Being white is playing the game of life on easy mode. Being white cis hetero male is like having all the cheat codes. It's about time pakeha people (myself included) recognised their privilege and started dismantling it - not by making life harder for ourselves, but by making life easier for others. Decolonising our minds, our lives, our state - it's the least we owe tangata whenua.
This really is the biggest shake that most white people have ever had to their lives. IT's not time to get insular. It's time to work on making things right for Māori and every other person in Aotearoa.
We live in times unprecedented in most living memory. Let's make some unprecedented moves, restore the sovereignty of tangata whenua, and let them lead us out of this mess. Or at least, you know, if we can't be that revolutionary, give them an equal seat at the table to steer our path.
Let's follow in the footsteps of that brown revolutionary Jesus, not the American Jesus. Let's tear to shreds the moneylenders in the temple. Let's sit at the table with the "undesirables". It's what the whole of the New Testament was originally founded on - radical change.
This pandemic is the second time I’ve felt this kind of trauma. It’s like a complete loss of control over the future, it’s not as defined as it was before.
The first time was during and after the earthquakes in Christchurch in 2011. The initial shock of the earthquake, watching as my walls turned to literal jelly as I stood in a doorway, knowing there was absolutely nowhere I could run. Then for months afterwards, there were the necessary restrictions (water, no go zones etc ).
I was fine. I joined the Student Volunteer army for a few days and helped to shovel silt from peoples homes and saw the destruction through the eyes of people who had lost everything.
This pandemic brings me back to those feelings for the few months after those shakes in Canterbury, but it’s never ending. Now, instead of one ridiculous “Moon Man” causing people needless grief and pain (I’ll always be thankful to John Campbell for his righteous anger as he interviewed him), we now have a whole industry intent on causing as much harm as possible to the most vulnerable, alongside a media who slavishly bullhorn their dangerous and uneducated takes.
I ran the “Anti vax Wall of Shame”, a page and group on Facebook (and a short lived website) for about ten years. Friends and family constantly asked why I have a shit about anti Vaxers. They are a minority, they would say. Nobody takes them seriously, they would tell me. Myself and a core group of people (who I am proud to call friends to this day) who work in medicine, academia and people (like myself) who were concerned laymen - knew what would happen if a pandemic should hit. These people have seriously ruptured the fabric of society, and their numbers have only grown.
Thanks for the work on do on this substack David. The light you bear is far brighter and reaches far further than the little lighter I held for those years I was involved. Thanks for doing what you can to help sew this fabric back together.
Oh wow, YOU ran that? Kudos to you, man. You saw how dangerous that rhetoric has always been. Does part of you ever want to bring it back, or revise it, or are you just like "gah I tried?". I had a few people write to me when I started this in April last year telling me to stop overreacting and writing about the conspiracy stuff. In the last few days, a few of them have written going "Oh, right", basically. They get it. I am sure some people critical of your Wall of Shame would have second thoughts now, too.
I did indeed! The page is still active on Facebook, but I haven't posted in over a year. The group is still very active and has been admin'd by some amazing people for the last few years.
It's been somewhat galling to see the rise of certain individuals in the anti vaccine movement (Sherry Tenpenny, Robert F Kennedy, Joseph Mercola etc) grow from complete obscurity on the platform to the absolutely dangerous font of misinformation they have become. Day after day of monitoring these accounts and pages, day after day of seeing vulnerable people being led down the garden path as it burns.
I switched my twitter account from AVWoS to a personal one because I just found myself shitposting about anti vaxers, and getting into pointless arguments with them online - I didn't really like who I was becoming.
There are so many really great accounts online (Voices for Vaccines, Stop the Australian Vaccination Skeptics Network, Northern Rivers etc) that provide such an excellent resource for people that I don't think AVWoS is really needed any more.
Thanks for the context. I feel you very hard in regards to shitposting and "getting into pointless arguments online". It's so easy to get drawn in as its this combination of frustration and fun. Of course they probably find is the same way - and so infinite idiocy. GAH!
Disclaimer that I'm quite sleep deprived so I don't know if this will make any sense, but we'll give it a go: What I see in these people is extreme examples of confirmation bias. You will never convince them of the truth with evidence because their brainwashed little minds will interpret the information in whatever way fits their belief system. That's why there's no hope in changing these people. They've got an answer for everything.
Sleep deprived or not, you're spot on. This kind of delusional ideation is indeed confirmation bias dialled up to 11. However, I wouldn't go so far to say that there is *no* hope of change, just that our expectations need to be realistic (i.e. low and slow) so we don't give up in frustration and despair.
They are suffering from an information infection (a memetic virus of the mind) that parasitizes the host and subverts their own informational immune system against them.
I'm not diminishing that it is super-frustrating though. I have to keep reminding myself to take deep breaths and not throw my hands up in despair too.
Thanks for the validation, Paul! Means a lot coming from you. And thanks for the articles — I wasn't familiar with the concept of memetics, and though I retain a certain level of skepticism of anything coming from Dawkins, it seems to me to make some intuitive sense. Fascinating stuff.
You're welcome. And you're right that Dawkins is a bit of a mixed bag - your skepticism is warranted. Whilst his earlier academic work on evolutionary biology such as The Selfish Gene where memetics started was truly visionary and insightful, many people (including me) found his later anti-religious polemics to be sociologically and psychologically naive and unhelpful.
Yeah - early Dawkins great. Later Dawkins almost as preachy as the preachers. Him and Ricky Gervais used to be my dream dinner guests. Now they are very low in the list. I'd be hiding in the bathroom the whole bloody night.
My favourite line from your feedback is ‘play[ing] the race angel’. Wouldn’t it be amazing if all this shit was real and there really was a race Angel! How good would that be? Instead of all this suffering and poverty and colonisation and history of slavery and all that pain and anguish to prove your worth to enter the KOH. Seriously, nobody thought this through properly?
Indeed - not quite sure what they want me to do: call a town meeting?
I have also been on camera for years - about 7 years on NZ TV, then Tickled and Dark Tourist and this new thing I'm on - and very accessible on email and social media.
Not *quite* sure what they mean. And I don't think they know, either.
Pentecostal churches are one of the few things in this world that really make my head feel like it might explode. I am VERY non-religious, raised in a family of atheists, but even I know enough about Jesus and the Bible to know that those churches represent the opposite of what Christianity actually is/should be. "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” I had a classmate at uni who was what I always felt to be a true Christian and your second letter writer reminds me of him - humble, quiet about his beliefs, and him and his wife spent many of their nights and weekends out in the city giving food to the homeless (I didn't know this until we'd been classmates for a year and a half). Genuinely a Christian who I have a lot of respect for.
Opposite is it, alright. Like: how do they even look at their behaviour and see it as emulating Christ in any way? Deeply strange. And yet - Peter Mortlock truly believes what he is doing is right. Him and God against the world. And so he's not changing a single thing he's doing. Gah!
Glad to see your opinion piece in Stuff and also talking to Jessie Mulligan on RNZ. I was also heartened to read about the woman from the small, kind church as I have the honour of encountering people and organisations like that all over south Auckland. I am always humbled by the amount of community support they provide. When a tornado hit Papatoetoe, we had some many groups offering us good. It was stunning. Common welfare. It is not lacking in NZ but it does not get the attention. Thanks again for including that email and for your willingness to be be abused but handle it with truths..
I was so, so glad to include that email. I think it's super important not to ignore the fact there are Christians doing great stuff. And I think it's *those* people - not me - that will cut through to the likes of the City Impact people. Maybe.
As an ex-evangelical who knows the bible inside out - I'm fascinated by the misuse of bible stories and the teachings/word of God. Yes, they've always been into cherry picking - but I find it so interesting the way they use stories that I think are quite clear - for their own ends. This is basically how the bible is though right? You need to read it with the overall teaching of Jesus in mind to guide you as to how to understand it. Because it's all open to interpretation. For example, using the story of the widow's mite (Mark 12:41–44, Luke 21:1–4) The widow presented a a bronze mite - the lowest coin (think a 5c I guess) in the presence of Jesus. "He sat down opposite the treasury and observed how the crowd put money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. A poor widow also came and put in two small coins worth a few cents. Calling his disciples to himself, he said to them, 'Amen, I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the other contributors to the treasury. For they have all contributed from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has contributed all she had, her whole livelihood.'". This church uses this story as "the cheerful giver" and basically pastors like Mortz say: "see, even if you are in total poverty, give me your final dollar". But, if you read it as if Jesus said it, with all that we know about Jesus as a (possibly real, possibly not - let's not get into that) historical figure - it's far more likely he's shaming the church for having a widow give her whole livelihood to the church. Jesus was essentially a radical socialist who flipped tables (Matthew 21:12-13) because he hated rich cunts so much. But - but - the story of the Widow's Mite (and it's just one example) is even clearer - Jesus says: "Beware of the scribes, who like to go around in long robes and accept greetings in the marketplaces, seats of honor in synagogues, and places of honor at banquets. They devour the houses of widows and, as a pretext, recite lengthy prayers. They will receive a very severe condemnation." Mark 12:38-44. Then he just smashed the shit out of the temple. If that isn't a massive fuck you - what is? You can't quote Hebrews 10:25 and not quote literally the entire rest of the bible that never mentions church as a physical place. The Kingdom of God is a 'when' not a 'where'. The mentions of churches are in Revelations and they're literally all "fuck this church" and "fuck that church". Jesus hates churches. Matthew 18:20 - “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” The church is a modern concept - and quite frankly, everything I know of the bible is that the vengeful God would fully go Herod* on Mortz ass if He was here. He would absolutely fuck him up. (Herod got struck down, intestines pulled out, turned to worms etc - good times - for being praised as the voice of God which really shits God). Anyway, TLDR is it's all fucked and it's all about getting rich through making mostly good people believe they'll go to Hell if they don't pay for Mortz to get another facelift or Tamaki to get his eyebrows did. (Another tangent - mentioning Sanballat and Tobiah is interesting because it's literally a metaphor now for antisemitism, but was used during the Trump campaign and is often used by neo-nazis. One part of the story is how the Levites were deprived of what they felt was their share of the offerings from the temple's store rooms being closed off to them (or rented depending on how you interpret it) which is kind of ironic - money is at the heart of a lot of religious BS).
Emily - thanks for the Sanballat and Tobiah reveal. I honestly could not even begin to understand the link to what he was saying, but going on who else uses it: makes sense.
And yeah, it's all context huh. You can pretty much lift any verse to justify any thing - as Mortlock has just done on his Facebook page in response to my piece. I think he said something about the devil being in me (or someone like me).
I had no idea you were raised in all this, too. You really will dig all of AJ's stuff: former City Impact member and is writing with *such good context*.
A part of me wonders if the American version of Christianity’s obsession with “freedom” and fear of government control stems from the history of the Puritans fleeing England and settling here in the U.S. so they could practice their faith without government control. And then the Mormons getting persecuted, etc. so it just became permanently baked into the belief system of American Christianity.
Another part of me wonders if the obsession with freedom is a method to avoid facing the impact that their beliefs and privilege have on others.
As an American, I realize that we export both the good and the awful of our culture. Unfortunately, super white mega-churches are part of that culture. If only we could just export things like HBO and the Obamas.
As for tithing 10% to a mega church, that means that those churches raise a ton of money considering that their congregants are in the hundreds if not thousands. I wonder where that money goes. Does it go to helping the poor like Jesus (who was a socialist, btw) preached, or does it go to buying the pastor of the church a mega-mansion. Maybe it should go to helping those who have been impacted by COVID-19 and are in desperate need of assistance, especially since pastors are preaching against masks and vaccinations - the very things that would help put an end to this pandemic and the suffering that it causes.
Definitely the importance of freedom (or you could read status and influence as it has developed) goes back to the Mayflower Pilgrims. Now, they really did have their freedoms challenged.
Just popping on here to say that this coverage of City Impact Church is great. And on a separate City Impact Church issue - there is more than one - I was submitting in favour of the Conversion Therapy Ban yesterday, and one of the other submitters gave evidence that he was attending City Impact Church when he received conversion therapy. I suspect City Impact Church will either have their head in the sand or simply lie about this, but I think there needs to be more accountability on this topic as well. The Pentecostal Church is a real mess.
Thanks for this Jason. And yeah - Mortlock said, in his usual vague (and frankly fucking frustrating) terms that he's counselled people in that way. And you encountered one of them. Gross. Part of the reason I put my email in the last piece was so that members or ex members could find me if needed. Some have.
Cheers David. Prompted by Paul's comment above I have just seen that you have actually written about this topic before - I'm suffering from lockdown brain! Anyway, I'm glad that ex-members are engaging on this topic. I suspect it'll be a relief to them that someone is bringing these issues to light.
I think we’re all suffering from lockdown brain! Well, I know I am. And the conversion therapy issue doesn’t get talked about enough so ka pai for your mahi, Jason.
Given that conversion ‘therapy’ has been a violation of the professional codes of ethics for psychologists, psychotherapist and counsellors for years now, certain church groups remain as the primary place where it still happens. I can attest to that from my personal experience of working with people who’ve endured it - and not been driven to suicide.
As David noted is his previous article, Mortlock practically admits that he practices it by proudly (ugh!) saying he’s had ‘countless people’ who ‘came to him for guidance’ and are now ‘living a completely different lifestyle’ which includes ‘marriage and children’. That’s exactly the kind of coded language that people who continue the practice use to talk about it.
The evangelical ‘ex-gay’ movement has caused incredible harm and suffering and it’s all based on a lie. The documentary ‘Pray Away’ is an expose of it’s roots in the US.
It’s available on Netflix in most countries. Painful but important viewing.
But I don’t want to pretend that it’s only been churches that did and do this. In earlier times, there were many psychologists and psychotherapists who advocated for and practiced ‘reparative therapy’ which is the same abomination with a different name. It’s a shameful stain on our profession and tends not to be acknowledged hence why I wrote my dissertation about it. Lest we forget.
We didn’t hear any stories from the folk who benefited from the Exodus program
The only one not singing from the same songsheet as the producer was the chappie who led off the Doco and who was doing what he could in his own way.
In regards to Julie Rogers, I think the rape had a bit impact on her and from what we are told it wasn’t handled well by Ricky and his team.
As for the Exodus ministry it seemed like it had become moralistic and judgemental and somewhat detached from the core message of the Christian gospel. Maybe not surprising against a backdrop of moralism in the US church where being Christian is defined by one’s behaviour reaching a certain bar, and if someone can’t meet that level they are considered a bad person. The core Christian message is that we are all broken and need fixing. That fixing comes about by trusting in Jesus who in turns changes our heart and motivations. I might add that the prescription doesn’t include following our feelings, even ones involving same-sex attraction.
Finally, I’m not sure that film supported your claim that ‘The evangelical ‘ex-gay’ movement has caused incredible harm and suffering and it’s all based on a lie.’ and by extension that all Pastors who help people handle their same-sex desires are causing incredible harm.
My claim that conversion therapy is based on a lie and has caused incredible harm is not just based on the film.
Rather, it's based on personal experience working as a psychotherapist with people who had the misfortune to experience church based conversion therapy so I'm all too familiar with the harm.
More importantly, it's based on the extensive research done by the American Psychological Association that established that there is scant evidence that sexual orientation change efforts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_change_efforts) work, and considerable evidence that it causes significant psychological trauma including self-harm and suicide attempts.
The film just demonstrates the consequences of the practice and ethical and moral problems with it.
Did you not notice that many of the people who have claimed conversion therapy worked, including the very leaders of the movement, later recanted and admitted they were hiding that it hadn't worked out of fear and shame?
If you can watch that film and hear their testimony and not feel strong doubts about Pastors offering conversion therapy, I doubt anything would convince you otherwise.
I struggle to defer to the American Psychological association as it has been a very political body for some decades now.
As for the leaders of the movement in the film, given that they weren’t able to openly share their own struggles, that suggests to me that the movement was focused on behaviour rather than heart change as covered in my other post.
Are you trying to say that people’s sexual orientation is fixed or unchangeable? You seem to be writing off any attempts by pastors or counsellors to help people with unwanted sexual attraction.
What does 'heart change' mean? Given you're distinguishing it from behaviour, I'm guessing that you mean who someone experiences attraction towards i.e. sexual orientation.
And yes, I am explicitly saying that the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is an enduring pattern across the lifespan. It's not a choice as it's not under conscious control and hence, you can't change it.
And even if it were a choice, why should it be considered to be something 'broken' that needs to be 'fixed'. That's just hetero-normative prejudice.
People who experience 'unwanted sexual attraction' are suffering from internalised homophobia. Their innate experience of attraction has become subjectively unwanted because of repeated exposure to discrimination and societal stigma.
It's ethical to attempt to help with the 'unwanted' part of that sentence (which is entirely possible). It's not ethical to imply you can (or should) change the 'sexual attraction' part.
Yet, that's what pastors and counsellors offering conversion therapy attempt and yes, I do 'write off' any such attempts as deeply misguided and harmful.
And that is why I support a ban on conversion therapy, especially for minors who have it forced on them. It has driven many young people to suicide.
Hey John - not really sure what you are arguing here: whether you are saying a film was coming from a very specific angle (it was, and that's OK - most documentaries do) or that people's sexuality is not fixed. In regards to the latter - dude: it's pretty fixed. aAnd not going to debate that here as I think Webworm has moved way beyond that. If you wanna duck back to 1980 you can.
As to your last statement of "You seem to be writing off any attempts by pastors or counsellors to help people with unwanted sexual attraction" you are talking pretty broadly here so I am not going to dive in with generalisations.
But in regards to a pastor weighing in in regards to someone who is terrified they might be gay or part of the LGBTQI+ community - then I am writing it off, yes. I don't think a pastor should be wading in with a "Yes! It's unwarranted!" response. Because the reason its unwarranted has to do with religious guilt bullshit, no the person's sexuality.
If the pastors response to someone who has unwanted sexual attraction is, "Hey, let's look at this. Why is it unwanted? Is it because you are full of sexual guilt because of what the church has told you? Maybe you don't need to feel guilty about it!" then I am okay with that.
But your statement is so broad I am not even sure what you are suggesting - so it's a tricky thing to weigh in on. But I'll be honest - your framing does bother me.
Good points, Paul. I have seen the Pray Away doco, I thought it was really accurate and informative. I mostly shocked by the new ex-gay movements that have popped up following the collapse of Exodus - that felt like such a watershed moment when it occurred.
Yeah, I felt the same incredulity too. How can they not get it? But shame and denial is a powerful thing. And isn’t this so often the history of gay (and other) rights, two progressive steps forward, one reactionary step back.
Homophobia especially has a long and recurring history because non-straight individuals have been the psychological dumping ground for the repressed and denied desires of others for a long time.
Reading Byrne Fone’s ‘Homophobia: A History’ as part of my dissertation really brought that home to me.
Yeah I sometimes wonder why we think the world is getting better, but it's quite a depressing thought so I try to lean into the 'history arcs in the direction of justice' narrative. I have definitely seen improvements in gay rights over my lifetime which is a relief.
As a white woman, while I've felt small moments of panic when men have done things, the only time I felt real, long lasting and sustained fear for myself was when I was in the 2011 Tsunami. Having days pass with no knowledge if something worse was coming as aftershocks continuedly raged for days, my American family sending me updates of what the US news was saying and how it differed greatly from Japanese news, and the overhanging fear of possible nuclear meltdown has left me with a bit of PTSD and I only had to deal with that for five days, before I went back to America just a few months earlier than planned. Covid, while dangerous and scary, is more preventable than an earthquake. Precautions can be taken. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this other than these megachurches drive me up the wall as well as the rich white men who've never felt that true fear in their life that run 99% of them.
Also, good job bringing the race angel in. Love that guy.
Love the race angel. What a guy! And I feel you RE: the Tsunami. And just existing in the world as a woman, for that matter. You have a more difficult path than I do, for example.
I also heard from people talking about being in the Christchurch quake - and yes - again, huge trauma I cannot even imagine.
I guess the "world-bending" trauma I was referring to was this idea that literally the whole world has shifted, uncontrollably. Like - this idea we now live with a pandemic. This huge leveller. Not one white person (or any person) can escape this change. And I think that feeling is shaking a lot of the privileged to their very core.
Oh, for sure! I think I was just thinking of the last time I felt sustained fear for my safety and five days of post-Tsunami Japan definitely is different from the entire world is in the pandemic. But I agree with you 100%. It's infuriating that people pretend they can ignore it because they've managed to not have to deal with any troubling things before.
I just keep saying everyone has to go through at least one life changing event, right? I got my first one out of the way in my early 20s. (It was only supposed to be one!)
Yeah, I wondered about that strange comment. Is a piece of prick the same as a piece of meat? Are there different cuts? Is one cut juicier and more tender than the other?
Yep, it sure reads to me like there's quite a bit of denied homo-eroticism going on in that comment.
Research has established that some of the most homophobic are those who can't accept their own 'not entirely straight' desires due to their upbringing and environment.
Over on Facebook when I share thoughts the homophobic stuff still comes in so, so quickly. First paragraph is telling me why I am wrong, second paragraph is some bizarre slur. Like clockwork.
Yeah, it must be a weird thing to arouse desire in people who then have to attack you to deny it. And given your profile (both literally and figuratively), you’re going to be a magnet for it. You’re right that it has a really distinct almost mechanistic feel to it. Projective defence mechanisms are well known for that ‘tell’.
But is it not just a way for religious people to get away with essentially saying "piece of shit" in the same way that heaps of my religious American friends say things like "son of a biscuit" or "holy heck".
'On top of this, he’ll be loving the negative attention he’s getting because of the whole “martyr” complex his breed of Christianity is obsessed with.' yeah, well, I am down with the whole martyr thing if those dudes (Mortz and Apostle Bri) are into it - all good - I'll even be okay with providing the nails, or the hammer - no worries. They might as well go the whole hog....
It's kind of amusing that Mortz refers to Bri as Bishop.
Tamaki has already promoted himself from Pastor to Bishop to Apostle. You have to wonder whether he'll cut out the middle-man one day and assert an even more direct connection to the divine.
But as we all know regarding Brian, he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Yes! This is exactly what I thought re the whole Brain Tamaki will they arrest or won't they situation - either way he can play it to his advantage with his followers: either they were in the right, proved to be so by police not doing anything, or he is arrested and is a matyr, standing up for his followers rights....
Its scary to face into and admit you've bought into an elitist, sexist, racist system. I'm reminded of your articles around family members and friends falling down conspiracy theory rabbit holes. This is kind of the same, but even more embedded in all aspects of peoples lives. As detailed in those other pieces I think they way out, and reason to keep some hope, is the same too though- just keep challenging the leadership that perpetuates this shit and provide logical, rational, parallel information and narratives. Thanks for doing that ❤
Cheers Beck. Logical, rational and parallel information is key. You got it. And calm. Gotta keep calm (something I am finding increasingly hard over the last few weeks :P)
Hmmm, this one hit me a little harder than the usual *I agree with everything David writes* response. I think it is because of my background - my family comes from generations of extremely poor Habsburg peasants, who've been starved, beaten and used as cannon fodder in wars, including two world wars our Austrian overlords started. The multi-generational familial trauma that caused (and which also led to my complex childhood PTSD) is not trivial by any means - and it feels like you are slightly over-trivialising *all* white people here, and thus devaluing the many extreme struggles many poor white, especially women and children have suffered at the hands of colonisers, fascists and the church. For millennia.
OTOH, of course I see your point. We are the supremacist race that has caused by far the most grief in Earth's recent history. The fact that I managed to move to the other end of the world, get a PhD, and buy land in my dream country that has embraced me with open arms, is testament to my skin colour - and the decade I was born in. Neither my Oma nor Mama would have been able to do what I did, coming from their underclass background in one of the world's most classist countries.
So... I hear ya, I mostly agree, and yet I feel that some nuance is missing, which is why you'll probably get trounced by enraged white and Christian folks. Though I don't know how you could bring this nuance in and not be accused of being a fence-sitter either. This topic is a very hard one, and I'm glad we are starting to grapple with it. Kudos for having the cojones to poke the very large hornets' nest again!
Hey, very happy for you not to agree with me. There are a million subtleties to fall in-between the bulky, unwieldy words I write. And glad we can have this discussion here. In my mind - I think it's important to go all in to make a point. And it's missed, still. So many emails from, well, write people saying "not all white people". And in saying that entirely missing the point. I dunno - it's tricky. Not to take away from anyone's trauma - but I honestly think so much of this reaction - in a generalised way - comes from white supremacy. From what we saw in the capitol riots, to these rich white businessmen like Leo Molloy and Peter Mortlock - it's all tied up in the same undercurrent.
Very true. One of the challenges in discussions about privilege is that it’s something which accrues to classes of people in the aggregate. Within those classes, privilege is never evenly distributed so when you get down to the level of individual stories, it’s a bit of a blunt instrument.
There will always be many individuals that may belong to a privileged group but who have personally experienced significant hardships and struggles.
That doesn’t mean that privilege isn’t real, just that like any sociological group concept, the intersection with individual experiences is nuanced.
Totally get it - and that’s what I meant to say with my reply, you had to make a rather blunt point that I mostly agree with. Trust me, I cringed HARD when I wrote “not *all* white people” as I’m fully aware of the RW connotations of this 😖 But I like Paul’s nuanced points about class, which does add some of those shades of beige we might miss in the collective (and mostly valid) white guilt. Super hard topic. Glad we get to discuss it.
I agree, alot has happened in history and all races have suffered at the hands of others in the campaign for tribal supremacy. I'm old now, seen alot, lived in many countries and enjoyed different cultures and their beliefs. (I am also like to be successful and live a comfortable life.)
One ideal will never leave me- be pro actively kind to and thoughful of other people and stand up against manipulative, cruel and self serving actions. Makes a huge difference in this grasping world. Change comes from people who walk the talk.
Being white is playing the game of life on easy mode. Being white cis hetero male is like having all the cheat codes. It's about time pakeha people (myself included) recognised their privilege and started dismantling it - not by making life harder for ourselves, but by making life easier for others. Decolonising our minds, our lives, our state - it's the least we owe tangata whenua.
This really is the biggest shake that most white people have ever had to their lives. IT's not time to get insular. It's time to work on making things right for Māori and every other person in Aotearoa.
We live in times unprecedented in most living memory. Let's make some unprecedented moves, restore the sovereignty of tangata whenua, and let them lead us out of this mess. Or at least, you know, if we can't be that revolutionary, give them an equal seat at the table to steer our path.
Let's follow in the footsteps of that brown revolutionary Jesus, not the American Jesus. Let's tear to shreds the moneylenders in the temple. Let's sit at the table with the "undesirables". It's what the whole of the New Testament was originally founded on - radical change.
FUCKING A to this. I may borrow this for a future newsletter featuring reader feedback, Jay. It's just perfect.
You are most welcome to my words, I hope they make some difference in the world. I want to acknowledge that the "game of life on easy mode" was an idea I heard from the sci-fi writer John Scalzi, in this blog post. I feel like it's important to not steal the idea without credit. https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
This pandemic is the second time I’ve felt this kind of trauma. It’s like a complete loss of control over the future, it’s not as defined as it was before.
The first time was during and after the earthquakes in Christchurch in 2011. The initial shock of the earthquake, watching as my walls turned to literal jelly as I stood in a doorway, knowing there was absolutely nowhere I could run. Then for months afterwards, there were the necessary restrictions (water, no go zones etc ).
I was fine. I joined the Student Volunteer army for a few days and helped to shovel silt from peoples homes and saw the destruction through the eyes of people who had lost everything.
This pandemic brings me back to those feelings for the few months after those shakes in Canterbury, but it’s never ending. Now, instead of one ridiculous “Moon Man” causing people needless grief and pain (I’ll always be thankful to John Campbell for his righteous anger as he interviewed him), we now have a whole industry intent on causing as much harm as possible to the most vulnerable, alongside a media who slavishly bullhorn their dangerous and uneducated takes.
I ran the “Anti vax Wall of Shame”, a page and group on Facebook (and a short lived website) for about ten years. Friends and family constantly asked why I have a shit about anti Vaxers. They are a minority, they would say. Nobody takes them seriously, they would tell me. Myself and a core group of people (who I am proud to call friends to this day) who work in medicine, academia and people (like myself) who were concerned laymen - knew what would happen if a pandemic should hit. These people have seriously ruptured the fabric of society, and their numbers have only grown.
Thanks for the work on do on this substack David. The light you bear is far brighter and reaches far further than the little lighter I held for those years I was involved. Thanks for doing what you can to help sew this fabric back together.
Oh wow, YOU ran that? Kudos to you, man. You saw how dangerous that rhetoric has always been. Does part of you ever want to bring it back, or revise it, or are you just like "gah I tried?". I had a few people write to me when I started this in April last year telling me to stop overreacting and writing about the conspiracy stuff. In the last few days, a few of them have written going "Oh, right", basically. They get it. I am sure some people critical of your Wall of Shame would have second thoughts now, too.
Again - many thanks for the kind words.
I did indeed! The page is still active on Facebook, but I haven't posted in over a year. The group is still very active and has been admin'd by some amazing people for the last few years.
It's been somewhat galling to see the rise of certain individuals in the anti vaccine movement (Sherry Tenpenny, Robert F Kennedy, Joseph Mercola etc) grow from complete obscurity on the platform to the absolutely dangerous font of misinformation they have become. Day after day of monitoring these accounts and pages, day after day of seeing vulnerable people being led down the garden path as it burns.
I switched my twitter account from AVWoS to a personal one because I just found myself shitposting about anti vaxers, and getting into pointless arguments with them online - I didn't really like who I was becoming.
There are so many really great accounts online (Voices for Vaccines, Stop the Australian Vaccination Skeptics Network, Northern Rivers etc) that provide such an excellent resource for people that I don't think AVWoS is really needed any more.
Thanks for the context. I feel you very hard in regards to shitposting and "getting into pointless arguments online". It's so easy to get drawn in as its this combination of frustration and fun. Of course they probably find is the same way - and so infinite idiocy. GAH!
Hear, Hear ...
Disclaimer that I'm quite sleep deprived so I don't know if this will make any sense, but we'll give it a go: What I see in these people is extreme examples of confirmation bias. You will never convince them of the truth with evidence because their brainwashed little minds will interpret the information in whatever way fits their belief system. That's why there's no hope in changing these people. They've got an answer for everything.
Sleep deprived or not, you're spot on. This kind of delusional ideation is indeed confirmation bias dialled up to 11. However, I wouldn't go so far to say that there is *no* hope of change, just that our expectations need to be realistic (i.e. low and slow) so we don't give up in frustration and despair.
They are suffering from an information infection (a memetic virus of the mind) that parasitizes the host and subverts their own informational immune system against them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics
Since I know you're fond of the "neuroscience angel", when you're less sleep deprived: https://www.cell.com/patterns/fulltext/S2666-3899(21)00208-7
I'm not diminishing that it is super-frustrating though. I have to keep reminding myself to take deep breaths and not throw my hands up in despair too.
Thanks for the validation, Paul! Means a lot coming from you. And thanks for the articles — I wasn't familiar with the concept of memetics, and though I retain a certain level of skepticism of anything coming from Dawkins, it seems to me to make some intuitive sense. Fascinating stuff.
You're welcome. And you're right that Dawkins is a bit of a mixed bag - your skepticism is warranted. Whilst his earlier academic work on evolutionary biology such as The Selfish Gene where memetics started was truly visionary and insightful, many people (including me) found his later anti-religious polemics to be sociologically and psychologically naive and unhelpful.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/09/is-richard-dawkins-destroying-his-reputation
Yeah - early Dawkins great. Later Dawkins almost as preachy as the preachers. Him and Ricky Gervais used to be my dream dinner guests. Now they are very low in the list. I'd be hiding in the bathroom the whole bloody night.
A transphobe and an islamiphobe, they do make a pair.
Pretty rough stuff, eh.
Exactly, yes. > Intransigence <
My favourite line from your feedback is ‘play[ing] the race angel’. Wouldn’t it be amazing if all this shit was real and there really was a race Angel! How good would that be? Instead of all this suffering and poverty and colonisation and history of slavery and all that pain and anguish to prove your worth to enter the KOH. Seriously, nobody thought this through properly?
Oh bless, the race angel! I missed that. You have to find ways to smile through all this, don't you!
I display more 'Christian' attributes than this lot and I'm an atheist
Yeah, Jesus was pretty fucking unchristian by modern standards :)
It's weird to me for that commenter to accuse you of hiding behind your keyboard when you've very publicly published a piece under your own name.
Indeed - not quite sure what they want me to do: call a town meeting?
I have also been on camera for years - about 7 years on NZ TV, then Tickled and Dark Tourist and this new thing I'm on - and very accessible on email and social media.
Not *quite* sure what they mean. And I don't think they know, either.
Pentecostal churches are one of the few things in this world that really make my head feel like it might explode. I am VERY non-religious, raised in a family of atheists, but even I know enough about Jesus and the Bible to know that those churches represent the opposite of what Christianity actually is/should be. "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” I had a classmate at uni who was what I always felt to be a true Christian and your second letter writer reminds me of him - humble, quiet about his beliefs, and him and his wife spent many of their nights and weekends out in the city giving food to the homeless (I didn't know this until we'd been classmates for a year and a half). Genuinely a Christian who I have a lot of respect for.
Opposite is it, alright. Like: how do they even look at their behaviour and see it as emulating Christ in any way? Deeply strange. And yet - Peter Mortlock truly believes what he is doing is right. Him and God against the world. And so he's not changing a single thing he's doing. Gah!
Glad to see your opinion piece in Stuff and also talking to Jessie Mulligan on RNZ. I was also heartened to read about the woman from the small, kind church as I have the honour of encountering people and organisations like that all over south Auckland. I am always humbled by the amount of community support they provide. When a tornado hit Papatoetoe, we had some many groups offering us good. It was stunning. Common welfare. It is not lacking in NZ but it does not get the attention. Thanks again for including that email and for your willingness to be be abused but handle it with truths..
I was so, so glad to include that email. I think it's super important not to ignore the fact there are Christians doing great stuff. And I think it's *those* people - not me - that will cut through to the likes of the City Impact people. Maybe.
Maybe.
As an ex-evangelical who knows the bible inside out - I'm fascinated by the misuse of bible stories and the teachings/word of God. Yes, they've always been into cherry picking - but I find it so interesting the way they use stories that I think are quite clear - for their own ends. This is basically how the bible is though right? You need to read it with the overall teaching of Jesus in mind to guide you as to how to understand it. Because it's all open to interpretation. For example, using the story of the widow's mite (Mark 12:41–44, Luke 21:1–4) The widow presented a a bronze mite - the lowest coin (think a 5c I guess) in the presence of Jesus. "He sat down opposite the treasury and observed how the crowd put money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. A poor widow also came and put in two small coins worth a few cents. Calling his disciples to himself, he said to them, 'Amen, I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the other contributors to the treasury. For they have all contributed from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has contributed all she had, her whole livelihood.'". This church uses this story as "the cheerful giver" and basically pastors like Mortz say: "see, even if you are in total poverty, give me your final dollar". But, if you read it as if Jesus said it, with all that we know about Jesus as a (possibly real, possibly not - let's not get into that) historical figure - it's far more likely he's shaming the church for having a widow give her whole livelihood to the church. Jesus was essentially a radical socialist who flipped tables (Matthew 21:12-13) because he hated rich cunts so much. But - but - the story of the Widow's Mite (and it's just one example) is even clearer - Jesus says: "Beware of the scribes, who like to go around in long robes and accept greetings in the marketplaces, seats of honor in synagogues, and places of honor at banquets. They devour the houses of widows and, as a pretext, recite lengthy prayers. They will receive a very severe condemnation." Mark 12:38-44. Then he just smashed the shit out of the temple. If that isn't a massive fuck you - what is? You can't quote Hebrews 10:25 and not quote literally the entire rest of the bible that never mentions church as a physical place. The Kingdom of God is a 'when' not a 'where'. The mentions of churches are in Revelations and they're literally all "fuck this church" and "fuck that church". Jesus hates churches. Matthew 18:20 - “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” The church is a modern concept - and quite frankly, everything I know of the bible is that the vengeful God would fully go Herod* on Mortz ass if He was here. He would absolutely fuck him up. (Herod got struck down, intestines pulled out, turned to worms etc - good times - for being praised as the voice of God which really shits God). Anyway, TLDR is it's all fucked and it's all about getting rich through making mostly good people believe they'll go to Hell if they don't pay for Mortz to get another facelift or Tamaki to get his eyebrows did. (Another tangent - mentioning Sanballat and Tobiah is interesting because it's literally a metaphor now for antisemitism, but was used during the Trump campaign and is often used by neo-nazis. One part of the story is how the Levites were deprived of what they felt was their share of the offerings from the temple's store rooms being closed off to them (or rented depending on how you interpret it) which is kind of ironic - money is at the heart of a lot of religious BS).
Emily - thanks for the Sanballat and Tobiah reveal. I honestly could not even begin to understand the link to what he was saying, but going on who else uses it: makes sense.
And yeah, it's all context huh. You can pretty much lift any verse to justify any thing - as Mortlock has just done on his Facebook page in response to my piece. I think he said something about the devil being in me (or someone like me).
I had no idea you were raised in all this, too. You really will dig all of AJ's stuff: former City Impact member and is writing with *such good context*.
This latest: https://whenlambsaresilent.wordpress.com/2021/10/08/i-grew-up-in-city-impact-i-dont-hate-the-church-but-its-theology-does-come-with-a-cost-a-j-hendry/
You might find enjoy Mary Alice Chrnalogar's book "Twisted Scriptures"
https://www.amazon.com/Twisted-Scriptures-Breaking-Churches-Abuse-ebook/dp/B000SEVTL2
She explores the ways certain churches (ab)use scripture in ways that are theologically problematic.
A part of me wonders if the American version of Christianity’s obsession with “freedom” and fear of government control stems from the history of the Puritans fleeing England and settling here in the U.S. so they could practice their faith without government control. And then the Mormons getting persecuted, etc. so it just became permanently baked into the belief system of American Christianity.
Another part of me wonders if the obsession with freedom is a method to avoid facing the impact that their beliefs and privilege have on others.
As an American, I realize that we export both the good and the awful of our culture. Unfortunately, super white mega-churches are part of that culture. If only we could just export things like HBO and the Obamas.
As for tithing 10% to a mega church, that means that those churches raise a ton of money considering that their congregants are in the hundreds if not thousands. I wonder where that money goes. Does it go to helping the poor like Jesus (who was a socialist, btw) preached, or does it go to buying the pastor of the church a mega-mansion. Maybe it should go to helping those who have been impacted by COVID-19 and are in desperate need of assistance, especially since pastors are preaching against masks and vaccinations - the very things that would help put an end to this pandemic and the suffering that it causes.
Definitely the importance of freedom (or you could read status and influence as it has developed) goes back to the Mayflower Pilgrims. Now, they really did have their freedoms challenged.
Just popping on here to say that this coverage of City Impact Church is great. And on a separate City Impact Church issue - there is more than one - I was submitting in favour of the Conversion Therapy Ban yesterday, and one of the other submitters gave evidence that he was attending City Impact Church when he received conversion therapy. I suspect City Impact Church will either have their head in the sand or simply lie about this, but I think there needs to be more accountability on this topic as well. The Pentecostal Church is a real mess.
Thanks for this Jason. And yeah - Mortlock said, in his usual vague (and frankly fucking frustrating) terms that he's counselled people in that way. And you encountered one of them. Gross. Part of the reason I put my email in the last piece was so that members or ex members could find me if needed. Some have.
PS - kudos for submitting in favour, clearly.
Cheers David. Prompted by Paul's comment above I have just seen that you have actually written about this topic before - I'm suffering from lockdown brain! Anyway, I'm glad that ex-members are engaging on this topic. I suspect it'll be a relief to them that someone is bringing these issues to light.
You’re all good — I write too much, I don’t expect you to be all over all of it!!
Lol.
I think we’re all suffering from lockdown brain! Well, I know I am. And the conversion therapy issue doesn’t get talked about enough so ka pai for your mahi, Jason.
Kia ora Paul.
Given that conversion ‘therapy’ has been a violation of the professional codes of ethics for psychologists, psychotherapist and counsellors for years now, certain church groups remain as the primary place where it still happens. I can attest to that from my personal experience of working with people who’ve endured it - and not been driven to suicide.
As David noted is his previous article, Mortlock practically admits that he practices it by proudly (ugh!) saying he’s had ‘countless people’ who ‘came to him for guidance’ and are now ‘living a completely different lifestyle’ which includes ‘marriage and children’. That’s exactly the kind of coded language that people who continue the practice use to talk about it.
The evangelical ‘ex-gay’ movement has caused incredible harm and suffering and it’s all based on a lie. The documentary ‘Pray Away’ is an expose of it’s roots in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pray_Away
It’s available on Netflix in most countries. Painful but important viewing.
But I don’t want to pretend that it’s only been churches that did and do this. In earlier times, there were many psychologists and psychotherapists who advocated for and practiced ‘reparative therapy’ which is the same abomination with a different name. It’s a shameful stain on our profession and tends not to be acknowledged hence why I wrote my dissertation about it. Lest we forget.
The documentary made for an interesting watch.
Some observations:
We didn’t hear any stories from the folk who benefited from the Exodus program
The only one not singing from the same songsheet as the producer was the chappie who led off the Doco and who was doing what he could in his own way.
In regards to Julie Rogers, I think the rape had a bit impact on her and from what we are told it wasn’t handled well by Ricky and his team.
As for the Exodus ministry it seemed like it had become moralistic and judgemental and somewhat detached from the core message of the Christian gospel. Maybe not surprising against a backdrop of moralism in the US church where being Christian is defined by one’s behaviour reaching a certain bar, and if someone can’t meet that level they are considered a bad person. The core Christian message is that we are all broken and need fixing. That fixing comes about by trusting in Jesus who in turns changes our heart and motivations. I might add that the prescription doesn’t include following our feelings, even ones involving same-sex attraction.
Finally, I’m not sure that film supported your claim that ‘The evangelical ‘ex-gay’ movement has caused incredible harm and suffering and it’s all based on a lie.’ and by extension that all Pastors who help people handle their same-sex desires are causing incredible harm.
My claim that conversion therapy is based on a lie and has caused incredible harm is not just based on the film.
Rather, it's based on personal experience working as a psychotherapist with people who had the misfortune to experience church based conversion therapy so I'm all too familiar with the harm.
More importantly, it's based on the extensive research done by the American Psychological Association that established that there is scant evidence that sexual orientation change efforts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_change_efforts) work, and considerable evidence that it causes significant psychological trauma including self-harm and suicide attempts.
https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-sexual-orientation-change-efforts.pdf
The film just demonstrates the consequences of the practice and ethical and moral problems with it.
Did you not notice that many of the people who have claimed conversion therapy worked, including the very leaders of the movement, later recanted and admitted they were hiding that it hadn't worked out of fear and shame?
If you can watch that film and hear their testimony and not feel strong doubts about Pastors offering conversion therapy, I doubt anything would convince you otherwise.
"Hear this now, O foolish people,
Without understanding,
Who have eyes and see not,
And who have ears and hear not"
-- Jeremiah 5:21
This. All of this.
I struggle to defer to the American Psychological association as it has been a very political body for some decades now.
As for the leaders of the movement in the film, given that they weren’t able to openly share their own struggles, that suggests to me that the movement was focused on behaviour rather than heart change as covered in my other post.
Are you trying to say that people’s sexual orientation is fixed or unchangeable? You seem to be writing off any attempts by pastors or counsellors to help people with unwanted sexual attraction.
What does 'heart change' mean? Given you're distinguishing it from behaviour, I'm guessing that you mean who someone experiences attraction towards i.e. sexual orientation.
And yes, I am explicitly saying that the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is an enduring pattern across the lifespan. It's not a choice as it's not under conscious control and hence, you can't change it.
And even if it were a choice, why should it be considered to be something 'broken' that needs to be 'fixed'. That's just hetero-normative prejudice.
People who experience 'unwanted sexual attraction' are suffering from internalised homophobia. Their innate experience of attraction has become subjectively unwanted because of repeated exposure to discrimination and societal stigma.
It's ethical to attempt to help with the 'unwanted' part of that sentence (which is entirely possible). It's not ethical to imply you can (or should) change the 'sexual attraction' part.
Yet, that's what pastors and counsellors offering conversion therapy attempt and yes, I do 'write off' any such attempts as deeply misguided and harmful.
And that is why I support a ban on conversion therapy, especially for minors who have it forced on them. It has driven many young people to suicide.
110% agree.
Hey John - not really sure what you are arguing here: whether you are saying a film was coming from a very specific angle (it was, and that's OK - most documentaries do) or that people's sexuality is not fixed. In regards to the latter - dude: it's pretty fixed. aAnd not going to debate that here as I think Webworm has moved way beyond that. If you wanna duck back to 1980 you can.
As to your last statement of "You seem to be writing off any attempts by pastors or counsellors to help people with unwanted sexual attraction" you are talking pretty broadly here so I am not going to dive in with generalisations.
But in regards to a pastor weighing in in regards to someone who is terrified they might be gay or part of the LGBTQI+ community - then I am writing it off, yes. I don't think a pastor should be wading in with a "Yes! It's unwarranted!" response. Because the reason its unwarranted has to do with religious guilt bullshit, no the person's sexuality.
If the pastors response to someone who has unwanted sexual attraction is, "Hey, let's look at this. Why is it unwanted? Is it because you are full of sexual guilt because of what the church has told you? Maybe you don't need to feel guilty about it!" then I am okay with that.
But your statement is so broad I am not even sure what you are suggesting - so it's a tricky thing to weigh in on. But I'll be honest - your framing does bother me.
Good points, Paul. I have seen the Pray Away doco, I thought it was really accurate and informative. I mostly shocked by the new ex-gay movements that have popped up following the collapse of Exodus - that felt like such a watershed moment when it occurred.
Yeah, I felt the same incredulity too. How can they not get it? But shame and denial is a powerful thing. And isn’t this so often the history of gay (and other) rights, two progressive steps forward, one reactionary step back.
Homophobia especially has a long and recurring history because non-straight individuals have been the psychological dumping ground for the repressed and denied desires of others for a long time.
Reading Byrne Fone’s ‘Homophobia: A History’ as part of my dissertation really brought that home to me.
https://www.amazon.com/Homophobia-History-Byrne-Fone/dp/0312420307
Yeah I sometimes wonder why we think the world is getting better, but it's quite a depressing thought so I try to lean into the 'history arcs in the direction of justice' narrative. I have definitely seen improvements in gay rights over my lifetime which is a relief.
Great book suggestion - thanks for that!
Paul has the best book suggestions of anyone I know.
Loved this, per norm.
As a white woman, while I've felt small moments of panic when men have done things, the only time I felt real, long lasting and sustained fear for myself was when I was in the 2011 Tsunami. Having days pass with no knowledge if something worse was coming as aftershocks continuedly raged for days, my American family sending me updates of what the US news was saying and how it differed greatly from Japanese news, and the overhanging fear of possible nuclear meltdown has left me with a bit of PTSD and I only had to deal with that for five days, before I went back to America just a few months earlier than planned. Covid, while dangerous and scary, is more preventable than an earthquake. Precautions can be taken. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this other than these megachurches drive me up the wall as well as the rich white men who've never felt that true fear in their life that run 99% of them.
Also, good job bringing the race angel in. Love that guy.
Love the race angel. What a guy! And I feel you RE: the Tsunami. And just existing in the world as a woman, for that matter. You have a more difficult path than I do, for example.
I also heard from people talking about being in the Christchurch quake - and yes - again, huge trauma I cannot even imagine.
I guess the "world-bending" trauma I was referring to was this idea that literally the whole world has shifted, uncontrollably. Like - this idea we now live with a pandemic. This huge leveller. Not one white person (or any person) can escape this change. And I think that feeling is shaking a lot of the privileged to their very core.
Oh, for sure! I think I was just thinking of the last time I felt sustained fear for my safety and five days of post-Tsunami Japan definitely is different from the entire world is in the pandemic. But I agree with you 100%. It's infuriating that people pretend they can ignore it because they've managed to not have to deal with any troubling things before.
Just reflecting on this again and how full on it is you were hit by that tsunami. Fucking nuts. I am glad you're okay. I can't even begin to imagine.
I just keep saying everyone has to go through at least one life changing event, right? I got my first one out of the way in my early 20s. (It was only supposed to be one!)
You're my favorite piece of prick, David 😊
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me!
Yeah, I wondered about that strange comment. Is a piece of prick the same as a piece of meat? Are there different cuts? Is one cut juicier and more tender than the other?
Yep, it sure reads to me like there's quite a bit of denied homo-eroticism going on in that comment.
Research has established that some of the most homophobic are those who can't accept their own 'not entirely straight' desires due to their upbringing and environment.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/homophobia-linked-to-suppressed-sexuality-study/YAUX5KCVMNDG3UHNLG6567ABQI/
Over on Facebook when I share thoughts the homophobic stuff still comes in so, so quickly. First paragraph is telling me why I am wrong, second paragraph is some bizarre slur. Like clockwork.
Yeah, it must be a weird thing to arouse desire in people who then have to attack you to deny it. And given your profile (both literally and figuratively), you’re going to be a magnet for it. You’re right that it has a really distinct almost mechanistic feel to it. Projective defence mechanisms are well known for that ‘tell’.
Perhaps it is like calling someone a piece of meat. Maybe that's all David really is. Just a hunking piece of meat. I wonder how he feels about that.
I am a piece of meat (on a skeleton) and I'm very pleased because it's the only thing keeping my brain and consciousness alive!
And here is the answer to how "closing your mouth and sucking penises" is not a contradiction...
But is it not just a way for religious people to get away with essentially saying "piece of shit" in the same way that heaps of my religious American friends say things like "son of a biscuit" or "holy heck".
'On top of this, he’ll be loving the negative attention he’s getting because of the whole “martyr” complex his breed of Christianity is obsessed with.' yeah, well, I am down with the whole martyr thing if those dudes (Mortz and Apostle Bri) are into it - all good - I'll even be okay with providing the nails, or the hammer - no worries. They might as well go the whole hog....
It's kind of amusing that Mortz refers to Bri as Bishop.
Tamaki has already promoted himself from Pastor to Bishop to Apostle. You have to wonder whether he'll cut out the middle-man one day and assert an even more direct connection to the divine.
But as we all know regarding Brian, he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plZRe1kPWZw
Yes! This is exactly what I thought re the whole Brain Tamaki will they arrest or won't they situation - either way he can play it to his advantage with his followers: either they were in the right, proved to be so by police not doing anything, or he is arrested and is a matyr, standing up for his followers rights....
:)
Its scary to face into and admit you've bought into an elitist, sexist, racist system. I'm reminded of your articles around family members and friends falling down conspiracy theory rabbit holes. This is kind of the same, but even more embedded in all aspects of peoples lives. As detailed in those other pieces I think they way out, and reason to keep some hope, is the same too though- just keep challenging the leadership that perpetuates this shit and provide logical, rational, parallel information and narratives. Thanks for doing that ❤
Cheers Beck. Logical, rational and parallel information is key. You got it. And calm. Gotta keep calm (something I am finding increasingly hard over the last few weeks :P)
Hmmm, this one hit me a little harder than the usual *I agree with everything David writes* response. I think it is because of my background - my family comes from generations of extremely poor Habsburg peasants, who've been starved, beaten and used as cannon fodder in wars, including two world wars our Austrian overlords started. The multi-generational familial trauma that caused (and which also led to my complex childhood PTSD) is not trivial by any means - and it feels like you are slightly over-trivialising *all* white people here, and thus devaluing the many extreme struggles many poor white, especially women and children have suffered at the hands of colonisers, fascists and the church. For millennia.
OTOH, of course I see your point. We are the supremacist race that has caused by far the most grief in Earth's recent history. The fact that I managed to move to the other end of the world, get a PhD, and buy land in my dream country that has embraced me with open arms, is testament to my skin colour - and the decade I was born in. Neither my Oma nor Mama would have been able to do what I did, coming from their underclass background in one of the world's most classist countries.
So... I hear ya, I mostly agree, and yet I feel that some nuance is missing, which is why you'll probably get trounced by enraged white and Christian folks. Though I don't know how you could bring this nuance in and not be accused of being a fence-sitter either. This topic is a very hard one, and I'm glad we are starting to grapple with it. Kudos for having the cojones to poke the very large hornets' nest again!
Hey, very happy for you not to agree with me. There are a million subtleties to fall in-between the bulky, unwieldy words I write. And glad we can have this discussion here. In my mind - I think it's important to go all in to make a point. And it's missed, still. So many emails from, well, write people saying "not all white people". And in saying that entirely missing the point. I dunno - it's tricky. Not to take away from anyone's trauma - but I honestly think so much of this reaction - in a generalised way - comes from white supremacy. From what we saw in the capitol riots, to these rich white businessmen like Leo Molloy and Peter Mortlock - it's all tied up in the same undercurrent.
Very true. One of the challenges in discussions about privilege is that it’s something which accrues to classes of people in the aggregate. Within those classes, privilege is never evenly distributed so when you get down to the level of individual stories, it’s a bit of a blunt instrument.
There will always be many individuals that may belong to a privileged group but who have personally experienced significant hardships and struggles.
That doesn’t mean that privilege isn’t real, just that like any sociological group concept, the intersection with individual experiences is nuanced.
Totally get it - and that’s what I meant to say with my reply, you had to make a rather blunt point that I mostly agree with. Trust me, I cringed HARD when I wrote “not *all* white people” as I’m fully aware of the RW connotations of this 😖 But I like Paul’s nuanced points about class, which does add some of those shades of beige we might miss in the collective (and mostly valid) white guilt. Super hard topic. Glad we get to discuss it.
I agree, alot has happened in history and all races have suffered at the hands of others in the campaign for tribal supremacy. I'm old now, seen alot, lived in many countries and enjoyed different cultures and their beliefs. (I am also like to be successful and live a comfortable life.)
One ideal will never leave me- be pro actively kind to and thoughful of other people and stand up against manipulative, cruel and self serving actions. Makes a huge difference in this grasping world. Change comes from people who walk the talk.
Kindness IS key. Good stuff.