Welcome back to the comments section Paul Wilson. Please place your questions for Paul in the comment thread below, and I'll endeavour to harass him until he gives out his psychological secrets for free
LOL. You know, I kind of wonder if both of us came from a family where teasing was indulged and encouraged by our parents. Well, in the spirit of self-disclosure, I certainly did.
My mother would justify teasing as preparing us for 'verbal combat' and criticism in the real world. I think there is some merit to that idea, although she would take it too far some times and as she came from a very abusive family, I think it was partly an outlet for her own disowned rage at her parents and how me and my sister 'had it easy' in comparison.
I say all this because I think you seem to generally save your most sarcastic teasing for people you either actually like or completely hate :-) I think I'm in the former camp....
True, but in this case I genuinely want to receive your psychological insights for free, so it's less about liking you and more about my greed. I really like your comments! I learn a lot!
All good. There is a lot I could say on this topic and it will all be going into my article series on sadism which, like webworm, people will be able to read for free if they choose :-)
One of my parenrs' friends got an OBE for his work during the Troubles. He had a project where he took protestant kids and catholic kids and did a mixed summer camp with them up on the north coast away from their communities and families so they could get to know each other without outside influence. It made a huge impact on those kids, who had often never met someone from the other side of the divide. When you don't have a chance to have that connection, it can so easily lead to division and hatred. The internet has definitely made it much easier for that to happen.
Twice in my life, I've had to take a sick day from work to deal with online harassment in my personal life.
Once I was worried about being doxxed when I found myself the target of the day for the C*micsgate mob for tweeting the night before I'd read a graphic novel that day and knew before looking at the credits not a single woman had worked on it. I spent the day changing my passwords for every single online account. They moved on quickly and I haven't really thought about it since.
The second time, I had tweeted something the night before that someone took the wrong way and woke up to hundreds of tweets, some from actual friends of mine, telling me I was a horrible person. I did my best to clarify but I lost several long time online friendships from someone reading a tweet wrong and doubling down (and a few bad faith actors encouraging it.) It's been almost a year and I still feel unwelcome in online spaces I used to be comfortable in.
I’m sorry you went through that, Molly. I wish it were a rarer experience for people on the internet, women especially, since it often has a gendered edge. Humans are not psychologically wired to cope with so much hostility and negativity in a short space of time. It triggers our shame responses and a strong compulsion to withdraw to protect ourselves and our self-esteem from further injury.
And roving troll gangs looking for someone (anyone!) to swing at is impacting a lot of people - 40-60% of people report experiencing instances of trolling and harassment online.
I’m in the process of writing an article series on the psychological phenomenon of human sadism including the impacts of trolling and how to cope with it. Contact me on paul.murray.wilson@gmail.com if you’re interested in talking more about it.
The last time I saw Jacinda Ardern in person - just as she was leaving the office of PM - she had one piece of advice for me: "Don't read the social media". It beggars belief that people can be so cruel, but this article does help explain why - there are no excuses of course!!
Yes, but it can also be a tool with good uses (I have made some close IRL friends via Twitter) and also some work sort of requires it - or at least knowledge of that world. I'd just keep that in mind before boiling it down to "compulsion".
*sigh* Earlier this year I blocked online and completely cut-off IRL my former friend of 35+ years, one of my best girls ever since school, because her online anger broke the camel's already laden back. In a post (public! Is she mad??) she called a politician a "virtue signalling cunt" and "fucking entitled socialist" because they had shoplifted expensive goods in what can only be seen as a mental health crisis.
I don't know the person concerned, but I know how to talk to, and about, people with decency and after years of my friend's simmering anger and judgemental ignorance, I finally decided I don't have the stomach (or nervous system) for this attitude or language.
This isn't to go "Well done, me!" - it's heartbreaking and I've grappled with whether my rejection is unloving and unsympathetic. Ultimately I'm protecting myself from the stress of dealing with her.
But regarding the online vs in-person aspect - I subscribe to the "don't read the comments!" rule and I'm careful if I ever engage online (I generally don't). Though I admit I do watch myself get mad on the road from time-to-time :-/
I did a similar thing last year. Less time involved - 10 years - and we'd drifted. But yeah - online behaviour says a lot, I think. And we have to keep our own sanity safe.
Oof. I suspect I know the NZ political situation you're likely talking out and many people don't understand loss-reactive shoplifting, or how trauma can make people become self-harming.
But that must have been extra rough with such a long time friend. But I get the sense you'd been (anxiously?) aware of her simmering rage and envy and impaired empathy for a long time.
We often fear that confronting someone about that might get that rage and envy aimed at us. If the friendship already wasn't as reciprocal as you'd have wished, it becomes a very personal judgement call about whether we feel any deeper investment in emotional labour is likely to be returned.
I had to block a (formerly) dear relative I had literally known all my life & felt really close to, during the occupation of Parliament - out of the blue this extreme anti-vaccine anti-COVID measures anti-Jacinda unhinged rhetoric was appearing in my FB feed, which had previously only been about births, deaths, marriages & family events. I told them what I was going to do & why. It felt icky, but it was self-care at a time when life was already stressful enough. I don't know if they "saw the light" when the person(s) they were parroting were exposed as unworthy of worshipful following - thankfully funerals/tangi have been scarce so we have not been in the same place at the same time 🤷
Good on you for standing your ground. A response I've noticed from people in the US is to become abusive toward the people calling them out for the behavior in an attempt to normalize it. This has been going on since at least 2008.
In a weird way, this makes me think of your piece about punishment Hayden. A lot of social media, especially Twitter, seems to be built around punishing people for their failings, be it their ignorance or their bad opinions or in some case just existing. Of course, we don't want anyone to actually LEARN from this. That would take all the fun out of it.
Re: the election. A month ago I wrote a really long comment here about why Joe Biden should stay in the race and all the ways it could spell disaster for the Democrats of they forced him out. And not only was I completely wrong, but I have never been so happier to be wrong. Kamala Harris has been a breath of fresh air, and she's re-invigorated the Democratic party. For the first time in years, I'm actually looking forward to an election. So feel free to ignore anything I say about politics in the future. I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.
I too was completely wrong about Kamala, nothing personal, but I predicted she would be suicide for the Dems. Im so glad to be proven wrong. And really, what do I know what it's like on the ground in the US. Watching with great interest and hope.
Kamala's favoribility ratings have swung double digits from net negative to net positive in a week, which is pretty unprecedented for a known national figure. And she's erased Trump's polling leads, both nationally and in swing states. There's still a lot of work to do, but there's also 100 days to do it. I'm actually feeling good about our chances right now.
I felt the same, as in I was confident that the Biden/Harris ticket as it was would win the election, and I haven't changed my mind on that, as I think that in the end the stakes were so high that people would vote accordingly (& we hadn't even had the gift of JD Vance yet!) However, it is undeniable that by stepping aside & unreservedly endorsing VP Harris, Pres Biden destroyed the media obsession with HIS age and HIS mental capacity (while ignoring Drumpfs issues in their reporting) and unleashed the "Prosecutor v The Felon" fight to wild acclaim. I'm loving the chaos in the GOP ranks as they try to figure out what the heck is going on 😁
Oh, okay: "Democrats have highlighted former President Donald J. Trump’s remarks as evidence he would end elections. On Monday, he declined to back away from his comments and repeated his argument that if he’s elected, “the country will be fixed” and their votes won’t be needed."
I have post anxiety because of online harassment for simple questions that were deemed inflammatory (asking for clarification on environmental impact on a product wasn't really that big of a deal I thought but wow, I was wrong) anyhoozels now I'm a serial deleter...I'll post something then go back and delete it incase I've shared to much, or been overly compassionate, or my Kiwi humour goes down like a lead balloon.....all sorts of reasons. Im never unkind or abusive, but It still stresses me out, so I stop interacting. I suspect ADHD has something to do with it, or maybe I'm just better at this stuff in person as Hayden points out. Anyway glad to hear you had a wonderful 3 weeks in NZ, love the pics. I'm going to post this now and not delete it. I will be brave like David. Have a great week Worms xxx
I hear you, Julez. But the sickening awfulness of some comments to others drives my reluctance. Plus the repeated misinformation others try to force into any conversation opening, relevant or not, bores and annoys me. Because I'm minimally present I have mostly avoided any personal attacks. ...Anyway, I'm forcing myself to toughen up. (Not saying 'you' should, just that 'I' need to.) Hence, I make an effort to join these online conversations when I have something to share. Why? ...The problem I have is my minimal online persona. I'm working on trying to get a publishing agent for my novel. They want to know if I'm a 'worthwhile' person to take an interest in as an author, and it seems having lots of online friends makes it so. Sad for me, trying to stay off online platforms. I want to shout, 'Just read the book will ya. It's not all about me!' When I read a book, I'm not interested that the author has 2.5 kids, six three-legged cats and lives in the mountains ... just give me a great plot and characters and let me read!!! ...Apologies, now I'm the one off the point and being my own bad example. Anyway, Julez (looking you in the eye) I don't think our brains are wired to cope well with the online vileness - it may be a matter of retreat, or become one. Maybe brain-wiring will evolve to meet this challenge, but not in my lifetime. So, I quite like, retreat plus have your say and delete. Writing it is cathartic. Deleting is self-affirmation. ...(B***er the novel - I'll probably go Indie.)
Oh yeah, I fully appreciate all you've said here. I've had many internal conversations about growing a thicker skin, especially to market yourself for future opportunities. I follow many clever people who have done a great job of it👍 to bad the work can't speak for itself however haha.
Ha, I just deleted a comment seconds before reading yours. Go you, I loved your comment. Im going back up the comments chain to make that comment I deleted. Thank you.
Sometimes these trolls are just as nasty in real life as they are online. It helps when they exposed and held to account
From news story March 2020
“A false social media account with a fake photo and name which regularly sent sexist, abusive messages to left-leaning women politicians in Christchurch was recently traced to a house owned by Young Nats member Bryce Beattie.
RNZ understands Beattie's flatmate, Jessee Mackenzie - also believed to be a member of the Young Nats - has taken responsibility, and both have resigned their National Party membership.”
It took a lot of effort for the women to uncover the trolls from the young national . And masking them did stop the activity. We need to make it much easier to unmask these people.
People do say really nasty stuff face-to-face , it is the holding account by society that stops them not the fact they have to look each other in the eye. The people doing it face-to-face are playing power games that they think they can win They are arrogant and aggressive. If you watch parliament TV, you can witness this behaviour on a regular basis even though these people walk past each other every day in the halls of power.
Being empathetic to strangers and people on the internet is a learned skill. I imagine most people have experienced trollery and don’t wish to visit that upon other worms. I’m all for discourse, it’s the only way to grow. But there has to be good faith on both sides. Non-face to face interactions rarely have any good faith.
I’d go one step further than that. Empathy in general is not innate in social species, primates included. Our learning of it is heavily influenced by our early experience of our care-givers. If they are good enough (no parent is perfect), we internalise empathy from (mostly) consistently experiencing it. If we didn’t have empathic parents, we’re more likely to struggle to be empathic towards our selves or towards others and our envy and sadism can emerge. That deficit can be modified by later experiences - that’s partly what psychotherapy is. But you are right that the internet stresses any empathic abilities (or lack of them) to breakage point in many people - especially on X/Twitter with its enforced brevity.
I saw a performer recently called Zig Beatnik. He plays a shopping trolley. I find him really good. Anyway of the lines in one of his songs about the internet goes, "It's just an opinion.....mate."
Thanks for the piece Hayden/David… or is it David/Hayden. Dayden. Hayvid. Digression ensues.
I recently moved to a new part of the country and in the effort of meeting new people, I have got talking to a few out on my walks. All convivial, have facebook frienderised a couple so far. However looking through the feed of one who I thought would be a good friend-match, I see a bunch of anti-te reo, anti-LGBTQ+ crap with polar opposite religious and political views. No indication this person was like this in the chats I’ve had with them. I now have this hanging over me every time I talk to them and wonder about the effects of social media and being able to compartmentalise people so quickly now. Back in the day you’d have to form a much closer bond before being let in on this stuff… is it good or bad? I really don’t know.
I guess one good thing about having access to people's online lives is seeing what they really think *behind* the day-to-day social filter. A shock, but good stuff to be aware of.
lol, I just googled bood and gad to see if I had just wrote something nutty, and GAD means that you are worrying constantly and can't control it. Sounds like me.
Hayden has hit the nail on the head there. I think this is why large corporations are brutal when chasing a dollar. The thousands of people they affect because the spreadsheet looks better are not staring right back at them in the moment the decision is made.
Social Media, is that our biggest oxymoron of all time?
Thanks for writing this, Hayden, and everyone for sharing their stories. It's particularly great to have our own "resident psychologist" Paul responding so empathetically to people who got hurt by the trolls - even worse when it's your own friends or family. We just had a minor example of this phenomenon on our Golden Bay Noticeboard on Facebook, usually a lovely gathering of friendly locals helping each other out. One Frenchman who lives here wrote a nice post offering help organising travel overseas, and mentioned the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Oh boy - after 86 hate-filled screech posts by "Christians" in less than an hour, the admin had to shut off all comments.
73% of our coral reefs are dying, Antarctica has a heat wave that might destabilise the Thwaites Glacier raising sea levels globally by god knows what, a weird orange fascist is running on a full dictator platform in the most powerful military-industrial complex on Earth, there are horrendous wars and suffering in every corner of this planet, and the AMOC may shut down in a couple of years, plunging billions of people into disaster. But yeah, let's scream at each other about imagined testes and a complete ignorance of history and art. Sigh. We are too dumb to drive this technology.
Eesh. I can believe that. Conspiratorially inclined Evangelical Christians claiming the Olympics opening is irrefutable evidence of Satanic spiritual warfare on the ascendant is quite something to behold.
From my perspective, intense Evangelical belief is often partly a defense against existential anxiety so people can get very emotional (and abusive) when that is perceived as threatened and you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Āe - I grew up in a very Catholic country and family, and yet none of my whānau (with all their various untreated c-PTSDs, mental health issues and personality disorders) ever got into such depths of satanic panic. I mean, there’s a common Austrian saying: “den Teufel an die Wand malen” (painting the devil on the wall), which means always expecting the worst - and the women in my family are well renowned for doing that - but other than my aunty who claimed a couple of incidences of actually seeing the devil and ghosts of deceased family members, this reaction would be seen as completely over-the-top. Even in a clinically crazy family with many centuries of strong religious peasant indoctrination. Evangelicals seem to take this stuff to a whole new level, particularly around the extent of the outrage, and immediately jumping not just to cancel culture but wanting complete Christofascist dictatorship… never thought I’d say the traumatised Austrian Catholics I grew up with were the “normal” ones in comparison!!
Yeah, most of the Evangelical communities here in NZ now seem to be watching the more extreme Christian media produced in the US. Arise and City Impact were both showing that to their congregations as I recall from David and Hayden's reporting.
These congregations were always inside an information bubble controlled by their pastors but now it's super-infused with content designed to push the fear and moral outrage buttons that all humans innately have.
As social primates, we evolved our capacity for moral outrage to police and prevent individuals betraying the expectations of reciprocal altruism that make groups worth belonging to in survival terms i.e. taking from the groups resources and then avoiding paying it back. Basically, they are intended to detect and punish sociopathic behaviour that benefits a selfish individual at the cost of the group. But that outrage can so easily be weaponised to reinforce the in-group loyalty and target a chosen out-group or scapegoat.
The so called 'cuddle hormone' oxytocin strengthens positive emotions and bonding towards intimates and in-group members but also intensifies our hostility towards out-groups. George Orwell's 'two minute hate' sessions in his novel 1984 were more neurobiologically astute than he likely realised when he envisaged them.
Exactly. And in that same speech he blurted out “I’m not a Christian but…”. He’ll call it a mistake but yeah nah. That guy will always blab out the real story if you listen carefully enough - much like watching him squirm while getting interviewed about releasing the Epstein files. Pretty obvious he’s got something to hide there.
Just a note that it's allowable for you to scream profanities at me for captioning the Alien screenshot "1989's Alien".
This has been amended.
Fuck you man
Well said.
the great thing about this comment is that I saw you yesterday so can still imagine you as a human being and I still said it
Hmmm.
I ran to the comments so quick 😅
And rightfully so!
I assumed it was deliberate, to emphasise the very point of the article 😂
Yes, this. Of course it was. Deliberate. Making a point. Yes. That!
Welcome back to the comments section Paul Wilson. Please place your questions for Paul in the comment thread below, and I'll endeavour to harass him until he gives out his psychological secrets for free
LOL. You know, I kind of wonder if both of us came from a family where teasing was indulged and encouraged by our parents. Well, in the spirit of self-disclosure, I certainly did.
My mother would justify teasing as preparing us for 'verbal combat' and criticism in the real world. I think there is some merit to that idea, although she would take it too far some times and as she came from a very abusive family, I think it was partly an outlet for her own disowned rage at her parents and how me and my sister 'had it easy' in comparison.
I say all this because I think you seem to generally save your most sarcastic teasing for people you either actually like or completely hate :-) I think I'm in the former camp....
True, but in this case I genuinely want to receive your psychological insights for free, so it's less about liking you and more about my greed. I really like your comments! I learn a lot!
All good. There is a lot I could say on this topic and it will all be going into my article series on sadism which, like webworm, people will be able to read for free if they choose :-)
I have pinned this! (bit late, sorry!)
One of my parenrs' friends got an OBE for his work during the Troubles. He had a project where he took protestant kids and catholic kids and did a mixed summer camp with them up on the north coast away from their communities and families so they could get to know each other without outside influence. It made a huge impact on those kids, who had often never met someone from the other side of the divide. When you don't have a chance to have that connection, it can so easily lead to division and hatred. The internet has definitely made it much easier for that to happen.
Have you seen Derry Girls? There’s an episode about this
I have not and have now added this to my watchlist.
Omg do NOT skip the show pilot. It’s renaissance level good. The whole series is utterly charming and hilariously sharp.
Oh myyyy, you’re going to LOVE it. What a show
So good!!
Derry Girls should be mandatory viewing in my opinion! It’s so good at being absolutely ridiculous while addressing all the hard stuff
I have indeed! Particularly funny episode 😂
Yessssssss for Derry girls 🤩 an amazing episode.
thank you, on my to watch list now
Twice in my life, I've had to take a sick day from work to deal with online harassment in my personal life.
Once I was worried about being doxxed when I found myself the target of the day for the C*micsgate mob for tweeting the night before I'd read a graphic novel that day and knew before looking at the credits not a single woman had worked on it. I spent the day changing my passwords for every single online account. They moved on quickly and I haven't really thought about it since.
The second time, I had tweeted something the night before that someone took the wrong way and woke up to hundreds of tweets, some from actual friends of mine, telling me I was a horrible person. I did my best to clarify but I lost several long time online friendships from someone reading a tweet wrong and doubling down (and a few bad faith actors encouraging it.) It's been almost a year and I still feel unwelcome in online spaces I used to be comfortable in.
God, the internet sucks sometimes.
I’m sorry you went through that, Molly. I wish it were a rarer experience for people on the internet, women especially, since it often has a gendered edge. Humans are not psychologically wired to cope with so much hostility and negativity in a short space of time. It triggers our shame responses and a strong compulsion to withdraw to protect ourselves and our self-esteem from further injury.
And roving troll gangs looking for someone (anyone!) to swing at is impacting a lot of people - 40-60% of people report experiencing instances of trolling and harassment online.
I’m in the process of writing an article series on the psychological phenomenon of human sadism including the impacts of trolling and how to cope with it. Contact me on paul.murray.wilson@gmail.com if you’re interested in talking more about it.
The last time I saw Jacinda Ardern in person - just as she was leaving the office of PM - she had one piece of advice for me: "Don't read the social media". It beggars belief that people can be so cruel, but this article does help explain why - there are no excuses of course!!
No compulsion to have a twitter account Molly.
Yes, but it can also be a tool with good uses (I have made some close IRL friends via Twitter) and also some work sort of requires it - or at least knowledge of that world. I'd just keep that in mind before boiling it down to "compulsion".
*sigh* Earlier this year I blocked online and completely cut-off IRL my former friend of 35+ years, one of my best girls ever since school, because her online anger broke the camel's already laden back. In a post (public! Is she mad??) she called a politician a "virtue signalling cunt" and "fucking entitled socialist" because they had shoplifted expensive goods in what can only be seen as a mental health crisis.
I don't know the person concerned, but I know how to talk to, and about, people with decency and after years of my friend's simmering anger and judgemental ignorance, I finally decided I don't have the stomach (or nervous system) for this attitude or language.
This isn't to go "Well done, me!" - it's heartbreaking and I've grappled with whether my rejection is unloving and unsympathetic. Ultimately I'm protecting myself from the stress of dealing with her.
But regarding the online vs in-person aspect - I subscribe to the "don't read the comments!" rule and I'm careful if I ever engage online (I generally don't). Though I admit I do watch myself get mad on the road from time-to-time :-/
Humans, eh!
I did a similar thing last year. Less time involved - 10 years - and we'd drifted. But yeah - online behaviour says a lot, I think. And we have to keep our own sanity safe.
Oof. I suspect I know the NZ political situation you're likely talking out and many people don't understand loss-reactive shoplifting, or how trauma can make people become self-harming.
But that must have been extra rough with such a long time friend. But I get the sense you'd been (anxiously?) aware of her simmering rage and envy and impaired empathy for a long time.
We often fear that confronting someone about that might get that rage and envy aimed at us. If the friendship already wasn't as reciprocal as you'd have wished, it becomes a very personal judgement call about whether we feel any deeper investment in emotional labour is likely to be returned.
*hugs*
Thankyou so much, Paul, for your validating and compassionate response. :)
I had to block a (formerly) dear relative I had literally known all my life & felt really close to, during the occupation of Parliament - out of the blue this extreme anti-vaccine anti-COVID measures anti-Jacinda unhinged rhetoric was appearing in my FB feed, which had previously only been about births, deaths, marriages & family events. I told them what I was going to do & why. It felt icky, but it was self-care at a time when life was already stressful enough. I don't know if they "saw the light" when the person(s) they were parroting were exposed as unworthy of worshipful following - thankfully funerals/tangi have been scarce so we have not been in the same place at the same time 🤷
I'm so sorry :( This is awful and I can imagine how sad it made you.
Good on you for standing your ground. A response I've noticed from people in the US is to become abusive toward the people calling them out for the behavior in an attempt to normalize it. This has been going on since at least 2008.
In a weird way, this makes me think of your piece about punishment Hayden. A lot of social media, especially Twitter, seems to be built around punishing people for their failings, be it their ignorance or their bad opinions or in some case just existing. Of course, we don't want anyone to actually LEARN from this. That would take all the fun out of it.
Re: the election. A month ago I wrote a really long comment here about why Joe Biden should stay in the race and all the ways it could spell disaster for the Democrats of they forced him out. And not only was I completely wrong, but I have never been so happier to be wrong. Kamala Harris has been a breath of fresh air, and she's re-invigorated the Democratic party. For the first time in years, I'm actually looking forward to an election. So feel free to ignore anything I say about politics in the future. I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.
I too was completely wrong about Kamala, nothing personal, but I predicted she would be suicide for the Dems. Im so glad to be proven wrong. And really, what do I know what it's like on the ground in the US. Watching with great interest and hope.
Kamala's favoribility ratings have swung double digits from net negative to net positive in a week, which is pretty unprecedented for a known national figure. And she's erased Trump's polling leads, both nationally and in swing states. There's still a lot of work to do, but there's also 100 days to do it. I'm actually feeling good about our chances right now.
I felt the same, as in I was confident that the Biden/Harris ticket as it was would win the election, and I haven't changed my mind on that, as I think that in the end the stakes were so high that people would vote accordingly (& we hadn't even had the gift of JD Vance yet!) However, it is undeniable that by stepping aside & unreservedly endorsing VP Harris, Pres Biden destroyed the media obsession with HIS age and HIS mental capacity (while ignoring Drumpfs issues in their reporting) and unleashed the "Prosecutor v The Felon" fight to wild acclaim. I'm loving the chaos in the GOP ranks as they try to figure out what the heck is going on 😁
Oh, okay: "Democrats have highlighted former President Donald J. Trump’s remarks as evidence he would end elections. On Monday, he declined to back away from his comments and repeated his argument that if he’s elected, “the country will be fixed” and their votes won’t be needed."
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/30/us/harris-trump-election?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
Call me harsh, but you lose the benefit of the doubt after trying to overthrow the government the first time.
I have post anxiety because of online harassment for simple questions that were deemed inflammatory (asking for clarification on environmental impact on a product wasn't really that big of a deal I thought but wow, I was wrong) anyhoozels now I'm a serial deleter...I'll post something then go back and delete it incase I've shared to much, or been overly compassionate, or my Kiwi humour goes down like a lead balloon.....all sorts of reasons. Im never unkind or abusive, but It still stresses me out, so I stop interacting. I suspect ADHD has something to do with it, or maybe I'm just better at this stuff in person as Hayden points out. Anyway glad to hear you had a wonderful 3 weeks in NZ, love the pics. I'm going to post this now and not delete it. I will be brave like David. Have a great week Worms xxx
I hear you, Julez. But the sickening awfulness of some comments to others drives my reluctance. Plus the repeated misinformation others try to force into any conversation opening, relevant or not, bores and annoys me. Because I'm minimally present I have mostly avoided any personal attacks. ...Anyway, I'm forcing myself to toughen up. (Not saying 'you' should, just that 'I' need to.) Hence, I make an effort to join these online conversations when I have something to share. Why? ...The problem I have is my minimal online persona. I'm working on trying to get a publishing agent for my novel. They want to know if I'm a 'worthwhile' person to take an interest in as an author, and it seems having lots of online friends makes it so. Sad for me, trying to stay off online platforms. I want to shout, 'Just read the book will ya. It's not all about me!' When I read a book, I'm not interested that the author has 2.5 kids, six three-legged cats and lives in the mountains ... just give me a great plot and characters and let me read!!! ...Apologies, now I'm the one off the point and being my own bad example. Anyway, Julez (looking you in the eye) I don't think our brains are wired to cope well with the online vileness - it may be a matter of retreat, or become one. Maybe brain-wiring will evolve to meet this challenge, but not in my lifetime. So, I quite like, retreat plus have your say and delete. Writing it is cathartic. Deleting is self-affirmation. ...(B***er the novel - I'll probably go Indie.)
Oh yeah, I fully appreciate all you've said here. I've had many internal conversations about growing a thicker skin, especially to market yourself for future opportunities. I follow many clever people who have done a great job of it👍 to bad the work can't speak for itself however haha.
Good luck with the book!
I hear you! I delete things fairly frequently, too!
Ha, I just deleted a comment seconds before reading yours. Go you, I loved your comment. Im going back up the comments chain to make that comment I deleted. Thank you.
We've got this! :D
Sometimes these trolls are just as nasty in real life as they are online. It helps when they exposed and held to account
From news story March 2020
“A false social media account with a fake photo and name which regularly sent sexist, abusive messages to left-leaning women politicians in Christchurch was recently traced to a house owned by Young Nats member Bryce Beattie.
RNZ understands Beattie's flatmate, Jessee Mackenzie - also believed to be a member of the Young Nats - has taken responsibility, and both have resigned their National Party membership.”
It took a lot of effort for the women to uncover the trolls from the young national . And masking them did stop the activity. We need to make it much easier to unmask these people.
People do say really nasty stuff face-to-face , it is the holding account by society that stops them not the fact they have to look each other in the eye. The people doing it face-to-face are playing power games that they think they can win They are arrogant and aggressive. If you watch parliament TV, you can witness this behaviour on a regular basis even though these people walk past each other every day in the halls of power.
Being empathetic to strangers and people on the internet is a learned skill. I imagine most people have experienced trollery and don’t wish to visit that upon other worms. I’m all for discourse, it’s the only way to grow. But there has to be good faith on both sides. Non-face to face interactions rarely have any good faith.
I’d go one step further than that. Empathy in general is not innate in social species, primates included. Our learning of it is heavily influenced by our early experience of our care-givers. If they are good enough (no parent is perfect), we internalise empathy from (mostly) consistently experiencing it. If we didn’t have empathic parents, we’re more likely to struggle to be empathic towards our selves or towards others and our envy and sadism can emerge. That deficit can be modified by later experiences - that’s partly what psychotherapy is. But you are right that the internet stresses any empathic abilities (or lack of them) to breakage point in many people - especially on X/Twitter with its enforced brevity.
I saw a performer recently called Zig Beatnik. He plays a shopping trolley. I find him really good. Anyway of the lines in one of his songs about the internet goes, "It's just an opinion.....mate."
Thanks for the piece Hayden/David… or is it David/Hayden. Dayden. Hayvid. Digression ensues.
I recently moved to a new part of the country and in the effort of meeting new people, I have got talking to a few out on my walks. All convivial, have facebook frienderised a couple so far. However looking through the feed of one who I thought would be a good friend-match, I see a bunch of anti-te reo, anti-LGBTQ+ crap with polar opposite religious and political views. No indication this person was like this in the chats I’ve had with them. I now have this hanging over me every time I talk to them and wonder about the effects of social media and being able to compartmentalise people so quickly now. Back in the day you’d have to form a much closer bond before being let in on this stuff… is it good or bad? I really don’t know.
I guess one good thing about having access to people's online lives is seeing what they really think *behind* the day-to-day social filter. A shock, but good stuff to be aware of.
💯
Yes. Meeting my sisters new boyfriend. Good social times, then became facebook friends. Now I get to see another side, sigh.
BTW, its both, bood and gad
lol, I just googled bood and gad to see if I had just wrote something nutty, and GAD means that you are worrying constantly and can't control it. Sounds like me.
Gaaaad!! Love it 😂
Hayden has hit the nail on the head there. I think this is why large corporations are brutal when chasing a dollar. The thousands of people they affect because the spreadsheet looks better are not staring right back at them in the moment the decision is made.
Social Media, is that our biggest oxymoron of all time?
Thanks for writing this, Hayden, and everyone for sharing their stories. It's particularly great to have our own "resident psychologist" Paul responding so empathetically to people who got hurt by the trolls - even worse when it's your own friends or family. We just had a minor example of this phenomenon on our Golden Bay Noticeboard on Facebook, usually a lovely gathering of friendly locals helping each other out. One Frenchman who lives here wrote a nice post offering help organising travel overseas, and mentioned the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Oh boy - after 86 hate-filled screech posts by "Christians" in less than an hour, the admin had to shut off all comments.
73% of our coral reefs are dying, Antarctica has a heat wave that might destabilise the Thwaites Glacier raising sea levels globally by god knows what, a weird orange fascist is running on a full dictator platform in the most powerful military-industrial complex on Earth, there are horrendous wars and suffering in every corner of this planet, and the AMOC may shut down in a couple of years, plunging billions of people into disaster. But yeah, let's scream at each other about imagined testes and a complete ignorance of history and art. Sigh. We are too dumb to drive this technology.
Eesh. I can believe that. Conspiratorially inclined Evangelical Christians claiming the Olympics opening is irrefutable evidence of Satanic spiritual warfare on the ascendant is quite something to behold.
From my perspective, intense Evangelical belief is often partly a defense against existential anxiety so people can get very emotional (and abusive) when that is perceived as threatened and you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Āe - I grew up in a very Catholic country and family, and yet none of my whānau (with all their various untreated c-PTSDs, mental health issues and personality disorders) ever got into such depths of satanic panic. I mean, there’s a common Austrian saying: “den Teufel an die Wand malen” (painting the devil on the wall), which means always expecting the worst - and the women in my family are well renowned for doing that - but other than my aunty who claimed a couple of incidences of actually seeing the devil and ghosts of deceased family members, this reaction would be seen as completely over-the-top. Even in a clinically crazy family with many centuries of strong religious peasant indoctrination. Evangelicals seem to take this stuff to a whole new level, particularly around the extent of the outrage, and immediately jumping not just to cancel culture but wanting complete Christofascist dictatorship… never thought I’d say the traumatised Austrian Catholics I grew up with were the “normal” ones in comparison!!
Yeah, most of the Evangelical communities here in NZ now seem to be watching the more extreme Christian media produced in the US. Arise and City Impact were both showing that to their congregations as I recall from David and Hayden's reporting.
These congregations were always inside an information bubble controlled by their pastors but now it's super-infused with content designed to push the fear and moral outrage buttons that all humans innately have.
As social primates, we evolved our capacity for moral outrage to police and prevent individuals betraying the expectations of reciprocal altruism that make groups worth belonging to in survival terms i.e. taking from the groups resources and then avoiding paying it back. Basically, they are intended to detect and punish sociopathic behaviour that benefits a selfish individual at the cost of the group. But that outrage can so easily be weaponised to reinforce the in-group loyalty and target a chosen out-group or scapegoat.
The so called 'cuddle hormone' oxytocin strengthens positive emotions and bonding towards intimates and in-group members but also intensifies our hostility towards out-groups. George Orwell's 'two minute hate' sessions in his novel 1984 were more neurobiologically astute than he likely realised when he envisaged them.
I LOVE EVERYTHING YOU JUST WROTE! You gotta write a(nother?) book about this, Paul!!!
I tried Facebook. I lasted about a month. Life is too short for that sort of rubbish.
Penny Arcade's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory explains this phenomenon succinctly:
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies
God Penny Arcade is good. Had not seen that one somehow. Many thanks. The audience factor certainly contributes eh.....
Thanks for ruining my productivity for today ;)
...the way that Trump spat out Christians in that weird way he says things. I can't understand how they believe him when he says "I'm a Christian."
Exactly. And in that same speech he blurted out “I’m not a Christian but…”. He’ll call it a mistake but yeah nah. That guy will always blab out the real story if you listen carefully enough - much like watching him squirm while getting interviewed about releasing the Epstein files. Pretty obvious he’s got something to hide there.