I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but I ran Cameron's tounges phrase (Oooh ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma baila bail ability) through Google translate and it identified it as the ancient biblical language of B'ullsheeit.
This reporting is making a world of difference. I'm a victim in a court case and as he and I have name suppression I can't speak about it, but it will be all over the media hopefully by the end of the year. Court cases take forever and not being able to speak is killing me and adding to the trauma. It will be a good day when they are all stopped. And I am trying to do my bit as well.
Besides the friend I brought along, I only really talked to one guy at the service - the home pastor at the entrance. I just told the truth: that I was from Northcote Baptist (I didn't say when I was from there, I last attended at least 15 years ago), and that I was a bit out of my comfort zone. I ate a cookie before the service and it wasn't poisoned.
After the service I wrestled with going up and talking to John but I didn't do it for a few reasons. 1. Weirdly he had a bodyguard. Or at least a big guy who followed him around everywhere, kept his eyes open, and didn't participate in the service. 2. He had his family there, including his teenage daughter and I felt a bit bad bringing her into it. 3. I was just gonna get kicked out straight away and I wanted to have a nice evening. Basically I chickened out.
Morena. Excellent post (as always). I couldn't bring myself to listen to the recording. The yabadabbadoo stuff creeps me out. But in the unlikely event of ever attending one of these shindigs, it is good to know that my moniker would be Rosco P. Coltrane Artichoke. Happy Friday everyone...
It's amazing how these common it is to see pastors of these megachurches come back. In the states we had Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, and many others. Now, Carl Lentz is starting to make a come back- he preached at Elevation when used to attend, and I followed this fall in depth. -
What's crazy is that nothing can really stop them from coming back. They can be voted out of a church but can start their own. Or, let's just be honest, money will get them back to the pulpit they led. It's a fucking shame.
Ive always be obsessed with megachurches and cultures and how they run. There is a good book on church scandles called Faith Based Fraud by Warren Cole Smith who has a site called Ministry Watch. It's insane how common this sort of thing is.
Keep it up. This is the type of thing that will help so many people. You guys are doing fantastic work.
Jun 15, 2023·edited Jun 15, 2023Liked by David Farrier
This made me smirk, cringe, and want to cry at various points. On the amusing side, now I really wanna know more about Benny Radich's backstory, and what brought him to be there that day! Did he get to talk to anyone about his mission and ministry? Did anyone start to get suspicious? I need more details! Hearing about the prophesying also brought up this memory from my youth: A friend was told that he was receiving the gift of prophesy, but he had to start by practicing with smaller prophesies. One time, he prophesied that another youth group member was going to find chewing gum under his chair. I can't remember if the chair was at youth group or school, but either way I think it was the odds were similar.
Turning to the serious and distressing side of this stuff... "Cameron's still trying to slay people in the spirit, but it feels forced." Ugh. I'm remember the time I was literally forced down because I didn't fall at one of these events. This stuff can be traumatic, and combined with the toxic positivity, it's so damaging. If anyone's new to webworm and hasn't seen this post, I haven't checked the links recently but hopefully there's some stuff that might be a useful starting point if you're struggling: https://www.webworm.co/p/religioustrauma
And this bit? "You can't hold onto hurts or offences if you're in a real move of God." Frankly, that seems blatantly un-biblical! Do these people not study the psalms of lament? Jesus did, and recited them sometimes in his darkest moments. But hey, anger tells us that something is wrong... Anger can energise us to act against injustice. And lament - including expressing our hurt - can be an important part of the healing process... but with healing often come new realisations, like beginning to understand where the responsibility for harm lies. It makes sense that John and preachers of his ilk want their flocks to stay positive. "You can't hold onto hurts or offences..." is victim blaming bullshit, but it's still working for them sometimes.
That line from Hayden about “stumbles politely and then regains his footing” brought back a LOT of memories. You used to feel like you were letting them down if you didn’t fall over, but at the same you wanted to let them know you appreciate they were doing their best. Haha
I love this. I have always wanted people to be able to hear just how bafflingly bizarre it is to hear an entire church speaking in tongues and now Hayden has spiritually unlocked this miracle. I hope all his tweets blow up and everyone subscribes to his Soundcloud. Also, my son (age 2 and a half) thought Benny Hinn using the Force to knock some poor guy over repeatedly was very funny, which is the most appropriate reaction.
On a slightly more serious note, I'm glad there is (at long last) a publication that is giving these ridiculous "churches" their due. They had an easy ride in the media for a long time, and the worm is finally turning. The more people who see through their cheap tricks and literal smoke and mirrors, the less power they will have. You're doing God's work.
Thanks for continuing to expose this abuse and BS. The story triggered me to a time when I was in a meeting in Auckland many years ago and one of the leaders (Peter Mortlock) tried to push me over. I’m pretty big for a woman so was able to stand my ground. Sometimes people can be overwhelmed by the presence of Holy Spirit. I’ve experienced that too. But Holy Spirit doesn’t like to be a sideshow for these narcissistic men.
Jun 15, 2023·edited Jun 15, 2023Liked by David Farrier
I remember hanging with a friend at Royal Rangers (Assembly of God youth group) and walking into the back of the amphitheatre church when everyone started talking in tongues holding their hands up in the air with closed eyes. I was totally blown away, not in awe, it was definatly a kind of 'holy fk' moment. I thought (and I was about 12 at the time) these people have all lost their minds. It could be compared to meditative 'ohm' in a buddhist group, or a crowd singing the same song at a rock gig with the band, but of course those things are condemned in the church (there are no Christian 'rock' groups apparently they are all evil). Also prophetising is correct if from god except if its from a witch or a seer or a shaman... its gotta be a prophet right? They really dislike competition. The hypocrisy is of the frickn chain.
Growing up adjacent to much of this and having had the unfortunate experience of being around people having group language delusions and "falling out in the spirit" doesn't make reading about these types of events any less absofuckinglutely bizarre.
The transcription is brilliant 😂
As I understand it, the speaking in gibberish thing is not a Biblically accurate representation of the gift of tongues, but I suppose that's par for the course for Pentecostals.
I decided to do AI to this. I have a client for Whisper, one of the most powerful open-source AI transcription models, sitting on my computer, so I put it to good use on the Soundcloud snippet.
Important note: Opinions on speaking in tongues vary. The outbreak described in Acts is actually xenolalia, the ability to spontaneously speak another, actual language. Glossolalia, on the other hand, is the ability to speak an, uh, *unknown* language, and that's what we seem to be dealing with in this snippet. If it's an another real language, AI should definitely be able to help. If it's a mystical language... maybe not. Here's how the first attempt went:
We're all here, we're all leaders, we all know how to pray.
So what I want us to do is just wherever you're standing, let's just begin to call upon the
name of the Lord and speak in tongues.
Let's begin to speak in tongues.
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
(crowd chattering)
(crowd applauding)
[APPLAUSE]
Okay. So that... didn't work all that well. But of course, I should have known better to use an *English* language model. I downloaded a 3gb model that's trained on a huge number of languages. Maybe it will do better with "Yaba baba ba ba ba ba ba."
We're all here, we're all leaders, we all know how to pray.
So what I want us to do is just wherever you're standing, let's just begin to call upon the
name of the Lord and we speak in tongues.
Let's begin to speak in tongues.
[CHANTING]
[chanting]
[chanting]
(crowd chanting)
Well. We're not there yet, but there's a new challenge for the AI boffins: get a grip on the Language of Angels.
I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but I ran Cameron's tounges phrase (Oooh ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma baila bail ability) through Google translate and it identified it as the ancient biblical language of B'ullsheeit.
This reporting is making a world of difference. I'm a victim in a court case and as he and I have name suppression I can't speak about it, but it will be all over the media hopefully by the end of the year. Court cases take forever and not being able to speak is killing me and adding to the trauma. It will be a good day when they are all stopped. And I am trying to do my bit as well.
Extras for anyone curious.
Besides the friend I brought along, I only really talked to one guy at the service - the home pastor at the entrance. I just told the truth: that I was from Northcote Baptist (I didn't say when I was from there, I last attended at least 15 years ago), and that I was a bit out of my comfort zone. I ate a cookie before the service and it wasn't poisoned.
After the service I wrestled with going up and talking to John but I didn't do it for a few reasons. 1. Weirdly he had a bodyguard. Or at least a big guy who followed him around everywhere, kept his eyes open, and didn't participate in the service. 2. He had his family there, including his teenage daughter and I felt a bit bad bringing her into it. 3. I was just gonna get kicked out straight away and I wanted to have a nice evening. Basically I chickened out.
Morena. Excellent post (as always). I couldn't bring myself to listen to the recording. The yabadabbadoo stuff creeps me out. But in the unlikely event of ever attending one of these shindigs, it is good to know that my moniker would be Rosco P. Coltrane Artichoke. Happy Friday everyone...
Speaking in tongues no longer cutting it? Time to get into snake handling perhaps.
Great article Hayden, I mean. Benny.
It's amazing how these common it is to see pastors of these megachurches come back. In the states we had Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, and many others. Now, Carl Lentz is starting to make a come back- he preached at Elevation when used to attend, and I followed this fall in depth. -
What's crazy is that nothing can really stop them from coming back. They can be voted out of a church but can start their own. Or, let's just be honest, money will get them back to the pulpit they led. It's a fucking shame.
Ive always be obsessed with megachurches and cultures and how they run. There is a good book on church scandles called Faith Based Fraud by Warren Cole Smith who has a site called Ministry Watch. It's insane how common this sort of thing is.
Keep it up. This is the type of thing that will help so many people. You guys are doing fantastic work.
Just call me Plague Craig by the way. I’m a bit freaked out by the whole Pope thing
This made me smirk, cringe, and want to cry at various points. On the amusing side, now I really wanna know more about Benny Radich's backstory, and what brought him to be there that day! Did he get to talk to anyone about his mission and ministry? Did anyone start to get suspicious? I need more details! Hearing about the prophesying also brought up this memory from my youth: A friend was told that he was receiving the gift of prophesy, but he had to start by practicing with smaller prophesies. One time, he prophesied that another youth group member was going to find chewing gum under his chair. I can't remember if the chair was at youth group or school, but either way I think it was the odds were similar.
Turning to the serious and distressing side of this stuff... "Cameron's still trying to slay people in the spirit, but it feels forced." Ugh. I'm remember the time I was literally forced down because I didn't fall at one of these events. This stuff can be traumatic, and combined with the toxic positivity, it's so damaging. If anyone's new to webworm and hasn't seen this post, I haven't checked the links recently but hopefully there's some stuff that might be a useful starting point if you're struggling: https://www.webworm.co/p/religioustrauma
And this bit? "You can't hold onto hurts or offences if you're in a real move of God." Frankly, that seems blatantly un-biblical! Do these people not study the psalms of lament? Jesus did, and recited them sometimes in his darkest moments. But hey, anger tells us that something is wrong... Anger can energise us to act against injustice. And lament - including expressing our hurt - can be an important part of the healing process... but with healing often come new realisations, like beginning to understand where the responsibility for harm lies. It makes sense that John and preachers of his ilk want their flocks to stay positive. "You can't hold onto hurts or offences..." is victim blaming bullshit, but it's still working for them sometimes.
Jesus wept.
That line from Hayden about “stumbles politely and then regains his footing” brought back a LOT of memories. You used to feel like you were letting them down if you didn’t fall over, but at the same you wanted to let them know you appreciate they were doing their best. Haha
I love this. I have always wanted people to be able to hear just how bafflingly bizarre it is to hear an entire church speaking in tongues and now Hayden has spiritually unlocked this miracle. I hope all his tweets blow up and everyone subscribes to his Soundcloud. Also, my son (age 2 and a half) thought Benny Hinn using the Force to knock some poor guy over repeatedly was very funny, which is the most appropriate reaction.
On a slightly more serious note, I'm glad there is (at long last) a publication that is giving these ridiculous "churches" their due. They had an easy ride in the media for a long time, and the worm is finally turning. The more people who see through their cheap tricks and literal smoke and mirrors, the less power they will have. You're doing God's work.
Thanks Hayden, don’t know how you did it. I would have died from cringe in that room.
Thanks for continuing to expose this abuse and BS. The story triggered me to a time when I was in a meeting in Auckland many years ago and one of the leaders (Peter Mortlock) tried to push me over. I’m pretty big for a woman so was able to stand my ground. Sometimes people can be overwhelmed by the presence of Holy Spirit. I’ve experienced that too. But Holy Spirit doesn’t like to be a sideshow for these narcissistic men.
I remember hanging with a friend at Royal Rangers (Assembly of God youth group) and walking into the back of the amphitheatre church when everyone started talking in tongues holding their hands up in the air with closed eyes. I was totally blown away, not in awe, it was definatly a kind of 'holy fk' moment. I thought (and I was about 12 at the time) these people have all lost their minds. It could be compared to meditative 'ohm' in a buddhist group, or a crowd singing the same song at a rock gig with the band, but of course those things are condemned in the church (there are no Christian 'rock' groups apparently they are all evil). Also prophetising is correct if from god except if its from a witch or a seer or a shaman... its gotta be a prophet right? They really dislike competition. The hypocrisy is of the frickn chain.
Great work, Hayden.
Growing up adjacent to much of this and having had the unfortunate experience of being around people having group language delusions and "falling out in the spirit" doesn't make reading about these types of events any less absofuckinglutely bizarre.
The transcription is brilliant 😂
As I understand it, the speaking in gibberish thing is not a Biblically accurate representation of the gift of tongues, but I suppose that's par for the course for Pentecostals.
shamalamalamalama GARMENTS
Excellent reporting Hayden.
I decided to do AI to this. I have a client for Whisper, one of the most powerful open-source AI transcription models, sitting on my computer, so I put it to good use on the Soundcloud snippet.
Important note: Opinions on speaking in tongues vary. The outbreak described in Acts is actually xenolalia, the ability to spontaneously speak another, actual language. Glossolalia, on the other hand, is the ability to speak an, uh, *unknown* language, and that's what we seem to be dealing with in this snippet. If it's an another real language, AI should definitely be able to help. If it's a mystical language... maybe not. Here's how the first attempt went:
We're all here, we're all leaders, we all know how to pray.
So what I want us to do is just wherever you're standing, let's just begin to call upon the
name of the Lord and speak in tongues.
Let's begin to speak in tongues.
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]
(crowd chattering)
(crowd applauding)
[APPLAUSE]
Okay. So that... didn't work all that well. But of course, I should have known better to use an *English* language model. I downloaded a 3gb model that's trained on a huge number of languages. Maybe it will do better with "Yaba baba ba ba ba ba ba."
We're all here, we're all leaders, we all know how to pray.
So what I want us to do is just wherever you're standing, let's just begin to call upon the
name of the Lord and we speak in tongues.
Let's begin to speak in tongues.
[CHANTING]
[chanting]
[chanting]
(crowd chanting)
Well. We're not there yet, but there's a new challenge for the AI boffins: get a grip on the Language of Angels.