Preaching celibacy only to queer people is just another type of conversion therapy. And the underlying message is, we want queer people to suffer. Because denying yourself pleasure (either by yourself or with (an)other consenting adult(s)) is a form of torture, of self punishment.
The washing of christian fundamentalism through third party groups who then seek to influence and infiltrate our government and national institutions is a bit of a worry
The Bill allows “the expression of a belief or a religious principle made to an individual that is not intended to change or suppress the individual's sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression” but the Bill does NOT allow any practice directed "towards a person because of their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression;" and is "performed with the intention of changing or suppressing the individual's sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression."
One of the direct examples from the bill of a prohibited conversion practice “encouraging an individual to believe that their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression needs changing because it is a defect or disorder”
It is “an offence for a person, knowingly or recklessly, to perform conversion practice on a person under the age of 18 years or lacking decision-making capacity” so if any students in the Bethlehem College audience wanted to file a complaint over this, it would be interesting to see how the Courts viewed this.
From personal experience as a psychotherapist assisting many people who’ve endured religious conversion practices, implying that someone should be celibate if they are gay is backed by the threat of damnation and the best they can hope for is a lonely life devoid of romance and intimacy. People commit suicide faced with that hopeless prospect. https://lifeafterdogma.org/2020/06/30/hell-trauma/
Disturbing yet im not surprised. Im sad that im not surprised. It is unbearable to think of young people soaking up this level of shame or relegating themselves to celibacy (i know someone who has done this and i feel sad for him too). It appalls me as someone who believes in a loving God and I feel ashamed of the religion i have walked away from. Perhaps Jesus would too? I think so.
David Riddell. First I heard of this and disappointed. He used to be a truth teller, identifying toxic culture amongst churches which was for the most part, helpful. And training Christians (unqualified counsellors) to "counsel" their congregations through his Living Wisdom school. Unsure how beneficial unqualified counsellors really are.
The Parenting Place also has Christian associations. Since the Parenting Place gets a lot of government funding in various forms, would they not be held accountable for a watered down promotion along the lines of conversion therapy? Presumably funders are not aware of it, perhaps they might think again about funding something that has this kind of alliance or influence on staff?
Heart broken for young people in Aotearoa on the receiving end of all of this...
I decided to listen to this on my Monday commute even though I knew it'd make me angry and now particularly ikred being in the Maungakiekie electorate. But just before I arrived at work, it was a nice coincidence to see a huge rainbow above 😄
The church hasn’t learned anything new in 2000 years, their humble representatives in Bethlehem are unlikely to have done so in 20.
I do think they might be on to something though. If sexuality is only a fragment of your identity and can be (indeed should be) willingly suppressed, then surely their religious identity is also just a fraction of who they are and could be (indeed should be) firmly buried far from view, in order to find happiness, fulfilment, and a long life? If not necessarily for their own benefit than surely for ours?
One last question, why do the photos of christian educators and pastors all look the same? Di they all go to the same barber? Does the service to an abrahamic folly demand a perpetually vacuous smile?
I know that’s three, but I am suppressing my ability to perform basic arithmetic today,
Thank you for keeping the spotlight on these folks! The messaging at my youth group in church growing up in the 00s was the same - it's not a sin to be gay, but it *is* a sin to act on it and you must be celibate. "God doesn't give you a challenge you can't cop with" 🤢 Had a 'celibate gay christian' come into talk about it (including his 'promiscuous past' and how so many of his friends died of AIDS as 'divine punishment' for their 'lifestyle') and gave us all his book. That stuff sticks in your brain and fucks you up.
Ahh that crew.... heavy sigh. NZ is a small place and I know those names, and a quick search of the venn foundation showed exactly who I expected to see involved. They’re the Christian thinkers who pulled out of St Paul’s in Auckland and repackaged themselves in various ‘foundations’ which are think tanks associated with Laidlaw college.
Still busy exploring ideas and thinking hard about what Christianity can do for modern NZ society, and dissociating themselves from the more distasteful consequences that also pop up. That it feeds into candidates standing for political parties doesn’t surprise me in the least.
How discouraging 😞. Sam Bloore seems like a Grade A piece of garbage! Fully confident that this the way even though its so harmful to so many people! How does one seriously go through life like that? And they wonder why so many are leaving the church in the dust! Disappointing about the ERO review as well! Nothing like taking your sweet time, guys 😖!
Keep on shining a light on this, brave one ❤️. You're doing great work!
Heart this comment if the Church's sEx eDuCaTiOn (insistence on celibacy outside marriage) made you feel shit about sex and sexuality in a way that lasted well into your adulting years 🙋🏻♀️
It scares me because there’s no way these views aren’t going to seep through the national party despite what they say. They literally think they’re going to heaven for “helping”. These people are fucking nuts.
I knew the founding principal Brendan and his wife. Close friends often challenged him on this approach to sexuality. He was proudly stating this while at Sacred Heart as well. I also met catholic priests who had more compassion. Brendan and Jane were friends of me and my husband. Jane made my frock when I was a Drag Queen in Queen of the Whole Universe. And they came and enjoyed the show. He even got a kiss from me in Drag after. I hope he found some humanity later in life. It’s a shame that this rigidity still exists despite lived experience
Mind control is horrific. It’s torture. The CIA loved it. The depths that ‘Christians’ are prepared to plumb in pursuit of their twisted views enrages me. What incenses me even more is the conceit that they have some kind of divine right to mess with other people’s lives. Wouldn’t it be nice if crusaders of one kind or another could just enjoy whatever it is they like to do and leave the rest of us the hell alone to enjoy our own versions of reality?
Bethlehem College’s Message to Gay Students: “Be Celibate”
Preaching celibacy only to queer people is just another type of conversion therapy. And the underlying message is, we want queer people to suffer. Because denying yourself pleasure (either by yourself or with (an)other consenting adult(s)) is a form of torture, of self punishment.
The washing of christian fundamentalism through third party groups who then seek to influence and infiltrate our government and national institutions is a bit of a worry
P.S. obviously suppressing the sexuality of priests has worked so well for the catholic church they now want to export it to the laity
This is outrageous and recklessly risking harm toward queer students.
No wonder he was being cagey since, in my opinion, this is flirting awfully close to the line (if not crossing it) of breaching the NZ Conversion Practices Prohibition Act of 2022. https://www.parliament.nz/mi/get-involved/topics/all-current-topics/prohibiting-conversion-practices-in-new-zealand/
The Bill allows “the expression of a belief or a religious principle made to an individual that is not intended to change or suppress the individual's sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression” but the Bill does NOT allow any practice directed "towards a person because of their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression;" and is "performed with the intention of changing or suppressing the individual's sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression."
One of the direct examples from the bill of a prohibited conversion practice “encouraging an individual to believe that their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression needs changing because it is a defect or disorder”
It is “an offence for a person, knowingly or recklessly, to perform conversion practice on a person under the age of 18 years or lacking decision-making capacity” so if any students in the Bethlehem College audience wanted to file a complaint over this, it would be interesting to see how the Courts viewed this.
From personal experience as a psychotherapist assisting many people who’ve endured religious conversion practices, implying that someone should be celibate if they are gay is backed by the threat of damnation and the best they can hope for is a lonely life devoid of romance and intimacy. People commit suicide faced with that hopeless prospect. https://lifeafterdogma.org/2020/06/30/hell-trauma/
Disturbing yet im not surprised. Im sad that im not surprised. It is unbearable to think of young people soaking up this level of shame or relegating themselves to celibacy (i know someone who has done this and i feel sad for him too). It appalls me as someone who believes in a loving God and I feel ashamed of the religion i have walked away from. Perhaps Jesus would too? I think so.
David Riddell. First I heard of this and disappointed. He used to be a truth teller, identifying toxic culture amongst churches which was for the most part, helpful. And training Christians (unqualified counsellors) to "counsel" their congregations through his Living Wisdom school. Unsure how beneficial unqualified counsellors really are.
The Parenting Place also has Christian associations. Since the Parenting Place gets a lot of government funding in various forms, would they not be held accountable for a watered down promotion along the lines of conversion therapy? Presumably funders are not aware of it, perhaps they might think again about funding something that has this kind of alliance or influence on staff?
Heart broken for young people in Aotearoa on the receiving end of all of this...
I decided to listen to this on my Monday commute even though I knew it'd make me angry and now particularly ikred being in the Maungakiekie electorate. But just before I arrived at work, it was a nice coincidence to see a huge rainbow above 😄
Dear David
The church hasn’t learned anything new in 2000 years, their humble representatives in Bethlehem are unlikely to have done so in 20.
I do think they might be on to something though. If sexuality is only a fragment of your identity and can be (indeed should be) willingly suppressed, then surely their religious identity is also just a fraction of who they are and could be (indeed should be) firmly buried far from view, in order to find happiness, fulfilment, and a long life? If not necessarily for their own benefit than surely for ours?
One last question, why do the photos of christian educators and pastors all look the same? Di they all go to the same barber? Does the service to an abrahamic folly demand a perpetually vacuous smile?
I know that’s three, but I am suppressing my ability to perform basic arithmetic today,
M
Thank you for keeping the spotlight on these folks! The messaging at my youth group in church growing up in the 00s was the same - it's not a sin to be gay, but it *is* a sin to act on it and you must be celibate. "God doesn't give you a challenge you can't cop with" 🤢 Had a 'celibate gay christian' come into talk about it (including his 'promiscuous past' and how so many of his friends died of AIDS as 'divine punishment' for their 'lifestyle') and gave us all his book. That stuff sticks in your brain and fucks you up.
Ahh that crew.... heavy sigh. NZ is a small place and I know those names, and a quick search of the venn foundation showed exactly who I expected to see involved. They’re the Christian thinkers who pulled out of St Paul’s in Auckland and repackaged themselves in various ‘foundations’ which are think tanks associated with Laidlaw college.
Still busy exploring ideas and thinking hard about what Christianity can do for modern NZ society, and dissociating themselves from the more distasteful consequences that also pop up. That it feeds into candidates standing for political parties doesn’t surprise me in the least.
How discouraging 😞. Sam Bloore seems like a Grade A piece of garbage! Fully confident that this the way even though its so harmful to so many people! How does one seriously go through life like that? And they wonder why so many are leaving the church in the dust! Disappointing about the ERO review as well! Nothing like taking your sweet time, guys 😖!
Keep on shining a light on this, brave one ❤️. You're doing great work!
This is the only way to get more incels
Since they're so keen on following scripture, they must also be forbidding students from wearing any poly cotton blends, yes?
Heart this comment if the Church's sEx eDuCaTiOn (insistence on celibacy outside marriage) made you feel shit about sex and sexuality in a way that lasted well into your adulting years 🙋🏻♀️
It scares me because there’s no way these views aren’t going to seep through the national party despite what they say. They literally think they’re going to heaven for “helping”. These people are fucking nuts.
I knew the founding principal Brendan and his wife. Close friends often challenged him on this approach to sexuality. He was proudly stating this while at Sacred Heart as well. I also met catholic priests who had more compassion. Brendan and Jane were friends of me and my husband. Jane made my frock when I was a Drag Queen in Queen of the Whole Universe. And they came and enjoyed the show. He even got a kiss from me in Drag after. I hope he found some humanity later in life. It’s a shame that this rigidity still exists despite lived experience
Mind control is horrific. It’s torture. The CIA loved it. The depths that ‘Christians’ are prepared to plumb in pursuit of their twisted views enrages me. What incenses me even more is the conceit that they have some kind of divine right to mess with other people’s lives. Wouldn’t it be nice if crusaders of one kind or another could just enjoy whatever it is they like to do and leave the rest of us the hell alone to enjoy our own versions of reality?