I should be appalled, I suppose. But it's hard to be surprised by the actions of these groups anymore. Of course, they were going to threaten health professionals with imaginary legal action... it's their modus operandi. Masking their bigotry behind a patina of legal probity.
I mean, a snake is always going to slither.
What I am encouraged by is Te Whatu Ora's response. They have shown us all what authentic leadership looks like in an environment and time where compassionate leadership is sorely lacking.
Thank you, Te Whatu Ora, for showing others the way, and thank you, David, for bringing it into the open
oh this is revolting, abusive, intimidating behaviour and it doesn't belong here, in NZ. All credit to Te Whatu Ora/Health NZ for standing behind the health professionals being threatened in such an unprofessional, bullying manner.
I’m the Mum of an incredibly brave, beautiful 17 year old Transgender woman. A person who at 4 years of age said to me, Mummy, one day I’m going to evolve to be a girl. Who at 11 years old decided the boys Year 7 uniform didn’t suit her energy and so wore the girls version. A young woman who went to her psychology appointment herself, impressing them with her poise and confidence. This despite having had a severe knock back by a previous psychologist through CAHMS who incorrectly deemed her not ready to transition, despite not listening to her at any appointments, talking rather, about himself. My beautiful girl who has starved and cut her body in the hopes of lessening her pain and turmoil. A student who leave school with 26 credits in year 11, due to severe anxiety, then went on to achieve a YooBee certificate in digital arts, despite her Dad dying suddenly half way through. My girl, who is now on blockers and hormones, and back doing year 13, confident and finally, herself. My 1300 strong supportive parenting group will not let these people speak for us, or our children.
HELL YEAH. Congrats to you and your daughter on being absolute QUEENS.
Also: I love "I’m going to evolve to be a girl" - strong and beautiful Pokemon vibes, which are brilliant, especially since it's the franchise that gave us Goldeen to Seaking, which should definitely be considered the first trans Pokemon imo.
Oh that's so interesting! RNZ is always calling on her for the panel or for comment on political stories. I knew she was a Nat stooge but not that she was Ogilvie.
It would seem that Destiny's new approach is to use whatever means of intimidation and bullying they can get away with. Sadly the climate in the US is a factor as it has emboldened them to see how far they can push people around. It is extremely ugly behavior. I really feel for the people who received this letter because even if it is trumped up bullshit it's never pleasant being threatened.
This past weekend Mr Brian T of destiny threatened me by naming me personally in one of his posts. It doesn't feel great knowing that members of his cult know my name, my workplace, and can probably track down where I live. The intimidation is real...but we cannot let this bullying go unchallenged!
Franks was on RNZ's The Panel last Tuesday spouting some outrageous shite about Māori businesses, following the inquiry around election/census data misuse.
Legal threats have been waved at so many civil and human rights activists and policy makers in history. Threatening doctors is low but not surprising from that mob.
People unfamiliar with Stephen Franks and his Wellington law firm Franks Ogilvie may be unaware of their history. They're the nest from which groups such as the so-called Taxpayers Union NZ and Free Speech Union have emerged. Franks hired Jordan Williams as a new lawyer and supported him to do Taxpayers Union work from that base.
Franks is connected to Hobsons' Pledge and have represented them in their goal of opposing a bicultural Aotearoa New Zealand. They appear more keen on property rights and tobacco sales, not so much on collective or human or civil rights.
Stephen Franks has been an ACT MP and a National Party candidate. While an MP he opposed human rights initiatives for LGBTQ+ people too. He and others in his close libertarian circle are used to using legal threats in other areas too, like involvement with the "Water Users Group" to oppose Labour's Three Waters policies.
I'm in the Tāmaki electorate. Simon O'Connor was my MP and now it's Brooke van Velden. Today Brooke had a local coffee meet and greet. I gathered all my spoons and my big girl pants and went to talk to her about Destiny Church. She's the minister in charge of charities. I asked her if she was going to remove their charity status. She reckoned she didn't know anything about the movement to remove their charity status and that the emails sent to her must be on her desk (let alone the petitions with 100,000+ signatures and TV news items etc). Anyway, I tried. She was open to it but likely insincere. I don't think she remembered our last meeting on my doorstep when she was campaigning pre-election. She had just said a bunch of crap about the posie parker protest on tv. I had been at the protest and knew she was full of shit and let her know how wrong she was. You don't fuck around with the trans community because you can cost lives and risk their safety when you do.
Just wondering whether those healthcare workers include the same people giving them their Viagra and testosterone since that's gender affirming care too. Or is gender affirming care cool when it's done on cis-men??
What about circumcision too??? I don't know whether the NZ is the same as us in the UK (who don't really do it unless necessary or religious) or US but but I know Americans seem to love it and surely that counts as gender affirming care too?? Considering most that do it in the US just do it for looks and lack of wanting to teach men to wash properly
Gender affirming care has to have the consent of the patient, otherwise it's just sex-based physical abuse imo. Affirmation comes from affirming the person's identity, and it's hard to have one when you're still a baby.
We can have the discussion about whether it's genital mutilation or not all day long (it is imo too) but I think it would still count as gender affirming care. Considering a lot of that type of care is decided by parents for children who have no clue what's going on. It's surgery to affirm their manliness (in their eyes not mine) which is why I'm putting it in that category. And then men get it as adults for cosmetic reasons too.
(We have to take ourselves out of the GM part of the conversation. And think like the people who get this surgery done on their infants for non-religious reasons (my family despite being genetically Jewish do not practice the faith anymore, we're the second or third non practicing (Europe + Jew = Bad) and find this custom barbaric so I feel a little able to speak on that part) but even then I'm obvs still against it.
The law firm Franks Ogilvie is acting on behalf of a group calling itself Inflection Point. It included Brian Tamaki of Destiny Church as one of its speakers at an anti-trans event described by The Spinoff as reeking with stench.
The Inflection Point group seems to have other supporters like Jim Grenon, previously from Canada who took $68M from his hedge fund and moved to New Zealand where he set up a right wing media outlet for his views. Grenon was present at the trans allies protest opposite the Inflection Point event for some time, trying to photograph people and get quotes. He was asked to leave for overly intrusive and hostile stance. He retreated to the Inflection Point event.
I won't link to The Centrist but you can find it if you're interested. Here's more about characters like Jim.
Well that tracks..... this fucking guy..... Frank Ogilvie / Stephen Frank's also works for the anti-trans group "speak up for women" (who sent me scary letters / legal bullying / actioned lawsuit threats to ultimately drop) as well as him being all up in the Tax Payer Union and Free Speech Union.
Have to check with my board chair before I can do that as they supported me / I got indemintiy through my role./ contract (much like these health workers will have) so whilst it was all addressed and named to me personally, it was the charitable organisation that i lead that was at risk, not me personally as I was doing my job...!
I have a trans teens daughter. That being said, I currently am going through gender affirming care myself due to being 41 and going through perimenopause.
The wilful and chosen ignorance is astounding. It’s like on America where we can read between the lines of when certain people say DEI they mean Black.
It’s disgusting behaviour. It’s always the smallest loudest pricks in the room who cause the stir. Not to downplay it at all, because it’s very dangerous behaviour.
I should be appalled, I suppose. But it's hard to be surprised by the actions of these groups anymore. Of course, they were going to threaten health professionals with imaginary legal action... it's their modus operandi. Masking their bigotry behind a patina of legal probity.
I mean, a snake is always going to slither.
What I am encouraged by is Te Whatu Ora's response. They have shown us all what authentic leadership looks like in an environment and time where compassionate leadership is sorely lacking.
Thank you, Te Whatu Ora, for showing others the way, and thank you, David, for bringing it into the open
oh this is revolting, abusive, intimidating behaviour and it doesn't belong here, in NZ. All credit to Te Whatu Ora/Health NZ for standing behind the health professionals being threatened in such an unprofessional, bullying manner.
I’m the Mum of an incredibly brave, beautiful 17 year old Transgender woman. A person who at 4 years of age said to me, Mummy, one day I’m going to evolve to be a girl. Who at 11 years old decided the boys Year 7 uniform didn’t suit her energy and so wore the girls version. A young woman who went to her psychology appointment herself, impressing them with her poise and confidence. This despite having had a severe knock back by a previous psychologist through CAHMS who incorrectly deemed her not ready to transition, despite not listening to her at any appointments, talking rather, about himself. My beautiful girl who has starved and cut her body in the hopes of lessening her pain and turmoil. A student who leave school with 26 credits in year 11, due to severe anxiety, then went on to achieve a YooBee certificate in digital arts, despite her Dad dying suddenly half way through. My girl, who is now on blockers and hormones, and back doing year 13, confident and finally, herself. My 1300 strong supportive parenting group will not let these people speak for us, or our children.
HELL YEAH. Congrats to you and your daughter on being absolute QUEENS.
Also: I love "I’m going to evolve to be a girl" - strong and beautiful Pokemon vibes, which are brilliant, especially since it's the franchise that gave us Goldeen to Seaking, which should definitely be considered the first trans Pokemon imo.
Thank you. And yes! Definitely Pokémon vibes
As if working in healthcare isn’t hard enough right now 😒
Looking up Google Reviews for Franks Ogilvie, 1.8 Stars, most recent was 3 months ago.
Sounds like they were super shitty before this anyway.
And as someone who used to live the Tamaki electorate. Super glad Simon O'Connor is out (even it means that ACT is there instead 🤮🤮)
Hate to tell ya, but van Velden can be just as problematic to this cohort. Her comments last year regarding the Posie Parker protests were disgusting.
RNZ's favourite political commentator and National Party stalwart Bridget Morten is part of that law firm. I wonder if they will ask her about It?
Oh that's so interesting! RNZ is always calling on her for the panel or for comment on political stories. I knew she was a Nat stooge but not that she was Ogilvie.
It would seem that Destiny's new approach is to use whatever means of intimidation and bullying they can get away with. Sadly the climate in the US is a factor as it has emboldened them to see how far they can push people around. It is extremely ugly behavior. I really feel for the people who received this letter because even if it is trumped up bullshit it's never pleasant being threatened.
This past weekend Mr Brian T of destiny threatened me by naming me personally in one of his posts. It doesn't feel great knowing that members of his cult know my name, my workplace, and can probably track down where I live. The intimidation is real...but we cannot let this bullying go unchallenged!
I'm really sorry to hear this. That's a scary position to be in. Sending you lots of good vibes and anti-Destiny spells.
Such despicable conduct and shame on Franks Ogilvie for being willing to put such a letter on their letterhead
Franks was on RNZ's The Panel last Tuesday spouting some outrageous shite about Māori businesses, following the inquiry around election/census data misuse.
About 5min50secs in: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/2018975423/the-panel-with-stephen-franks-and-boopsie-maran-part-1
These a-holes keep getting platformed which keeps given them encouragement to keep spouting their b-shite.
Legal threats have been waved at so many civil and human rights activists and policy makers in history. Threatening doctors is low but not surprising from that mob.
People unfamiliar with Stephen Franks and his Wellington law firm Franks Ogilvie may be unaware of their history. They're the nest from which groups such as the so-called Taxpayers Union NZ and Free Speech Union have emerged. Franks hired Jordan Williams as a new lawyer and supported him to do Taxpayers Union work from that base.
Franks is connected to Hobsons' Pledge and have represented them in their goal of opposing a bicultural Aotearoa New Zealand. They appear more keen on property rights and tobacco sales, not so much on collective or human or civil rights.
Stephen Franks has been an ACT MP and a National Party candidate. While an MP he opposed human rights initiatives for LGBTQ+ people too. He and others in his close libertarian circle are used to using legal threats in other areas too, like involvement with the "Water Users Group" to oppose Labour's Three Waters policies.
https://www.astroturfing.nz/water-users-group/
I'm in the Tāmaki electorate. Simon O'Connor was my MP and now it's Brooke van Velden. Today Brooke had a local coffee meet and greet. I gathered all my spoons and my big girl pants and went to talk to her about Destiny Church. She's the minister in charge of charities. I asked her if she was going to remove their charity status. She reckoned she didn't know anything about the movement to remove their charity status and that the emails sent to her must be on her desk (let alone the petitions with 100,000+ signatures and TV news items etc). Anyway, I tried. She was open to it but likely insincere. I don't think she remembered our last meeting on my doorstep when she was campaigning pre-election. She had just said a bunch of crap about the posie parker protest on tv. I had been at the protest and knew she was full of shit and let her know how wrong she was. You don't fuck around with the trans community because you can cost lives and risk their safety when you do.
Good on you Victoria. I’m in her electorate too and didn’t realise she was minister for charities. What a lame excuse that she hadn’t heard about it.
It is lame eh? I'm heading a bit of discontent towards her recently. I'm hoping people will vote better next election.
From the conversations I overhear in the shops around here I’m not sure it’ll ever swing away from conservatives BUT we can live in hope.
Just wondering whether those healthcare workers include the same people giving them their Viagra and testosterone since that's gender affirming care too. Or is gender affirming care cool when it's done on cis-men??
(also cis women their boob jobs and hrt when they hit menopause)
And let's not forget gynecomastia. Somehow that doesn't count as "mutilation."
What about circumcision too??? I don't know whether the NZ is the same as us in the UK (who don't really do it unless necessary or religious) or US but but I know Americans seem to love it and surely that counts as gender affirming care too?? Considering most that do it in the US just do it for looks and lack of wanting to teach men to wash properly
Gender affirming care has to have the consent of the patient, otherwise it's just sex-based physical abuse imo. Affirmation comes from affirming the person's identity, and it's hard to have one when you're still a baby.
We can have the discussion about whether it's genital mutilation or not all day long (it is imo too) but I think it would still count as gender affirming care. Considering a lot of that type of care is decided by parents for children who have no clue what's going on. It's surgery to affirm their manliness (in their eyes not mine) which is why I'm putting it in that category. And then men get it as adults for cosmetic reasons too.
(We have to take ourselves out of the GM part of the conversation. And think like the people who get this surgery done on their infants for non-religious reasons (my family despite being genetically Jewish do not practice the faith anymore, we're the second or third non practicing (Europe + Jew = Bad) and find this custom barbaric so I feel a little able to speak on that part) but even then I'm obvs still against it.
The law firm Franks Ogilvie is acting on behalf of a group calling itself Inflection Point. It included Brian Tamaki of Destiny Church as one of its speakers at an anti-trans event described by The Spinoff as reeking with stench.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/22-05-2024/fear-hate-and-a-putrid-stench-inside-the-unsilenced-anti-trans-event
The Inflection Point group seems to have other supporters like Jim Grenon, previously from Canada who took $68M from his hedge fund and moved to New Zealand where he set up a right wing media outlet for his views. Grenon was present at the trans allies protest opposite the Inflection Point event for some time, trying to photograph people and get quotes. He was asked to leave for overly intrusive and hostile stance. He retreated to the Inflection Point event.
I won't link to The Centrist but you can find it if you're interested. Here's more about characters like Jim.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/499861/the-political-newcomers-spending-thousands-to-influence-the-election
Well that tracks..... this fucking guy..... Frank Ogilvie / Stephen Frank's also works for the anti-trans group "speak up for women" (who sent me scary letters / legal bullying / actioned lawsuit threats to ultimately drop) as well as him being all up in the Tax Payer Union and Free Speech Union.
Can you send this material to me, if you are comfortable? davidfarrier@protonmail.com
Have to check with my board chair before I can do that as they supported me / I got indemintiy through my role./ contract (much like these health workers will have) so whilst it was all addressed and named to me personally, it was the charitable organisation that i lead that was at risk, not me personally as I was doing my job...!
I have a trans teens daughter. That being said, I currently am going through gender affirming care myself due to being 41 and going through perimenopause.
The wilful and chosen ignorance is astounding. It’s like on America where we can read between the lines of when certain people say DEI they mean Black.
It’s disgusting behaviour. It’s always the smallest loudest pricks in the room who cause the stir. Not to downplay it at all, because it’s very dangerous behaviour.
RNZ's favourite political commentator and National Party stalwart Bridget Morten is part of that law firm. I wonder if they will ask her about It?
They also had Stephen Franks on the panel last week with Wallace Chapman...it was a jarring listen...