I'd add that the Instagram of Chrissie Carnell Bixler is pretty interesting to follow at this point. She was one of those involved in the trial (she once dated Danny Masterson and accused him of rape) - and she is posting a lot on her stories:
Character statements shouldn't be part of this process. We all know people who can commit horrific crimes can easily hide that side of themselves, so they're completely irrelevant. I found out a person I considered a friend, who everyone really loved because he was friendly and outgoing, was beating his girlfriend horrendously. Does him being nice to everyone else lessen the impact of that on the victim? No, therefore it should not be taken into account in the trial. It's disgusting that Kutcher and Kunis, who run an anti-trafficking organisation, can defend rape because it was their friend doing it. Awful.
It should be noted how many of these letters pointed out that Danny deserved a shorter sentence because he is the father of a daughter. Women/girls are always used as a shield for predators in the grossest of ways.
The very idea of writing a letter in support of a rapist is patently awful. These people writing things like "he was always kind to me" Yeah. That's how predators WORK. You're not saying anything new, nor are you making him look less culpable, you're just making yourself look like an idiot.
I volunteered over a thousand hours for a sexual assault support service, and sat with people and advocated for them while they attended a medical appointment on the worst day of their lives. Seeing the bravery of those people, telling their stories, reaching out for support, that's real strength.
Writing a letter to support your predator friend is disgusting and their fake apology video was even worse. "We support victims". Unless your friend hurt them? Fuck off.
I've had to write a character reference for a friend's husband once. I was happy to do it as she was the one that asked me, as far as I knew he'd just had a mental break, and I'd had nothing but happy experiences with him.
Several months later, they were divorced and she did not share with anyone what had ultimately lead to that other than 'he lied about a lot of things.' They had known each other since they were five years old.
I don't particularly REGRET writing that reference (and his charge was not anything that had hurt anyone other than himself) but I also am VERY aware that there were things going on I didn't know and couldn't have known. Ultimately, what does it matter that I had fond memories of him? That didn't change the things that happened. Hopefully I'm never put in this position again but if, heaven forbid, it happens, I'll definitely be thinking twice.
ALSO (I am just so mad) Mila Kunis says she could sense Danny's 'inate goodness and genuine nature" in her letter. Danny was a twenty year old who dared his other twenty year old cast member (ashton) to put his tongue in Mila's mouth when they had their in character kiss. Which was her first kiss ever.
As a survivor of sexual assault several times over, one who has been exposed to the egregious and unbalanced process of taking legal action in those positions and how gruelling that process is, these things playing out in the media always make me anxious. Each time I know there will be those defending big names from much bigger crimes, and asking irrelevant questions of the victims, and saying things like "it's such a shame, I love _______ in _______, but I guess that will be cancelled". There is something intimately violent about seeing this happen when you're seeing how it may have played out for you, if you'd been on the same platform. The only positive that comes from these public conversations is these sides of them, where we discuss the reality of what these people have done, and how in saying "they're a good guy actually" we're also saying "this rapist isn't like the other rapists".
During the police interviews following my sexual assault I was told by the head of adult sexual assault at the time that my 'alleged' assaulter "was really nice on the phone", and that we had to "give credit where credit's due" because he was actively trying to 'resolve the complaint'.
Rape is not a black and white crime, it isn't committed by people who have no friends, no family and no redeeming qualities. It is committed by rapists, and I think that the focus for sentencing for a crime, should be on the crime. I would be appalled to hear that a well liked murderer was being considered for a more lenient sentence, based on character reference. This man has showed no remorse, that says enough about his character for me.
Aside from that, this particular rapist has a profile. He is well known, with friends in high places. Surely the risk of the sheer weight of these references on a judge should be considered.
An awful experience also for those he assaulted to see the names of so many they may have respected, or loved even, saying the man who single handedly changed their life forever for the worse, was just a stand up guy who made a bad choice. My heart just feels like it's stretching out to sit next to theirs.
Thank you for opening conversation on the things that matter, as always, David.
Also, reading about how Topher Grace was smeared for not hanging out with his castmates and given so much shit for leaving the show early... it makes so much more sense now.
Thanks for covering this -- I've been wondering if you would! As another person named Meg mentioned below, I also think it's worth noting that Ashton Kutcher is 100% wrapped up in some wild stuff. His anti-sex-trafficking org, Thorn, has been in hot water for over-inflating their statistics. They also supply the police and other government agencies with "'free' CIA-linked surveillance tools to 'protect kids,'" use their surveillance to penalize adult sex workers, and support all kinds of legislation that *actual sex workers* are saying is harmful to them. All under the guise of "saving kids."
They're perpetuating sex trafficking myths, harming sex workers, and providing AI technology to government agencies. This sounds made up, but Kutcher even has ties with Mossad and is a zionist. Among other things.
I did a little write-up about some of it, but I'm not comfortable sharing it attached to my real name. If you're interested, I can send it to you! Here are a couple of links in the hopes that it lends some credibility -- I know these claims sound far-fetched, especially about some random LA actor who everyone has always viewed as some goofy, harmless guy:
I'm going to be very cynical and say I doubt they care too much the letters were made public, even if they did issue some kind of apology. They seem to be used to criticism and haven't seemed to care too much about it in the past. And anyway, "good people" do bad things and "bad people" do good things - doesn't mean you shouldn't pay for the crimes you've committed and as another commenter stated, shouldn't really be part of the process. You fuck around, you ought to find out.
What bothers me far more is the way the church of scientology gets away with covering up so much criminal behavior and still enjoys tax-exempt status.
All that being said...excellent PSA, because I'm sure some potential letter-writers would and do care.
I haven’t followed the case very closely and don’t know the circumstances very well, but I do think this is missing some nuance around how the justice system should work, albeit I don’t work in the US justice system, and the point of support letters. The ones here seem more designed to “he didn’t do it” which is not the point. And are we really surprised that rich people make fucked up statements to protect other rich people?
I have personally written a fair few support letters for my clients in the work I do. Aotearoa NZ also have something called cultural reports, which I haven’t written but have provided assistance with. Both are usually created at sentencing or parole stages. Both are about saying, in my context, these are the experiences this person had which may assist the court in assessing how this occurred and what sentence or action is appropriate in this person’s individual context.
Victims do not have to forgive or engage with their abuser. Victims have not received appropriate support or treatment, in my experience, related to the horrible trauma that another person inflicted on them, and the horrible experience that is the court system for most people.
That doesn’t mean that letters of support or reports on the abuser are not useful or necessary, especially in a sexual abuse context. Or that sentences should not be logical and just, and an appropriate reflection of the needs of justice.
It’s impossible to quantify harm caused in most cases, or how abuse affects someone. Yet courts quantify actions and severity all the time. That’s the point. Literally, “here is where your conduct falls in the grand scheme” and then “here is your specific context”. Then, sentence. Most of the time, this does not match what victims want at all, because it’s not designed to.
America may be different, but there is no true life sentence or death penalty here. And one of the aims of the system is rehabilitation. Which we do badly, because crimes are against the state and its rules, not at individually addressing how you harmed another person. Victims deserve much better.
Also, criminals will eventually be released back into society in 99% of cases. What do we want them to be like?
Its important to show and feel true remorse and understand the way in which you’ve hurt someone else. It means you go to prison and understand why you are there. In my experience, because of the way the justice system is run, many people don’t.
If you don’t have remorse for what you did (true remorse, not regret at being caught) you do not recover or understand or develop empathy. And you will go out and commit more crime, often of the type you have already committed.
(For context, I work with people, and mostly men, who were sexually, physically, psychologically and verbally abused and neglected as young people in state care. Most of my clients are violent offenders, many are sexual abusers, and the majority have addiction issues, along with a string of mental health issues. We have a lot of frank conversations about how I will not excuse what they did to their victims, but I will assist them with their abusers.)
I’m not implying that this is the case here, with a privileged rich actor with a church backing, but being a fucked up person doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to help people to be less fucked up. The only way we do that is through productive ways, as shunning people from society through prisons often just makes people worse. The way we do that is showing people that their behaviour is unacceptable and that there are people who can help them change.
Maybe this is seen as naive, but I think the position we would all like to arrive at is that not only does sexual assault not occur (impossible) but that where it does it is properly addressed. And that begins with acknowledging that people, being human beings with human rights, do unforgivable things to other people. And that the people who those things are done to do not have to forgive them. And that everyone is capable of change and not doing unforgivable things again.
I am a passionate advocate, by profession, for people who have been sexually abused. I am also a passionate prison abolitionist and want reform to the justice system, also by profession. Those things are not in conflict and are often closely aligned.
Woof. I watched their apology on IG the other day. Mila’s comment, something about how we stand with all victims, yada yada yada -- it just seemed off. “All victims” are not who we are referencing right now. It’s Danny’s victims you need to be focused on for this.
I can only imagine this having a major impact on Dax and Ashton’s friendship. I’m sure it will stay private, as it should. Just a tough spot to be in.
Reminds me of when Tony Veitch (a Kiwi TV presenter) was sentenced for domestic assault. A bunch of famous colleagues, many household names, wrote character references for him. Not only that... he LIED about what they were for. He told some of them they were writing references for him to get his passport back.
I worked in the Courts for a long time and used to see some amazing character references come through. It was always the wealthy or privileged that had them. You ask a kid going through youth court if he's got a character reference, he'll give you nothing, no parents, no teachers, no sports coach. Ask a developer who's been done for drink driving and he'll give you 20 of the best. Privilege is power. And fuck scientology. Disarm rapists.
I'd write references for my friends. If I believed any of those twerps were rapists they wouldn't BE my friends. Also if they are tall. No tall friends.
A Webworm PSA About Writing Reference Letters for Rapists
I'd add that the Instagram of Chrissie Carnell Bixler is pretty interesting to follow at this point. She was one of those involved in the trial (she once dated Danny Masterson and accused him of rape) - and she is posting a lot on her stories:
https://www.instagram.com/chrissiebixler/?hl=en
Character statements shouldn't be part of this process. We all know people who can commit horrific crimes can easily hide that side of themselves, so they're completely irrelevant. I found out a person I considered a friend, who everyone really loved because he was friendly and outgoing, was beating his girlfriend horrendously. Does him being nice to everyone else lessen the impact of that on the victim? No, therefore it should not be taken into account in the trial. It's disgusting that Kutcher and Kunis, who run an anti-trafficking organisation, can defend rape because it was their friend doing it. Awful.
It should be noted how many of these letters pointed out that Danny deserved a shorter sentence because he is the father of a daughter. Women/girls are always used as a shield for predators in the grossest of ways.
The very idea of writing a letter in support of a rapist is patently awful. These people writing things like "he was always kind to me" Yeah. That's how predators WORK. You're not saying anything new, nor are you making him look less culpable, you're just making yourself look like an idiot.
I volunteered over a thousand hours for a sexual assault support service, and sat with people and advocated for them while they attended a medical appointment on the worst day of their lives. Seeing the bravery of those people, telling their stories, reaching out for support, that's real strength.
Writing a letter to support your predator friend is disgusting and their fake apology video was even worse. "We support victims". Unless your friend hurt them? Fuck off.
I've had to write a character reference for a friend's husband once. I was happy to do it as she was the one that asked me, as far as I knew he'd just had a mental break, and I'd had nothing but happy experiences with him.
Several months later, they were divorced and she did not share with anyone what had ultimately lead to that other than 'he lied about a lot of things.' They had known each other since they were five years old.
I don't particularly REGRET writing that reference (and his charge was not anything that had hurt anyone other than himself) but I also am VERY aware that there were things going on I didn't know and couldn't have known. Ultimately, what does it matter that I had fond memories of him? That didn't change the things that happened. Hopefully I'm never put in this position again but if, heaven forbid, it happens, I'll definitely be thinking twice.
ALSO (I am just so mad) Mila Kunis says she could sense Danny's 'inate goodness and genuine nature" in her letter. Danny was a twenty year old who dared his other twenty year old cast member (ashton) to put his tongue in Mila's mouth when they had their in character kiss. Which was her first kiss ever.
She was fourteen. FOURTEEN.
Innate goodness my ass.
As a survivor of sexual assault several times over, one who has been exposed to the egregious and unbalanced process of taking legal action in those positions and how gruelling that process is, these things playing out in the media always make me anxious. Each time I know there will be those defending big names from much bigger crimes, and asking irrelevant questions of the victims, and saying things like "it's such a shame, I love _______ in _______, but I guess that will be cancelled". There is something intimately violent about seeing this happen when you're seeing how it may have played out for you, if you'd been on the same platform. The only positive that comes from these public conversations is these sides of them, where we discuss the reality of what these people have done, and how in saying "they're a good guy actually" we're also saying "this rapist isn't like the other rapists".
During the police interviews following my sexual assault I was told by the head of adult sexual assault at the time that my 'alleged' assaulter "was really nice on the phone", and that we had to "give credit where credit's due" because he was actively trying to 'resolve the complaint'.
Rape is not a black and white crime, it isn't committed by people who have no friends, no family and no redeeming qualities. It is committed by rapists, and I think that the focus for sentencing for a crime, should be on the crime. I would be appalled to hear that a well liked murderer was being considered for a more lenient sentence, based on character reference. This man has showed no remorse, that says enough about his character for me.
Aside from that, this particular rapist has a profile. He is well known, with friends in high places. Surely the risk of the sheer weight of these references on a judge should be considered.
An awful experience also for those he assaulted to see the names of so many they may have respected, or loved even, saying the man who single handedly changed their life forever for the worse, was just a stand up guy who made a bad choice. My heart just feels like it's stretching out to sit next to theirs.
Thank you for opening conversation on the things that matter, as always, David.
Also, reading about how Topher Grace was smeared for not hanging out with his castmates and given so much shit for leaving the show early... it makes so much more sense now.
I’d just like to share these remarks from Judge Paul Mabey who sentenced the Mama Hooch rapists:
“You drugged and sexually offended against vulnerable young women.
"You knew of stupefying drugs, you had stupefying drugs.
"You are not men of good character, you are sexual predators."
Hey David,
Thanks for covering this -- I've been wondering if you would! As another person named Meg mentioned below, I also think it's worth noting that Ashton Kutcher is 100% wrapped up in some wild stuff. His anti-sex-trafficking org, Thorn, has been in hot water for over-inflating their statistics. They also supply the police and other government agencies with "'free' CIA-linked surveillance tools to 'protect kids,'" use their surveillance to penalize adult sex workers, and support all kinds of legislation that *actual sex workers* are saying is harmful to them. All under the guise of "saving kids."
They're perpetuating sex trafficking myths, harming sex workers, and providing AI technology to government agencies. This sounds made up, but Kutcher even has ties with Mossad and is a zionist. Among other things.
I did a little write-up about some of it, but I'm not comfortable sharing it attached to my real name. If you're interested, I can send it to you! Here are a couple of links in the hopes that it lends some credibility -- I know these claims sound far-fetched, especially about some random LA actor who everyone has always viewed as some goofy, harmless guy:
Sex, lies, and surveillance: Something's wrong with the war on sex trafficking: https://www.engadget.com/2019-05-31-sex-lies-and-surveillance-fosta-privacy.html
Ashton Kutcher Claims He Helped Cops Save Way More Sex-Trafficking Victims Than Authorities Say They've Found: https://reason.com/2017/02/15/ashton-kutcher-plays-sex-worker-savior/
Ashton Kutcher’s NGO Supplies Police with ‘Free’ CIA-linked Surveillance Tool to ‘Protect Kids’: https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/09/investigative-reports/ashton-kutchers-ngo-supplies-police-with-free-cia-linked-surveillance-tool-to-protect-kids/
Ashton Kutcher and Pharrell Williams among Stars and Supporters at FIDF Western Region Gala Chaired by Haim and Cheryl Saban: https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2018-11-02/ashton-kutcher-and-pharrell-williams-among-stars-and-supporters-at-fidf-western-region-gala-chaired-by-haim-and-cheryl-saban
I'm going to be very cynical and say I doubt they care too much the letters were made public, even if they did issue some kind of apology. They seem to be used to criticism and haven't seemed to care too much about it in the past. And anyway, "good people" do bad things and "bad people" do good things - doesn't mean you shouldn't pay for the crimes you've committed and as another commenter stated, shouldn't really be part of the process. You fuck around, you ought to find out.
What bothers me far more is the way the church of scientology gets away with covering up so much criminal behavior and still enjoys tax-exempt status.
All that being said...excellent PSA, because I'm sure some potential letter-writers would and do care.
I haven’t followed the case very closely and don’t know the circumstances very well, but I do think this is missing some nuance around how the justice system should work, albeit I don’t work in the US justice system, and the point of support letters. The ones here seem more designed to “he didn’t do it” which is not the point. And are we really surprised that rich people make fucked up statements to protect other rich people?
I have personally written a fair few support letters for my clients in the work I do. Aotearoa NZ also have something called cultural reports, which I haven’t written but have provided assistance with. Both are usually created at sentencing or parole stages. Both are about saying, in my context, these are the experiences this person had which may assist the court in assessing how this occurred and what sentence or action is appropriate in this person’s individual context.
Victims do not have to forgive or engage with their abuser. Victims have not received appropriate support or treatment, in my experience, related to the horrible trauma that another person inflicted on them, and the horrible experience that is the court system for most people.
That doesn’t mean that letters of support or reports on the abuser are not useful or necessary, especially in a sexual abuse context. Or that sentences should not be logical and just, and an appropriate reflection of the needs of justice.
It’s impossible to quantify harm caused in most cases, or how abuse affects someone. Yet courts quantify actions and severity all the time. That’s the point. Literally, “here is where your conduct falls in the grand scheme” and then “here is your specific context”. Then, sentence. Most of the time, this does not match what victims want at all, because it’s not designed to.
America may be different, but there is no true life sentence or death penalty here. And one of the aims of the system is rehabilitation. Which we do badly, because crimes are against the state and its rules, not at individually addressing how you harmed another person. Victims deserve much better.
Also, criminals will eventually be released back into society in 99% of cases. What do we want them to be like?
Its important to show and feel true remorse and understand the way in which you’ve hurt someone else. It means you go to prison and understand why you are there. In my experience, because of the way the justice system is run, many people don’t.
If you don’t have remorse for what you did (true remorse, not regret at being caught) you do not recover or understand or develop empathy. And you will go out and commit more crime, often of the type you have already committed.
(For context, I work with people, and mostly men, who were sexually, physically, psychologically and verbally abused and neglected as young people in state care. Most of my clients are violent offenders, many are sexual abusers, and the majority have addiction issues, along with a string of mental health issues. We have a lot of frank conversations about how I will not excuse what they did to their victims, but I will assist them with their abusers.)
I’m not implying that this is the case here, with a privileged rich actor with a church backing, but being a fucked up person doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to help people to be less fucked up. The only way we do that is through productive ways, as shunning people from society through prisons often just makes people worse. The way we do that is showing people that their behaviour is unacceptable and that there are people who can help them change.
Maybe this is seen as naive, but I think the position we would all like to arrive at is that not only does sexual assault not occur (impossible) but that where it does it is properly addressed. And that begins with acknowledging that people, being human beings with human rights, do unforgivable things to other people. And that the people who those things are done to do not have to forgive them. And that everyone is capable of change and not doing unforgivable things again.
I am a passionate advocate, by profession, for people who have been sexually abused. I am also a passionate prison abolitionist and want reform to the justice system, also by profession. Those things are not in conflict and are often closely aligned.
Woof. I watched their apology on IG the other day. Mila’s comment, something about how we stand with all victims, yada yada yada -- it just seemed off. “All victims” are not who we are referencing right now. It’s Danny’s victims you need to be focused on for this.
I can only imagine this having a major impact on Dax and Ashton’s friendship. I’m sure it will stay private, as it should. Just a tough spot to be in.
Reminds me of when Tony Veitch (a Kiwi TV presenter) was sentenced for domestic assault. A bunch of famous colleagues, many household names, wrote character references for him. Not only that... he LIED about what they were for. He told some of them they were writing references for him to get his passport back.
I worked in the Courts for a long time and used to see some amazing character references come through. It was always the wealthy or privileged that had them. You ask a kid going through youth court if he's got a character reference, he'll give you nothing, no parents, no teachers, no sports coach. Ask a developer who's been done for drink driving and he'll give you 20 of the best. Privilege is power. And fuck scientology. Disarm rapists.
I'd write references for my friends. If I believed any of those twerps were rapists they wouldn't BE my friends. Also if they are tall. No tall friends.