Super intense times eh. I’ve been getting death threats for as long as I’ve been writing (women having opinions online is hard for some) but it’s definitely escalated to a place that makes it harder to ignore. It’s the strangest thing seeing a neighbour who you chat to about plants and share cuttings with head to a protest where there are signs calling for you to be hung. Like, she knows my family, knows my kids...it’s hard to reconcile. It really impacts your mental health. And she might not mean that I would be included in a public hanging (just my colleagues?) but I truly don’t know. The proximity of all of these threats is just building to such an extent and now it feels like it’s being normalised. It has also had a big impact on how I use social media - I am much more wary about anything I write or share because the aggression from anti vaxxers is just so intense and to be honest I’m afraid for my family. We were asked to talk about disability and vaccination for a campaign but said no because we felt it would put our babies at risk. I’ve had someone scream at me in public that I’m “fake news” while I had my child with me. The end result is more people from already marginalised communities (the disability community for example) being “muzzled” as Wannabe Bono put it. And these are already very isolated members of the community - some parents of kids with immunity disabilities have been in lockdown since 2020. Anyway I’m rambling I’ll stop! Just thank you for continuing to speak out. I’ve lost so much work and so much income and I’m basically in lockdown for my whānau and it sucks but still I’m not shitting on the street...so???? Anyway arohanui x
"Normalised" is it. I don't think we can reverse back out of this - just in regards to people's attitude to the media etc. That stuff isn't being reversed. We are here now.
As for your experience online - I can only imagine. You're way stronger than I am. I realise what a free pass I get being a white male online. Instantly puts me eons ahead in regards of how I am treated.
It's fucking chaotic, Emily. Glad you're here. Glad you're smart. Glad the difficult times you've experienced haven't turned you into a maniac who reads 8Kun all day and loves sending bulk messages on Telegram.
I’m so sorry that this is happening to you. You’re so smart & such a great writer. Thank you for vocalizing what this means to those most vulnerable in our society (who are not the privileged cockwombles at parliament calling for executions & govt overthrow). I’m also triggered AF by this, thanks to some deeply traumatic family & personal experiences with actual Nazis (I’m Austrian). That this is happening here, in the safest & sanest little country & capital, is doing my head in. But I’m not media - just the “science elite” but not a medical scientist so haven’t had the death threats you and Siouxsie et al had to deal with. I’ll keep screaming about it online until my mental health can’t deal with it anymore. I will never abide Nazis or death threats against journalists, public servants or health professionals. Kia kaha. You, David, Dylan, Hayden et al are all awesome and we’re lucky to have media like you in this country 💕
That means a lot. Thank you so much ❤️ sending you lots of love. I’m sorry you’re struggling too. Thank you for using your voice to help others. Arohanui
This is just shit to hear. I'm so sorry. And incredibly grateful that you have pushed through and continued with your gift and brought us so much insight and laughter. I truly appreciate you ❤ As for your neighbour.. it's like they see the threats as something that is about a stranger. An idea of an enemy, not a real person. Because once you start down that path of singling out "complicit" people the list gets longer and includes real people they know - but they'd never wish it on somebody they know in real life, just a figurehead. Those doctors! But not MY doctor, they're okay. Those scientists! But not my friend's sister who's a scientist aye. Those principals! But not my neighbour who's a principal, right? Just those unnamed big baddies that I can blame.
Anyway. Your fan base is way larger than any loud annoying stupid haters. We love you 😘
Thank you Alle ❤️ that means so much to me. I feel so lucky to have such a lovely community around me. Substack is a nice escape from the awfulness of other online platforms! And yes I think you’re absolutely right about my neighbour and others...they’re so desperate for someone to blame. I guess we as humans just hate to sit in the discomfort of not knowing things or not having someone to be the bad guy. I think that’s especially the case if you’re near the top of the food chain and you haven’t had to deal with much discomfort at all (I’m thinking the Russell Coutts types). Any inconvenience feels like oppression....
I've missed seeing you on Twitter, Emily, but I totally understood why you left. I would not have stayed either!! I love seeing your writing pop up on other platforms though, and I hope you and the family are OK and stay healthy!
hi Emily - Unexpected but wonderful to read you here as where I normally cross your name :-). I am so sorry that your children and actually everyones children are included in this insanity. I know your children will be well cared for but I worry about the PTSD caused to our nations children by conversations held (shouted screamed?) in front of them. Kia Kaha - I feel there is worse to come
❤️ I worry about that too - I also worry about the impact on disabled and medically fragile children who are hearing the messages from their peers of “my dad says only kids like you will get sick!” etc. not to mention the “vaccines are poison” rhetoric kids here. Mind you - every kid I know has loudly been saying they want to be vaccinated and proudly showed off their “dots”. So maybe they’re more resilient than we think...but yes, I’m with you.
After this time lets hope there is help for the lingering after effects on our vulnerable. In the mean time I try (and its hard) to be kind. To not listen to hurtful comments while still being open to differing points of view. Mind you that is also extremely hard when trying to get to work and just wearing a mask puts you in the camp of the "enemy".
David - your line about Coutts just sings out. And maybe it’s an old thought, but it’s one I’ve never had… “six decades of not caring about anything enough to protest. That is, until his personal freedoms had been encroached upon”.
I’ve heard so many say recently “I’ve never protested before, but…” as if that fact is legitimising. And I’ve given them that credence… but… what utterly selfish, disengaged, passive, injustice-tolerating fucks are these people? In this ratfucked century, to state that the only thing that has made you mad enough to get off your arse is a government trying its sometimes misguided best to keep its populace safe… yeah. You found my anger button and pushed it hard. Thank you!
That's okay. I had to re-read that sentence from him, too. Like - he saw it as this big moment for him. But all I could see was all the stuff he's ignored over his long life. Another privilege dude moaning that his life isn't perfect.
Yes - one of my friends (extremely privileged) has said something similar "I've never felt a calling like this before in my life". Like, really? You couldn't conjure up even a modicum of energy about any other (more worthy) cause than this?
It's toxic individualism. All this shit about loss of freedom really riles. Go live in Afghanistan or Syria or China and try to live without your personal freedom being restricted. Perhaps the Government might set up a screen and play documentaries of life in these places, show them what's happened to Zhang Zhan, how women's lives are deprived under the Taliban, how refugee families are living after escaping civil war in Syria. That the protestors think they live in an unfree society just beggars belief.
Obviously now add Ukraine to that list. Surely the NZ protesters can understand that losing your job because you refuse to be vaccinated is nothing compared to having your home bombed
Yea... JK and NH are two ex friends from Facebook that I have deleted.... Jason in 2020 when his eccentricity changed from mildly amusing to toxic, misogynist Trump supporting rants. NH no longer a 'friend' after reading the info here. The fact that Jason - once proudly Maori - supports alt right racist rhetoric without blinking is sad. But after science and medicine saved Nathan's life after a massive battle with cancer that he survived, causes me to seriously question his intelligence. I was abused as a leftie loony at the home of another musician friend of 20 plus years even prior to covid. His wife is absolutely rabid, so I suspect he is quietly too, tho is smart/sly enough not to publically state his beliefs for fear of it affecting his music income. I do know he is unvaxed, and that he is unable to see his grandchildren for this reason. I find this sad beyond belief. But for some years I have listened astonished to his bitter rants about how you have to be dark skinned, gay and female to get attention musically in this country.... While he is a white male member of the one of the best known and most successful bands in NZ's music history. I once ignored this stuff as slightly bent privileged naivety. But it is a lot more than that. When racist homophobic misogynists are threatened or feel a teensy bit guilty about their status they seem to get real nasty.... For them, one female, one Maori, or one non straight person is too many and they sure do love to extrapolate stats when it suits them as well, to back up their narrative, without any reference to social context. They appear to have literally engaged their egos and sent their brains and hearts on a permanent vacation. And meanwhile, Bannon chaos theory of eugenics begins to take shape. I look at Stir Russell Coutts, a truly unpleasant human being, and wonder who is paying him to fi this protest support stuff because he does nothing unless big bucks are involved. And I also quietly wonder about the Yank MAGA and Trump loving billionaire given citizenship by the previous government, knowing Coutts is a good 'friend'. And that's when my own Conspiracy theories begin to blossom....... 😢
NH is a world apart from JK - but it's still sad. He may just not fully understand the situation. To his credit, he did delete his post. But his stuff about the media essentially being paid by the government to tow the line - it's such damaging thinking. And all the people in his comments agreeing. So while he stated he is vaxxed - that doesn't erase the other bad ideas he put out there. Frustrating.
My nursing wage is government money. Everybody just be careful you just never know what the government has instructed me to put in that enema I'm shoving up your butt!
But seriously this scares me. I'm scared at what I'm going to have to confront as these anti people/nut bars filter through the health system. How am I going to stay professional and not let the care I provide be influenced by my views and theirs. Luckily so far I have only come across one person that refused to tell me their vaccination status.
I'm scared for how many people will die or be harmed because of the rabbit holes they have fallen into. When mandates were first introduced and before I blocked myself from Charlotte Bakers Facebook page there was this idea been pushed that if you weren't vaccinated then you would be refused any healthcare. The people that were been led to believe this were ordinary everyday kiwis. These people were falling for the idea that there was no point going to hospital if sick because they would be denied care. It's these people that are going to die or be harmed because of these crackpot beliefs not the Russel couttss or Charlotte Bakers of the world. It will be people like my unvaccinated mother in law who is a good person just very easily mis led.
I can't understand the us/them mindset that attempts to define "government money". To me it's "our money". Everyone pays something into the common pot through taxes, whether they be a citizen a resident or a visitor, when an earner a saver or a spender. That pot funds the wages of all public servants and services: health, police, transport, the government itself. All vital to keep our society functioning. The PM and MPs are are also paid from that same pot, just as you and every other public servant are Amanda. And you deserve every cent of our money that you earn, and more.
I work for a Government agency, I'm just a low level worker who tries to do the best I can for the public within the constraints of my role. I'm seriously worried for people like myself & my colleagues, are we going to end up on their lists?
I hear you. It's all awful. Largely - for most protestors - it's in their heads. A game.
But then with wildcards like Alp around, I think we have to keep a very close look at things. Especially as they stay embedded in the Capitol.
And as for them wanting to speak to the government? Why would the government agree to meet with a leaderless group who's adherents want leaders physically hung from gallows? It's madness. And deeply frustrating to watch.
Is there a way you can bring this up as a team, with your management? There probably isn't a simple solution but your workplace needs to acknowledge that the threat or fear is real.
David, first time commenter, long time reader. What I have noticed is a massive increase in conspiracy sentiment on sites like Gab. When you drill down though, its a small number of very vocal individuals/bots.
Take "KiwiBlokeDaza" in the New Zealand Politics group there. He has posted 93,000 times since his account was created in March last year. Thats 250 posts per day. But when you look at them, there is replication and repetition of key messages.
For example, he has posted that misattributed Nuremberg photo FIFTY TIMES in the past 12 days. People read it, and spread it.
I think people are reading these forums and detecting a groundswell of support for their crazy ideas, whereas if you removed a small number of people mass posting (probably using scripts unless they have no life), the forums would be pretty empty.
Thanks for commenting - and a valid point. These posters (some will be bots) have a lot of time on their hands, and a lot of anger. That is a giant motivator and that shit SPREADS. Social networks have a huge part in this. A way to spread the worst information quickly - and far.
It would also be in the interests of the governments of countries such as Russia, China, and N. Korea to do whatever they could to destabilise "Western" democracies. I have no doubt that some of the disinformation ultimately comes from these sources, but it's obviously really hard to quantify.
A fiver says that is an entire Russian troll-bot farm not some bloke with his undies round his ankles on the bog conducting "independent vaccine research" and posting his "findings". Honestly I'd rather look at ratemypoo.com (dont look)
It’s a dilemma we haven’t really had to face before: just because people appear unhinged, delusional and just plain stupid doesn’t mean we can dismiss them. We’re having to carve out a whole new niche in our understanding about what threat looks like, and that means lifting the lid on the box labeled ‘visceral terror’. My thanks to you and Dylan for making that process feel less lonely!
If only these people used their power for good... protesting real human rights violations, climate change, the rising cost of living in New Zealand, bringing back the old Milo.... the more I read about these protests, the more anxious I feel. It doesn't help when Stuff releases articles saying 30% of kiwis support them.... argh. Going back to bed.
Considering it's a plan to fight against the mighty forces of the evil elite illuminati global world order and Hilary Barry, I wouldn't want the plan to include bullet points that are just "etcetera"
Waiting for Coutts to ask for a $5m protest-joining subsidy from Wellington City Council, claiming his participation will add $700m to the local economy
Would not put it past him. He's pretty tone deaf - which is what you get when you're sheltered in wealth and privilege (and think the most important thing in life is sailing big boats)
"The last time I checked, New Zealand was one of the most free countries in the world. In other states, protesters who trashed Parliament grounds would be tear-gassed, arrested or even shot. Here, Police offered to arrange free parking. Doesn’t that tell us something about our freedom?"
Agree, such a good article. I especially liked his point that no amount of happy dancing and bubble blowing can hide the underlying problems with some facets of the protest. This isn't some kind of nice hippy lite WOMAD festival.
There have always been people this ghastly (the ones who designed the Inquisition, invented instruments of torture through the ages, tossed refugees into endless purgatory in assorted holding camps...the list goes on and on), but they're very audible now they've got social media at their disposal. That makes them dangerous, because they can so easily infest the minds of others who would never previously entertained such vileness. And unfortunately, I can understand the police holding off on doing anything to deter them, because, as they have recently said, having people being inconsiderate nuisances is a great deal better than provoking violence in the streets, which is exactly what some of them want. Maybe (just maybe) if we continue to treat them as the deluded fringe they are and give them as little attention as possible, they'll get bored and give up? If they do commit unprovoked physical violence on ordinary citizens, as opposed to the police, they will presumably be subject to the usual laws and can be charged accordingly.
"having people being inconsiderate nuisances is a great deal better than provoking violence in the street"
This caught me off guard as an American. I really don't know much about policing around the globe, but here, when there's "violence in the streets," it's usually because the cops instigated. And then the next day, they point to it and say, "See? This is why the police need more funding. Blue lives matter," or whatever filth they can come up with to downplay their crimes against citizens.
Fortunately, although the New Zealand police force is no more perfect than any other bunch of humans, they don't tend to instigate violence (and yes, there are notable exceptions, before anyone decides to list them). By and large they are decent people trying to maintain a peaceful society where harm doesn't happen too often - hence their reaction in this case, I think.
Also NZ Police is a single National organisation, and although it has regional divisions, they are all under the same central administration structure. Of course that is much easier to do in a country that is roughly the size of one "average" US state...
A big red flag for me watching the Wgtn protest is the number of kids who have been brought in to the area. It worries me that very young children are being exposed to some of the more extreme messaging being touted, and surely this is planting the seeds of a whole new generation who not only distrust government and media, but will also become comfortable with the idea of publicly executing some or all of them. I’m also really concerned that there is going to be violence in the ending of this protest (I really REALLY hope I’m wrong!) and that certainly is no place for kids, I’m hoping the adults there have considered this?
"The Alt Right have worn the vulnerable like a bullet proof vest. An astonishing digital hypnotic effect at scale… as a friend said… weaponised Aroha… like a musket…"
Yeah, we have a massive problem. I went to talk to a friend - good person, kind and thoughtful - at one CHCH rally, and found him chatting to someone from the national front. It was shocking. This comes from so many sources it is not going to vanish quickly. Tempting to pile it all on the impersonal savagery of neoliberal real economics - which has seen many left behind, feeling abandoned and hopeless (while other become stupidly wealthy). The atomisation of society thru the internet, making us paradoxically more lonely, and able to find others to share this with. The decline of journalism ; HALF the journalists in NZ we had in 2000. Yikes.
Yeah - and a lot of old school journos are not being replaced. Newsrooms are so YOUNG. The mentorship is not there. Even back when I was doing entertainment journalism - I could sit in with the 60 Minutes team - old legends - and learn from them. John Campbell had his door open. Mihi Forbes. I was so lucky.
Gordon Campbell is still good, I reckon. Don't always agree, but thoughtful, well argued and referenced takes on - well, lots of topics! www.werewolf.co.nz
Those who do not learn from history, are bound to repeat it. I was totally amazed when I realized that a certain journo (and heh! I can't remember who it was!!) didn't know that there had been a catastrophic collapse in the financial sector in '87. Just wow!
It is not only the history of other countries we need to remember. Very few Pākehā know much about the history of Aotearoa. Pākehā society and our system of government is founded on racism and injustice to Māori. White supremacy is not just the Nazis like Kyle Chapman and Kevin Alps, it is the failure to uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the failure to understand that our government has no legitimacy without Te Tiriti. It is being afraid of or even uninterested in implementing Matike Mai, He Puapua as pathways to Māori sovereignty. It is Pākehā continuing to benefit from generational wealth stolen from Māori. It is being able to live comfortably and successfully in Aotearoa with only the most superficial understanding of Te Ao Māori and Te Reo Māori. It is discussions like this about protecting “our” democracy with no acknowledgement that it was imposed by force on the indigenous people of this land. It is the government refusing to allow Māori to manage the vaccination rollout to their own people which may have helped to avoid at least some of this current mess. I truly admire David and agree with what he says but I am struck by the irony of the “whiteness” of this discussion.
Right on, David and Dylan. Having a chuckle at Coutts’ tone deaf declaration. These toxic people have their covert supporters but keep in mind that, dodgy Stuff snap polls notwithstanding, they are not the majority. Doesn’t mean they don’t need calling out, though. Keep up the good work!
Super intense times eh. I’ve been getting death threats for as long as I’ve been writing (women having opinions online is hard for some) but it’s definitely escalated to a place that makes it harder to ignore. It’s the strangest thing seeing a neighbour who you chat to about plants and share cuttings with head to a protest where there are signs calling for you to be hung. Like, she knows my family, knows my kids...it’s hard to reconcile. It really impacts your mental health. And she might not mean that I would be included in a public hanging (just my colleagues?) but I truly don’t know. The proximity of all of these threats is just building to such an extent and now it feels like it’s being normalised. It has also had a big impact on how I use social media - I am much more wary about anything I write or share because the aggression from anti vaxxers is just so intense and to be honest I’m afraid for my family. We were asked to talk about disability and vaccination for a campaign but said no because we felt it would put our babies at risk. I’ve had someone scream at me in public that I’m “fake news” while I had my child with me. The end result is more people from already marginalised communities (the disability community for example) being “muzzled” as Wannabe Bono put it. And these are already very isolated members of the community - some parents of kids with immunity disabilities have been in lockdown since 2020. Anyway I’m rambling I’ll stop! Just thank you for continuing to speak out. I’ve lost so much work and so much income and I’m basically in lockdown for my whānau and it sucks but still I’m not shitting on the street...so???? Anyway arohanui x
"Normalised" is it. I don't think we can reverse back out of this - just in regards to people's attitude to the media etc. That stuff isn't being reversed. We are here now.
As for your experience online - I can only imagine. You're way stronger than I am. I realise what a free pass I get being a white male online. Instantly puts me eons ahead in regards of how I am treated.
It's fucking chaotic, Emily. Glad you're here. Glad you're smart. Glad the difficult times you've experienced haven't turned you into a maniac who reads 8Kun all day and loves sending bulk messages on Telegram.
Glad you’re here too David ❤️ thank you for your kindness. It helps a lot!
I’m so sorry that this is happening to you. You’re so smart & such a great writer. Thank you for vocalizing what this means to those most vulnerable in our society (who are not the privileged cockwombles at parliament calling for executions & govt overthrow). I’m also triggered AF by this, thanks to some deeply traumatic family & personal experiences with actual Nazis (I’m Austrian). That this is happening here, in the safest & sanest little country & capital, is doing my head in. But I’m not media - just the “science elite” but not a medical scientist so haven’t had the death threats you and Siouxsie et al had to deal with. I’ll keep screaming about it online until my mental health can’t deal with it anymore. I will never abide Nazis or death threats against journalists, public servants or health professionals. Kia kaha. You, David, Dylan, Hayden et al are all awesome and we’re lucky to have media like you in this country 💕
That means a lot. Thank you so much ❤️ sending you lots of love. I’m sorry you’re struggling too. Thank you for using your voice to help others. Arohanui
Just wanted to comment that I've read a lot of your stuff and follow you and think you're amazing. 💕
You’re so kind Kimberley thank you!
Arohanui Emily. Kia Kaha x
Thank you so much Kerryn ❤️
This is just shit to hear. I'm so sorry. And incredibly grateful that you have pushed through and continued with your gift and brought us so much insight and laughter. I truly appreciate you ❤ As for your neighbour.. it's like they see the threats as something that is about a stranger. An idea of an enemy, not a real person. Because once you start down that path of singling out "complicit" people the list gets longer and includes real people they know - but they'd never wish it on somebody they know in real life, just a figurehead. Those doctors! But not MY doctor, they're okay. Those scientists! But not my friend's sister who's a scientist aye. Those principals! But not my neighbour who's a principal, right? Just those unnamed big baddies that I can blame.
Anyway. Your fan base is way larger than any loud annoying stupid haters. We love you 😘
Thank you Alle ❤️ that means so much to me. I feel so lucky to have such a lovely community around me. Substack is a nice escape from the awfulness of other online platforms! And yes I think you’re absolutely right about my neighbour and others...they’re so desperate for someone to blame. I guess we as humans just hate to sit in the discomfort of not knowing things or not having someone to be the bad guy. I think that’s especially the case if you’re near the top of the food chain and you haven’t had to deal with much discomfort at all (I’m thinking the Russell Coutts types). Any inconvenience feels like oppression....
I've missed seeing you on Twitter, Emily, but I totally understood why you left. I would not have stayed either!! I love seeing your writing pop up on other platforms though, and I hope you and the family are OK and stay healthy!
Oh thank you! That means a lot ❤️
hi Emily - Unexpected but wonderful to read you here as where I normally cross your name :-). I am so sorry that your children and actually everyones children are included in this insanity. I know your children will be well cared for but I worry about the PTSD caused to our nations children by conversations held (shouted screamed?) in front of them. Kia Kaha - I feel there is worse to come
❤️ I worry about that too - I also worry about the impact on disabled and medically fragile children who are hearing the messages from their peers of “my dad says only kids like you will get sick!” etc. not to mention the “vaccines are poison” rhetoric kids here. Mind you - every kid I know has loudly been saying they want to be vaccinated and proudly showed off their “dots”. So maybe they’re more resilient than we think...but yes, I’m with you.
After this time lets hope there is help for the lingering after effects on our vulnerable. In the mean time I try (and its hard) to be kind. To not listen to hurtful comments while still being open to differing points of view. Mind you that is also extremely hard when trying to get to work and just wearing a mask puts you in the camp of the "enemy".
David - your line about Coutts just sings out. And maybe it’s an old thought, but it’s one I’ve never had… “six decades of not caring about anything enough to protest. That is, until his personal freedoms had been encroached upon”.
I’ve heard so many say recently “I’ve never protested before, but…” as if that fact is legitimising. And I’ve given them that credence… but… what utterly selfish, disengaged, passive, injustice-tolerating fucks are these people? In this ratfucked century, to state that the only thing that has made you mad enough to get off your arse is a government trying its sometimes misguided best to keep its populace safe… yeah. You found my anger button and pushed it hard. Thank you!
That's okay. I had to re-read that sentence from him, too. Like - he saw it as this big moment for him. But all I could see was all the stuff he's ignored over his long life. Another privilege dude moaning that his life isn't perfect.
Yes - one of my friends (extremely privileged) has said something similar "I've never felt a calling like this before in my life". Like, really? You couldn't conjure up even a modicum of energy about any other (more worthy) cause than this?
It's toxic individualism. All this shit about loss of freedom really riles. Go live in Afghanistan or Syria or China and try to live without your personal freedom being restricted. Perhaps the Government might set up a screen and play documentaries of life in these places, show them what's happened to Zhang Zhan, how women's lives are deprived under the Taliban, how refugee families are living after escaping civil war in Syria. That the protestors think they live in an unfree society just beggars belief.
Obviously now add Ukraine to that list. Surely the NZ protesters can understand that losing your job because you refuse to be vaccinated is nothing compared to having your home bombed
Yea... JK and NH are two ex friends from Facebook that I have deleted.... Jason in 2020 when his eccentricity changed from mildly amusing to toxic, misogynist Trump supporting rants. NH no longer a 'friend' after reading the info here. The fact that Jason - once proudly Maori - supports alt right racist rhetoric without blinking is sad. But after science and medicine saved Nathan's life after a massive battle with cancer that he survived, causes me to seriously question his intelligence. I was abused as a leftie loony at the home of another musician friend of 20 plus years even prior to covid. His wife is absolutely rabid, so I suspect he is quietly too, tho is smart/sly enough not to publically state his beliefs for fear of it affecting his music income. I do know he is unvaxed, and that he is unable to see his grandchildren for this reason. I find this sad beyond belief. But for some years I have listened astonished to his bitter rants about how you have to be dark skinned, gay and female to get attention musically in this country.... While he is a white male member of the one of the best known and most successful bands in NZ's music history. I once ignored this stuff as slightly bent privileged naivety. But it is a lot more than that. When racist homophobic misogynists are threatened or feel a teensy bit guilty about their status they seem to get real nasty.... For them, one female, one Maori, or one non straight person is too many and they sure do love to extrapolate stats when it suits them as well, to back up their narrative, without any reference to social context. They appear to have literally engaged their egos and sent their brains and hearts on a permanent vacation. And meanwhile, Bannon chaos theory of eugenics begins to take shape. I look at Stir Russell Coutts, a truly unpleasant human being, and wonder who is paying him to fi this protest support stuff because he does nothing unless big bucks are involved. And I also quietly wonder about the Yank MAGA and Trump loving billionaire given citizenship by the previous government, knowing Coutts is a good 'friend'. And that's when my own Conspiracy theories begin to blossom....... 😢
NH is a world apart from JK - but it's still sad. He may just not fully understand the situation. To his credit, he did delete his post. But his stuff about the media essentially being paid by the government to tow the line - it's such damaging thinking. And all the people in his comments agreeing. So while he stated he is vaxxed - that doesn't erase the other bad ideas he put out there. Frustrating.
*nod* sooo sad, and frustrating - the more people I see head down this hole, the more I want to put my head in a dark quiet one!
My nursing wage is government money. Everybody just be careful you just never know what the government has instructed me to put in that enema I'm shoving up your butt!
But seriously this scares me. I'm scared at what I'm going to have to confront as these anti people/nut bars filter through the health system. How am I going to stay professional and not let the care I provide be influenced by my views and theirs. Luckily so far I have only come across one person that refused to tell me their vaccination status.
I'm scared for how many people will die or be harmed because of the rabbit holes they have fallen into. When mandates were first introduced and before I blocked myself from Charlotte Bakers Facebook page there was this idea been pushed that if you weren't vaccinated then you would be refused any healthcare. The people that were been led to believe this were ordinary everyday kiwis. These people were falling for the idea that there was no point going to hospital if sick because they would be denied care. It's these people that are going to die or be harmed because of these crackpot beliefs not the Russel couttss or Charlotte Bakers of the world. It will be people like my unvaccinated mother in law who is a good person just very easily mis led.
It's scary and makes me very angry
You are doing such important work, and I hate how your work - and health outcomes for patients - will be affected by this stuff.
We're all in this together, and plenty of smart ways to push back - but it just makes our jobs so much *harder*
Now - where's that enema?!
I can't understand the us/them mindset that attempts to define "government money". To me it's "our money". Everyone pays something into the common pot through taxes, whether they be a citizen a resident or a visitor, when an earner a saver or a spender. That pot funds the wages of all public servants and services: health, police, transport, the government itself. All vital to keep our society functioning. The PM and MPs are are also paid from that same pot, just as you and every other public servant are Amanda. And you deserve every cent of our money that you earn, and more.
I have to admit I’ve never been more worried about threats like this before. Especially as the protests grow unchecked and unhindered.
I work for a Government agency, I'm just a low level worker who tries to do the best I can for the public within the constraints of my role. I'm seriously worried for people like myself & my colleagues, are we going to end up on their lists?
I hear you. It's all awful. Largely - for most protestors - it's in their heads. A game.
But then with wildcards like Alp around, I think we have to keep a very close look at things. Especially as they stay embedded in the Capitol.
And as for them wanting to speak to the government? Why would the government agree to meet with a leaderless group who's adherents want leaders physically hung from gallows? It's madness. And deeply frustrating to watch.
Oh I'm worried too.
Is there a way you can bring this up as a team, with your management? There probably isn't a simple solution but your workplace needs to acknowledge that the threat or fear is real.
I actually have this saved on my phone
Yes, it's hard to see a peaceful endpoint when the demands are either unclear, unrealistic, or unrelated to actual reality.
David, first time commenter, long time reader. What I have noticed is a massive increase in conspiracy sentiment on sites like Gab. When you drill down though, its a small number of very vocal individuals/bots.
Take "KiwiBlokeDaza" in the New Zealand Politics group there. He has posted 93,000 times since his account was created in March last year. Thats 250 posts per day. But when you look at them, there is replication and repetition of key messages.
For example, he has posted that misattributed Nuremberg photo FIFTY TIMES in the past 12 days. People read it, and spread it.
I think people are reading these forums and detecting a groundswell of support for their crazy ideas, whereas if you removed a small number of people mass posting (probably using scripts unless they have no life), the forums would be pretty empty.
Thanks for commenting - and a valid point. These posters (some will be bots) have a lot of time on their hands, and a lot of anger. That is a giant motivator and that shit SPREADS. Social networks have a huge part in this. A way to spread the worst information quickly - and far.
Do you think "kiwiblokedazza" is a bot perchance?
Certainly a possibility. We also have some unemployed and very bored people around who are very angry.
To clarify also - I am referencing recently unemployed (as in, chose not to get vaccinated) - as now very bored and very online.
It would also be in the interests of the governments of countries such as Russia, China, and N. Korea to do whatever they could to destabilise "Western" democracies. I have no doubt that some of the disinformation ultimately comes from these sources, but it's obviously really hard to quantify.
BBC podcast from last year "The disinformation dragon": https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p099b1xd
Shit, I wish I had that much energy.
A fiver says that is an entire Russian troll-bot farm not some bloke with his undies round his ankles on the bog conducting "independent vaccine research" and posting his "findings". Honestly I'd rather look at ratemypoo.com (dont look)
It’s a dilemma we haven’t really had to face before: just because people appear unhinged, delusional and just plain stupid doesn’t mean we can dismiss them. We’re having to carve out a whole new niche in our understanding about what threat looks like, and that means lifting the lid on the box labeled ‘visceral terror’. My thanks to you and Dylan for making that process feel less lonely!
If only is was possible to dismiss. We're stuck right here with them... and as you say, have to figure out how to live with that.
If only these people used their power for good... protesting real human rights violations, climate change, the rising cost of living in New Zealand, bringing back the old Milo.... the more I read about these protests, the more anxious I feel. It doesn't help when Stuff releases articles saying 30% of kiwis support them.... argh. Going back to bed.
Yeah - so much of what they are protesting is JUST IN THEIR HEADS. A truly chaotic waste of time.
Considering it's a plan to fight against the mighty forces of the evil elite illuminati global world order and Hilary Barry, I wouldn't want the plan to include bullet points that are just "etcetera"
"Etcetera" is a very funny thing to get its own bullet point. Unintentional comedy gold.
And Hilary being a target! Hilary!
Waiting for Coutts to ask for a $5m protest-joining subsidy from Wellington City Council, claiming his participation will add $700m to the local economy
Would not put it past him. He's pretty tone deaf - which is what you get when you're sheltered in wealth and privilege (and think the most important thing in life is sailing big boats)
Thanks for the chuckle!
Great article on Stuff this morning about this exact topic. https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127815331/do-the-protesters-in-wellington-even-know-what-freedom-means
Thank you for sharing! I like this bit:
"The last time I checked, New Zealand was one of the most free countries in the world. In other states, protesters who trashed Parliament grounds would be tear-gassed, arrested or even shot. Here, Police offered to arrange free parking. Doesn’t that tell us something about our freedom?"
Agree, such a good article. I especially liked his point that no amount of happy dancing and bubble blowing can hide the underlying problems with some facets of the protest. This isn't some kind of nice hippy lite WOMAD festival.
My soul hurts. Thank you for covering stories like this. Must be excruciating at times.
It just gets... tiring.
There have always been people this ghastly (the ones who designed the Inquisition, invented instruments of torture through the ages, tossed refugees into endless purgatory in assorted holding camps...the list goes on and on), but they're very audible now they've got social media at their disposal. That makes them dangerous, because they can so easily infest the minds of others who would never previously entertained such vileness. And unfortunately, I can understand the police holding off on doing anything to deter them, because, as they have recently said, having people being inconsiderate nuisances is a great deal better than provoking violence in the streets, which is exactly what some of them want. Maybe (just maybe) if we continue to treat them as the deluded fringe they are and give them as little attention as possible, they'll get bored and give up? If they do commit unprovoked physical violence on ordinary citizens, as opposed to the police, they will presumably be subject to the usual laws and can be charged accordingly.
"having people being inconsiderate nuisances is a great deal better than provoking violence in the street"
This caught me off guard as an American. I really don't know much about policing around the globe, but here, when there's "violence in the streets," it's usually because the cops instigated. And then the next day, they point to it and say, "See? This is why the police need more funding. Blue lives matter," or whatever filth they can come up with to downplay their crimes against citizens.
Fortunately, although the New Zealand police force is no more perfect than any other bunch of humans, they don't tend to instigate violence (and yes, there are notable exceptions, before anyone decides to list them). By and large they are decent people trying to maintain a peaceful society where harm doesn't happen too often - hence their reaction in this case, I think.
That's like a Utopic fantasy for an American.
Also NZ Police is a single National organisation, and although it has regional divisions, they are all under the same central administration structure. Of course that is much easier to do in a country that is roughly the size of one "average" US state...
A big red flag for me watching the Wgtn protest is the number of kids who have been brought in to the area. It worries me that very young children are being exposed to some of the more extreme messaging being touted, and surely this is planting the seeds of a whole new generation who not only distrust government and media, but will also become comfortable with the idea of publicly executing some or all of them. I’m also really concerned that there is going to be violence in the ending of this protest (I really REALLY hope I’m wrong!) and that certainly is no place for kids, I’m hoping the adults there have considered this?
I hear you. They are like shields to the cause.
I read this on Twitter and really liked it: https://twitter.com/GracefulTeAroha/status/1495206811040845826
"The Alt Right have worn the vulnerable like a bullet proof vest. An astonishing digital hypnotic effect at scale… as a friend said… weaponised Aroha… like a musket…"
Really beautifully put, I thought.
Weaponised Aroha, yes that’s exactly it….and it makes me extremely sad
I see it almost daily as they wait to cross the street a block away from the parliamentary precinct, and it worries the absolute shit out of me.
My thoughts exactly. So hope to be proved wrong.
Yeah, we have a massive problem. I went to talk to a friend - good person, kind and thoughtful - at one CHCH rally, and found him chatting to someone from the national front. It was shocking. This comes from so many sources it is not going to vanish quickly. Tempting to pile it all on the impersonal savagery of neoliberal real economics - which has seen many left behind, feeling abandoned and hopeless (while other become stupidly wealthy). The atomisation of society thru the internet, making us paradoxically more lonely, and able to find others to share this with. The decline of journalism ; HALF the journalists in NZ we had in 2000. Yikes.
Yeah - and a lot of old school journos are not being replaced. Newsrooms are so YOUNG. The mentorship is not there. Even back when I was doing entertainment journalism - I could sit in with the 60 Minutes team - old legends - and learn from them. John Campbell had his door open. Mihi Forbes. I was so lucky.
Gordon Campbell is still good, I reckon. Don't always agree, but thoughtful, well argued and referenced takes on - well, lots of topics! www.werewolf.co.nz
Those who do not learn from history, are bound to repeat it. I was totally amazed when I realized that a certain journo (and heh! I can't remember who it was!!) didn't know that there had been a catastrophic collapse in the financial sector in '87. Just wow!
It is not only the history of other countries we need to remember. Very few Pākehā know much about the history of Aotearoa. Pākehā society and our system of government is founded on racism and injustice to Māori. White supremacy is not just the Nazis like Kyle Chapman and Kevin Alps, it is the failure to uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the failure to understand that our government has no legitimacy without Te Tiriti. It is being afraid of or even uninterested in implementing Matike Mai, He Puapua as pathways to Māori sovereignty. It is Pākehā continuing to benefit from generational wealth stolen from Māori. It is being able to live comfortably and successfully in Aotearoa with only the most superficial understanding of Te Ao Māori and Te Reo Māori. It is discussions like this about protecting “our” democracy with no acknowledgement that it was imposed by force on the indigenous people of this land. It is the government refusing to allow Māori to manage the vaccination rollout to their own people which may have helped to avoid at least some of this current mess. I truly admire David and agree with what he says but I am struck by the irony of the “whiteness” of this discussion.
Tautoko
Right on, David and Dylan. Having a chuckle at Coutts’ tone deaf declaration. These toxic people have their covert supporters but keep in mind that, dodgy Stuff snap polls notwithstanding, they are not the majority. Doesn’t mean they don’t need calling out, though. Keep up the good work!