As a sister, cousin, niece, and friend of gay individuals places like BC hurt my heart. The problem I have with religious institutions, especially Christian based, is that they throw out bible verses claiming they are the word of God. God didn't write the bible. Man did. Man is fallible. Also, it's always some how lost on today's Christians that the bible has been edited so many times over the years to suit the agenda of whoever was in power at the time. Most of the real works have either been surpressed or edited so many times that the real meaning has been lost over time. I do agree with the basis of Christianity and I also believe in the basis of a lot of other religions. However, religion has always been used as a scare tactic to keep people in line or to push a certain person or persons agendas. We don't need the bible to tell us how to live a good life. It's simple. Don't be a dick. Respect other people how you would like to be respected. It's not hard to be a good person. Being a good person is not about being perfect. It's about doing the best we can, admitting when we mess up, and trying to be a better person today than you were yesterday. 💗✌️
This podcast I mentioned awhile back is really good on this - it's a Christian hosting it, who really looks at the context of those verses and the Bible. It's solid. Nothing you don't know, but still a good listen: https://intheshift.podbean.com/e/24-in-the-flesh-lgbtqi/
Growing up in Auckland in the 1970s I hid my true gender identity. My parents were religous and I had to go to church every Sunday (until I rebelled aged 16). Luckily I went to a state school but had to do religious school night once a week at our local church (at about age 14 I got in trouble for questioning the logistics of all the animals on Noah's ark). Except for a year when I went flatting before returning home, I hid my gender expression from almost everyone almost all of the time. I was sometimes depressed and suicidal-thinking there was something wrong with me. The only real life trans role models were prostitutes and strippers and glamourous TV acts who were treated as a bit of fun. Trans and gay people were objects of ridicule on TV shows and in movies were depicted as perverts. There was no legal protection-police could harass you and arrest you if you dressed differently to the norm of your biological sex. Midnight screenings of the Rocky Horror Picture Show at the Hollywood in Avondale were one of the few opportunities to be free. Without that, a few sympathetic close friends and counselling from Youthline I would have been dead long before now. In my early twenties I moved to Wellington. Outside work hours I sometimes pushed the restrictive boundaries of what was acceptable for men to wear. I finally came out as trans at the age of 55 (over 5 years ago). Not to everyone in my life, but at work and to most people. No young person (or adult) should have to hide that they are trans or gay today for fear of ridicule or violence. It is shameful that religious schools are getting away with anti gay and anti trans rules. That is illegal under current laws. They need to lose all of their state funding and be forced to drop the clauses from their contracts. Sadly in Aotearoa/New Zealand we are now visibly seeing the same type of anti-LGBTIA+ people, racists, conspiracy nuts, anti-vaxxers, gun rights proponents, etc., as in the USA.
Peter - I don't need to say this - but gosh you're wonderful. I remember going to the bookstore in Tauranga to put your book on special order back in the day - long before we met. I am glad we're friends. Smart, sincere, honest and kind. Thank you.
Thanks, David. I appreciate you saying that. Working on the updated, revised version and three companion books. It will take me a while yet but I will do it!
Thank you for sharing. I reckon 55 is really brave; I can't imagine that long a struggle. The recent uptick of entitlement in brazen nutjobs is indeed (at least partly) America's worst export. I am appalled we give state funding - our dollars that we earn and supposedly provide to the government to distribute according to democratic values - so these institutions can do whatever and our hope is that children will survive them. None of this is ok but we sure af should not be paying for it.
Thanks, Nicole. I often feel scared rather than brave but it was worth it to go public. I agree that we need to fight against them-economically as well.
Most all of this resonates with me. Except for me, growing up in a small rural town in NZ in the early 60s,I didn’t know one single gay person.I thought I was the only guy in the world who had crushes on other guys.
Hi, Denis. It felt like that for me, too. In some ways it is easier for LGBTI+ youth today But there is also a lot of hatred and discrimination out there as well. The fights are by no means over.
I basically grew up in an evangelical church. Thankfully I came to my senses as a young adult and left the church. The thing is... you can’t fucking win against these churches. If things were going well then it’s praise the lord, he’s rewarding your faithfulness. If things were going shit, it’s also praise the lord, he’s testing your faith! If an agnostic/ atheist criticises them then it’s an attack from the devil! If their own church member criticises them, then they’re a lost sheep and must be prayed for. The whole thing is non-sensible and self-fulfilling. There’s no space for being open, for learning, for apologies. It’s fucking depressing.
There are a lot of “good” people out there who are Christians. I just don’t believe you can cherry pick the good part of Christianity and ignore the total disregard for human rights. It’s delusional.
So frustrating that Paul Shakes keeps insisting that he BC doesn't mean to be hurtful and that it's not personal. We're talking about people, so of course it's personal. It's such an annoying defense to hide behind.
I had visions of God rushing downstairs in his dressing gown, unkempt beard and flailing white hair, saying things like "Oh my Me, what's going on, what's all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here!"
Later, in my mind, the dressing gown became a dress and all hell broke loose.
Ro Brights words painted such a clear picture of the pain and damage these kids have to endure and process without support. What a great contribution. It’s disgusting the schools have no desire to help these children, and in fact would rather deny their very existence than offer them any love or support. And you’re right David, the very very fact that these institutions are so righteous in their bigotry only empowers the bullies, these kids must feel absolutely terrified of who they are and what they are feeling. I feel so incredibly sad and angry, and just useless. I hope that just the fact they had to hold an assembly to pray about the negative attention meant some curious students have found their way to this site and can hear from normal grounded people from all walks of life all over the world that their feelings are valid and they are loved and supported. I’m not religious, in any possible way, but my Mum did have me read kids versions of the bible growing up and while I detested it I did think Jesus sounded like a cool dude, he didn’t seem to fit in with a lot of the maniacs he was surrounded by. I really don’t think he would be happy with any of this or how these children are being treated. I’m sure they would tell me how wrong I am and quote a bunch of bollocks to back up their extremism, but to me they’ve taken their precious words of god and twisted them till it suits all their own needs for control and power. I get why you end up hating people, I can’t deny I fucking hate these bullies. These kids need love and support, and these extremist need to no longer be funded.
Sorry you’re hurt, you evil non-person. Jesus wept. Having witnessed the denial, trauma, near death and final acceptance of their sexuality by someone I love beyond words, BC’s total rejection of diversity sticks in my craw. As Ro so acutely observes, there’s blood on those hands.
Thanks Anna. Ro is so on-point with the blood on hands thing. As I said in an earlier newsletter - a kid committed suicide at BC while I attended, and yeah - there are reasons.
I can only hope that with time attitudes and belief systems like these are going to die out. Despite what this school and others are teaching, the world exists as it is. You leave school, you see the world and you learn, and you hopefully find your place. Hardcore Christian beliefs might weaken over time as generations grow and learn and evolve. That’s what I hope anyway.
For now, it’s on the parents to know their children. I have a child about to start high school next year. He’s always been fluid, preferring ‘typically female’ toys, colours and clothing as a very wee thing. He’s changed and bounced about a bit over the years, never saying specifically anything about any of this, and we’ve always accepted it all and just loved him. Who knows where he is headed? I’m looking forward to finding out. In the meantime though I was NEVER going to send him to EVEN a same sex school. Let alone a religious one. Even if it was the very best academically. Those years are so formative. Acceptance is everything. He can learn anywhere. He can’t be accepted for who he is and find a likeminded little tribe just anywhere. I know him and I know the coed school we chose is right for him. He will never feel he isn’t good enough just how he is, if I have anything to do with it.
I’m not religious but I like to think that even if I was, my love for my kids would supersede those feelings.
I just don't see the need for the parents to sign something like that on behalf of their developing children that should be free to grow and learn and make decisions for themselves on what they believe and what they feel.
Just as people believe that Jesus came and died for our sins and the books written are correct word for word, why is it so hard to believe that what you are doing is causing harm and is actually happening real time?
A lot of people have an ingrained sense that as long as they didn’t have a ‘bad’ intent, they are not responsible for the harm they cause. I think it’s a delusion that is extremely common and not limited to religious groups. But these huge, brainwashed Christian organisations are one of the places where this belief becomes the most dangerous.
I’m not sure, I try not to think about these people as a whole too much, but I’ve been trying to be a better person myself, to actively take responsibility for my actions and words and act according to my true values… it takes a lot of courage and challenging yourself… but when you start with yourself it becomes easier to influence others to similarly take responsibility I think? Anyway this was a ramble. Thanks for the great piece.
It is so disappointing at a heart, soul and spiritual level. This is simply a man made construct built on pride coming from an uneducated few believing a post Jesus flawed ideology. It’s got nothing to do with love and belonging which is the core a Jesus centric approach.
Man made bullshit that lacks justice, mercy and humility. It Fucks me right off!
My wife Amanda has just released her web site in NZ to tackle the non-inclusive culture. To educate and get quality information to schools, parents, young people and churches. She is waiting for her stoning :)
I havent been commenting lately because I have been too infuriated with the way that Shakes dismisses you with such a pathetic non-excuse. Churches and these schools have so much in common but it feels like the school is worse because there are young people there, vulnerable people who are questioning/discovering their identity, and for the most part wasnt really their choice to attend.. but then you could say the same with these mega churches. Okay - they are equally bad. I just know now that religious institutions have no place in modern society especially those who fucking gaslight (excuse my language) about inclusivity and openness but have a very straight (pun intended) and narrow definition that it enforces. They are really the most unchristian of values. It really breaks my heart because I grew up catholic and though not really what you'd call practicing, I have a personal relationship with god (which btw christians will say isnt enough...). My family is still ingrained in the church and Im terrified because I dont know how I will get them to be okay with me not raising my kid in the church or in a religious school.
Ps happy matariki whereever you are. Hope you have a restful day with friends and/or whanau.
Jesus had some words for those who like to dilute their toxic views by saying “special military operation “ and “it is not our intent to hurt” and “love the sinner, hate the sin” - he said: “Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness. ”
He called them “a brood of vipers” and “a den of thieves!”
The thing that annoys me, even more than the bigoted attitude to sexuality and gender, is that these institutions are not geared up for learning at all. They base their entire being on a fallacy, an imaginary being that you have to believe in without proof or evidence. If that attitude was applied to other subjects they would be an abject failure as a learning institution.
I like it how the college says they are proud of you for all the 'notable' things you have achieved. Subtext: this present stuff you are bringing to light is not ' notable'. It's like an egotistical wrap over the knuckles sent your way. With love of course :)
Side note - Love Daffodils! Even more amazing Ro managed to achieve this despite the experience of BC
Quote from BC kid aged 13 years old this week “the media are lying, our school allowed those kids to protest”… this is what they were told at school to explain what is happening.
Possibly, I tried not to probe too much (they’re just a kid after all - unlike BC, I recognise that space should be made for this topic - especially for children). I came away unclear if the message was grown through BC peers, parents or staff. Clearly it’s cultivation through BC culture was evident though.
As a sister, cousin, niece, and friend of gay individuals places like BC hurt my heart. The problem I have with religious institutions, especially Christian based, is that they throw out bible verses claiming they are the word of God. God didn't write the bible. Man did. Man is fallible. Also, it's always some how lost on today's Christians that the bible has been edited so many times over the years to suit the agenda of whoever was in power at the time. Most of the real works have either been surpressed or edited so many times that the real meaning has been lost over time. I do agree with the basis of Christianity and I also believe in the basis of a lot of other religions. However, religion has always been used as a scare tactic to keep people in line or to push a certain person or persons agendas. We don't need the bible to tell us how to live a good life. It's simple. Don't be a dick. Respect other people how you would like to be respected. It's not hard to be a good person. Being a good person is not about being perfect. It's about doing the best we can, admitting when we mess up, and trying to be a better person today than you were yesterday. 💗✌️
All of this.
This podcast I mentioned awhile back is really good on this - it's a Christian hosting it, who really looks at the context of those verses and the Bible. It's solid. Nothing you don't know, but still a good listen: https://intheshift.podbean.com/e/24-in-the-flesh-lgbtqi/
Thanks! I'll give it a listen. 💗
"Don't be a dick" is one of my favourite mantras! Nice and simple to live by :-)
I know, right? It really is that simple. It's a shame that a lot of people don't understand this.
Growing up in Auckland in the 1970s I hid my true gender identity. My parents were religous and I had to go to church every Sunday (until I rebelled aged 16). Luckily I went to a state school but had to do religious school night once a week at our local church (at about age 14 I got in trouble for questioning the logistics of all the animals on Noah's ark). Except for a year when I went flatting before returning home, I hid my gender expression from almost everyone almost all of the time. I was sometimes depressed and suicidal-thinking there was something wrong with me. The only real life trans role models were prostitutes and strippers and glamourous TV acts who were treated as a bit of fun. Trans and gay people were objects of ridicule on TV shows and in movies were depicted as perverts. There was no legal protection-police could harass you and arrest you if you dressed differently to the norm of your biological sex. Midnight screenings of the Rocky Horror Picture Show at the Hollywood in Avondale were one of the few opportunities to be free. Without that, a few sympathetic close friends and counselling from Youthline I would have been dead long before now. In my early twenties I moved to Wellington. Outside work hours I sometimes pushed the restrictive boundaries of what was acceptable for men to wear. I finally came out as trans at the age of 55 (over 5 years ago). Not to everyone in my life, but at work and to most people. No young person (or adult) should have to hide that they are trans or gay today for fear of ridicule or violence. It is shameful that religious schools are getting away with anti gay and anti trans rules. That is illegal under current laws. They need to lose all of their state funding and be forced to drop the clauses from their contracts. Sadly in Aotearoa/New Zealand we are now visibly seeing the same type of anti-LGBTIA+ people, racists, conspiracy nuts, anti-vaxxers, gun rights proponents, etc., as in the USA.
Peter - I don't need to say this - but gosh you're wonderful. I remember going to the bookstore in Tauranga to put your book on special order back in the day - long before we met. I am glad we're friends. Smart, sincere, honest and kind. Thank you.
Thanks, David. I appreciate you saying that. Working on the updated, revised version and three companion books. It will take me a while yet but I will do it!
Thank you for sharing. I reckon 55 is really brave; I can't imagine that long a struggle. The recent uptick of entitlement in brazen nutjobs is indeed (at least partly) America's worst export. I am appalled we give state funding - our dollars that we earn and supposedly provide to the government to distribute according to democratic values - so these institutions can do whatever and our hope is that children will survive them. None of this is ok but we sure af should not be paying for it.
Thanks, Nicole. I often feel scared rather than brave but it was worth it to go public. I agree that we need to fight against them-economically as well.
Thanks for sharing your story ❤️
Thanks, Ali. I'm nothing special but thought it might help someone to know.
Most all of this resonates with me. Except for me, growing up in a small rural town in NZ in the early 60s,I didn’t know one single gay person.I thought I was the only guy in the world who had crushes on other guys.
Hi, Denis. It felt like that for me, too. In some ways it is easier for LGBTI+ youth today But there is also a lot of hatred and discrimination out there as well. The fights are by no means over.
❤️
I basically grew up in an evangelical church. Thankfully I came to my senses as a young adult and left the church. The thing is... you can’t fucking win against these churches. If things were going well then it’s praise the lord, he’s rewarding your faithfulness. If things were going shit, it’s also praise the lord, he’s testing your faith! If an agnostic/ atheist criticises them then it’s an attack from the devil! If their own church member criticises them, then they’re a lost sheep and must be prayed for. The whole thing is non-sensible and self-fulfilling. There’s no space for being open, for learning, for apologies. It’s fucking depressing.
There are a lot of “good” people out there who are Christians. I just don’t believe you can cherry pick the good part of Christianity and ignore the total disregard for human rights. It’s delusional.
So frustrating that Paul Shakes keeps insisting that he BC doesn't mean to be hurtful and that it's not personal. We're talking about people, so of course it's personal. It's such an annoying defense to hide behind.
I had to laugh at "urgent prayer meetings".
I had visions of God rushing downstairs in his dressing gown, unkempt beard and flailing white hair, saying things like "Oh my Me, what's going on, what's all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here!"
Later, in my mind, the dressing gown became a dress and all hell broke loose.
Ro Brights words painted such a clear picture of the pain and damage these kids have to endure and process without support. What a great contribution. It’s disgusting the schools have no desire to help these children, and in fact would rather deny their very existence than offer them any love or support. And you’re right David, the very very fact that these institutions are so righteous in their bigotry only empowers the bullies, these kids must feel absolutely terrified of who they are and what they are feeling. I feel so incredibly sad and angry, and just useless. I hope that just the fact they had to hold an assembly to pray about the negative attention meant some curious students have found their way to this site and can hear from normal grounded people from all walks of life all over the world that their feelings are valid and they are loved and supported. I’m not religious, in any possible way, but my Mum did have me read kids versions of the bible growing up and while I detested it I did think Jesus sounded like a cool dude, he didn’t seem to fit in with a lot of the maniacs he was surrounded by. I really don’t think he would be happy with any of this or how these children are being treated. I’m sure they would tell me how wrong I am and quote a bunch of bollocks to back up their extremism, but to me they’ve taken their precious words of god and twisted them till it suits all their own needs for control and power. I get why you end up hating people, I can’t deny I fucking hate these bullies. These kids need love and support, and these extremist need to no longer be funded.
Sorry you’re hurt, you evil non-person. Jesus wept. Having witnessed the denial, trauma, near death and final acceptance of their sexuality by someone I love beyond words, BC’s total rejection of diversity sticks in my craw. As Ro so acutely observes, there’s blood on those hands.
Thanks Anna. Ro is so on-point with the blood on hands thing. As I said in an earlier newsletter - a kid committed suicide at BC while I attended, and yeah - there are reasons.
I can only hope that with time attitudes and belief systems like these are going to die out. Despite what this school and others are teaching, the world exists as it is. You leave school, you see the world and you learn, and you hopefully find your place. Hardcore Christian beliefs might weaken over time as generations grow and learn and evolve. That’s what I hope anyway.
For now, it’s on the parents to know their children. I have a child about to start high school next year. He’s always been fluid, preferring ‘typically female’ toys, colours and clothing as a very wee thing. He’s changed and bounced about a bit over the years, never saying specifically anything about any of this, and we’ve always accepted it all and just loved him. Who knows where he is headed? I’m looking forward to finding out. In the meantime though I was NEVER going to send him to EVEN a same sex school. Let alone a religious one. Even if it was the very best academically. Those years are so formative. Acceptance is everything. He can learn anywhere. He can’t be accepted for who he is and find a likeminded little tribe just anywhere. I know him and I know the coed school we chose is right for him. He will never feel he isn’t good enough just how he is, if I have anything to do with it.
I’m not religious but I like to think that even if I was, my love for my kids would supersede those feelings.
I just don't see the need for the parents to sign something like that on behalf of their developing children that should be free to grow and learn and make decisions for themselves on what they believe and what they feel.
Just as people believe that Jesus came and died for our sins and the books written are correct word for word, why is it so hard to believe that what you are doing is causing harm and is actually happening real time?
A lot of people have an ingrained sense that as long as they didn’t have a ‘bad’ intent, they are not responsible for the harm they cause. I think it’s a delusion that is extremely common and not limited to religious groups. But these huge, brainwashed Christian organisations are one of the places where this belief becomes the most dangerous.
I’m not sure, I try not to think about these people as a whole too much, but I’ve been trying to be a better person myself, to actively take responsibility for my actions and words and act according to my true values… it takes a lot of courage and challenging yourself… but when you start with yourself it becomes easier to influence others to similarly take responsibility I think? Anyway this was a ramble. Thanks for the great piece.
Thinking and clocking your own individual actions is huge. If only the people in these institutions could do that. If only.
It is so disappointing at a heart, soul and spiritual level. This is simply a man made construct built on pride coming from an uneducated few believing a post Jesus flawed ideology. It’s got nothing to do with love and belonging which is the core a Jesus centric approach.
Man made bullshit that lacks justice, mercy and humility. It Fucks me right off!
So glad you are stepping into this.
Aroha Nui David.
My wife Amanda has just released her web site in NZ to tackle the non-inclusive culture. To educate and get quality information to schools, parents, young people and churches. She is waiting for her stoning :)
Www.alreadyenough.co.nz
I havent been commenting lately because I have been too infuriated with the way that Shakes dismisses you with such a pathetic non-excuse. Churches and these schools have so much in common but it feels like the school is worse because there are young people there, vulnerable people who are questioning/discovering their identity, and for the most part wasnt really their choice to attend.. but then you could say the same with these mega churches. Okay - they are equally bad. I just know now that religious institutions have no place in modern society especially those who fucking gaslight (excuse my language) about inclusivity and openness but have a very straight (pun intended) and narrow definition that it enforces. They are really the most unchristian of values. It really breaks my heart because I grew up catholic and though not really what you'd call practicing, I have a personal relationship with god (which btw christians will say isnt enough...). My family is still ingrained in the church and Im terrified because I dont know how I will get them to be okay with me not raising my kid in the church or in a religious school.
Ps happy matariki whereever you are. Hope you have a restful day with friends and/or whanau.
It's the weekend tomorrow and I plan to relax. And step back. The Roe v Wade thing today is a huge downer. It's rough out there, huh.
Sorry your family is still stuck in that - it can make family comms hard. Thinking of you.
Apparently some schools claim to have "special character", an invented identity which has no basis in reality.
I remember the way our science teacher taught us evolution. "It's just a theory!" etc. This - from a science teacher!
Gah!
It has the same vibe as “special military operation”
Jesus had some words for those who like to dilute their toxic views by saying “special military operation “ and “it is not our intent to hurt” and “love the sinner, hate the sin” - he said: “Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness. ”
He called them “a brood of vipers” and “a den of thieves!”
The thing that annoys me, even more than the bigoted attitude to sexuality and gender, is that these institutions are not geared up for learning at all. They base their entire being on a fallacy, an imaginary being that you have to believe in without proof or evidence. If that attitude was applied to other subjects they would be an abject failure as a learning institution.
Thank you David, for giving voice to those who cannot.
My own coming out journey while I was attending a non denominational charismatic church was also fraught with such cookie cutter abuse.
I like it how the college says they are proud of you for all the 'notable' things you have achieved. Subtext: this present stuff you are bringing to light is not ' notable'. It's like an egotistical wrap over the knuckles sent your way. With love of course :)
Side note - Love Daffodils! Even more amazing Ro managed to achieve this despite the experience of BC
Ro rules. So much.
Quote from BC kid aged 13 years old this week “the media are lying, our school allowed those kids to protest”… this is what they were told at school to explain what is happening.
Wait whaaat? So they are being coached / given talking points?
Possibly, I tried not to probe too much (they’re just a kid after all - unlike BC, I recognise that space should be made for this topic - especially for children). I came away unclear if the message was grown through BC peers, parents or staff. Clearly it’s cultivation through BC culture was evident though.