Happy to let Life know I became a financial backer of Webworm because of your truth-telling, advocacy and investigation in the area of dysfunction in churches. I would like to think as an Anglican priest I’m not a religious bigot but I guess they might not agree?! Thanks for your continued work, don’t imagine it’s easy to carry the load of peoples’ pain so I hope you’ve got good support around you.
I also came here to comment that I’m a Christian and financial backer of Webworm. I think you’ll find there’s a lot of us !
Thanks again for your work David and Hayden, I’ve had concerns about some of the things you’ve addressed since I was a teenager with friends doing these internships (15 years ago). It’s easy to feel helpless so grateful you’re shedding light.
I am intolerant of religious organisations that abuse people. My abhorrence of these megachurches is based on my experiences and the experiences of others and pretty much comparing the way they operate to the gospel teachings ascribed to Jesus. This seems fair so I don't think I'm a bigot. By their fruits you shall know them.
Sure, I'll put my hand up, I'm not a religious bigot. Just because I became atheist after some serious searching through different belief systems doesn't mean I care what people want to believe or where they worship, that's purely personal :)
On a serious note, I thought it was pretty amazing to see a large, rich, predominantly white Evangelical church take on the label of "religious minority". Churches have always seen themselves as part of an oppressed sub-culture but with faith on the decline I guess we'll be seeing more of them adopting the language of actual minorities, even if they're part of the most privileged groups in every significant respect
This is exactly why I became a paying subscriber too. I wish this sort of journalism had been around in the days when I was emerging from an abusive church situation. It wasn't a megachurch on terms of numbers, but it sure was in terms of culture!
I find it strangely reassuring that these religious leaders are worrying about me and my motives, as one of the "financial backers" of Webworm.
Also, the platitudes about complainants "not engaging with our process" smacks of a third world dictator after a catastrophe, saying "Yes, we'll take your offered aid but only if we get to distribute it."
The logic here seems to be: if Webworm was partly funded by, say, a NZ skeptics association, that would somehow absolve these churches of treating people badly. Or would negate survivors’ stories. What I’m hearing is an organisation looking for excuses to not listen and take concerns seriously 😥
The logic is kinda fascinating. All their question lines are. I am going to answer them - and publish that here, too. It has a lot in common with how Bethlehem College responded to me.
I felt sick reading Justine’s story about working for the deJong’s... such an abuse of power to shame someone for the actions of their own children. And to then gossip about it and say she wasn’t holy enough to be around Maree deJong! What a nasty bitch.
I don’t think I can finish this article in one go. My heart breaks for all of those who are still trapped in these situations (including those who are still navigating the labyrinth of post church life). It really does get better, it takes a lot of time but it gets easier.
I had to laugh when life’s email started questions Hayden’s ethics and Webworm’s “religious intolerant” backers rather than accepting criticism. It’s just genuinely embarrassing.
Special shout-out to Elizabeth. You are one of the biggest badasses I know and the work you do is incredible.
So much to process here and it's all just fucking brutal. My thanks and love to these brave souls who have come forward to share their stories and I hope that those still stuck do eventually get out and find peace.
And thanks to you David (and Hayden) for contuing to fight to expose these organisations and giving the victims a voice. It's not easy work and must feel soul destroying some times, but it is important work and I'm grateful to you for doing it.
I feel like Life should be addressing a whole shopping list of issues before they concern themselves with the motives of Webworm's 'financial backers'. However, since they are apparently so worried about it, I am happy to go on the record for Life to let them know that I am not intolerant of religion, just intolerant of abusive cunts like them.
All the stories were sickening, but I think the one that disgusted me most was Elizabeth's. She expresses herelf so well: you can just feel her excitement at going to the ball with her friends, all dressed in their gorgous saris. Her dear mother was also excited - she was probably proud of her daughter's ability to move with such grace and deftness between two cultures. It must have been worse than a slap in the fact to see some fool dressed up in a parody of her culture. How could anyone be so crass? I hate to think how that event must have impacted on her self esteem, self-confidence and sense of trust.
Another case of Pentecostal BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again). So many sad stories of abuse and trauma. So much subtle and not so subtle White Supremism. The story of the sex worker who was raped pains me. She needed professional help to deal with her trauma not condemnation and shaming. Alas, that is what she received.
David you need to set up a questionnaire for people to fill out before signing up for a subscription where they can affirm that they are/are not intolerant or a religious bigot. We can't get the numbers back to Life if we don't ask the right questions
Please add a category for recovering christians, post pentecostal survivors and people completely turned off religion by these sales people and false prophets.
Just want to add my name to the list of Christian financial backers that are happy for Life to have my name.
It's thanks to you, David and Hayden, that at long last I get to see light brought to the years of buried and ignored misdeeds committed by these so called 'mega-churches' and have them face the public scrutiny they richly deserve.
The examples you shared in this piece, I know, are only the tip of a very ugly iceberg. I have personally experienced some, have witnessed others and have picked up pieces of more. It's not just parishioners that are effected by these 'churches', there are para-church organisations who have had to deal with their greed, lust for power and the broken people they throw away.
The email from Life is a perfect example of the gaslighting, holy than thou, wordy, verbal diarrhea, that anyone who goes to leadership with an issue will face - albeit without the scripture references and spiritual abuse, usually thrown in.
It broke my heart that Maree de Jong, who is so open about her own background that involves eating disorder and mental health issues (and SO much more) could easily throw away a person who has been so close to her and then gossip openly. She is held up, in Christian circles, as this amazing "mother in the faith" and applauded for her caring heart. But the reality is, if you do not fit a narrow definition and prescribed physical appearance of acceptability, your 'worth' in that culture is low to none - and that is your own fault and lack of 'faith/belief'.
David I know how much this awful world of toxic Christianity takes out of you, thank you for forging forward with this incredibly important work. I hope that today brings you some very cute cats to pat and a particularly delicious double cheeseburger - you deserve all the goodness in the universe to be headed in your direction.
As a therapist working with people who’ve experienced sexual trauma, that story about the sex worker fills me with boiling rage. Unbelievable - and yet sadly, entirely believable at the same time.
I’m so glad your story has ended well, but I wish for your sake that someone had reacted appropriately the first time. I’m sure you will be an incredible doctor!
Sending all the positive vibes I can conjure from the universe your way. Keep enjoying that happy life and very best of luck in med school. Any future patient of yours will be very fortunate to have you as their doctor.
So, regarding the financial backing of Webworm...do they realize that we are just a bunch of random people who gave you under $100 to support you with frivolous legal bills? I mean...I'm under the impression that you don't have any major donors, right David? You just have fans who want to support you and the work you are doing. As far as hate groups and religious intolerance, perhaps if they did a deep dive, they might find that many of us are recovering Christians just trying to make sense of our world after suffering from spiritual manipulation and abuse!
I am actually gonna reply to them and their strange list of somewhat paranoid questions - as I think the logic going on in their heads says a lot. I will publish it here, as well.
Happy to let Life know I became a financial backer of Webworm because of your truth-telling, advocacy and investigation in the area of dysfunction in churches. I would like to think as an Anglican priest I’m not a religious bigot but I guess they might not agree?! Thanks for your continued work, don’t imagine it’s easy to carry the load of peoples’ pain so I hope you’ve got good support around you.
I also came here to comment that I’m a Christian and financial backer of Webworm. I think you’ll find there’s a lot of us !
Thanks again for your work David and Hayden, I’ve had concerns about some of the things you’ve addressed since I was a teenager with friends doing these internships (15 years ago). It’s easy to feel helpless so grateful you’re shedding light.
That's two of you who aren't religious bigots. Anyone else here willing to come forward as not being a religious bigot?
I am intolerant of religious organisations that abuse people. My abhorrence of these megachurches is based on my experiences and the experiences of others and pretty much comparing the way they operate to the gospel teachings ascribed to Jesus. This seems fair so I don't think I'm a bigot. By their fruits you shall know them.
Sure, I'll put my hand up, I'm not a religious bigot. Just because I became atheist after some serious searching through different belief systems doesn't mean I care what people want to believe or where they worship, that's purely personal :)
(I am putting my hand up as a religious bigot)
fair enough😂
😂
On a serious note, I thought it was pretty amazing to see a large, rich, predominantly white Evangelical church take on the label of "religious minority". Churches have always seen themselves as part of an oppressed sub-culture but with faith on the decline I guess we'll be seeing more of them adopting the language of actual minorities, even if they're part of the most privileged groups in every significant respect
Me (hopefully). Hugely grateful for Webworms work here 💛
🙋🏻♀️
Yep - Also happy to let Life know that I am a Christian and financial backer of Webworm. I too am hugely appreciative of your work David and Hayden
Thanks, Sarah. Your comment made me smile which was needed today!
This is exactly why I became a paying subscriber too. I wish this sort of journalism had been around in the days when I was emerging from an abusive church situation. It wasn't a megachurch on terms of numbers, but it sure was in terms of culture!
As a proud "financial backer" my intolerance is simply of rich, opportunistic, arseholes exploiting vulnerable people
David you are absolutely rad, I do not know how you do this, but am so glad you do
ty, Beck.
Ditto
I find it strangely reassuring that these religious leaders are worrying about me and my motives, as one of the "financial backers" of Webworm.
Also, the platitudes about complainants "not engaging with our process" smacks of a third world dictator after a catastrophe, saying "Yes, we'll take your offered aid but only if we get to distribute it."
Talk about power dynamics.
The logic here seems to be: if Webworm was partly funded by, say, a NZ skeptics association, that would somehow absolve these churches of treating people badly. Or would negate survivors’ stories. What I’m hearing is an organisation looking for excuses to not listen and take concerns seriously 😥
The logic is kinda fascinating. All their question lines are. I am going to answer them - and publish that here, too. It has a lot in common with how Bethlehem College responded to me.
Overwhelmed by the responses here. The empathy on hand is really great. And for those sharing their own experiences - thank you.
Please know that I read everything and take it all in.
Thanks for being here through all this stuff.
I prefer to think of myself as "arsehole intolerant"
I felt sick reading Justine’s story about working for the deJong’s... such an abuse of power to shame someone for the actions of their own children. And to then gossip about it and say she wasn’t holy enough to be around Maree deJong! What a nasty bitch.
I don’t think I can finish this article in one go. My heart breaks for all of those who are still trapped in these situations (including those who are still navigating the labyrinth of post church life). It really does get better, it takes a lot of time but it gets easier.
I had to laugh when life’s email started questions Hayden’s ethics and Webworm’s “religious intolerant” backers rather than accepting criticism. It’s just genuinely embarrassing.
Special shout-out to Elizabeth. You are one of the biggest badasses I know and the work you do is incredible.
So much to process here and it's all just fucking brutal. My thanks and love to these brave souls who have come forward to share their stories and I hope that those still stuck do eventually get out and find peace.
And thanks to you David (and Hayden) for contuing to fight to expose these organisations and giving the victims a voice. It's not easy work and must feel soul destroying some times, but it is important work and I'm grateful to you for doing it.
I feel like Life should be addressing a whole shopping list of issues before they concern themselves with the motives of Webworm's 'financial backers'. However, since they are apparently so worried about it, I am happy to go on the record for Life to let them know that I am not intolerant of religion, just intolerant of abusive cunts like them.
All the stories were sickening, but I think the one that disgusted me most was Elizabeth's. She expresses herelf so well: you can just feel her excitement at going to the ball with her friends, all dressed in their gorgous saris. Her dear mother was also excited - she was probably proud of her daughter's ability to move with such grace and deftness between two cultures. It must have been worse than a slap in the fact to see some fool dressed up in a parody of her culture. How could anyone be so crass? I hate to think how that event must have impacted on her self esteem, self-confidence and sense of trust.
Another case of Pentecostal BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again). So many sad stories of abuse and trauma. So much subtle and not so subtle White Supremism. The story of the sex worker who was raped pains me. She needed professional help to deal with her trauma not condemnation and shaming. Alas, that is what she received.
David you need to set up a questionnaire for people to fill out before signing up for a subscription where they can affirm that they are/are not intolerant or a religious bigot. We can't get the numbers back to Life if we don't ask the right questions
Please add a category for recovering christians, post pentecostal survivors and people completely turned off religion by these sales people and false prophets.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, or at the least setting up a poll
Just want to add my name to the list of Christian financial backers that are happy for Life to have my name.
It's thanks to you, David and Hayden, that at long last I get to see light brought to the years of buried and ignored misdeeds committed by these so called 'mega-churches' and have them face the public scrutiny they richly deserve.
The examples you shared in this piece, I know, are only the tip of a very ugly iceberg. I have personally experienced some, have witnessed others and have picked up pieces of more. It's not just parishioners that are effected by these 'churches', there are para-church organisations who have had to deal with their greed, lust for power and the broken people they throw away.
The email from Life is a perfect example of the gaslighting, holy than thou, wordy, verbal diarrhea, that anyone who goes to leadership with an issue will face - albeit without the scripture references and spiritual abuse, usually thrown in.
It broke my heart that Maree de Jong, who is so open about her own background that involves eating disorder and mental health issues (and SO much more) could easily throw away a person who has been so close to her and then gossip openly. She is held up, in Christian circles, as this amazing "mother in the faith" and applauded for her caring heart. But the reality is, if you do not fit a narrow definition and prescribed physical appearance of acceptability, your 'worth' in that culture is low to none - and that is your own fault and lack of 'faith/belief'.
David I know how much this awful world of toxic Christianity takes out of you, thank you for forging forward with this incredibly important work. I hope that today brings you some very cute cats to pat and a particularly delicious double cheeseburger - you deserve all the goodness in the universe to be headed in your direction.
As a therapist working with people who’ve experienced sexual trauma, that story about the sex worker fills me with boiling rage. Unbelievable - and yet sadly, entirely believable at the same time.
Thank goodness for your work. It can't be easy, Bex.
Same, I shuddered at the damage inflicted on someone so vulnerable and in need of support, love and acceptance.
I’m so glad your story has ended well, but I wish for your sake that someone had reacted appropriately the first time. I’m sure you will be an incredible doctor!
Great to hear you are on the road yo recovery and forging your own path.
Sending all the positive vibes I can conjure from the universe your way. Keep enjoying that happy life and very best of luck in med school. Any future patient of yours will be very fortunate to have you as their doctor.
Thank you for sharing these stories.
They are heartbreaking and relatable. I appreciate reading them and feeling less alone in unpacking all the church shit I’ve gone through.
Thank you for providing a safe space for people to share their stories and thank you for holding these leaders accountable.
Every day I’m proud to be a goddamn worm with you all.
The comments section makes me feel better about humanity in general. Especially after hitting "send" on a piece like this.
So, regarding the financial backing of Webworm...do they realize that we are just a bunch of random people who gave you under $100 to support you with frivolous legal bills? I mean...I'm under the impression that you don't have any major donors, right David? You just have fans who want to support you and the work you are doing. As far as hate groups and religious intolerance, perhaps if they did a deep dive, they might find that many of us are recovering Christians just trying to make sense of our world after suffering from spiritual manipulation and abuse!
Also, if you do have corporate donors...good for you! There is nothing bad about that!
Haha thank you, but none that I am aware of!
I am actually gonna reply to them and their strange list of somewhat paranoid questions - as I think the logic going on in their heads says a lot. I will publish it here, as well.