Arise church crouches down, removes their pants & underwear, and lets a torrent of steaming faeces explode from their buttocks into the open mouths of their victims.
My anger has been building over this whole saga and last night on reading the press release it spilled over. There are no words for this, although your descriptions David were so apt.
The board wrote this, the board are leading the review, the board were advised to resign, the board are unskilled, the board are inept and completely out of their depth.
As an ex pastor in a large church and someone who has spent many years walking away from the church and religion for it’s empty ideologies and fascination with control, I find this deplorable.
Thanks, Steve. It's just so - abhorrent. Even if it was written as some kind of employment dispute thing - the board still wrote it. If I had to sign my name to shit like that, no matter what external pressures were on me - I'd resign. And be really ashamed.
I suppose I shouldn't be, but I am shocked. It was an opportunity for a church like this to respond well to behaviour that quite honestly is common in these Hillsong-style pentecostal churches. It was an opportunity for genuine change and to pave the way for change to occur in similar churches that need it too. The truth and their legacy is in the report that was released. I really encourage every member of Arise church to leave in protest - Jesus has left the building.
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, … , bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”
Your opening paragraph in this article couldn’t be more apt because what Arise did (and continues to do) is nothing short of defecating in public on those who are hurting from what they’ve done. I agree - this isn’t Christianity in any sense of the word. It’s pure greed and evil.
Gotta keep that grift goin’. Gotta rewrite history and ignore facts and paper over the trauma of hundreds of people to keep them god dollars rollin in. I wish Arise would take a leaf out of Jesus’ book and just wander off into the desert never to be heard of again.
You are always careful to talk about the problem being with the leadership and not with the ‘Christians’ being led. Everybody that attends these organisations has a part to play. The bully on the school ground would not bully without the ‘crowd’ watching and arise can’t function without followers that need the system for some reason of their own and some of which aspire to reach leadership. These people that decide the set of values and beliefs are ok, these people that value belonging in that group over careful thought about what they are subscribing too. It’s not easy to leave, but they are the problem just as much as the leadership.
I did snort-laugh at the first sentence of this piece "Arise church crouches down, removes their pants & underwear, and lets a torrent of steaming faeces explode from their buttocks into the open mouths of their victims". I'm not sure I understand. David, stop being so mealy-mouthed: what do you really think? :)
It's funny - I will occasionally hear from people scolding me when I bust out something like that. For me, the joy of Webworm is that it's not the New York Times. It's a newsletter! And I adore writing it.
Thank you so much for your persistence David. I think many of us wish we could help with your work, and we share your heartbreak at this and many other similar situations.
I've just started an amazing book called "Do I Stay Christian? A Guide for the Doubters, the Disappointed and the Disillusioned". I really recommend it.
Funnily enough I had just read the chapter called "Because of the Old Boys' Network (Patriarchy)" when I opened my emails and saw your latest. How incredibly fitting.
The closing paragraph says:
"When you watch the vigour with which members of the white Christian old boys' network seek to control the lives and bodies of women, and the languor with which they seek to control the bodies and behaviour of their own paedophile priests and abusive pastors, you have to wonder.
When you observe the passion and persistence with which they speak out against LGBTQ+ equality, and the nonchalance with which they seek to eradicate abuses of power by their own, you have to wonder....
But you don't have to wonder why so many people....like me (the author)- are ready to pull the ripcord and make our escape from the white Christian old boys' network".
Says it all really doesn't it. Why the author wrote the book (See Arise Church and many others). I went there twice when I lived in Wellington but stopped because it felt so fake. I hated the way people came and "dated" me when I went, targeting the new person. I hated the phone calls from people who were intrusively insistent that they pick me up and take me out for coffee. They had "noticed" I'd missed a week. I hated the screaming hordes of fans. It was like a Justin Bieber concert I swear. Well....how I imagine one would be. Been there, done that and looking for an authentic spirituality.
Not surprising but still absolutely disgusting. I can only hope that the victims are able to get support and empathy elsewhere as they can never going to see any "christianity" from Arise. I hope you're not correct about the Cameron's coming to Australia! We've had more than enough with you sending the Houstons over!
Your opening metaphor is epic. And the God-given typo that sneaked into their shameful spin: “Their lasting impact within the wider Christian church of New Zealand cannot be understated.” Or did a minion do it on purpose?
By their deeds, they are known. The Camerons. Their second tier enablers. possibly their 3rd and 4th tier too. Brian and Hannah Tamaki and their Lieutenants. Peter Mortlock and his enablers. the list goes on.
In this moment, crushing as this is for the victims, the perpetrators at Arise are further exalted. Sadly, I expected this.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Matthew 7:21–23).
Jesus wrapped up his Sermon on the Mount with this warning about false prophets. It applies in my view, to all megachurches, and any church whose leader/s preach a "prosperity gospel", or exercise power over their congregation's lives. These so-called leaders have lost sight of the concept of humble service, and having become the centre of the power and greed structures that Jesus warned about, they do more to "serve Satan" than anything, driving honest, vulnerable, hurting people away! It pretty much summarises any church leaders for whom if they left (or were forced out), and the people who enabled them left, the church would collapse, because it was no longer a church that existed to follow Jesus together, but only a power structure to control and manipulate people into throwing their cash and their volunteer time into a cult of personality.
I encourage people of faith, to be strong, and LEAVE ARISE CHURCH. and others like them.
Cast the dust from your sandals. Join a church whose leaders are humble, who do not drive around in new cars and own multiple megamillion dollar mansions, nor expect church members to be galley slaves for them.
While still couched in more pentecostal terms than I personally prefer, here is a pretty good article about this. All churchgoers should read it, and consider the character of their leaders and the culture that surrounds them.
Yes I read the email statement sent us last night. I and hubby were so disappointed. Even if it has any truth in it IT IS NOT THE TIME TO BE RELEASING AN HONOURING ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF JOHN’S WORK!!
TOTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE NECESSITY TO BE FOCUSED ON DEALING WITH THE FINDINGS OF THE REPORT, TO BE VICTOM FOCUSED, TO BE WILLING TO REMAIN HUMILIATED, … This is such early days of healing, repairing, deeply acknowledging to individuals and to all, showing a path of willingness to reparation, trying to get in the shoes of victims etc … TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, INSENSITIVE AND DISHONOURING OF HUNDREDS OF LIVES. !!!
“They’ve failed the victims. They’ve shamed the victims. Worse than that, they’ve publicly exalted the perpetrators.” Great statement David! , says it all. Thanks.
I am super curious how much their membership and tithes are crashing right now. I imagine a decent part of the congregation is pretty sick of emails like that too, yes?
Yes, there has been a lot of disquiet about that email. Good! It’s early days here with new Kapiti pastors. Our previous pastors had plans to go back into secular work (after 10 years pastoring here) before all this, and delayed till things had settled enough. It’s our new pastors’ second week today. I think they are realistic and treading wisely.
Yes, numbers dropped but are holding steady and maybe increasing. But air is clear. People feel freer to talk and have opinions.
I have not heard about tithes, but any offerings would have dropped if numbers have dropped. We have for years given money to worthy needs and organisations oversees and New Zealand and only a smaller part to our church.
Thanks for answering. God bless. Have a profitable week, keeping in good health.
I’m surprised they didn’t take the time to thank Graham Capill for the great work he did with the Christian Heritage Party in the 90s while they were at it.
My anger has been building over this whole saga and last night on reading the press release it spilled over. There are no words for this, although your descriptions David were so apt.
The board wrote this, the board are leading the review, the board were advised to resign, the board are unskilled, the board are inept and completely out of their depth.
As an ex pastor in a large church and someone who has spent many years walking away from the church and religion for it’s empty ideologies and fascination with control, I find this deplorable.
Thanks, Steve. It's just so - abhorrent. Even if it was written as some kind of employment dispute thing - the board still wrote it. If I had to sign my name to shit like that, no matter what external pressures were on me - I'd resign. And be really ashamed.
I suppose I shouldn't be, but I am shocked. It was an opportunity for a church like this to respond well to behaviour that quite honestly is common in these Hillsong-style pentecostal churches. It was an opportunity for genuine change and to pave the way for change to occur in similar churches that need it too. The truth and their legacy is in the report that was released. I really encourage every member of Arise church to leave in protest - Jesus has left the building.
My favorite part of the Bible is where Jesus overturns the money-changers’ tables in the temple. Reading that as a kid left an impression.
And so the great sky-book speaketh saying:
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, … , bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”
2 Peter 2:1
Or not, whatevs fam.
Your opening paragraph in this article couldn’t be more apt because what Arise did (and continues to do) is nothing short of defecating in public on those who are hurting from what they’ve done. I agree - this isn’t Christianity in any sense of the word. It’s pure greed and evil.
Yeah, it's greed. All greed.
Gotta keep that grift goin’. Gotta rewrite history and ignore facts and paper over the trauma of hundreds of people to keep them god dollars rollin in. I wish Arise would take a leaf out of Jesus’ book and just wander off into the desert never to be heard of again.
It's remarkable how they're ALL THE SAME.
Obsessed with "honouring" morons. It was Brian Houston at Hillsong, now the Camerons.
You are always careful to talk about the problem being with the leadership and not with the ‘Christians’ being led. Everybody that attends these organisations has a part to play. The bully on the school ground would not bully without the ‘crowd’ watching and arise can’t function without followers that need the system for some reason of their own and some of which aspire to reach leadership. These people that decide the set of values and beliefs are ok, these people that value belonging in that group over careful thought about what they are subscribing too. It’s not easy to leave, but they are the problem just as much as the leadership.
A cult parading as a church. A modern Gloriavale.
Yep. At this point - yes.
It’s not even a joke - Israel Cooper is ex Gloriavale I think 💭
I’m not sure Israel was born/raised there but his grandfather was Neville Cooper, the founder
I did snort-laugh at the first sentence of this piece "Arise church crouches down, removes their pants & underwear, and lets a torrent of steaming faeces explode from their buttocks into the open mouths of their victims". I'm not sure I understand. David, stop being so mealy-mouthed: what do you really think? :)
It's funny - I will occasionally hear from people scolding me when I bust out something like that. For me, the joy of Webworm is that it's not the New York Times. It's a newsletter! And I adore writing it.
Hi there
Thank you so much for your persistence David. I think many of us wish we could help with your work, and we share your heartbreak at this and many other similar situations.
I've just started an amazing book called "Do I Stay Christian? A Guide for the Doubters, the Disappointed and the Disillusioned". I really recommend it.
Funnily enough I had just read the chapter called "Because of the Old Boys' Network (Patriarchy)" when I opened my emails and saw your latest. How incredibly fitting.
The closing paragraph says:
"When you watch the vigour with which members of the white Christian old boys' network seek to control the lives and bodies of women, and the languor with which they seek to control the bodies and behaviour of their own paedophile priests and abusive pastors, you have to wonder.
When you observe the passion and persistence with which they speak out against LGBTQ+ equality, and the nonchalance with which they seek to eradicate abuses of power by their own, you have to wonder....
But you don't have to wonder why so many people....like me (the author)- are ready to pull the ripcord and make our escape from the white Christian old boys' network".
Says it all really doesn't it. Why the author wrote the book (See Arise Church and many others). I went there twice when I lived in Wellington but stopped because it felt so fake. I hated the way people came and "dated" me when I went, targeting the new person. I hated the phone calls from people who were intrusively insistent that they pick me up and take me out for coffee. They had "noticed" I'd missed a week. I hated the screaming hordes of fans. It was like a Justin Bieber concert I swear. Well....how I imagine one would be. Been there, done that and looking for an authentic spirituality.
An evil cult is what they are, honouring the great god of money, and leaving destroyed human souls in their wake.
Not surprising but still absolutely disgusting. I can only hope that the victims are able to get support and empathy elsewhere as they can never going to see any "christianity" from Arise. I hope you're not correct about the Cameron's coming to Australia! We've had more than enough with you sending the Houstons over!
Your opening metaphor is epic. And the God-given typo that sneaked into their shameful spin: “Their lasting impact within the wider Christian church of New Zealand cannot be understated.” Or did a minion do it on purpose?
My t-shirt also has indelible marks left on it
By their deeds, they are known. The Camerons. Their second tier enablers. possibly their 3rd and 4th tier too. Brian and Hannah Tamaki and their Lieutenants. Peter Mortlock and his enablers. the list goes on.
In this moment, crushing as this is for the victims, the perpetrators at Arise are further exalted. Sadly, I expected this.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Matthew 7:21–23).
Jesus wrapped up his Sermon on the Mount with this warning about false prophets. It applies in my view, to all megachurches, and any church whose leader/s preach a "prosperity gospel", or exercise power over their congregation's lives. These so-called leaders have lost sight of the concept of humble service, and having become the centre of the power and greed structures that Jesus warned about, they do more to "serve Satan" than anything, driving honest, vulnerable, hurting people away! It pretty much summarises any church leaders for whom if they left (or were forced out), and the people who enabled them left, the church would collapse, because it was no longer a church that existed to follow Jesus together, but only a power structure to control and manipulate people into throwing their cash and their volunteer time into a cult of personality.
I encourage people of faith, to be strong, and LEAVE ARISE CHURCH. and others like them.
Cast the dust from your sandals. Join a church whose leaders are humble, who do not drive around in new cars and own multiple megamillion dollar mansions, nor expect church members to be galley slaves for them.
While still couched in more pentecostal terms than I personally prefer, here is a pretty good article about this. All churchgoers should read it, and consider the character of their leaders and the culture that surrounds them.
https://www.gotquestions.org/I-never-knew-you-depart-from-me.html
Yes I read the email statement sent us last night. I and hubby were so disappointed. Even if it has any truth in it IT IS NOT THE TIME TO BE RELEASING AN HONOURING ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF JOHN’S WORK!!
TOTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE NECESSITY TO BE FOCUSED ON DEALING WITH THE FINDINGS OF THE REPORT, TO BE VICTOM FOCUSED, TO BE WILLING TO REMAIN HUMILIATED, … This is such early days of healing, repairing, deeply acknowledging to individuals and to all, showing a path of willingness to reparation, trying to get in the shoes of victims etc … TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, INSENSITIVE AND DISHONOURING OF HUNDREDS OF LIVES. !!!
“They’ve failed the victims. They’ve shamed the victims. Worse than that, they’ve publicly exalted the perpetrators.” Great statement David! , says it all. Thanks.
I am super curious how much their membership and tithes are crashing right now. I imagine a decent part of the congregation is pretty sick of emails like that too, yes?
Yes, there has been a lot of disquiet about that email. Good! It’s early days here with new Kapiti pastors. Our previous pastors had plans to go back into secular work (after 10 years pastoring here) before all this, and delayed till things had settled enough. It’s our new pastors’ second week today. I think they are realistic and treading wisely.
Yes, numbers dropped but are holding steady and maybe increasing. But air is clear. People feel freer to talk and have opinions.
I have not heard about tithes, but any offerings would have dropped if numbers have dropped. We have for years given money to worthy needs and organisations oversees and New Zealand and only a smaller part to our church.
Thanks for answering. God bless. Have a profitable week, keeping in good health.
I’m surprised they didn’t take the time to thank Graham Capill for the great work he did with the Christian Heritage Party in the 90s while they were at it.
Maybe that'll be part II, or they'll do an entire series on him.
We've all seen this though? Sterling work here from his lawyer Jonathan Eaton (now His Honour Justice Eaton QC). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3afrFshqf7I