-Christ is just, well, too easy. Let's face it. And based in utter unreality. There are so many other things to be scared of re very rich people but the crud being spouted by the conspiracy theorists is clearly self serving. Its the whole "I wanna throw a giant tantrum and get loads of attention, let's try this!!" Totally does my head in.
I’m all about a healthy distrust of government and the wealthy but vaccines are absolutely badass. I’ll never understand the antivaxxer view, mainly in part to the amount of efficiency they give any government organisations in their fantasy.
There’s a post in one of the Australian protest groups which has gone viral due to how funny and insane it is. The protesters there are convinced that they’re being hit with blow darts filled with Moderna because they’re feeling bee stings but can’t see any bees. If you haven’t seen it I’ll email it to you, it’s next level.
We've got a bunch of billionaires in this world. A bunch of them are into rockets, this one is into vaccines which is an improvement. I hope we get one as motivated to solve the systemic problems that create billionaires in the first place.
So I'm a microbiologist. In early Feb 2020, newly graduated from my doctorate I went to a conference in Australia. At the time, cases of COVID-19 were starting to increase in China, and the WHO was saying travel bans are mainly racist and unhelpful (oh, the joys of hindsight). Anyway, at this conference there was a session on COVID-19 and I heard from experts around Australia re their responses. One group who develops vaccines was ~3 months into a 5 year project designed to prepare for "disease X" including developing a vaccine for this unknown disease. The exercise was to help plan for as well as practice the process of rapid vaccine development. What ended up happening was COVID-19 became "disease X". The point is, multiple teams of immunologists, epidemiologists and microbiologists around the world have been researching infectious diseases and pandemics since well before the general public; we've already experienced multiple pandemics of coronaviruses (SARS-CoV-1 in 2004 and MERS 2012) so it's absolutely baffling to me that the tabletop exercise got picked up on.
Having said that over the weekend in Wellington there was a tropical storm in Wellington called Cyclone Dovi and I saw multiple threads where protestors/conspiracy nuts thought that the name of the cyclone (C. Dovi) being an anagram for COVID meant that the Govt. must be causing the weather to give them all COVID-19.
I've spent a lot of time thinking about anti-vaxxers and their motivations, since before the pandemic when NZ had a couple of measles outbreaks and parents still didn't want to vaccinate their children. Honestly, NZ's vaccination rates being so high has really impressed me. And I've also found comfort in reading about historical pandemics (all the way back to Roman times) and the first outbreaks of smallpox where people discovered variolation (similar to immunisation, but involved grinding up a smallpox pustule and exposing it to healthy people to prevent them getting sick) - even then there were anti-vaxxers.
Thanks for posting this snippet of conversation, it's really interesting to have some insight into how Bill thinks about these things.
Daft question maybe, but hey are you wearing a hat, inside, on stage?
I can easily sort out Bill's moral dilemma: give $129 billion back to the world that he, his peers and their inventions are deeply involved with destroying. National Parks, Rewilding schemes, Sea Shepherd, WWF, Sierra Club, Greenpeace - the organisations working to undo all the harm that we have done. Restoring nature would be infinitely cheaper and more effective than his technological fixes and provide more jobs for ordinary people, who aren't super educated and privileged. I'm sure he could manage on the billion orDaft question maybe, but hey are you wearing a hat, inside, on stage?
I can easily sort out Bill's moral dilemma: give $129 billion back to the world that he, his peers and their inventions are deeply involved with destroying. National Parks, Rewilding schemes, Sea Shepherd, WWF, Sierra Club, Greenpeace - the organisations working to undo all the harm that we have done. Restoring nature would be infinitely cheaper and more effective than his technological fixes and provide more jobs for ordinary people, who aren't super educated and privileged. I'm sure he could manage on the billion or so he has left.
On one hand, I fully understand the fact that our world (and the US especially) has an issue with wealth hoarding that cannot be ignored. It’s deplorable in almost every case. However, it’s harder for me to feel that way towards Bill Gates; he’s one of the most (if not the most) important philanthropist of my lifetime, maybe even of all time. In many cases he is using his money for good, not personal flights to outer space.The conversation about wealth definitely becomes more nuanced conversation when you are also recognizing the massive amounts of public good being done — it’s complicated!
Before the episode, I didn’t have too many feelings about Bill Gates one way or the other. But actually hearing him talk about his experiences and his feelings was really enlightening. The skeptic in me says he’s had decades to prepare for hardball questions and public scrutiny, and has the money to hire the best PR people in the world — not surprising that he comes off as so humble and genuine. At the same time, you could say the same thing about Bezos, and that man is almost universally despised. So there’s something to be said for Gates’ approach!
Hearing him just talk and joke with you guys like any other guest really humanized him, and I was really impressed by his general outlook. I really appreciated his perspective when Dax asked about his feelings getting hurt — while we’re not all Bill Gates, I think there’s something very admirable about that kind of outlook. Overall, many of us have it pretty good in life, maybe more than we always appreciate or acknowledge.
Great episode, super impressed that you guys managed to pull Bill Gates, of all people!
Let's have a competition to take Bill Gates' comments out of context. Here's my entry:
'Bill Gates, when talking about five million children dying: "that’s gone very well" '
It wasn't you that said it, but as a scientist it does bug me when someone says "Shot of dopamine". This statement is often rooted in the idea that Dopamine = Pleasure, which is 30+ year old science & incorrect.
Rather than me rant (anymore) here about an offhand comment that a lot of people make, if you are interested in reading more about where dopamine science has gone in the last 30 years you can check this out if you are interested https://www.gamedeveloper.com/disciplines/dopamine-and-games-liking-learning-or-wanting-to-play-
Wow the visualisation of his wrath is mind blowing! It made me wonder, if he gave a million dollars to every person he meets, for the rest of his life, would that even get through it all…? Probably not!
As billionaires go, Bill and his foundation do substantially more good than most. Although the bar is so low others like Bezos and Musk seem to be having a limbo competition with the devil.
The Gates foundation pressured Oxford to reverse their decision of making AstraZeneca a patent-free vaccine. He doesn't trust the global south to make their own vaccines and instead believes the greatest good will come from a monopoly of vaccine creators which are divvied up by the pharma giants.
Gates has done good things but he is not a good person.
https://newrepublic.com/article/162000/bill-gates-impeded-global-access-covid-vaccines
https://pluralistic.net/2021/04/13/public-interest-pharma/#gates-foundation
https://pluralistic.net/2021/11/28/somos-cuba/#omishambles
It makes sense to me he wants to talk about the conspiracy theories against him now considering the other recent news items about him are his history of sexual harassment, his ties to Jeffrey Epstein and his divorce from Melinda.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html
I think anyone on here agrees vaccines are amazing, I don't think we need to harp on it. My question is, do you think the conspiracy theories against these billionaires are something they really care to dispel? I've seen tons of news coverage about the protestors of vaccines/mask mandates in NZ and very little about Thiel's proposed developments on Lake Wanaka. And I have certainly noticed an uptick in my partner's family in NZ or acquaintances posting Ayn Rand quotes/memes. If the average person goes down some insane rabbit hole, doesn't it keep people from reading or giving a shit about the Pandora Papers? (Side note: also a very incredible journalistic feat).
https://www.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/
Also, I just want to give some more credit to the ex-wives, Melinda French Gates, and Bezo's ex-wife, Mackenzie Scott who I really think are doing incredible things with their wealth. Mackenzie's Medium is really good and I have to say, I do love that she married their son's science teacher.
You're great, David and everyone appreciates your research on these items. I do wish we had just gotten a bit more of you in the podcast. Also, I was trying to figure out if Mr. Clippy was the real name of the paperclip (I couldn't remember when I made a comment a few days ago referring to lil' dude) and realized I was googling Mr. Chippy....yikes.
https://mackenzie-scott.medium.com/
Interesting article and experience David.
Regardless of the science we are all benefiting from, l don't understand Gates and Pinker's association with Epstein and how to process it.
Really interesting column, lots to digest there.
As a side note, Mr Clippy was reimagined in a Star Trek - Lower Decks episode. Disaster ensues.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/star-trek-lower-decks-badgey-evil-microsoft-clippy/amp/
I didn't realise you were in the US David. What a grea experience to meet and talk with Gates and get a sense of his genuine hopes for society. Another great webworm and thank you for referencing the protests here in New Zealand. It is very distressing.
When you talk about Bill Gates' PR prep, another description of it is that coined (i think) by Anand Ghiridardas in his book "Winners Take All" : Reputation Laundering. I.e. make your obscene profits using whatever methods make the most, then clean your image by giving some of it away preferably on do-good projects.
Kim Hill talked to AG a couple of years ago: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018754514/anand-giridharadas-beware-of-billionaire-do-gooders
As others have mentioned, Gates may be on the nicer end, then we have Musk, Bezos, Thiel, Zuckerberg, Koch bros, Sackler family etc. etc.
This enormous concentration of wealth, obtained at the expense of public good, that is then deployed at an individuals whim is toxic to democracy at all levels.
I'll finish with a favourite quote from William Gibson "“And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.”
I also love the Bill Gates (and Steve Jobs et al) gave the world computers, and the internet, and all that stuff. It's awesome. But now, it appears to be biting him in his proverbials.
Wow, having Mr Gates turn up for a chat!?? That is SO next level!!!! Frankly he terrifies me - the wealth he has is frightening in itself and what he could do with that wealth if he chose is to end world hunger and illness - some of which he is doing with vaccine supports. If he gave everyone on the planet $200K, he would still be filthy stinking rich. So that makes me somewhat hesitant to like, or even trust, someone in that category. But to turn him into the anti-Christ is just, well, too easy. Let's face it. And based in utter unreality. There are so many other things to be scared of re very rich people but the crud being spouted by the conspiracy theorists is clearly self serving. Its the whole "I wanna throw a giant tantrum and get loads of attention, let's try this!!" Totally does my head in.