Thank you for writing this! It's crazy that people with such huge followings and Influence don't seem to have any responsibility for what they post. It scares me to think what the the future might look like, but it's nice to know some people care.
Influencers by their nature have no idea how to cope with this stuff. They are in the limelight for doing very little -- and suddenly they are opinions shapers. They are not equipped.
Who knew 'activated almonds' would turn into australias biggest qanon guy...
"I'm just asking questions!" Irritates me as a defence. As if a question mark changes what they're saying. (Esp since q posts are mostly dumb 'questions') also annoys me that there's qanon people that believe there's no violent talk within it. For 'researchers for truth' they don't research much...
Just asking questions is such a big giveaway for the moronic stuff that comes next, huh. Also - research these days is basically watching a lot of YouTube videos...
It's so sneaky. They know ts awful stuff by 'asking a question' or out of the blue on a mainstream thread etc saying a celebrity should be arrested/worse and for people to Google it. They need the little wiggle room to excuse themselves.
Saying that Pete Evans "offers some interesting insights into nutrition" is a fabulous euphemism, considering this is the man who suggested bone broth as an immensely dangerous alternative to baby formula. I would have thought that would be enough to discredit him forever, but then Andrew Wakefield still has a following so...
The actualy, proven origins of COVID-19 is enough of a terrifying sci fi adventure without blaming Bill Gates, 5G and the medical establishment (it's probably Big Pharma. It's always Big Pharma)
Please keep doing what you are doing. This article and the comments give me a tiny bit of hope that humanity may survive after all. If the rest of the internet is a true reflection of what people believe we are totally f*@ked.
I didn’t want to watch the Pete Evans 60 mins thing, but I did. I thought nah it’s going to be another train wreck, and it was. I then loathed myself a bit afterwards. Like it was mean to watch him. He was soooo intense with the staring smile, very cringey. When he broke down about his Mum and wanting to hug her, that was next level, that the Govt social distancing recommendations were to blame and no one should be in that position, but Pete we’re in a pandemic, I just thought this dudes a bit broken. He sure is a puzzle, but so self-righteous. Is he just another narcissist that feeds on the attention? I wonder why 60mins gave him air time but then I value seeing diverse opinions. As for Art & Matilda, I think they wanted to brush up against Pete just enough but not too much, to liven up their brand a bit then back off quickly. I find it hard to believe they entered into that naively, to selflessly spread/preach wellness as their intention and life-calling. I think they took a calculated risk, and negative attention is still attention, and the dust will settle, and they get their names in print and in peoples conversations. I’m glad you have the platform David to publicly comment on the nutso narrative out there!
Tania... I think we are in the same boat. I watched his 60 Minutes piece with my parents. They have no skin in this game, but they just looked and went "Hooooo boy". It's. So. Obviously. Cooked. Have a great day!
It's quite scary to see that all over the world "celebrities" are pushing conspiracy theories. In neighboring Germany there are two celebtrities going full QAnon. One is a singer who has been flirting with right-wing extremist views for several years now. The other is a vegan chef - or rather a guy who wrote several vegan cookbooks to market his merchandise and is not even vegan. A couple of weeks into lockdown he started spreading QAnon theories - Covid, child abuse in bunkers, Soros... He got suspended from Facebook, Twitter and Insta, so he started several telegram channels and has now 80k followers. He calls democrats fascists and fascists democrats, he claims Germany is still oppressed by the US and the German deep state is preparing to vaccinate and chip its citizens aaaaaaand only Trump, Putin and Xi Jiping might save Germany. He calls on his fellow "democrats" to arm themselves and get ready for civil war - or the apocalypse.
WHY IS IT ALWAYS CHEFS?!! Sorry to hear you are getting this twaddle in Germany, as well. It's b o n k e r s. Keep keeping it real. Sanity may one day return. I hope.
I can't believe how small a world this is, that it's this guy (Attila Hildmann) that drives passed my apartment window in Berlin, in his Porsche, with a few hundred(?) other cars behind him in the demonstration. Now I'm reading about these ideas in NZ, and I really hope NZ avoids this madness. Thanks for calling out the BS David, <3 to you from a kiwi in Berlin. Keep it real! Keep NZ smart <3
Is that Attila Hildmann you're referring to? He's quite interesting because when he first started out in the Berlin food scene (keeping in mind that the vegan market is huge in that city compared to other globally) he gained a lot of support from local and nationally prominent influencers. A lot of the ones that I follow who previously raved about him or visited his establishments haven't featured him online for hears. I think the major difference is that German media - big nationwide daily publications - don't hesitate to post very direct articles about how damaging his views are and what he represents. That same directness doesn't exist in a comparatively tiny NZ market - smaller audience, smaller industry, and you may rely on those same people for positive clickbait later on. In a massive media landscape they're able to afford that sort of directness and the risk that it may entail.
Hi Amy. Yes, it is Attila Hildmann. And the singer is Xavier Naidoo in case you're wondering.
I live in Switzerland and have not been following the story closely (it makes my brain hurt). As for the German media I think there are plenty of whacky celebrities who get away with a lot because they generate clicks and views. Naidoo for example got hired as host of tv music show and judge of the German Idol show before getting the boot over extremist comments.
I loved this article - thank you! I am so pleased Art and Matilda took down the podcast, but TBH, in their responses, it seems like they did so grudgingly - they seem to believe Pete Evans' nonsense, which is such a worry!
Agreed! It worries me how many people eat up these opinions without ever researching. My boss is into David Icke-she believes his insane chewing gum theory. SHE’S MY SUPERIOR?!?
Also, more animals with every post please. Thanks x
This writing is the way to win David, thanks, great piece. I believe in free speech, free thinking. We need to be open to being challenged. I'll defend Pete's right to have his opinions, evn though they unsettle me and make me a little angry sometimes. But this right to think and speak freely is hard won, just look at Hong Kong!, and it comes with responsibility. Art and Matilda's response is a reasoned social censorship - we've heard what you've said Pete and actually no, this won't get airtime from us. I believe the right to speak freely does not come with the right to disregard the harm that message may do to others. Wearing a mask in COVID ravaged countries is the definition of sanity, it's caring and kind - spread the love not the disease!
Really great article there David. When I was younger my grandfather said to me “every village has its village idiot” after I was complaining to him about one of the guys I played basketball with. He would usually follow up with “it won’t be long before the other villagers take notice and kick him out into the wilds”. Skip forward 20 years or so and the Internet is one huge mega-village, where village idiots are in abundance and there is no real fear of exclusion from the group for expressing harmful thoughts or attitudes. The peddling of poison seems to be rife these days and the polarisation of opinion seems to be getting wider and wider...where does it end? It could be argued that some people use conspiracies and the likes as a way to avoid reflecting upon their own miserable lives, because it’s simply easier to be a victim and blame something or someone else for their misery than it is to be accountable for their own negative and dangerous thoughts and feelings. I’ve met many a conspiracy fiend and have not yet met one that wasn’t at least a wee bit insecure on the inside. When the desperation of seeking validation meets a host of cognitive biases! Once again, great article my man! Andrew.
Thanks Andrew. I also think it comes down to loving the feeling of possessing secret knowledge. It's empowering. I think what you say is very valid - and I'd add that a little cherry on the top.
The danger with influencers is that they make their money from content. So instead of thinking about the actual impact of their content, they’re focused on how many followers and likes this will get, how much money they’ll make, and how this will propel future followers > likes > content > money > exposure on a continuous loop.
And as you said, influencers are usually not journalists, so they’re looking at these things solely for entertainment value.
Being a celebrity chef might make you an expert in the kitchen but it certainly does not make you a doctor nor a scientist. Not only is it the responsibility of Art and Matilda to not give him a platform, it’s Evans’ own responsibility to not speak publicly about harmful ideas he is not trained or educated in.
You may hate the title, but technically you would be considered an influencer/celebrity yourself (in addition to Journalist, of course). The good news is, you’re doing it right. Thank you for responsibly educating and using your platforms for the greater good (the greater good).
Thanks for these thoughts. Yeah, a lot of people can go "BUT YOU ARE AN INFLUENCER" - and anyone with a platform is. By default. But it's what you do with it. I'd also add there is a definite issue where people become influencers by the sheer fact of their fame, not their message ie going on a celebrity dating show, and then being given 200,000 followers to preach anything to. That is a line, and it's a line that's been really abused!
Really great article - I was also troubled by Pete being included on the podcast and reached out to Art and Matilda, and roar collective.
Also flabbergasted by the number of comments on their “apology” post. Sometimes (actually a lot of the time) a really genuinely fear for humanity.
It’s easy to get lost down a worm hole and get so worked up and frustrated by these recent conspiracy theorists and anti - science rhetoric, and then I came across your page and read this article and realised that someone out there is still talking sense. Hallelujah.
It sucks to see the comments in that thread being agreed on by the show's creators. They haven't learnt a thing. It sucks! I am genuinely dumbfounded on how to explain things & the dangers.
Okay this is actually fascinating as an example of how to peacefully and constructively de-escalate in these days of insane disinformation wars. Its a lot more effort but a lot more effective than telling someone they're stupid and dangerous
Yeah, and I think the circumstances where it works are probably pretty narrow, like if a random member of the public had tried the same thing it wouldn't have been as successful. I guess we could have some kind of "friends dont let friends spread conspiracy theories" approach, although I guess the nature of conspiracy theories means people tend to mostly just trust others who believe in the conspiracy theory
this whole thing reminds me of one of the quote, "if someone says it's raining, and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. your job is to look out the window and find out which is true." i think giving both sides of the story can be useful in certain contexts, but when one "perspective" is causing people to actually die and is just plain untrue, it's reckless to allow them a platform
I’m so gutted. I just wrote a very long, well thought-out comment about my thoughts 😫. I had to sign up to post and then my comment disappeared. I can’t for the life of me write another incredibly insightful comment (Lol), but I do want to say the gist of my point. I work in social media, and therefore I work with influencers often - but I’ve always had a love-hate relationship with them. I think we need to seriously start shedding a light on the talent management industry as well, because I think they have a lot to answer for what they’re being paid and TRUSTED to do on behalf of their clients. They’re paid to help navigate the industry as experts in media, PR and social media, but they’re being blinded by the amount of money they’re making off these people and seem to just push them into every opportunity that means they see some $$ coming in. The influencers without a manager see themselves there for their audience rather than their audience being there to just make them money on what posts they make. I get a CONSIDERABLY higher feedback rate on content from influencers without talent managers than the ones who do. If we do have any conversations, it’s all about the money rather than content and ideas to benefit their client or the client’s audience. I recently worked with Art & Matilda, by recommendation, and I felt like their management company should have done A LOT more in adapting the content for the audience and for their client. They were great to work with and were lovely people. However, they pay these managers to look after their reputation and what they get involved with, but it felt much more transactional than that. It’s just the same relationship we have with our accountants and lawyers, we’re not experts in those fields so we pay the experts to help us navigate what we should and should not do. Yet for some reason, these management companies are going under the radar for not helping their clients make good decisions that they’re trusted to do. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that influencers without talent agencies make better, more well-considered decisions than the ones with an agency. Yes, they are responsible for what they represent, but there’s a lot that goes on behind closed doors with these agencies that we don’t see from the outside. I want to start seeing these companies answering for what they’re doing just as much as the influencers themselves.
Sorry you lost the original post - but appreciate you coming back again! You provide some good insight here. Talent management feels like another pretty gross area to me, as it all just comes down to money. I also wonder if people doing it on their own are just, in a sense, more pure. They also have to answer only for themselves, so perhaps take on more responsibility in a way? I am going to keep thinking about this space. If you had anything to add off the record, I am always davidfarrier@protonmail.com. Thanks again for your support on this newsletter project.
Thank you for writing this! It's crazy that people with such huge followings and Influence don't seem to have any responsibility for what they post. It scares me to think what the the future might look like, but it's nice to know some people care.
Influencers by their nature have no idea how to cope with this stuff. They are in the limelight for doing very little -- and suddenly they are opinions shapers. They are not equipped.
influencers have no Idea, so true !
Who knew 'activated almonds' would turn into australias biggest qanon guy...
"I'm just asking questions!" Irritates me as a defence. As if a question mark changes what they're saying. (Esp since q posts are mostly dumb 'questions') also annoys me that there's qanon people that believe there's no violent talk within it. For 'researchers for truth' they don't research much...
Just asking questions is such a big giveaway for the moronic stuff that comes next, huh. Also - research these days is basically watching a lot of YouTube videos...
It's so sneaky. They know ts awful stuff by 'asking a question' or out of the blue on a mainstream thread etc saying a celebrity should be arrested/worse and for people to Google it. They need the little wiggle room to excuse themselves.
Saying that Pete Evans "offers some interesting insights into nutrition" is a fabulous euphemism, considering this is the man who suggested bone broth as an immensely dangerous alternative to baby formula. I would have thought that would be enough to discredit him forever, but then Andrew Wakefield still has a following so...
The actualy, proven origins of COVID-19 is enough of a terrifying sci fi adventure without blaming Bill Gates, 5G and the medical establishment (it's probably Big Pharma. It's always Big Pharma)
Please keep doing what you are doing. This article and the comments give me a tiny bit of hope that humanity may survive after all. If the rest of the internet is a true reflection of what people believe we are totally f*@ked.
The comments give me hope, too. I think I will include some of them in my next post.
I didn’t want to watch the Pete Evans 60 mins thing, but I did. I thought nah it’s going to be another train wreck, and it was. I then loathed myself a bit afterwards. Like it was mean to watch him. He was soooo intense with the staring smile, very cringey. When he broke down about his Mum and wanting to hug her, that was next level, that the Govt social distancing recommendations were to blame and no one should be in that position, but Pete we’re in a pandemic, I just thought this dudes a bit broken. He sure is a puzzle, but so self-righteous. Is he just another narcissist that feeds on the attention? I wonder why 60mins gave him air time but then I value seeing diverse opinions. As for Art & Matilda, I think they wanted to brush up against Pete just enough but not too much, to liven up their brand a bit then back off quickly. I find it hard to believe they entered into that naively, to selflessly spread/preach wellness as their intention and life-calling. I think they took a calculated risk, and negative attention is still attention, and the dust will settle, and they get their names in print and in peoples conversations. I’m glad you have the platform David to publicly comment on the nutso narrative out there!
Tania... I think we are in the same boat. I watched his 60 Minutes piece with my parents. They have no skin in this game, but they just looked and went "Hooooo boy". It's. So. Obviously. Cooked. Have a great day!
Thank you for calling them out.
It's quite scary to see that all over the world "celebrities" are pushing conspiracy theories. In neighboring Germany there are two celebtrities going full QAnon. One is a singer who has been flirting with right-wing extremist views for several years now. The other is a vegan chef - or rather a guy who wrote several vegan cookbooks to market his merchandise and is not even vegan. A couple of weeks into lockdown he started spreading QAnon theories - Covid, child abuse in bunkers, Soros... He got suspended from Facebook, Twitter and Insta, so he started several telegram channels and has now 80k followers. He calls democrats fascists and fascists democrats, he claims Germany is still oppressed by the US and the German deep state is preparing to vaccinate and chip its citizens aaaaaaand only Trump, Putin and Xi Jiping might save Germany. He calls on his fellow "democrats" to arm themselves and get ready for civil war - or the apocalypse.
It's insane.
WHY IS IT ALWAYS CHEFS?!! Sorry to hear you are getting this twaddle in Germany, as well. It's b o n k e r s. Keep keeping it real. Sanity may one day return. I hope.
I can't believe how small a world this is, that it's this guy (Attila Hildmann) that drives passed my apartment window in Berlin, in his Porsche, with a few hundred(?) other cars behind him in the demonstration. Now I'm reading about these ideas in NZ, and I really hope NZ avoids this madness. Thanks for calling out the BS David, <3 to you from a kiwi in Berlin. Keep it real! Keep NZ smart <3
Is that Attila Hildmann you're referring to? He's quite interesting because when he first started out in the Berlin food scene (keeping in mind that the vegan market is huge in that city compared to other globally) he gained a lot of support from local and nationally prominent influencers. A lot of the ones that I follow who previously raved about him or visited his establishments haven't featured him online for hears. I think the major difference is that German media - big nationwide daily publications - don't hesitate to post very direct articles about how damaging his views are and what he represents. That same directness doesn't exist in a comparatively tiny NZ market - smaller audience, smaller industry, and you may rely on those same people for positive clickbait later on. In a massive media landscape they're able to afford that sort of directness and the risk that it may entail.
Hi Amy. Yes, it is Attila Hildmann. And the singer is Xavier Naidoo in case you're wondering.
I live in Switzerland and have not been following the story closely (it makes my brain hurt). As for the German media I think there are plenty of whacky celebrities who get away with a lot because they generate clicks and views. Naidoo for example got hired as host of tv music show and judge of the German Idol show before getting the boot over extremist comments.
I loved this article - thank you! I am so pleased Art and Matilda took down the podcast, but TBH, in their responses, it seems like they did so grudgingly - they seem to believe Pete Evans' nonsense, which is such a worry!
Their responses are... a real downer.
Agreed! It worries me how many people eat up these opinions without ever researching. My boss is into David Icke-she believes his insane chewing gum theory. SHE’S MY SUPERIOR?!?
Also, more animals with every post please. Thanks x
Let’s just all agree animals are cool. Sorry to hear about your boss. Sad.
This writing is the way to win David, thanks, great piece. I believe in free speech, free thinking. We need to be open to being challenged. I'll defend Pete's right to have his opinions, evn though they unsettle me and make me a little angry sometimes. But this right to think and speak freely is hard won, just look at Hong Kong!, and it comes with responsibility. Art and Matilda's response is a reasoned social censorship - we've heard what you've said Pete and actually no, this won't get airtime from us. I believe the right to speak freely does not come with the right to disregard the harm that message may do to others. Wearing a mask in COVID ravaged countries is the definition of sanity, it's caring and kind - spread the love not the disease!
Really great article there David. When I was younger my grandfather said to me “every village has its village idiot” after I was complaining to him about one of the guys I played basketball with. He would usually follow up with “it won’t be long before the other villagers take notice and kick him out into the wilds”. Skip forward 20 years or so and the Internet is one huge mega-village, where village idiots are in abundance and there is no real fear of exclusion from the group for expressing harmful thoughts or attitudes. The peddling of poison seems to be rife these days and the polarisation of opinion seems to be getting wider and wider...where does it end? It could be argued that some people use conspiracies and the likes as a way to avoid reflecting upon their own miserable lives, because it’s simply easier to be a victim and blame something or someone else for their misery than it is to be accountable for their own negative and dangerous thoughts and feelings. I’ve met many a conspiracy fiend and have not yet met one that wasn’t at least a wee bit insecure on the inside. When the desperation of seeking validation meets a host of cognitive biases! Once again, great article my man! Andrew.
Thanks Andrew. I also think it comes down to loving the feeling of possessing secret knowledge. It's empowering. I think what you say is very valid - and I'd add that a little cherry on the top.
The danger with influencers is that they make their money from content. So instead of thinking about the actual impact of their content, they’re focused on how many followers and likes this will get, how much money they’ll make, and how this will propel future followers > likes > content > money > exposure on a continuous loop.
And as you said, influencers are usually not journalists, so they’re looking at these things solely for entertainment value.
Being a celebrity chef might make you an expert in the kitchen but it certainly does not make you a doctor nor a scientist. Not only is it the responsibility of Art and Matilda to not give him a platform, it’s Evans’ own responsibility to not speak publicly about harmful ideas he is not trained or educated in.
You may hate the title, but technically you would be considered an influencer/celebrity yourself (in addition to Journalist, of course). The good news is, you’re doing it right. Thank you for responsibly educating and using your platforms for the greater good (the greater good).
Thanks for these thoughts. Yeah, a lot of people can go "BUT YOU ARE AN INFLUENCER" - and anyone with a platform is. By default. But it's what you do with it. I'd also add there is a definite issue where people become influencers by the sheer fact of their fame, not their message ie going on a celebrity dating show, and then being given 200,000 followers to preach anything to. That is a line, and it's a line that's been really abused!
Really great article - I was also troubled by Pete being included on the podcast and reached out to Art and Matilda, and roar collective.
Also flabbergasted by the number of comments on their “apology” post. Sometimes (actually a lot of the time) a really genuinely fear for humanity.
It’s easy to get lost down a worm hole and get so worked up and frustrated by these recent conspiracy theorists and anti - science rhetoric, and then I came across your page and read this article and realised that someone out there is still talking sense. Hallelujah.
It sucks to see the comments in that thread being agreed on by the show's creators. They haven't learnt a thing. It sucks! I am genuinely dumbfounded on how to explain things & the dangers.
Okay this is actually fascinating as an example of how to peacefully and constructively de-escalate in these days of insane disinformation wars. Its a lot more effort but a lot more effective than telling someone they're stupid and dangerous
It's worth a try, on occasion...
Yeah, and I think the circumstances where it works are probably pretty narrow, like if a random member of the public had tried the same thing it wouldn't have been as successful. I guess we could have some kind of "friends dont let friends spread conspiracy theories" approach, although I guess the nature of conspiracy theories means people tend to mostly just trust others who believe in the conspiracy theory
this whole thing reminds me of one of the quote, "if someone says it's raining, and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. your job is to look out the window and find out which is true." i think giving both sides of the story can be useful in certain contexts, but when one "perspective" is causing people to actually die and is just plain untrue, it's reckless to allow them a platform
i just saw my typo i can't win smh
All of this. Yes.
Thank you David. Keep doing what you are doing. Someone will figure out a counter narrative that flies one day. Hopefully really soon!
Thanks Charley. You get it.
I’m so gutted. I just wrote a very long, well thought-out comment about my thoughts 😫. I had to sign up to post and then my comment disappeared. I can’t for the life of me write another incredibly insightful comment (Lol), but I do want to say the gist of my point. I work in social media, and therefore I work with influencers often - but I’ve always had a love-hate relationship with them. I think we need to seriously start shedding a light on the talent management industry as well, because I think they have a lot to answer for what they’re being paid and TRUSTED to do on behalf of their clients. They’re paid to help navigate the industry as experts in media, PR and social media, but they’re being blinded by the amount of money they’re making off these people and seem to just push them into every opportunity that means they see some $$ coming in. The influencers without a manager see themselves there for their audience rather than their audience being there to just make them money on what posts they make. I get a CONSIDERABLY higher feedback rate on content from influencers without talent managers than the ones who do. If we do have any conversations, it’s all about the money rather than content and ideas to benefit their client or the client’s audience. I recently worked with Art & Matilda, by recommendation, and I felt like their management company should have done A LOT more in adapting the content for the audience and for their client. They were great to work with and were lovely people. However, they pay these managers to look after their reputation and what they get involved with, but it felt much more transactional than that. It’s just the same relationship we have with our accountants and lawyers, we’re not experts in those fields so we pay the experts to help us navigate what we should and should not do. Yet for some reason, these management companies are going under the radar for not helping their clients make good decisions that they’re trusted to do. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that influencers without talent agencies make better, more well-considered decisions than the ones with an agency. Yes, they are responsible for what they represent, but there’s a lot that goes on behind closed doors with these agencies that we don’t see from the outside. I want to start seeing these companies answering for what they’re doing just as much as the influencers themselves.
Sorry you lost the original post - but appreciate you coming back again! You provide some good insight here. Talent management feels like another pretty gross area to me, as it all just comes down to money. I also wonder if people doing it on their own are just, in a sense, more pure. They also have to answer only for themselves, so perhaps take on more responsibility in a way? I am going to keep thinking about this space. If you had anything to add off the record, I am always davidfarrier@protonmail.com. Thanks again for your support on this newsletter project.