My favorite thing about the people yelling "I HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH" is that they always forget, that other people have the freedom to tell them to shut the fuck up. The "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" people also only make that pterodactyl scream when they say bluntly racist/sexist/homophobic things. It's not about freedom of speech, it's a cheap card to get away with being an awful individual.
If I went home with someone and saw that shelf in their house I would immediately grab my things, dodge the spiked drink he'd be trying to offer me, and leave.
I described his backdrop to my wife last night as "performative dude-ness" and then I was like, "wait, did he actually have the word 'Bloke' up there?" and sure enough I checked again, and yes.
Yeah I think the private email he sent the to lady who complained about him, speaks volumes about him and his lack of understanding of other people’s beliefs, feelings, only his “Freedom of Speech” matters.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he is deliberately trying to be offensive in the hope of some free media coverage.
Sometimes, I try to ruminate on all of the terrible punch down humor I've laughed at, I'm 46 so it's probably a considerable amount. I've laughed at stuff that was clearly punching at me (a woman and a single one at that) and to a broader extent, at my "people" (as a woman of Puerto Rican descent, although I'm white so I'm also incredibly privileged). There is still a heavy burden that women carry of making sure that we are not threatening the humor of the men around us by being a feminist killjoy and pointing out how damaging their humor can be for those of us who aren't white men. I realize it started very young for me, specifically with The Honeymooners. If you aren't familiar, The Honeymooners started out as a sketch on Jacki Gleeason's variety show that was so successful, it made was made into its own show. It was rather revolutionary for the time for portraying a working class couple (Ralph and Alice Kramden) that had been married for a considerable amount of time and had no children. Of course they were portrayed as a loving couple who were very happy with one another but....every single episode had Ralph threatening his wife with physical violence. "One of these days, Alice! Bang! Zoom! Right in the kisser!" was a common refrain. Every. Single. Episode. My father was a huge fan, the show was run every night at eleven at night, despite there being on 39 episodes and him knowing the plots to all of them, he watched it religiously. When I was old enough to realize that he was threatening his wife with physical violence, I asked my father why this was funny. He said it was because the audience knew that the violence was never actually going to occur. I wanted to know how they could be sure of that and he said "because it's a joke". I suppose I accepted the answer but in the back of my mind I wondered how it could be funny when it was clear that if Ralph did decide to hurt his wife, there was little she could do to fight back, he was a lot bigger than she was and after all, they were madly in love.
I'm not saying that The Honeymooners should be canceled although I'm grateful that comedy has evolved to be less lazy and reliant on recurring gags but that I learned early on that women just had to put up with certain humor because "it's a joke" which eventually becomes a pernicious way to allow hate speech to flourish. Jokes still have to be funny and what you allow as funny shapes a culture. I don't watch The Honeymooners anymore either. Neither does my father.
Bentia - as always, a thoughtful and self-reflecting post. Thanks for this, and I am now infinitely curious about The Honeymooners. Isn't it funny what informs your humour when you're a kid. For me, Married with Children was the height of comedy - an American sitcom - but hoo boy, that was some questionable stuff.
The Honeymooners is iconic in American television history. There is no discussion about the roots of television here without a mention of The Honeymooners, it helped to invent the standard sitcom format and cemented Jackie Gleason as one of the first stars of television. A lot of it still stands up, I have to give credit to the character of Alice Kramden in that she was NEVER portrayed as less than her husband. She gave as good as she got and Audrey Meadows was as much of a comic force as Gleason was. Every single sitcom wife on tv is in some way, beholden to her and the way she portrayed Alice. I'm sure, like everything else, as the years go on, it will only be revered by television nerds but it certainly earned its place as Early American TV Royalty. It clearly inspired The Flintstones so much so that even though The Honeymooners was in black and white, Wilma was made a redhead because Meadows was a redhead. So it's important but it's also of its time and unless you are really into tv history or a real sitcom nerd, I don't know that I would recommend watching it.
One of my favorite Jackie Gleason stories is one where he when returned to tv with an awful game show called "You're In the Picture", he came on the following week and actually apologized to the audience and said that the show would no longer continue.
I am a fan of comedians like Jimmy Carr and Ricky Gervais, and I also think that "Cancel Culture" is a big problem in today's society. But it takes a lot of skill to be funny while navigating taboo subjects, and that's where skilled, intelligent comedians can shine, while others will fall flat on their face. For Isaac's joke to be funny, you need to not only be prepared to laugh at a sensitive topic, but you also need to believe a racist stereotype that all Muslims are taxi drivers. It's simply not a funny joke, and ends up being doubly-offensive by making a racist joke about a terrible tragedy that occurred because of racism.
There have been many cases where I believe that cancel culture has wrongly led to someone disproportionately punished relative to their 'crime', but not in this case.
Stuart, I think I am pretty much with you here. Cancel culture is pretty complex and has become way oversimplified - there is a lot of grey out there. I do think it is very good to know you can call someone out and people will listen, though. That hasn't always happened. But yeah - the basic thing here, too, is that it. just. isn't. funny.
I'm 100% willing to believe there is the potential for shocking and confronting jokes about the Christchurch Shooting to exist - but building them around very specifically trivialising the victims is a very very shitty way to approach it.
He made the victims the butt of his joke, and very deliberately built them up on the way to his (very trite) punchline. It was cruel and calculated.
Having the ability to tell a given joke isn't the same as an obligation to do so. He has free speech, and free will.
Everyone has their version of Comedy just because something doesn’t align with your delicate sensibility doesn’t mean everyone else shouldn’t be able to see it
I think he's someone that realised a long time ago that saying stuff like this gets you not only attention but also the eternal loyalty of a very specific subset of people who basically think they should be able to say and do whatever they want and have some level of nostalgia for a time when it was easier to make judgments about people based on things like race and gender. He has effectively no incentive to change as even if he suffers financial repercussions as a result of something he said, he'll have supporters giving him money for the same reason.
It's good to see a few advertisers dropping him on his YouTube channel - but yeah, his fans definitely empower him. No doubt. It sucks, and he loves it.
It’s also just...not funny. “Haha Muslim cab drivers haha the Holocaust.” I know humor is subjective but c’mon, dude, it’s 2020 and THAT’S the best material you can come up with? Eesh. (This is all in addition to this guy being an asshole.)
He's absolutely disgusting on so many levels, and frankly a danger to many of his young male followers. I've followed closely Clementine Fords harassment by him - which has been over a years worth of him suggesting to his mostly underage followers that she is a pedophile and requesting they send her private requests for sex/photos etc. Truly online bullying at it's worst.
People are not that impressionable he talks about people who are extremest and tries to push the boundaries is that not a good thing and if you don’t think so are you The full f**k quid mate
No need to censor your own insults here, mate. Write fuck out. Like this: You are an inarticulate, ignorant little prick who admires a bully who punches down. I would have engaged in civil discourse with you but from the comments you have made elsewhere on this page, I see you're not into that sort of thing. You clearly do not wish to listen or enter a debate where ideas are exchanged. Did you read AND understand all the comments here? Reading them is easy; understanding them is a tad more difficult and I fear above your level of comprehension. Meanwhile, get fucked.
I've thought a lot about this since you posted it, and more and more comes to mind.
Isaac Butterfield is the classic "Oh, I just play the devils advocate" kinda guy. A quick look at his instagram and a google search confirmed that theory. The problem with the devils advocate person, is that it is often a privileged guy, who ENJOYS it, because other peoples struggles have nothing to do with him. It takes up all the oxygen in the room and exhaust people who try to fight against injustice, but your man just wants to uphold the ~status quo~ which serves him. He has no interest in learning; frustration is the ultimate goal. It also removes all sense of responsibility because if called out on the insanity of enjoying other peoples struggle, you can always say it's a thought experiment or "triggered? ;-)" or "I'm just trying to see all sides of this". It's problematic on so many levels.
The reason why Butterfield doesn't see the bigger picture, is because he doesn't have to. He can turn off his phone and go on with his day, as if nothing has happened, because that is nearly the case; nothing has happened to him. He doesn't care, because he isn't the center of the suffering, and seeing other peoples perspective is just exhausting and irrelevant to him.
I really appreciate you telling him to get fucked, because I'm sure many people before you have done everything in their power to educate him. It isn't worth it. His empire is build on other peoples frustrations and suffering, he knows it, and he benefits from it. Anyone who doesn't agree with him is just a triggered, feminazi, sensitive, whatever, and it's such a dirty move, because it works every single time. Being called a snowflake is apparently worse than being called a racist/sexist/etc.
Thank you for your thoughts and actions David, I really appreciate it, because truth is, he'd probably rather listen to you, white guy with platform and fanbase, than any of the people he shits on. It's disheartening. Bravo sir 🤮🤮🤮
Such a tired move to complain about everyone being so easily offended 'these days'...kinda feels like maybe comedians like this just aren't as clever as they think. great comedians can make people laugh and feel uncomfortable at the same time without being hateful dickheads. Love how you just shut him down 💘
Free speech comes with consequences so the person who you are insulting is free to insult your hero, too; and vice-versa, of course. While we are on Free Speech, your grammar is shit. If you are going to be all about Free Speech, articulate your opinions, points of view and insults with correct grammar so that your intended audience can understand you without ambiguity. Without further ado, fuck you, too.
I’ve been wracking my brains trying to figure out exactly why I enjoy your blog posts so much, and I’ve finally figured it out. You somehow manage to distill my thoughts and feelings about a subject, and express them in a far more intelligent and articulate way than I ever could.
Your writing on the BLM moment reminded me of a poem I read a couple of years ago; In a Time of Peace by Ilya Kaminsky, I dug it up and reread it after reading your post.
a friend at school who I used to really enjoy talking to made a stupid and pretty cruel joke about the Christchurch terrorist attacks. he got reported and I didn't speak to him much again. after reading this, I wish I was able to say to him how awful a human being he was in that exact moment. but hardly anyone (neither parents or teacher or any adult in my life)older than me has ever taught me anything about how to sensibly straight up shut down someone speaking utter schnit. I can't do it well lol. can't even argue without crying :( should be put on our school spec
Tz - it's all good. It can be really hard to say something in the moment. But yeah, always remember it's your right too - and to speak your truth. But I get the stress levels. I feel the same way often!
Calling people on their shit is something that's hard to do. Especially in person. It's something I've only become more comfortable with in the last few years, and even then my first instinct is still usually just to sort of ignore things.
It doesn't help that some people seem to make a sport out of causing offense and trying to get a reaction just so they can start on some "well actually" rant about their free speech.
It turns out, being edgy and offensive for the sake of it actually isn't cool. Despite what some audiences might have you believe. How hard can it be, as a self-proclaimed comedian, to come up with jokes that have punchlines that are actually funny and *not* actively hurting other human beings? If you can't write a joke that meets that (very simple) criteria, can you even call yourself a comedian, or are you just a glorified bully?
Personally, the McElroy brothers are the epitome of comedy for me. They are absolutely hilarious, and they make a point not to punch down or make jokes at the expense of others. And guess what? They are still so fucking hilarious.
My favorite thing about the people yelling "I HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH" is that they always forget, that other people have the freedom to tell them to shut the fuck up. The "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" people also only make that pterodactyl scream when they say bluntly racist/sexist/homophobic things. It's not about freedom of speech, it's a cheap card to get away with being an awful individual.
You speak the truth.
Exactly, freedom of speech comes with consequences, one of those consequences is that other people might just tell you to fuck off.
If I went home with someone and saw that shelf in their house I would immediately grab my things, dodge the spiked drink he'd be trying to offer me, and leave.
I described his backdrop to my wife last night as "performative dude-ness" and then I was like, "wait, did he actually have the word 'Bloke' up there?" and sure enough I checked again, and yes.
A G R E E D. x100000
I'd never heard of this "comedian" before and now I wish I still had that ignorance.
He’s hilarious grow a spine
Yeah I think the private email he sent the to lady who complained about him, speaks volumes about him and his lack of understanding of other people’s beliefs, feelings, only his “Freedom of Speech” matters.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he is deliberately trying to be offensive in the hope of some free media coverage.
Lance - fair. What a weird type of PR to chase though, eh. Miserable.
Sometimes, I try to ruminate on all of the terrible punch down humor I've laughed at, I'm 46 so it's probably a considerable amount. I've laughed at stuff that was clearly punching at me (a woman and a single one at that) and to a broader extent, at my "people" (as a woman of Puerto Rican descent, although I'm white so I'm also incredibly privileged). There is still a heavy burden that women carry of making sure that we are not threatening the humor of the men around us by being a feminist killjoy and pointing out how damaging their humor can be for those of us who aren't white men. I realize it started very young for me, specifically with The Honeymooners. If you aren't familiar, The Honeymooners started out as a sketch on Jacki Gleeason's variety show that was so successful, it made was made into its own show. It was rather revolutionary for the time for portraying a working class couple (Ralph and Alice Kramden) that had been married for a considerable amount of time and had no children. Of course they were portrayed as a loving couple who were very happy with one another but....every single episode had Ralph threatening his wife with physical violence. "One of these days, Alice! Bang! Zoom! Right in the kisser!" was a common refrain. Every. Single. Episode. My father was a huge fan, the show was run every night at eleven at night, despite there being on 39 episodes and him knowing the plots to all of them, he watched it religiously. When I was old enough to realize that he was threatening his wife with physical violence, I asked my father why this was funny. He said it was because the audience knew that the violence was never actually going to occur. I wanted to know how they could be sure of that and he said "because it's a joke". I suppose I accepted the answer but in the back of my mind I wondered how it could be funny when it was clear that if Ralph did decide to hurt his wife, there was little she could do to fight back, he was a lot bigger than she was and after all, they were madly in love.
I'm not saying that The Honeymooners should be canceled although I'm grateful that comedy has evolved to be less lazy and reliant on recurring gags but that I learned early on that women just had to put up with certain humor because "it's a joke" which eventually becomes a pernicious way to allow hate speech to flourish. Jokes still have to be funny and what you allow as funny shapes a culture. I don't watch The Honeymooners anymore either. Neither does my father.
Bentia - as always, a thoughtful and self-reflecting post. Thanks for this, and I am now infinitely curious about The Honeymooners. Isn't it funny what informs your humour when you're a kid. For me, Married with Children was the height of comedy - an American sitcom - but hoo boy, that was some questionable stuff.
The Honeymooners is iconic in American television history. There is no discussion about the roots of television here without a mention of The Honeymooners, it helped to invent the standard sitcom format and cemented Jackie Gleason as one of the first stars of television. A lot of it still stands up, I have to give credit to the character of Alice Kramden in that she was NEVER portrayed as less than her husband. She gave as good as she got and Audrey Meadows was as much of a comic force as Gleason was. Every single sitcom wife on tv is in some way, beholden to her and the way she portrayed Alice. I'm sure, like everything else, as the years go on, it will only be revered by television nerds but it certainly earned its place as Early American TV Royalty. It clearly inspired The Flintstones so much so that even though The Honeymooners was in black and white, Wilma was made a redhead because Meadows was a redhead. So it's important but it's also of its time and unless you are really into tv history or a real sitcom nerd, I don't know that I would recommend watching it.
One of my favorite Jackie Gleason stories is one where he when returned to tv with an awful game show called "You're In the Picture", he came on the following week and actually apologized to the audience and said that the show would no longer continue.
I am a fan of comedians like Jimmy Carr and Ricky Gervais, and I also think that "Cancel Culture" is a big problem in today's society. But it takes a lot of skill to be funny while navigating taboo subjects, and that's where skilled, intelligent comedians can shine, while others will fall flat on their face. For Isaac's joke to be funny, you need to not only be prepared to laugh at a sensitive topic, but you also need to believe a racist stereotype that all Muslims are taxi drivers. It's simply not a funny joke, and ends up being doubly-offensive by making a racist joke about a terrible tragedy that occurred because of racism.
There have been many cases where I believe that cancel culture has wrongly led to someone disproportionately punished relative to their 'crime', but not in this case.
Stuart, I think I am pretty much with you here. Cancel culture is pretty complex and has become way oversimplified - there is a lot of grey out there. I do think it is very good to know you can call someone out and people will listen, though. That hasn't always happened. But yeah - the basic thing here, too, is that it. just. isn't. funny.
I'm 100% willing to believe there is the potential for shocking and confronting jokes about the Christchurch Shooting to exist - but building them around very specifically trivialising the victims is a very very shitty way to approach it.
He made the victims the butt of his joke, and very deliberately built them up on the way to his (very trite) punchline. It was cruel and calculated.
Having the ability to tell a given joke isn't the same as an obligation to do so. He has free speech, and free will.
Everyone has their version of Comedy just because something doesn’t align with your delicate sensibility doesn’t mean everyone else shouldn’t be able to see it
I think he's someone that realised a long time ago that saying stuff like this gets you not only attention but also the eternal loyalty of a very specific subset of people who basically think they should be able to say and do whatever they want and have some level of nostalgia for a time when it was easier to make judgments about people based on things like race and gender. He has effectively no incentive to change as even if he suffers financial repercussions as a result of something he said, he'll have supporters giving him money for the same reason.
It's good to see a few advertisers dropping him on his YouTube channel - but yeah, his fans definitely empower him. No doubt. It sucks, and he loves it.
It’s also just...not funny. “Haha Muslim cab drivers haha the Holocaust.” I know humor is subjective but c’mon, dude, it’s 2020 and THAT’S the best material you can come up with? Eesh. (This is all in addition to this guy being an asshole.)
Yeah, that’s the other thing eh - it’s just not funny
It is funny get a sense of humour you must be blander than frenchy in a strap on
He's absolutely disgusting on so many levels, and frankly a danger to many of his young male followers. I've followed closely Clementine Fords harassment by him - which has been over a years worth of him suggesting to his mostly underage followers that she is a pedophile and requesting they send her private requests for sex/photos etc. Truly online bullying at it's worst.
Jesus — I didn’t even know he’d gone there. What a giant, giant dork.
Yes he's an absolute toilet of a person
*flush*
People are not that impressionable he talks about people who are extremest and tries to push the boundaries is that not a good thing and if you don’t think so are you The full f**k quid mate
No need to censor your own insults here, mate. Write fuck out. Like this: You are an inarticulate, ignorant little prick who admires a bully who punches down. I would have engaged in civil discourse with you but from the comments you have made elsewhere on this page, I see you're not into that sort of thing. You clearly do not wish to listen or enter a debate where ideas are exchanged. Did you read AND understand all the comments here? Reading them is easy; understanding them is a tad more difficult and I fear above your level of comprehension. Meanwhile, get fucked.
Comedian Is offensive and punching down woke comedy is not funny also I censored the swears But I thought they were gonna take it down
I've thought a lot about this since you posted it, and more and more comes to mind.
Isaac Butterfield is the classic "Oh, I just play the devils advocate" kinda guy. A quick look at his instagram and a google search confirmed that theory. The problem with the devils advocate person, is that it is often a privileged guy, who ENJOYS it, because other peoples struggles have nothing to do with him. It takes up all the oxygen in the room and exhaust people who try to fight against injustice, but your man just wants to uphold the ~status quo~ which serves him. He has no interest in learning; frustration is the ultimate goal. It also removes all sense of responsibility because if called out on the insanity of enjoying other peoples struggle, you can always say it's a thought experiment or "triggered? ;-)" or "I'm just trying to see all sides of this". It's problematic on so many levels.
The reason why Butterfield doesn't see the bigger picture, is because he doesn't have to. He can turn off his phone and go on with his day, as if nothing has happened, because that is nearly the case; nothing has happened to him. He doesn't care, because he isn't the center of the suffering, and seeing other peoples perspective is just exhausting and irrelevant to him.
I really appreciate you telling him to get fucked, because I'm sure many people before you have done everything in their power to educate him. It isn't worth it. His empire is build on other peoples frustrations and suffering, he knows it, and he benefits from it. Anyone who doesn't agree with him is just a triggered, feminazi, sensitive, whatever, and it's such a dirty move, because it works every single time. Being called a snowflake is apparently worse than being called a racist/sexist/etc.
Thank you for your thoughts and actions David, I really appreciate it, because truth is, he'd probably rather listen to you, white guy with platform and fanbase, than any of the people he shits on. It's disheartening. Bravo sir 🤮🤮🤮
This post is deserving of serious, productive discourse, but it can also be summed up pretty simply: Neckbeard.
You're.... kinda right here, huh. Hate to stereotype, but
Such a tired move to complain about everyone being so easily offended 'these days'...kinda feels like maybe comedians like this just aren't as clever as they think. great comedians can make people laugh and feel uncomfortable at the same time without being hateful dickheads. Love how you just shut him down 💘
You're right - this kind of comedy is, at its core, just so DUMB. Also - thanks. Thanks for coming along with me on this Webworm thing.
What a scumbag
F u just because your to sensitive and this offends you he is suddenly the worst person on earth like hitters reincarnate
Free speech comes with consequences so the person who you are insulting is free to insult your hero, too; and vice-versa, of course. While we are on Free Speech, your grammar is shit. If you are going to be all about Free Speech, articulate your opinions, points of view and insults with correct grammar so that your intended audience can understand you without ambiguity. Without further ado, fuck you, too.
I’ve been wracking my brains trying to figure out exactly why I enjoy your blog posts so much, and I’ve finally figured it out. You somehow manage to distill my thoughts and feelings about a subject, and express them in a far more intelligent and articulate way than I ever could.
Thanks Carley, that’s kind. Trying, and still learning, too.
Your writing on the BLM moment reminded me of a poem I read a couple of years ago; In a Time of Peace by Ilya Kaminsky, I dug it up and reread it after reading your post.
a friend at school who I used to really enjoy talking to made a stupid and pretty cruel joke about the Christchurch terrorist attacks. he got reported and I didn't speak to him much again. after reading this, I wish I was able to say to him how awful a human being he was in that exact moment. but hardly anyone (neither parents or teacher or any adult in my life)older than me has ever taught me anything about how to sensibly straight up shut down someone speaking utter schnit. I can't do it well lol. can't even argue without crying :( should be put on our school spec
Tz - it's all good. It can be really hard to say something in the moment. But yeah, always remember it's your right too - and to speak your truth. But I get the stress levels. I feel the same way often!
Calling people on their shit is something that's hard to do. Especially in person. It's something I've only become more comfortable with in the last few years, and even then my first instinct is still usually just to sort of ignore things.
It doesn't help that some people seem to make a sport out of causing offense and trying to get a reaction just so they can start on some "well actually" rant about their free speech.
It turns out, being edgy and offensive for the sake of it actually isn't cool. Despite what some audiences might have you believe. How hard can it be, as a self-proclaimed comedian, to come up with jokes that have punchlines that are actually funny and *not* actively hurting other human beings? If you can't write a joke that meets that (very simple) criteria, can you even call yourself a comedian, or are you just a glorified bully?
Personally, the McElroy brothers are the epitome of comedy for me. They are absolutely hilarious, and they make a point not to punch down or make jokes at the expense of others. And guess what? They are still so fucking hilarious.
I think his comedy is just super old-world. Things are changing. This is a throwback to a much lamer, dumber time.