120 Comments

Spider dreads, Spider dreads

hanging off of the Spider's head

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I hate this but also love it.

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This is the hard hitting journalism I come to Webworm for. ... that sounds sarcastic but I do love these niche deep dives. Also, I'm glad you're not going to die of rabies, David. 💕

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Ha, I am glad you liked it. I don't want to get too silly on here, but sometimes it seems appropriate and I did find all this very fascinating.

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There's a lot of doom and gloom and while it is important to know about it, it's also important to enjoy some silliness sometimes. :)

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Totally agree. I love this kind of stuff!

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“Permanently matted into our culture...” I see what you did there and it made me chuckle

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3 weeks living in the bush and trying to catch up on the mundane happenings of the world zzzzz

Thank you for sharing what I really want to know about 😁

Such a random and cool story.

I remember cutting my dreads off 20 years ago and someone thought the pile of dark brown was a possum haha

Happy new year and hope th 25th was special. 40 is amazing ❤

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I am so, so glad you spent 3 weeks in the bush. What bush? Jealous.

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I was in the Marlborough sounds volunteering as a camp host for DOC. Lived in a tent at a beautiful little bay, trails all around for long walks everyday. crazy possums, wild goats, sting rays and THE BIRDS ❤. It was incredible. No reception or internet. I just loved it and they want me back next year so I think I will :)

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This sounds like literal heaven and I am so happy for you Beck!

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Thank you David ❤

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Nothing like going back to your roots David (see what I did there...).

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Uhm, imma be the annoying wise ass that has to point out that this guy, awesome as he & his underwater photography is, had literally less than 0.00001% to do with Spider’s dreads on screen.

I know it’s meant to be a fun / fluff piece but it should be acknowledged somewhere that the heroes are the actual artists who made those awesome dreads (let’s ignore any issues around cultural appropriation some may have, which is another Pandora’s Box for another day/article), starting from the hairdressers who kept tidying them for years, to the wig maker who made not just one of these amazing props which would have taken years of skill to learn and 1000s of hours to craft, to one of my close friends & his many colleagues in the effects industry who slave many 10,000s of hours as “digital hairdressers” creating the most difficult bit of movie magic - how to make millions of hairs move realistically in every single frame, especially underwater. Any one of them contributed a million times more to the Spider dreads, and imma point this out cause it annoyed me & them, and David usually investigates more & gives voice to the underdogs.

The FX & movie industry sucks for those thousands of workers who slave away unseen at great personal cost, and who never get the acknowledgement they deserve - not least cause the sociopaths who run the industry force them to sign ironclad NDAs. Rant over. I still love your work, David!

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We spoke a bit about this offline - and all valid points. Definitely don't want to take away from the visual effects artists (most likely underpaid and overworked) who made 99% of this film.

This was definitely a very specific take on the fact that I just never expected ANY of Spider's hair to be real - and the fact it was just blew my mind. And the idea of some dude sitting in the theatre seat went "OH THAT IS MY HAIR" I just found so funny. That was the focus of my piece, narrow and very specific.

If there are any CGI types reading this piece who worked on Spider's hair in any way - please contact me! davidfarrier@protonmail.com.

I have already been pit in touch with Spider's stunt double to get his take on wearing the locks!

As for appropriation - very valid, and I talked about this in a comment below to someone who seemed somewhat taken aback by this concept.

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Thanks David, appreciate your response - found out that all the N’avi’s dreads were 100% CGI & my friend was responsible for making them look and feel realistic (he did all of Jake’s). An incredibly painstaking labour when you think of how many frames there are in a 3h movie - and how many individual strands of hair that all have to look & move just right! Glory to the unsung heroes, like the wig makers and digital hairdressers 😘

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Cultural appropriation?

No, please. Parade your ignorance.

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Hey Chris - not really into throwing words like "ignorance" around, and would appreciate it if you didn't. You added nothing to this conversation except an insult. That's not how debate works. Not in life, and not here on Webworm.

I'd note here that cultural appropriation is a huge and valid issue with dreads. It's something I may write more on here - as my Instagram was flooded with (white) people yelling back at POC who had pointed this out over there.

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I appreciate that David, and I have to admit that I was about to come back and temper my comment.

That said, I really don't believe that racist attacks are something which should be nurtured or condoned, and I'm surprised that you allow it here.

However, perhaps you genuinely believe that dreadlocks are only permissable for some of us - despite the fact that all human hair dreads fairly readily, and that there is clear evidence of dreading across many human cultures, both ancient and modern. Certainly the chap who donated his hair in your story appears to be of Northern European stock. And of course I hardly need remind you that dreading is a very ancient practice in that part of the world.

So, sure. I'll ask. Why is it 'cultural appropriation' for some of us to continue the traditions of our ancestors?

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Thanks for understanding the insult stance!

This is actually something I'd like to work up more into a piece - but I'd say that commenting there are issues with appropriation does not constitute a racist attack.

The way people's hair naturally grows, and how society has treated certain people, plays into it. I am not gonna pretend to be an expert here - white man talking - but I've listening and I'd like to dive deeper.

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Well, it depends on how you define racism, of course.

If racism is defined to include denying some people the right to do certain things, on the basis of their race, then Dr Sea's statement - and yours, I'm sorry to say - do have the appearance of fitting.

Lest that seem too harsh and personal, let me say what I actually came back to mention:

On this matter, at least one of us is wrong. Perhaps both of us are wrong. (And by the same token, perhaps neither of us is entirely wrong).

That's just the way life is. I've never met someone infallible yet.

So it's important to respect people's right to be wrong. Including our own right to be wrong. That's the basis of honest communication. If they're not allowed to be wrong - if we're not allowed to be wrong ourselves - then there's less reason to try to understand other points of view.

Out of curiosity, which cultures (or races, if you prefer), do you see as having a right to dreads?

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Are you really saying that my comment - which pointed out, rightfully, that some folks have issues with dreadlocks as cultural appropriation - constituted a “racist attack”? 🙄

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You labelled a person carrying out a practice which has existed *in his own culture since ancient times* as cultural appropriation. You have now clarified that it is his whiteness which makes his celebration *of his own traditional culture* an act of cultural appropriation.

I don't know how you define racism, or how you define attacking. So perhaps we aren't speaking the same language. Let's leave that to one side.

Cultural appropriation is a serious charge. How can you not object to it, if you think it's happening?

Why do you believe that a person wearing his hair in a manner practiced by his ancestors, is appropriating someone else's culture?

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When have I ever, in my comment, labeled anyone? I’ve pointed out that others (particularly Black Americans: https://helpfulprofessor.com/are-dreadlocks-cultural-appropriation/), have very good reason to take issue with dreads - and that a story on dreads may have acknowledged that. You have absolutely zero idea on my personal stance on dreadlocks - of this guy or the actor or anyone else.

But when you tell two white folks that they’re “racist” against other white folks for simply acknowledging that there is a deep well of justified cultural pain other races than ours feel, that suggests white fragility and that’s an issue more with yourself than anything me or David have said. I’d ask you again to please read my comment as I worded it very carefully. I don’t think this is a good faith debate, which is how we generally interact on this forum, so I’m going to leave it here.

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I’d like to point out that, aside from not appreciating ad hominem attacks, I have made no mention that I personally have issues with the cultural appropriation of dreads. However, in an article about two white folks’ dreadlocks, it seemed enough of a cultural flashpoint issue that it may have warranted mentioning.

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Really enjoyed this deep dive!

Haven't seen Avatar yet, not something that usually would appeal tbh, but a best mate has been working on the costumes for the past many years and I'm excited to see what she's made and it'd almost be rude not too!

I had long tentacles of dreadlocks for many years. Recently (a year ago, lol) wrote a short personal essay for a perzine project on my relationship with my dreads and getting them gone. If you wormies are interested here's a link

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cKN3DVqBsXWcFGR-6AFXQ4iCqbGNmLFz/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=106572993792953191070&rtpof=true&sd=true

I called it 'White girl with dreads'

....And yes...I still have most of them in a bag! Recently used some for a costume but not as dreadlocks...as dags 🤣 felt weird to toss them out.

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This is a GREAT essay. Did it ever go anywhere? Loved seeing your thought process and where you came to. I had to delete a few comments on Instagram when I posted about this piece - someone had pointed out the issue with white people and dreads, *and in came the white people defending them*. As they tend to do. This essay made me feel sane!

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Ummm 🤩 Thankyou for your words...this journalism dropout is blushing heaps cos I'm a big fangirl of your work! 😊 I publish zines (DIY self published pamphlets, not sure if you know about them, they're a whole little subculture of cute)! So this was put in a zine I made, sold about 15 copies (always small runs)....mostly to friends and fellow zinesters ! White people - we love to be fragile huh ?! I try to push against that when it comes up. Thanks for making my week by reading my shit and loving it xx

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I'm glad you shared this. I see so many white people with dreads and I tend to wonder if they have read about the significance of hairstyles to Black people and the part that plays in systematic racism. Are they ignorant, or do they just not care? Your journey is a great example of "know better, do better."

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As a Pākehā who had dreads for a long time (and chopped them off over a decade ago for entirely personal reasons rather than any level of awareness on this) I can share that I was totally ignorant of any race issue. I guess I was just really naive!

Also us white folk are not really used to things not being 'for us' eh. Seems the discussion around this stuff is more visible these days (and I'm certainly continuing to learn and reflect on my priveledge in ways I was not taught growing up)

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Excellent read, you really articulated your relationship with yourself and the world amazingly. Io hope you're still writing heaps! Also hell yes to another zine maker!

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Thanks Jack! Do you make zines? I'm always up for Zine-trades - spesh if it's lucky dip and I've no idea what it'll be ! Feel free to email me in the link on the essay if you are keen! If not, thanks for your kind words :)

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Yes! I just started last year! Always up for trades, I will email you!

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Squeeee and that means REAL MAIL <3

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Lovely essay Ebbz, really enjoyed it and can relate ❤️

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Thanks so much for you lovely comment and for checking it out!

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Great article, thanks for sharing!

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Aww shucks! Thanks for taking the time to read it 💜

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Avatar is so weird to me. It makes so much money and yet is so forgettable. It's hours long and yet you can summarise it pretty comprehensively in about a minute. It's at the absolute forefront of visual effects but the story of the movie is very much done before. It feels like its success should say something about what resonates with people but I have no idea what that is.

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Totally, the story and script are so banal, drove me nuts! But gawd it is soo pretty

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Hi what is your dog's name and what breed(s) are they? Please also feel free to share any anecdotes.

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I think the story in Avatar 2 trumped Avatar 1 at least?

I also think Cameron said in an interview that it's been so long since Avatar 1, he was basically hitting reset with Avatar 2, so the trilogy will be Avatar 2, Avatar 3 and Avatar 4.

Make of that what you will!

(for me this is all about the visuals too)

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It's funny how much he looks like Spider

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I feel a little Karl Pilkintonish saying this but, multiple Avatar movies.... do we need em?

And much more pressing, will we be hearing more from flightless bird soon? there’s quite the void in my podcast life.

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Oh definitely more FB - I am just taking a break. Back end of Jan.

Making each episode is a lot of work - it's a 30 minute produced audio doc each week, and it's just me doing research, interviews and writing. It's then edited and scored, and then we have to do the "attic" session with Monica listening to the doc and us discussing it.

So doing about 30 of those in a row I just needed some air (and to get some more docs recorded / en route)!

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So happy to hear you will be back. All your hard work really comes through, it’s such a great show and I look forward to hearing it again. Nice to have something to look forward to for the end of the month :) Hope you’ve had time to actually relax between rabies shots and travel. Here’s to an epic 2023 David 🙂

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Totally agree. I know art is important, but the amount spent on even shit movies is obscene!

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Just pitching in (more like bragging, actually) to say I have worked with Brett a few times as a model and also as an assistant when he’s been in Wellington. It is such a cool experience seeing Brett work (he’s the absolute man!) Also...quite fitting that his hair ended up in a movie called ‘AVATAR: The Way of Water’ lol 😂 it’s such a small world.

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He seems like a high quality human. Love this. Love how small the world is.

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Wow, that's really cool 😊

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Cheers Shelley :) definitely recommend checking out Brett’s work. He’s crazy good

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I sort of view avatar as more of a technology showcase of [insert release year] than actual movies.

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They are deeply unusual things. I am still struggling with the fact one of my favourite directors is doing nothing but these films for the foreseeable future. Very confusing.

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Hey, this just reminded me of the time I met Brett Stanley! It would have been about 10 years ago at a tattoo convention in New Plymouth, I think he was running a photo booth or something? Hell of a nice guy. He may have even had dreads then!

In other news, the original Avatar is one of the least memorable and most boring films I have ever seen (what even was the dialog in that movie??). The thought of seeing the new one with 3D glasses makes me shudder in a bad way. I doubt technology has advanced much from 1987 when we all got 3D glasses from KFC and sat down at home to watch 'Gorilla at Large'. Very underwhelming.

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I am very mixed on Avatar and still can't really figure out what I made of Avatar 2.

It's weird writing this as I know some Webworm readers worked on it!

It looked great - it really did. The framerate stuff was fascinating, snapping between different framerates for different sequences. The 3D was cool.

I found the most fun bits of the film were just hanging out underwater when zero story was going on. I liked that experience the most, I guess - all the visuals.

I also found it interesting that in our trailers were a bunch of movies that are going to come out in 3D again. Am I correct in thinking 3D films had pretty much stopped about a decade ago? (post Avatar 1 buzz?) I guess cinemas have all the glasses in stock so it makes sense to bring them back and make some more box office cash?

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Yeah, the visuals in the original Avatar were incredible, and I'm sure A2 has stepped that up beyond belief. Much respect for the artists that worked on making it for sure!

I suspect my bias comes from growing up an 'old skool' gamer, where graphics weren't a thing like they are now. Playing Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake (where the graphics for the time were pretty amazing) where the gameplay was so much more important than the graphics probably gave me an old-man-shouting-at-clouds view of pretty animation? I equate the gameplay to the story and dialog, and for me Avatar was too much 'wow, so much visual!' and not so much good story and acting. But conversely I didn't just make $2B from a movie, so I will keep my opinions mostly to myself!!

The first Avatar movie did produce quite a WTF moment for me. Leaving the cinema after seeing it there were two teenage boys in front of me, who had also just watched it. They got outside, stopped, looked around and one said to the other "this is so disappointing. I wish the whole world was 3D". If I had any popcorn left I would have spat it straight out with the laughter!

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Also I love you met Brett and he was cool. He seems like the loveliest guy. Expected - he's a kiwi!

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haha i remember 'Gorilla At Large!', we were just kids and made our own 3D glasses. wow.

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Did anyone else collect those dinosaurs magazines for kids in the 80s - came with 3d glasses, so cool!

Re the movie I'd given up on 3d a few years back but it's come it's come a long way since, worth a shot to check it out (if you can get past the dialogue)

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Hells yes I did!

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Radical!

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I'm not a huge Avatar fan (I know, I know, I'll show myself out) , but i loved learning about those dreads! I 100% love your enthusiasm and curiosity 😊😊!! It's what makes reading (and listening to) your work so wonderful!! Things I would've never thought twice about (i.e. random dreads in Avatar, shower curtains on Flightless Bird), I find myself fascinated to learn more about! Please never never stop being so curious. It is contagious! 🤩🤩🥰🥰

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I think when I stop being curious I will be dead. If we are all a little curious the world is a better, more open-minded place imo!

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Absolutely agree ❤️❤️❤️!!

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Only place I’d argue that you can find bigger dreads is on Ezekiel in The Walking Dead. And I have all of your exact questions for that production 😅

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Oh those were great dreads!

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I still see dreads all the time. But u do live in West Auckland, so it's not unexpected.

There's a guy who lives near me, a middle aged white guy, with a big beard and dreads down his back. I always see him wearing denim short shorts and a cowboy hat, taking his tiny, fluffy white dog out for a walk... What a legend.

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west is best 🥴! (fellow westie)

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