Chants of "Kill the gays" and a building gutted by fire. Suicide attempts and a school that speaks of God and love. What is happening in this New Zealand town?
You cannot claim to align to and live by dogma based in compassion and kindness and acceptance and do this.
We have to stop allowing institutions to hide behind "freedom of religious expression" as an excuse to justify persecution of anyone, for any reason outside of law (so still okay to judge rapists and murders and tax evaders etc).
You are entitled to beliefs and they do not have to he the same as everyone else's. But you should not be entitled to set up institutions based on these, with crown funding, when they undermine and belittle beautiful people just because you don't understand them. It is grotesque and hypocritical to the beliefs you claim inform your stance.
Just do better. Change is hard and scary and takes humility. But apparently Jesus was all about a challenge. So get amongst.
My heart hurts, this is so very very sad 😔 I can only hope that the attention will bring about some change and self reflection. Although I’m not holding my breath on that. Sending you heaps of love and solidarity as you report on this very heavy matter ❤️🩹
One note, and if I have this wrong I will stand corrected. It has been told to me that we no longer say “commit suicide” because it is language that goes back to a time when suicide was considered a crime or a sin. Rather we say “died by suicide” or “attempted suicide”. It was explained to me by way of saying one commits a crime, one dies by suicide. I hope that’s ok to say.
You’re our skinny chance of further reporting on these issues David. I clearly see the position of major mastheads in NZ, which is no to very minimal discussion. Please don’t lose hope despite how bleak it feels. I hope you know there are a lot of people standing firm behind you and even more vulnerable people could enjoy the fruit of your labour.
David, idk how you do these. It’s so exhausting. And it’s always during pride month. Every time they get reminded that we exist, they have to do everything in their power to remind us they do not see us as human. Your ewok analogy was spot on.
Pride Month is now just a reminder that everyone wants us dead. The anniversary of the Pulse shooting was Sunday, and I am still in such a shit headspace from it. I hate that it’s everywhere. I hate that nz kids can’t even have a safe center without being targeted. I hate feeling like i’m always a little in danger just for existing.
i’m bi, non binary, and did not grow up christian, but found my way to it at 19 (so i didn’t have all the brainwashing to unpack). The whole “god doesn’t make mistakes” thing has been such an affirming statement to me, god made me trans, god made me gay, god doesn’t make mistakes, and loves me just as i am. For people to weaponize that to the point it is driving people to suicide is gross. i am becoming more and more convinced that Evangelical Christianity is truly evil.
i’m glad you’re taking time for yourself. thank you for delving in even when it’s hard. even when it feels too close. Please step away and pat some good neighborhood cats if you need to. ♥️♥️♥️
Sam - thanks. Having Pulse in your mind is a lot. It should be so obvious how insidious this stuff is - as we have reminders all around us. Fires, shootings, hate crimes. And places like BC just carry on, with no realisation of the message they are giving future brains.
Also, a little positive LGBTQ+ news for everyone. The Sweat with Pride fundraiser has raised over $465,000 (NZD) so far this month. There are people out there walking the walk and supporting these communities. It's a little light amidst the hate.
Just thinking about the idea that "many Christians don’t truly understand LGBTQ people as real people." and turning it around in my head, I'm left wondering exactly who these evangelical/fundamentalist "christian" "leaders" do see as Real People.
Who makes John Cameron's list of Real People? Does his brother Brent fart in the face of Real People and chase them naked through hotels? Are their wives Real People, or are they hetronormative status symbols.
In the worst case, it seems that the abused and indoctrinated interns of Arise didn't even see *themselves* as Real People, deserving of care and nurturing.
Forgive my clunky thoughts. The specifics of this just seem to be yet another example of a more basic & pervasive thought pattern that simultaneously has justified racism and sexism. The fundamental belief that people are to be judged and categorized, considered less or more, in a made-up hierarchy. Power and control. A sick manifestation of what it seems to be we humans do, and have done, for millennia. People choose to behave in this way, they choose to believe this is right. Gloriavale is seen as some kind of perverse exception. No its not. It's just more obvious because it has a 'brand'. All of this is sick, it's fucked up and has been accepted as ok for too long. Lean into us David, we got your back on this. Thank you for your work, thank you for rattling me out of hopelessness
You will probably have seen the news of the suspected arson at the Tauranga Rainbow Youth centre. Which I am betting is a hate crime. I am so unsettled by how far the far-right (I suppose it's right there in the name) are willing to go with their vitriol and violence. It has me so worried for the queer community.
Interesting as well that the Bethlehem College document states "the school has a serious responsibility to protect against anything that could potentially harm a child". HOW can they write that, and be so blind as to completely miss that their very own ideology is harmful?
Middleton Grange (where I went to school) is the South Island's version of Bethlehem. They're "sister schools" if I recall correctly. I wonder if anything is going to come out of the woodwork about them next.
In light of all this, I have actually updated this newsletter entirely, and sent it out to the Webworm mailing list. Thanks for this. And thanks for reading.
If the school can't step back for a moment and see what is going on, then ugh - I just don't know.
There will be staff and students pushing back on this, which is encouraging - and the Ministry of Education, one hopes - but it's whether it will be enough to create any real change.
I went to Christs College also a so called Christian school and in the last twelve months or so we have had two emails around sexual abuse and bullying that happened at the school in the 70s by both pupils and a master. By the way I’m sure it wasn’t just the 70s. They wrote to all old boys to basically ask us not to comment to the media because they were dealing with it. They’ve done a masterful job of suppressing any publicity. The patriarchy hangs together very tightly when perceiving a threat.
My feedback to them was surprise that they considered this abuse exceptional enough to alert us to it. Having been humiliated by various teachers, having seen dozens of boys with black and purple bruising from caning, having been caned myself and regularly threatened with caning, having witnessed the brutal fagging system where older boys used younger boys as slaves I wasn’t remotely surprised by these revelations.
Of course this was a long time ago and Bethlehem College is now. What I have learnt in my long Christian walk is that religious Christian’s, as opposed to true followers of the teachings of Jesus, are desperately afraid of this thing they call sin, they are obsessed with it. It’s a reward based system you see and if you don’t meet the agreed standard(statement of faith) you go to Hell. The common denominator of these schools is that they are all fear based. It’s vital every one toes the party line read statement of faith again here.
So of course they use PR statements and manage carefully any truth seekers like you David. If they just simply acknowledged their mistakes that would require humility. To do that they would need to address their pride which is of course the greatest sin of all. Then what’s going to happen you guessed straight to the fiery furnace. You see it’s a totally dualistic system heaven hell right wrong black white deviate from the straight and narrow you simply don’t exist. How can someone be non binary. You can’t exist because you threaten their rightness. And maybe deep down they are not totally sure they really are right. But Doubt leads to the fire.
Thank you for this reporting David, and the hard work of everyone else getting this out into the light.
It’s horrifying and heart wrenching for this bigotry to have such a hold in communities, it is certainly a much bigger story than Bethlehem College.
Can’t help but feel the light growing dimmer in respect to LGBTQ+ rights, however I’m in the UK where we’re somehow getting more transphobic by the day - it’s exhausting.
Make sure to look after yourself.
P.S. this is completely unrelated, but thanks to your work and your Spotify playlist for NIN - I’m seeing them live for the first time tomorrow at the Eden Project in Cornwall, UK. I’m very excited to have a break and the opportunity to see them! So thanks once again
Coming back to say - the gig was amazing!! Don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it, pure energy through the whole set. Feeling very lucky indeed.
Music is my catharsis and I’m a big baby so cry at most gigs I go to from the emotional release. Also had a really fun time in the pit, everyone looking out for eachother.
I hope you get to see them later this year! Thanks again David
It seems the moment you pop the lid off on 1 thing, the flood gates open with a raging theme. Thank you so much David. I’ve become a paid member now as your work is critical. I live in Tauranga and staunchly support the LGBTQ community. As chair of the board of another school we’ve focused on our Inclusion Policy, Bullying Policy and now looking at Resilience. I feel our work here is now even more important.
David, you are truly fighting the good fight and people are listening. I will ensure I’m a vocal change agent. It’s the least I can do
Tauranga has a long history of narrow Pentecostal religiosity. Many churches and Bible schools there and throughout NZ taught that homosexuality was a spirit you needed to be delivered from, a demon that should be cast out.
And the petitions crying to allow BC "freedom of speech" start rolling on in. They can do it privately.
And not force people to sign a document saying they agree with them.
And not use my taxpayer money.
David that image you used in the recent American gun problem newsletter springs to mind. What guns were like when their amendments were written vs what guns are like now. The world has changed just a tad in the last 2000 years (or rather since King James dabbled in some editing in medieval times). Adapt to the times conservatives.
Also seems funny that they start going into genetics to prove a point. They might stray too far and learn about evolution by mistake!
Yeah - the freedom of speech thing is defo creeping in. But at a partially State-funded school where ideas are being pushed on kids that are telling them they are essentially deranged - I'm sorry, but free speech don't cut it.
AI have updated this piece to reflect a bunch of stuff - including BC refusing to answer any of my questions directly and doubling down on the "We are just stating what we believe! You do you!" non-sensical BS get-out-of-jail-free argument.
Sam I think it’s important to note that no one is being forced to sign that document. Parents choose to sign it when they enrol their kids .
To me the issues are that the extra part of the special character statement that was ‘snuck in’; that even if these statements were on the original statement of faith - are they tenants of Christianity (in my view no ) but I think it would be fair to argue they are of ‘their ‘ brand of Christianity; and finally and most importantly, that the students who may or may not have signed up to the statement start to come to a point where part or all of that statement is not what fits for them .
Thank you for all of your work dragging these things in to the light. These institutions think that they can create their own realities and then impose them on anyone who falls into their net. Special Character my arse. They are just using religion as a tool to force people to match their precious reality, irregardless of the damage it does. It's so important to shatter that bubble, cut off their finances and expose them to loud public shaming.
It hurts my heart to see so much hatred, and especially to see it aimed at children. It seems we are reaching the sort of societal tipping point that pops up throughout history - progressive ideas gain ground, marginalised people gain acceptance, then some sort of social trauma hits and people close in, become reactionary and lash out at anything "other". This time it is Rainbow communities in the firing line, and we are learning just how fragile the gains made towards equal rights and a place in society really are. We need to fight tooth and nail to protect them. We have become too tolerant of intolerance.
I'm feeling a bit hopeful about the kind of societal tipping point we are reaching. It seems like the public is starting to say "no more," it's not OK for churches to keep causing harm in dark corners away from scrutiny. There will be some in those corners who lash out when they realise their power is being threatened, but there will also be people with the potential to become allies, once they start to realise how people are being harmed. It seemed like there was a political shift too, with the conversion practices consultation and debates. Most MPs are no longer willing to give religious organisations a free pass on the bases of their beliefs.
Thanks Fionnaigh. I too believe that we are past the tipping point and that in NZ. But this is not to say that it is over or to downplay any of the pain and trauma that is being experienced by the community now. In any war or regime downfall some of the most brutal and ugly things happen at the end…as the power is slipping away. Maybe this is what is happening now. We do need to keep the pressure on and eradicate these ‘last stand’ people, but also to acknowledge how far we have come as a society in a relatively short time. Many (and maybe most New Zealanders) sit between tolerant to supportive of the LGBTQ community and especially younger kiwis. Yes, it could be better, but if you are despairing by focusing on the ugly views of the Pentecostal segment of society, please know that there are many kiwis that are supporters…maybe they have not been as vocal/obvious but they are there.
We can interpret "God doesn't make mistakes" in a gender affirming way.
You cannot claim to align to and live by dogma based in compassion and kindness and acceptance and do this.
We have to stop allowing institutions to hide behind "freedom of religious expression" as an excuse to justify persecution of anyone, for any reason outside of law (so still okay to judge rapists and murders and tax evaders etc).
You are entitled to beliefs and they do not have to he the same as everyone else's. But you should not be entitled to set up institutions based on these, with crown funding, when they undermine and belittle beautiful people just because you don't understand them. It is grotesque and hypocritical to the beliefs you claim inform your stance.
Just do better. Change is hard and scary and takes humility. But apparently Jesus was all about a challenge. So get amongst.
A colleague said yesterday that Christianity and missionaries didn't have anything to do with colonisation in Aotearoa.
I had to use all the will in my body not to shout "Are you fucking kidding me!?"
The hold the Church and Christianity has over this country is bizarre.
Jesus wept. Oof.
Charlotte, I'm aghast!
My heart hurts, this is so very very sad 😔 I can only hope that the attention will bring about some change and self reflection. Although I’m not holding my breath on that. Sending you heaps of love and solidarity as you report on this very heavy matter ❤️🩹
One note, and if I have this wrong I will stand corrected. It has been told to me that we no longer say “commit suicide” because it is language that goes back to a time when suicide was considered a crime or a sin. Rather we say “died by suicide” or “attempted suicide”. It was explained to me by way of saying one commits a crime, one dies by suicide. I hope that’s ok to say.
Looking at Arise (still) - I think self reflection is next to impossible. I really do.
The more I report on this stuff, the more bleak it feels.
You’re our skinny chance of further reporting on these issues David. I clearly see the position of major mastheads in NZ, which is no to very minimal discussion. Please don’t lose hope despite how bleak it feels. I hope you know there are a lot of people standing firm behind you and even more vulnerable people could enjoy the fruit of your labour.
I agree David :-(
Kia ora, thanks for this Rachael, and you don't have it wrong! People commit crime, so using that word reinforces some of the stigma. https://www.camh.ca/-/media/files/words-matter-suicide-language-guide.pdf
My heart surges with pride seeing how much the words “webworm”, “farrier” and “Shaneel Lal” rattle these old dinosaurs.
Shaneel is bold and brave. Wish I had that at their age. I was miles away from it.
Shaneel is galvanized, no doubt, by vivid memories.
David, idk how you do these. It’s so exhausting. And it’s always during pride month. Every time they get reminded that we exist, they have to do everything in their power to remind us they do not see us as human. Your ewok analogy was spot on.
Pride Month is now just a reminder that everyone wants us dead. The anniversary of the Pulse shooting was Sunday, and I am still in such a shit headspace from it. I hate that it’s everywhere. I hate that nz kids can’t even have a safe center without being targeted. I hate feeling like i’m always a little in danger just for existing.
i’m bi, non binary, and did not grow up christian, but found my way to it at 19 (so i didn’t have all the brainwashing to unpack). The whole “god doesn’t make mistakes” thing has been such an affirming statement to me, god made me trans, god made me gay, god doesn’t make mistakes, and loves me just as i am. For people to weaponize that to the point it is driving people to suicide is gross. i am becoming more and more convinced that Evangelical Christianity is truly evil.
i’m glad you’re taking time for yourself. thank you for delving in even when it’s hard. even when it feels too close. Please step away and pat some good neighborhood cats if you need to. ♥️♥️♥️
Sam - thanks. Having Pulse in your mind is a lot. It should be so obvious how insidious this stuff is - as we have reminders all around us. Fires, shootings, hate crimes. And places like BC just carry on, with no realisation of the message they are giving future brains.
Horrible.
Bless you Sam. You are so right God doesn't make mistakes - you are seen and loved, just as I am, Just as we all are.
Also, a little positive LGBTQ+ news for everyone. The Sweat with Pride fundraiser has raised over $465,000 (NZD) so far this month. There are people out there walking the walk and supporting these communities. It's a little light amidst the hate.
Fucking Amen to that.
Just thinking about the idea that "many Christians don’t truly understand LGBTQ people as real people." and turning it around in my head, I'm left wondering exactly who these evangelical/fundamentalist "christian" "leaders" do see as Real People.
Who makes John Cameron's list of Real People? Does his brother Brent fart in the face of Real People and chase them naked through hotels? Are their wives Real People, or are they hetronormative status symbols.
In the worst case, it seems that the abused and indoctrinated interns of Arise didn't even see *themselves* as Real People, deserving of care and nurturing.
It's all bloody sad really.
Forgive my clunky thoughts. The specifics of this just seem to be yet another example of a more basic & pervasive thought pattern that simultaneously has justified racism and sexism. The fundamental belief that people are to be judged and categorized, considered less or more, in a made-up hierarchy. Power and control. A sick manifestation of what it seems to be we humans do, and have done, for millennia. People choose to behave in this way, they choose to believe this is right. Gloriavale is seen as some kind of perverse exception. No its not. It's just more obvious because it has a 'brand'. All of this is sick, it's fucked up and has been accepted as ok for too long. Lean into us David, we got your back on this. Thank you for your work, thank you for rattling me out of hopelessness
You got it. You really did.
"Another example of a more basic & pervasive thought pattern that simultaneously has justified racism and sexism."
You will probably have seen the news of the suspected arson at the Tauranga Rainbow Youth centre. Which I am betting is a hate crime. I am so unsettled by how far the far-right (I suppose it's right there in the name) are willing to go with their vitriol and violence. It has me so worried for the queer community.
Interesting as well that the Bethlehem College document states "the school has a serious responsibility to protect against anything that could potentially harm a child". HOW can they write that, and be so blind as to completely miss that their very own ideology is harmful?
Middleton Grange (where I went to school) is the South Island's version of Bethlehem. They're "sister schools" if I recall correctly. I wonder if anything is going to come out of the woodwork about them next.
In light of all this, I have actually updated this newsletter entirely, and sent it out to the Webworm mailing list. Thanks for this. And thanks for reading.
If the school can't step back for a moment and see what is going on, then ugh - I just don't know.
There will be staff and students pushing back on this, which is encouraging - and the Ministry of Education, one hopes - but it's whether it will be enough to create any real change.
Or will it just double-down? Hmm. Reaction, or action coming from a place of understanding?
I went to Christs College also a so called Christian school and in the last twelve months or so we have had two emails around sexual abuse and bullying that happened at the school in the 70s by both pupils and a master. By the way I’m sure it wasn’t just the 70s. They wrote to all old boys to basically ask us not to comment to the media because they were dealing with it. They’ve done a masterful job of suppressing any publicity. The patriarchy hangs together very tightly when perceiving a threat.
My feedback to them was surprise that they considered this abuse exceptional enough to alert us to it. Having been humiliated by various teachers, having seen dozens of boys with black and purple bruising from caning, having been caned myself and regularly threatened with caning, having witnessed the brutal fagging system where older boys used younger boys as slaves I wasn’t remotely surprised by these revelations.
Of course this was a long time ago and Bethlehem College is now. What I have learnt in my long Christian walk is that religious Christian’s, as opposed to true followers of the teachings of Jesus, are desperately afraid of this thing they call sin, they are obsessed with it. It’s a reward based system you see and if you don’t meet the agreed standard(statement of faith) you go to Hell. The common denominator of these schools is that they are all fear based. It’s vital every one toes the party line read statement of faith again here.
So of course they use PR statements and manage carefully any truth seekers like you David. If they just simply acknowledged their mistakes that would require humility. To do that they would need to address their pride which is of course the greatest sin of all. Then what’s going to happen you guessed straight to the fiery furnace. You see it’s a totally dualistic system heaven hell right wrong black white deviate from the straight and narrow you simply don’t exist. How can someone be non binary. You can’t exist because you threaten their rightness. And maybe deep down they are not totally sure they really are right. But Doubt leads to the fire.
See it’s complicated!!
Thank you for this reporting David, and the hard work of everyone else getting this out into the light.
It’s horrifying and heart wrenching for this bigotry to have such a hold in communities, it is certainly a much bigger story than Bethlehem College.
Can’t help but feel the light growing dimmer in respect to LGBTQ+ rights, however I’m in the UK where we’re somehow getting more transphobic by the day - it’s exhausting.
Make sure to look after yourself.
P.S. this is completely unrelated, but thanks to your work and your Spotify playlist for NIN - I’m seeing them live for the first time tomorrow at the Eden Project in Cornwall, UK. I’m very excited to have a break and the opportunity to see them! So thanks once again
Let me know how the gig goes - I'm jealous. Hope to catch them later this year. Let loose. That shit is cathartic.
Coming back to say - the gig was amazing!! Don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it, pure energy through the whole set. Feeling very lucky indeed.
Music is my catharsis and I’m a big baby so cry at most gigs I go to from the emotional release. Also had a really fun time in the pit, everyone looking out for eachother.
I hope you get to see them later this year! Thanks again David
It seems the moment you pop the lid off on 1 thing, the flood gates open with a raging theme. Thank you so much David. I’ve become a paid member now as your work is critical. I live in Tauranga and staunchly support the LGBTQ community. As chair of the board of another school we’ve focused on our Inclusion Policy, Bullying Policy and now looking at Resilience. I feel our work here is now even more important.
David, you are truly fighting the good fight and people are listening. I will ensure I’m a vocal change agent. It’s the least I can do
Deanna - I've heard so many dark things about Tauranga this week, this is so encouraging.
Thank you.
After Arise I did not want more of this. Then things hit very close to home. And here we are.
That's awesome Deanna, kia kaha
Tauranga has a long history of narrow Pentecostal religiosity. Many churches and Bible schools there and throughout NZ taught that homosexuality was a spirit you needed to be delivered from, a demon that should be cast out.
And the petitions crying to allow BC "freedom of speech" start rolling on in. They can do it privately.
And not force people to sign a document saying they agree with them.
And not use my taxpayer money.
David that image you used in the recent American gun problem newsletter springs to mind. What guns were like when their amendments were written vs what guns are like now. The world has changed just a tad in the last 2000 years (or rather since King James dabbled in some editing in medieval times). Adapt to the times conservatives.
Also seems funny that they start going into genetics to prove a point. They might stray too far and learn about evolution by mistake!
Yeah - the freedom of speech thing is defo creeping in. But at a partially State-funded school where ideas are being pushed on kids that are telling them they are essentially deranged - I'm sorry, but free speech don't cut it.
AI have updated this piece to reflect a bunch of stuff - including BC refusing to answer any of my questions directly and doubling down on the "We are just stating what we believe! You do you!" non-sensical BS get-out-of-jail-free argument.
Sam I think it’s important to note that no one is being forced to sign that document. Parents choose to sign it when they enrol their kids .
To me the issues are that the extra part of the special character statement that was ‘snuck in’; that even if these statements were on the original statement of faith - are they tenants of Christianity (in my view no ) but I think it would be fair to argue they are of ‘their ‘ brand of Christianity; and finally and most importantly, that the students who may or may not have signed up to the statement start to come to a point where part or all of that statement is not what fits for them .
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/469221/rainbow-youth-tauranga-drop-in-centre-destroyed-in-suspicious-fire
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/tauranga-lgbtqia-advocate-gordy-lockhart-says-allegations-made-in-email-to-employer-are-false/3EMR3F5ECQ5JZYP45HPQAWSNLM/?c_id=1&objectid=12531369&ref=rss
I wonder if all these things are related? Something seriously wrong happening in Tauranga right now
This is so incredibly sad. No words.
Thank you for all of your work dragging these things in to the light. These institutions think that they can create their own realities and then impose them on anyone who falls into their net. Special Character my arse. They are just using religion as a tool to force people to match their precious reality, irregardless of the damage it does. It's so important to shatter that bubble, cut off their finances and expose them to loud public shaming.
It hurts my heart to see so much hatred, and especially to see it aimed at children. It seems we are reaching the sort of societal tipping point that pops up throughout history - progressive ideas gain ground, marginalised people gain acceptance, then some sort of social trauma hits and people close in, become reactionary and lash out at anything "other". This time it is Rainbow communities in the firing line, and we are learning just how fragile the gains made towards equal rights and a place in society really are. We need to fight tooth and nail to protect them. We have become too tolerant of intolerance.
I'm feeling a bit hopeful about the kind of societal tipping point we are reaching. It seems like the public is starting to say "no more," it's not OK for churches to keep causing harm in dark corners away from scrutiny. There will be some in those corners who lash out when they realise their power is being threatened, but there will also be people with the potential to become allies, once they start to realise how people are being harmed. It seemed like there was a political shift too, with the conversion practices consultation and debates. Most MPs are no longer willing to give religious organisations a free pass on the bases of their beliefs.
Thanks Fionnaigh. I too believe that we are past the tipping point and that in NZ. But this is not to say that it is over or to downplay any of the pain and trauma that is being experienced by the community now. In any war or regime downfall some of the most brutal and ugly things happen at the end…as the power is slipping away. Maybe this is what is happening now. We do need to keep the pressure on and eradicate these ‘last stand’ people, but also to acknowledge how far we have come as a society in a relatively short time. Many (and maybe most New Zealanders) sit between tolerant to supportive of the LGBTQ community and especially younger kiwis. Yes, it could be better, but if you are despairing by focusing on the ugly views of the Pentecostal segment of society, please know that there are many kiwis that are supporters…maybe they have not been as vocal/obvious but they are there.
I really hope it's a tipping point. I mean, just to see Bethlehem College reported on is encouraging.
That didn't happen when I went.
Yes, good to remember that collectively we are all moving forward, there are just a few vocal groups trying to drag us back.