Note: An earlier version of this story had "Harness Financial" as "Harvest Financial". I had fundamentalist Christian imagery on the brain. Forgive me. I clocked it the second I hit "send" which is *always* the way.
I fucking love the occasional typo these days. I fucking love humans writing things and not ChatGPT. This fellow human is so relieved to hear your voice in my head when I read your writing, unlike half of the internet which i hear in that robotic monotonous TikTok voiceover voice (no idea what that is or where it’s from - other than straight from hell. I don’t actually have TikTok).
I am going to spend more time on Substack and less time on everything else. I need to read humans.
Thank you David for the digging, as usual. The biggest Zionist organisation in the world is Christian and in the US. It’s such a cynical belief, using Jews now in order to see a third of them die in an imminent apocalypse. I write about this stuff and ways to avoid the “Cosmic War “. I’m so glad you do your bit for justice and decency
A few years ago my uncle gifted my grandfather a gift for christmas that was basically a Christian Zionist manifesto. I remember glancing at it because it seemed interesting based on the title, and then sitting down and reading it entirely in horror. It was the first time I saw that the nastiness I’d observed at church was also in my own family. I hope that people in my family have had their faith challenged over what Israel is doing. I hope that they’ve been forced to confront the abhorrent shit they used to praise. But, unfortunately I suspect that the third temple and the conversion of Jewish people to christianity and the rapture are more important than the real suffering and atrocity happening in the world we live in now, to them and to all other evangelicals who believe in christian zionism with their whole chests.
Now this was EXACTLY what I wanted you to do. I had that nagging loud voice that knew more was happening with those horrid advertisers. I love so much that you dug deeper into them. I often will see an ad and think wtaf? It would seem off or odd. Uncovering that they are weird Christians made soooooo much sense. As for the rhetoric of the right wing to say "we have enough going on in our own country" or words to that selfish effect, it always makes me want to scream 😱. Even those who say they can't help the people of Gaza because of their own lives- well here is a tiny look at mine - I'm in the middle of two historical rape trials of people in positions of power, after a near-life-ending experience two years ago the wiring in my brain is so bad I'm under the care of a neurologist, just the other day the NZ government announced a million dollars for a fund for us Royal Commission survivors of State and Faith based care to have a day of remembrance on the 12 November but so far no one knows how us survivors can access that on the ground to get to a godonlyknowswhatthefuckeryeventwillbe? It is all very stressful. But what is far louder than all of that and rips my heart out of my chest is those kids in Gaza. It's not that difficult to find a way every day to try and even spread awareness. Ok, my preach is sooooooo over. Thank you for shining a light on horrible advertisers and the corrupt power they have.
"We also want to gently acknowledge that here in Aotearoa, we are grappling with serious challenges of our own—rising violence toward children, deepening poverty, and increasing social division. These issues deserve thoughtful engagement, empathy, and a shared commitment to finding solutions."
I thought, ahh, yes, the old bait and switch. "Let's not worry about Palestinians because we've got more important, pressing issues going on right here."
And yet, I bet you everything I own that these people vote right, don't support programmes such as free brekkie and lunch in our low decile schools, oppose raising the minimum wage/benefits annually, oppose pay equity claims, and support tax cuts for the top 5%. They are all fucking arseholes and so hypocritical they make me feel physically sick.
I do not understand how they manage the cognitive dissonance that comes with calling themselves Christians while opposing all policies that support the working poor, un-/under-employed folk, those on sickness benefits, the disabled and solo parents.
Evangelicals also run the so-called Gaza Humantarian Foundation, the organization helping the IDF massacre people at aid sites. Their executive chairman graduated from Liberty University and literally calls himself a Christian Zionist.
It makes me wonder how much of the depravity we see from Evangelicals comes from the "faith alone" concept. If all you need is faith to be saved, then you can commit all kinds of sins and still be saved as long as you believe. And you don't even need to confess to a priest to be forgiven. It's just between you and God, who suspiciously sounds a lot like you.
Joe, as is often the case with your comments - I could not agree more.
I find it really alarming that so many people I speak to have no idea about the whole Christian Zionist thing. It's such a powerful belief and force, and goes a long way to explaining why America backs Israel so strongly.
They all just want the Palestinians dead, so chosen land blah blah blah and Jesus come down from Heaven.
But realistically all of the Palestinians are not going to be dead and the people who survive are understandably going to be very pissed off for generations. Treating a race of people with such hatred and indifference only perpetuates the wars and fighting. Can’t anyone figure out that this is not how you “win”?!?! Look at history!
I read a piece yesterday about the politics of humiliation. It's more about Trump and the MAGA movement but I think it also applies here:
"Yet humiliation is a behaviour we see in every system of domination. For instance, the most extreme such relation is slavery. In every known slave system, the degradation of enslaved persons is a central part of the institution. Again, we might ask, as Orlando Patterson does, why "the master so wantonly appear[s] to undermine his own best interests?" After all, if the only goal is extracting labour from the slave, this is often not the best way of achieving that. However there is another form of extraction occurring—that of status and standing. In the dishonouring of the enslaved person, the enslaver indulges his own sadism and feeds his feelings of superiority and self-esteem."
It's very long, but it also says a lot about right wing politics at the moment.
Part of the problem is, when you accurately describe what Christian Zionists and other right-wing extremists actually want, you end up sounding a bit crazy. Because what they want is very, very crazy.
Yeah, that's the thing - Josh's original piece that I linked to - IT'S FUCKING CRAZY:
"That’s where the cow comes in.
Priests must be ritually pure before Temple sacrifice can resume. The only way to become ritually pure, as described in Numbers 19, is to procure “a red heifer without defect or blemish and that has never been under a yoke.” The heifer must be slaughtered, and its “hide, flesh, blood and intestines” must be burned. The ashes are taken and mixed with water, and the resulting slurry is called The Water Of Cleansing.
The problem? Red heifers are rare. Red heifers “without blemish” essentially don’t exist.
This, realised a Texan cattle breeder and preacher named Clyde Lott, was his moment.
“God always sent to Israel, at the time she needed it, the man with the red heifer,” Lott told the New Yorker. He made contact with the Temple Institute, a “private organisation of religious Jews in Jerusalem” who are dedicated to rebuilding the Temple, and are also producing Temple furniture to its exact Biblical specifications."
This is so true. My last semester at university, I took this course about CS Lewis because I thought it would be fun and easy. Turns out most of the other students were devout Christians, many of them evangelicals. I grew up without a religion and so was shocked to learn how much these students let religion shape their lives.
I distinctly remember getting into a discussion with some of them about “The Great Divorce”, Lewis’s book where a bunch of characters are stuck in purgatory because they are too attached to earthly things. I was surprised to learn the other students believed that nothing they did in earth would matter for getting into heaven. I had thought you had to earn heaven, but no they said all you had to do was “embrace god fully” and you could go to heaven. They also believe God was guiding all of their actions so everything was divinely determined, and it didn’t really matter what they did as long as they had faith.
My impression of Lewis was that he was really concerned with doing the morally right thing and, as a kid who used to tie herself in knots trying to work out whether she was a “good”person (ngl sometimes I still do this), I found a sense in comfort in Lewis’s books. I could relate to characters that struggled with selfishness and fear. Maybe it’s because I grew up Catholic (and those mf’s don't play when it comes to earning your way to heaven with sacrifice, suffering, and hard work) but I find it fascinating that the fundie christians don’t have the same kind of .. I want to say - guidance? education? when it comes to moral or ethical concerns. I’m definitely not saying the “ideals” of suffering and guilt should be imposed on anyone, I guess I’m just wondering how they missed out on all those “give to charity or you’ll go to hell” messages. (Also they seem to be missing those New Testament references to rich men and needles, tax collectors, judging not, and most of all, PROTECTING AND CARING for children… the most vulnerable members of any community but I am now just running on too much)
I think the faith alone people are in a double jeopardy. They are told all they need is to give their hearts to Jesus and be saved, but then they have to do a whole lot of sometimes escalating stuff within their church fold in order to - I dunno - prove it? Show the world? It’s theologically problematic and open to abuse
I'm Jewish, horrified by what is happening in Gaza, and CONSTANTLY preaching about the evils of Christian Zionists. Don't get me started on Christians who celebrate Jewish holidays to be closer to the ways of Jesus (see: Christian Passover seders) but believe all Jews are going to hell. They are not our friends.
These people love a conspiracy surrounding the usual targets of right wing echo chambers such as the UN or whatever is flavor of the month they are focused on as some sort of "cabal". Yet when it comes to people wanting to protest and show solidarity towards a starving child or a population under siege they will cower behind free speech arguments and scoff at people whom show a modicum of human decency. The cognitive dissonance regarding thier own "cabal" in terms of their power and influence in everyday life will forever baffle me. They are rallying against exactly what they are themselves without a hint of irony or self reflection. Cult behavior 101.
You’d think starving children anywhere would deserve our compassion, if nothing else, but no, our tears are reserved for starving children we deem worthy FFS.
I just think the *reason* these particular kids are being ignored is really, really specific in many cases, and I hope more people start seeing it. Christian Zionism is so, so huge - felt all across in America - and why it supports Israel - and of course over in lil' old New Zealand.
A bland letter from a business has so much hiding behind it.
A fundamentalist mindset is one of the most dangerous things in this world. It does not allow for compassion in a changing world, there is no flexibility or pivoting when it is clear, with incontrovertible proof, that your stance is wrong. Merely doubling down on the lies and talking in circles to protect their cohorts. Truly heinous. Thank you for teasing this out further David, it is an abhorrent situation.
Trying to outline this stuff in ways that may cut through in some ways. Christian Zionism is just such a big force, and I feel like unless you're in that world you just don't really clock anything about it, or that mindset.
Absolutely right. This is why nonsense about "dialogue" should be recognized for what it is, you just can't :dialogue with someone who doesn't share your language and who's learned the skills of red herrings, gaslighting, non sequiturs , ad hominem arguments, petitio princiipii, straw man fallacy etc. They've learned from their masters and are eminently resistant to civil discourse or seeking the truth
I've been here on Webworm now for a whole year. It took me a month to be able to comment publicly, and it was a piece about "when do we look away". So I really have to comment on this, just to show that this week's articles have been read and thought of a lot, even on the other side of the planet. And even though I have a lot on my mind to sort out right now, that doesn't mean I give myself a free pass on the way people are murdered in Gaza. (I had to bite my tongue not to start screaming about the anorexia comment earlier, because I was ill and couldn't have dealt with it *that day*.) Generally I have lost friendships because I'm unable to look away. I'm not blaming others, but I'm pretty sure many of them don't know much about things behind the things that are happening and if I wanted to talk about it, I'd just be a nuisance to them.
But, for me, the past year has been very meaningful, because I thought I lost my hope in humanity years ago, but I still see some glimmer of hope that there are people who care. Who find out about things and bring some extra light to help us understand this horrible world. I know it sounds kind of strange but it makes the world less horrible to me. I think I'm just a different type of an animal than those who can't handle any more information, who say I can only handle what's already going on around me. This probably makes me a sadder human being generally, so no reason to celebrate much. (And I don't usually want to judge others.) But still. I just want to say thank you. I've learned a lot, and I'm still here (on the planet) which was, considering the year before this, not a given.
I am completely heartbroken for the pictures I now can't get out of my head, all those poor children, as well as adults, but would I choose to erase them, if I could? No. I've chosen to keep my eyes on things that are happening. I have my limits and try to take care of myself too, but it's a balancing act that doesn't always get done right. When I was a kid myself I was told I needed to eat all of my food on the plate because *insert any famine from the 80s here*. That was totally shitty. But I am who I am despite that parenting style.
Oh, the last thing I tried to do in this society before my disabilities knocked me to the ground, was studying religions. Scientifically, so it could have been pretty much anything that people hold sacred/tabu in any way. Not just actual religious stuff. But now, I see it like if I had been able to continue, I'd know what I'd be researching these days. It's just too obvious. It's the why - what's behind beliefs that people just won't give up no matter what. Or just, why is it okay to say I will handle my life, my problems, and if you come to me with your anxiety with the world horrors, I won't deal with you anymore at all. What's behind that. And why I lack that ability.
Okay, that's enough. Thank you again for all this work. And I didn't find this really confrontational, but my mind is deep in the horrors anyway so everything else seems pretty [edit: didn't mean what lukewarm means in this context and these conversations, and don't know what to change it into... sane?] now. The world's just gone completely mad.
🤔 One thing I learned as I got older was that you NEVER stop learning if your mind & heart remain open🤷 Christian-Zionists or "fundamental Christians" have the opposite in common = closed minds & closed hearts ⁉️ Having compassion for others despite our own troubles is what my simple Sunday School Christianity taught, and although I never took to religion, it still feels true as a humanitarian reaction to starving children ANYWHERE 🫂
This is a real problem for me now, I felt okay yesterday to write and now I'm slightly unhappy about how I said some things, and today I'm feeling quite ill. I tried to edit something but I just have to accept that I'm not always at my best when I *feel* like yes this the moment I need to say my thing. I just need to tell my OCD to sod off. I have a migraine, I can't do OCD right now.
Well, for what it's worth you are very easy to understand. But I also get your mindset, I have big ol' doses of OCD stuff too. I am just content knowing that I will never be content with anything I write or make :P
😱 Hate to tell you this, but YES! It is YOU 🤷 Your comment was great & I had no problem understanding it - I have nothing but aroha 🫂💗 when you choose to share or comment - many of us here have our own struggles and don't judge anyways. You take care of you, you hear⁉️ I never knew I had mild OCD but like David I sometimes deliberately challenge it - go Sanelma 💪💪 (when your migraine is gone 👍)
Yes I know. 😄 It's all me. But, I just replied to (the other) David, where did it go? 🤔
Anyway, if it doesn't show up I'll have to write again. Serves me right, to make a mess of absolutely nothing.
Just to clarify, my Aspergers dx (still used here where I am, yeah), is the thing that makes me so ridiculous about the use of words. I have been learning to speak other people's language all my life and when I think I made a mistake even in a nuance type thing, it won't let go in my head. I'm actually (*they* say, not me) very talented linguistically, but not so much in everything else. That discrepancy is my forever-battle. Social anxiety, even when online, is really one of the worst for me.
Telling your "OCD to sod off" is like anything in life - it needs practice.
I remember when I used to hang the washing out I always used to have to use 2 identical pegs on the same item of clothing.
Now I sometimes deliberately use 2 different pegs (oh the horror) as a kind of "f*** you" to show my own OCD that I'm in control of my life and not it.
I also didn't see anything wrong with your original comment. It makes sense and I understood what you were saying.
(This reply decided to be independent, but let's try again where it should be.)
This made me cackle, "oh the horror", yes, exactly like that. That's me, that's what I do too. When it comes to language(s), it's more my neurodivergent stuff, because I'm so literal in what I say and also what I hear, that I can't tell the difference between my interpretation and others'. And when it's a second language, my OCD comes in and punches me in the head in the middle of the night and says "you stupid little girl (I'm 48) used the wrong word and now DF will think you meant his piece wasn't good".
Why are Christian leaders such odious twerps. And starving kids anywhere should worry everyone, and anyone who blocks aid is the enemy. The amount of hate and total lack of decency in this world is overwhelming and distressing.
Yet another group of people who conflate free speech with freedom from consequences of speech. I can only assume they do this intentionally as a way to justify their abhorrent behaviour.
Although, I am aligned with them on one point. I also wish God would come and take away the Christians. The torture and genocide of an entire people is where we differ.
That message from output envy is some of the most patronising holier than thou shit ive read in ages.
The volume of people purporting to have Christian, climate, community or even fundamental human values as central to their purpose but rationalise their own judgements, complacency and complicit behaviour in layers of word jumble bullshit is astonishing. Fuck. What the hell is going on.
What is happening in Gaza is something the world will be ashamed of for the rest of our life times and beyond. The fact there are so many people willing to support those who mock and dehumanise people being persecuted beyond belief, rather than showing any empathy and compassion for children dying in 2025 from a lack of food is so appalling my brain cannot cope with this.
Great read thanks David! Also appreciate the link to World Kitchen, I have been wanting to help so started up a monthly donation. I couldn’t read though Output Envy’s whole statement, my brain kept on subbing in ‘blahblahblah’ instead of the words which is how I know it’s AI nonsense 😁
I keep feeling how disappointed these fundamental Zionist so called Christians would be if Jesus really came back cos he would be standing for the suffering of the Palestinians. I truly can’t understand how anyone could look at an image of a starving child and not think this is horrendous. My understanding of god and Jesus is he cared for the poor and the oppressed and not for the rich people practicing usury. These so called Christians are a real cancer on our planet.
💯 - this was my Note to support this article: "⁉️🤔 Nothing “Christian” about them if you believe (as they claim) that Jesus’ teachings are the foundation of how to behave 🤷 I truly wish he and his God-father were real so they could smite these fake christians & make them face the error of their ways by doing penance at food banks, Gaza field hospitals, refugee centres etc according to whatever life-work skills they have (apart from bigotry⁉️) "
100%. I went from Christianity to Atheism over 20 years ago but I still think Jesus (regardless of whether or not he was real) had a good moral compass that I still follow to this day.
If Jesus really we're to come back to Israel, do these people really think he's going to look favourably on these Christian Fundies?
After all the suffering that's gone on there over the past few decades?
They need to f***ING read the new testament part of the bible!
Note: An earlier version of this story had "Harness Financial" as "Harvest Financial". I had fundamentalist Christian imagery on the brain. Forgive me. I clocked it the second I hit "send" which is *always* the way.
I fucking love the occasional typo these days. I fucking love humans writing things and not ChatGPT. This fellow human is so relieved to hear your voice in my head when I read your writing, unlike half of the internet which i hear in that robotic monotonous TikTok voiceover voice (no idea what that is or where it’s from - other than straight from hell. I don’t actually have TikTok).
I am going to spend more time on Substack and less time on everything else. I need to read humans.
Careful. It’s addictive 😈
Thank you David for the digging, as usual. The biggest Zionist organisation in the world is Christian and in the US. It’s such a cynical belief, using Jews now in order to see a third of them die in an imminent apocalypse. I write about this stuff and ways to avoid the “Cosmic War “. I’m so glad you do your bit for justice and decency
A few years ago my uncle gifted my grandfather a gift for christmas that was basically a Christian Zionist manifesto. I remember glancing at it because it seemed interesting based on the title, and then sitting down and reading it entirely in horror. It was the first time I saw that the nastiness I’d observed at church was also in my own family. I hope that people in my family have had their faith challenged over what Israel is doing. I hope that they’ve been forced to confront the abhorrent shit they used to praise. But, unfortunately I suspect that the third temple and the conversion of Jewish people to christianity and the rapture are more important than the real suffering and atrocity happening in the world we live in now, to them and to all other evangelicals who believe in christian zionism with their whole chests.
Now this was EXACTLY what I wanted you to do. I had that nagging loud voice that knew more was happening with those horrid advertisers. I love so much that you dug deeper into them. I often will see an ad and think wtaf? It would seem off or odd. Uncovering that they are weird Christians made soooooo much sense. As for the rhetoric of the right wing to say "we have enough going on in our own country" or words to that selfish effect, it always makes me want to scream 😱. Even those who say they can't help the people of Gaza because of their own lives- well here is a tiny look at mine - I'm in the middle of two historical rape trials of people in positions of power, after a near-life-ending experience two years ago the wiring in my brain is so bad I'm under the care of a neurologist, just the other day the NZ government announced a million dollars for a fund for us Royal Commission survivors of State and Faith based care to have a day of remembrance on the 12 November but so far no one knows how us survivors can access that on the ground to get to a godonlyknowswhatthefuckeryeventwillbe? It is all very stressful. But what is far louder than all of that and rips my heart out of my chest is those kids in Gaza. It's not that difficult to find a way every day to try and even spread awareness. Ok, my preach is sooooooo over. Thank you for shining a light on horrible advertisers and the corrupt power they have.
💯💯💯
When I read this bit:
"We also want to gently acknowledge that here in Aotearoa, we are grappling with serious challenges of our own—rising violence toward children, deepening poverty, and increasing social division. These issues deserve thoughtful engagement, empathy, and a shared commitment to finding solutions."
I thought, ahh, yes, the old bait and switch. "Let's not worry about Palestinians because we've got more important, pressing issues going on right here."
And yet, I bet you everything I own that these people vote right, don't support programmes such as free brekkie and lunch in our low decile schools, oppose raising the minimum wage/benefits annually, oppose pay equity claims, and support tax cuts for the top 5%. They are all fucking arseholes and so hypocritical they make me feel physically sick.
I do not understand how they manage the cognitive dissonance that comes with calling themselves Christians while opposing all policies that support the working poor, un-/under-employed folk, those on sickness benefits, the disabled and solo parents.
🫂💪 💯
Evangelicals also run the so-called Gaza Humantarian Foundation, the organization helping the IDF massacre people at aid sites. Their executive chairman graduated from Liberty University and literally calls himself a Christian Zionist.
It makes me wonder how much of the depravity we see from Evangelicals comes from the "faith alone" concept. If all you need is faith to be saved, then you can commit all kinds of sins and still be saved as long as you believe. And you don't even need to confess to a priest to be forgiven. It's just between you and God, who suspiciously sounds a lot like you.
Joe, as is often the case with your comments - I could not agree more.
I find it really alarming that so many people I speak to have no idea about the whole Christian Zionist thing. It's such a powerful belief and force, and goes a long way to explaining why America backs Israel so strongly.
They all just want the Palestinians dead, so chosen land blah blah blah and Jesus come down from Heaven.
Cooked.
But realistically all of the Palestinians are not going to be dead and the people who survive are understandably going to be very pissed off for generations. Treating a race of people with such hatred and indifference only perpetuates the wars and fighting. Can’t anyone figure out that this is not how you “win”?!?! Look at history!
I read a piece yesterday about the politics of humiliation. It's more about Trump and the MAGA movement but I think it also applies here:
"Yet humiliation is a behaviour we see in every system of domination. For instance, the most extreme such relation is slavery. In every known slave system, the degradation of enslaved persons is a central part of the institution. Again, we might ask, as Orlando Patterson does, why "the master so wantonly appear[s] to undermine his own best interests?" After all, if the only goal is extracting labour from the slave, this is often not the best way of achieving that. However there is another form of extraction occurring—that of status and standing. In the dishonouring of the enslaved person, the enslaver indulges his own sadism and feeds his feelings of superiority and self-esteem."
It's very long, but it also says a lot about right wing politics at the moment.
https://www.liberalcurrents.com/the-politi/
Part of the problem is, when you accurately describe what Christian Zionists and other right-wing extremists actually want, you end up sounding a bit crazy. Because what they want is very, very crazy.
Yeah, that's the thing - Josh's original piece that I linked to - IT'S FUCKING CRAZY:
"That’s where the cow comes in.
Priests must be ritually pure before Temple sacrifice can resume. The only way to become ritually pure, as described in Numbers 19, is to procure “a red heifer without defect or blemish and that has never been under a yoke.” The heifer must be slaughtered, and its “hide, flesh, blood and intestines” must be burned. The ashes are taken and mixed with water, and the resulting slurry is called The Water Of Cleansing.
The problem? Red heifers are rare. Red heifers “without blemish” essentially don’t exist.
This, realised a Texan cattle breeder and preacher named Clyde Lott, was his moment.
“God always sent to Israel, at the time she needed it, the man with the red heifer,” Lott told the New Yorker. He made contact with the Temple Institute, a “private organisation of religious Jews in Jerusalem” who are dedicated to rebuilding the Temple, and are also producing Temple furniture to its exact Biblical specifications."
(https://www.webworm.co/p/christianzionists)
This is so true. My last semester at university, I took this course about CS Lewis because I thought it would be fun and easy. Turns out most of the other students were devout Christians, many of them evangelicals. I grew up without a religion and so was shocked to learn how much these students let religion shape their lives.
I distinctly remember getting into a discussion with some of them about “The Great Divorce”, Lewis’s book where a bunch of characters are stuck in purgatory because they are too attached to earthly things. I was surprised to learn the other students believed that nothing they did in earth would matter for getting into heaven. I had thought you had to earn heaven, but no they said all you had to do was “embrace god fully” and you could go to heaven. They also believe God was guiding all of their actions so everything was divinely determined, and it didn’t really matter what they did as long as they had faith.
My impression of Lewis was that he was really concerned with doing the morally right thing and, as a kid who used to tie herself in knots trying to work out whether she was a “good”person (ngl sometimes I still do this), I found a sense in comfort in Lewis’s books. I could relate to characters that struggled with selfishness and fear. Maybe it’s because I grew up Catholic (and those mf’s don't play when it comes to earning your way to heaven with sacrifice, suffering, and hard work) but I find it fascinating that the fundie christians don’t have the same kind of .. I want to say - guidance? education? when it comes to moral or ethical concerns. I’m definitely not saying the “ideals” of suffering and guilt should be imposed on anyone, I guess I’m just wondering how they missed out on all those “give to charity or you’ll go to hell” messages. (Also they seem to be missing those New Testament references to rich men and needles, tax collectors, judging not, and most of all, PROTECTING AND CARING for children… the most vulnerable members of any community but I am now just running on too much)
"As a kid who used to tie herself in knots trying to work out whether she was a “good”person (ngl sometimes I still do this)" - YOU AND ME BOTH!
Don't forget that there are a number of these crazy supposed Christians leading our country right now including the PM and Simeon Brown
Simeon Brown (what a handle to stick on a kid to start with...I digress) a Christian ?!
I think the faith alone people are in a double jeopardy. They are told all they need is to give their hearts to Jesus and be saved, but then they have to do a whole lot of sometimes escalating stuff within their church fold in order to - I dunno - prove it? Show the world? It’s theologically problematic and open to abuse
I'm Jewish, horrified by what is happening in Gaza, and CONSTANTLY preaching about the evils of Christian Zionists. Don't get me started on Christians who celebrate Jewish holidays to be closer to the ways of Jesus (see: Christian Passover seders) but believe all Jews are going to hell. They are not our friends.
You are awesome. Thanks for being here.
These people love a conspiracy surrounding the usual targets of right wing echo chambers such as the UN or whatever is flavor of the month they are focused on as some sort of "cabal". Yet when it comes to people wanting to protest and show solidarity towards a starving child or a population under siege they will cower behind free speech arguments and scoff at people whom show a modicum of human decency. The cognitive dissonance regarding thier own "cabal" in terms of their power and influence in everyday life will forever baffle me. They are rallying against exactly what they are themselves without a hint of irony or self reflection. Cult behavior 101.
You’d think starving children anywhere would deserve our compassion, if nothing else, but no, our tears are reserved for starving children we deem worthy FFS.
I just think the *reason* these particular kids are being ignored is really, really specific in many cases, and I hope more people start seeing it. Christian Zionism is so, so huge - felt all across in America - and why it supports Israel - and of course over in lil' old New Zealand.
A bland letter from a business has so much hiding behind it.
Thanks for making the link so clear David.
A fundamentalist mindset is one of the most dangerous things in this world. It does not allow for compassion in a changing world, there is no flexibility or pivoting when it is clear, with incontrovertible proof, that your stance is wrong. Merely doubling down on the lies and talking in circles to protect their cohorts. Truly heinous. Thank you for teasing this out further David, it is an abhorrent situation.
Trying to outline this stuff in ways that may cut through in some ways. Christian Zionism is just such a big force, and I feel like unless you're in that world you just don't really clock anything about it, or that mindset.
Absolutely right. This is why nonsense about "dialogue" should be recognized for what it is, you just can't :dialogue with someone who doesn't share your language and who's learned the skills of red herrings, gaslighting, non sequiturs , ad hominem arguments, petitio princiipii, straw man fallacy etc. They've learned from their masters and are eminently resistant to civil discourse or seeking the truth
I've been here on Webworm now for a whole year. It took me a month to be able to comment publicly, and it was a piece about "when do we look away". So I really have to comment on this, just to show that this week's articles have been read and thought of a lot, even on the other side of the planet. And even though I have a lot on my mind to sort out right now, that doesn't mean I give myself a free pass on the way people are murdered in Gaza. (I had to bite my tongue not to start screaming about the anorexia comment earlier, because I was ill and couldn't have dealt with it *that day*.) Generally I have lost friendships because I'm unable to look away. I'm not blaming others, but I'm pretty sure many of them don't know much about things behind the things that are happening and if I wanted to talk about it, I'd just be a nuisance to them.
But, for me, the past year has been very meaningful, because I thought I lost my hope in humanity years ago, but I still see some glimmer of hope that there are people who care. Who find out about things and bring some extra light to help us understand this horrible world. I know it sounds kind of strange but it makes the world less horrible to me. I think I'm just a different type of an animal than those who can't handle any more information, who say I can only handle what's already going on around me. This probably makes me a sadder human being generally, so no reason to celebrate much. (And I don't usually want to judge others.) But still. I just want to say thank you. I've learned a lot, and I'm still here (on the planet) which was, considering the year before this, not a given.
I am completely heartbroken for the pictures I now can't get out of my head, all those poor children, as well as adults, but would I choose to erase them, if I could? No. I've chosen to keep my eyes on things that are happening. I have my limits and try to take care of myself too, but it's a balancing act that doesn't always get done right. When I was a kid myself I was told I needed to eat all of my food on the plate because *insert any famine from the 80s here*. That was totally shitty. But I am who I am despite that parenting style.
Oh, the last thing I tried to do in this society before my disabilities knocked me to the ground, was studying religions. Scientifically, so it could have been pretty much anything that people hold sacred/tabu in any way. Not just actual religious stuff. But now, I see it like if I had been able to continue, I'd know what I'd be researching these days. It's just too obvious. It's the why - what's behind beliefs that people just won't give up no matter what. Or just, why is it okay to say I will handle my life, my problems, and if you come to me with your anxiety with the world horrors, I won't deal with you anymore at all. What's behind that. And why I lack that ability.
Okay, that's enough. Thank you again for all this work. And I didn't find this really confrontational, but my mind is deep in the horrors anyway so everything else seems pretty [edit: didn't mean what lukewarm means in this context and these conversations, and don't know what to change it into... sane?] now. The world's just gone completely mad.
🤔 One thing I learned as I got older was that you NEVER stop learning if your mind & heart remain open🤷 Christian-Zionists or "fundamental Christians" have the opposite in common = closed minds & closed hearts ⁉️ Having compassion for others despite our own troubles is what my simple Sunday School Christianity taught, and although I never took to religion, it still feels true as a humanitarian reaction to starving children ANYWHERE 🫂
This is a real problem for me now, I felt okay yesterday to write and now I'm slightly unhappy about how I said some things, and today I'm feeling quite ill. I tried to edit something but I just have to accept that I'm not always at my best when I *feel* like yes this the moment I need to say my thing. I just need to tell my OCD to sod off. I have a migraine, I can't do OCD right now.
Don't change a thing in what you wrote. It was honest and just what needed to be said.
Thank you. I think it's very clear at this point that I'm not used to being heard and understood, at all. 💙
Well, for what it's worth you are very easy to understand. But I also get your mindset, I have big ol' doses of OCD stuff too. I am just content knowing that I will never be content with anything I write or make :P
1) Worth everything.
2) That makes two of us, when I at least get that far, some day, maybe.
3) My first point was that people like you give me hope. Believe it, David.
😱 Hate to tell you this, but YES! It is YOU 🤷 Your comment was great & I had no problem understanding it - I have nothing but aroha 🫂💗 when you choose to share or comment - many of us here have our own struggles and don't judge anyways. You take care of you, you hear⁉️ I never knew I had mild OCD but like David I sometimes deliberately challenge it - go Sanelma 💪💪 (when your migraine is gone 👍)
Yes I know. 😄 It's all me. But, I just replied to (the other) David, where did it go? 🤔
Anyway, if it doesn't show up I'll have to write again. Serves me right, to make a mess of absolutely nothing.
Just to clarify, my Aspergers dx (still used here where I am, yeah), is the thing that makes me so ridiculous about the use of words. I have been learning to speak other people's language all my life and when I think I made a mistake even in a nuance type thing, it won't let go in my head. I'm actually (*they* say, not me) very talented linguistically, but not so much in everything else. That discrepancy is my forever-battle. Social anxiety, even when online, is really one of the worst for me.
You're such a darling. Thank you. 💜
Telling your "OCD to sod off" is like anything in life - it needs practice.
I remember when I used to hang the washing out I always used to have to use 2 identical pegs on the same item of clothing.
Now I sometimes deliberately use 2 different pegs (oh the horror) as a kind of "f*** you" to show my own OCD that I'm in control of my life and not it.
I also didn't see anything wrong with your original comment. It makes sense and I understood what you were saying.
(This reply decided to be independent, but let's try again where it should be.)
This made me cackle, "oh the horror", yes, exactly like that. That's me, that's what I do too. When it comes to language(s), it's more my neurodivergent stuff, because I'm so literal in what I say and also what I hear, that I can't tell the difference between my interpretation and others'. And when it's a second language, my OCD comes in and punches me in the head in the middle of the night and says "you stupid little girl (I'm 48) used the wrong word and now DF will think you meant his piece wasn't good".
Thank you. 🫶
Why are Christian leaders such odious twerps. And starving kids anywhere should worry everyone, and anyone who blocks aid is the enemy. The amount of hate and total lack of decency in this world is overwhelming and distressing.
Yet another group of people who conflate free speech with freedom from consequences of speech. I can only assume they do this intentionally as a way to justify their abhorrent behaviour.
Although, I am aligned with them on one point. I also wish God would come and take away the Christians. The torture and genocide of an entire people is where we differ.
That message from output envy is some of the most patronising holier than thou shit ive read in ages.
The volume of people purporting to have Christian, climate, community or even fundamental human values as central to their purpose but rationalise their own judgements, complacency and complicit behaviour in layers of word jumble bullshit is astonishing. Fuck. What the hell is going on.
What is happening in Gaza is something the world will be ashamed of for the rest of our life times and beyond. The fact there are so many people willing to support those who mock and dehumanise people being persecuted beyond belief, rather than showing any empathy and compassion for children dying in 2025 from a lack of food is so appalling my brain cannot cope with this.
I had to take a walk after reading it. And then another. So long, so warped, so insulting.
ChatGPT didn't help the vibe.
Great read thanks David! Also appreciate the link to World Kitchen, I have been wanting to help so started up a monthly donation. I couldn’t read though Output Envy’s whole statement, my brain kept on subbing in ‘blahblahblah’ instead of the words which is how I know it’s AI nonsense 😁
You fucking rock.
(And yeah, Output Envy's AI-generated output wanted me to throw my head through the wall).
It reads like the work of an energy vampire.
I keep feeling how disappointed these fundamental Zionist so called Christians would be if Jesus really came back cos he would be standing for the suffering of the Palestinians. I truly can’t understand how anyone could look at an image of a starving child and not think this is horrendous. My understanding of god and Jesus is he cared for the poor and the oppressed and not for the rich people practicing usury. These so called Christians are a real cancer on our planet.
💯 - this was my Note to support this article: "⁉️🤔 Nothing “Christian” about them if you believe (as they claim) that Jesus’ teachings are the foundation of how to behave 🤷 I truly wish he and his God-father were real so they could smite these fake christians & make them face the error of their ways by doing penance at food banks, Gaza field hospitals, refugee centres etc according to whatever life-work skills they have (apart from bigotry⁉️) "
They will run roughshod over every single one of Christ's talking points in order to make their apocalypse fanfic come true.
100%. I went from Christianity to Atheism over 20 years ago but I still think Jesus (regardless of whether or not he was real) had a good moral compass that I still follow to this day.
If Jesus really we're to come back to Israel, do these people really think he's going to look favourably on these Christian Fundies?
After all the suffering that's gone on there over the past few decades?
They need to f***ING read the new testament part of the bible!
I’d like to ask these Christians why they think Jesus would want to return to Israel after they have killed millions of people from
his homeland.