Last Saturday, we sat eating lunch at a popular Nelson (NZ) cafe as our freedom enabled us. We could hear rumblings from the church steps just around the corner... Apparently some protest for freedom with a side of anti vax stupidity. Yes, these crackpots were using the freedom we already have in Aotearoa to protest for freedom. I have no doubt they were the same people that I'd seen doing anti 1080 & anti 5G protests for a couple of years as the rants sounded the same.
Determined not to go look at the protest/let them falsely presume all onlookers supported them, we carried on with our meal (which we'd freely been able to order using our freedom).
The next thing, the protest subsides so they could all freely go about their day, that no doubt included hanging out freely and sipping an overpriced craft beer with this being Nelson and all. The next thing. I just about choked when three of the freedom protestors walked past the cafe wearing t-shirts sporting a bunch of syringes in the shape of swastikas. Disgusting humans. Of course they're free to wear these as we have freedom of expression in NZ. The shit eating smug grins they wore at our shocked faces made my blood boil. To top it off they were followed by a moron essentially cos playing as an oppressed Jew from the Warsaw ghetto in a jersey and that bore a material star of David. This idiot carried a sign proclaiming Covid was the biggest breach of freedom since 1939.
These people. This was during our Super Saturday vaccination day. A day where we still have the freedom to protest and act like insensitive morons without any fear of persecution and certainly with the freedom to protest without being shipped off to a concentration camp.
I know by the vax stats show that this awful anti vax nonsense doesn't represent the majority of people in my dear home town, but it left me feeling sick to my stomach and angry at their selfishness at spreading lies that could end up killing people all while spouting some bullshit comparison to Nazi Germany.
A bit of a rant today, but I've been thinking about this all week... Awfulness.
This is an interesting article. I am going to share it to whoever brings up Hitler when talking about Jacinda. As the person who alerted me to this article s ays - "The historical irony that sites around all the awful holocaust-trivialising anti-vaxxer Hitler references around the vaccine mandates is that Germany had a vaccine mandate against smallpox from 1874 onwards and the year after Hitler came to power (1934), the Nazi's repealed it in the eugenics-inspired belief that smallpox killing off the 'undesirable' and 'inferior' (i.e. the poor, the sick, Jewish) etc. would purify and strengthen the Aryan bloodline."
Yeah, I did the research that lead to that great article when I was debating someone who was making the sadly commonplace references to the rise of fascism in Germany and how unprecedented the current government overreach was and how it represented the start of a spiral down with NZ becoming a communist dictatorship under Jacinda Adern at the helm.
That argument is flawed on so many levels, the historical Nazi's being against vaccine mandates it just one of them.
Government vaccine mandates are actually not that unprecedented and have a long history in the human response to pandemics.
And we're well on our way to eradicating polio which was eradicated in developed countries around 1980 and 40 years later, we're making progress in developing countries too:
So vaccine mandates have not led democracies into becoming communist dictatorships in the past since the enabling legislation has always been tailored to the circumstances, just like it is now.
Just this weekend, I've been reading the final legislation for the mandatory vaccination order as well as the guidance documents from the ministry for health and disability workers since it covers psychotherapists and counsellors.
I read this just the other day and it's become my favourite thing. It's such delicious irony. The anti vaxxers are so quick to throw out the Nazi bullshit, and it's just immensely satisfying to know that they are actually far more in line with the Nazis than anyone else.
I work in a role that means I’m on the front lines for people to express displeasure about the actions of the association I work for. With regards to the vaccine mandates I had one caller scream at me about this being Nazi Germany all over again and in the same breath ‘it’s the Nuremberg trials all over again’. So ‘which one is it?’ I thought to myself.
This group of plague enthusiasts are today protesting around the country again, including at Nelson's Anzac Park. The sheer gall of it.
I'm sure they feel extremely inconvenienced during covid restrictions say compared to the soldiers in the first world war that the park is dedicated to.
There's been plenty of Jewish people who have critiqued the current nightmare as something that looks very Nazi. You're just not paying close enough attention or maybe you just don't want to see them, for whatever reasons.....
Whenever I read about these really privileged white people from the upper classes spreading covid disinformation and calling for their "freedoms" I can't help but think about my, and many other peoples, experiences of surviving on income support payments (welfare) and dealing with the MSD and WINZ. Your freedoms are structurally eroded, daily:
Income support payments are set at least 20% below the poverty line so you often can't afford to participate socially; when level four restrictions came into effect many of us long-term income support recipients just shrugged our shoulders because a lot of the time we have no money to go anywhere or see anyone, anyways.
I've also done a lot of income support advocacy and over 50% of people on income support payments are disabled and many cannot afford life-saving medications - Huhana Hickey has spoken out about this a lot. Meanwhile, privileged antivaxxers are refusing to have a free vaccine that might just save their and other people's lives and... wait... for... it... the lives of disabled immunocompromised people on income support payments who are living in abject poverty.
Who gives a fuck about poor people's human rights being trampled on though, right? I don't think Dave Dobbyn is ever going to tweet about that.
It's just been wild seeing such privileged people cry out about "freedom" when they have no idea what actual oppression looks like or what it feels like to have your human rights trampled on every single day by, for example, the MSD and caseworkers at WINZ.
Anyway, sorry for the rant and I hope folks can see the connections I'm trying to make here. As always thanks for your salient reporting David.
Yeah - I am so with you here. The fact is, so many of those with the loudest anti-vax voices have access to the best healthcare and the best systems so that if they did get Covid, chances are they'd push on through. It's all so, so incredibly selfish. Makes me want to poke my eyes out with a fork.
Exactly; they have health insurance and it's unlikely it's the basic plan it will be wrap-around private health care insurance with the best possible care. Stuff us plebs can truly only dream of as we use public health care that's dangerous underfunded and there was sewage/actual shit in the walls of Middlemore.
You make some excellent points. I’m lucky to not ever have been in that position so I wish more “privileged” people in Aotearoa could learn about alternate experiences. I also find it a bit shameful that the vaccine rollout hasn’t adequately considered and catered for people in circumstances where getting a jab is not easy or a priority. That is also a form of prejudice and ultimately racism.
Absolutely, people living rurally like in places such as Mitimiti it's been really hard to access the vaccine especially if you have to pick between gas money to get to a clinic and food for that week.
Supporting anyone dealing with WINZ or MSD is a nightmare. Those agencies run a masterclass in stripping Kiwis of their dignity. Then the same people are vilified in FB comment groups on the daily by people who've never had to beg for help to afford the basics in life. Your rant is justified, I'm feeling ranty today too.
I'm really well versed in the social security act and also I'll just start quoting articles from the Declaration of Human Rights when caseworkers wrongly deny people their entitlements. But, yes, everyday people are denied the basic necessities of life such as food which is a fundamental human right just like housing. But sure Dave, tell us again how hard done by you are. Christ.
The most ridiculous interaction I had there was supporting someone who had to prove annually they still had an incurable disease (or else they've had their benefit cut off) . Usually happened 10 days before Xmas.
usually, WINZ caseworkers force people to prove they have lost a limb or have a lifelong illness, or even cancer, every 3 months. Annually WINZ being "kind". But yeah, once again these over-privileged fuckwit antivaxxers have no idea what actual oppression and marginalization looks like, huh?
Jacinda, Grant and Christ were all part of the same socialist group, I can't remember the name. But I agree with you the idea that they're actually communist (whatever that may mean) when they're actively colluding with the world's elites (i.e. Klaus Schwab) is a joke.
She's not even pretty. And down to 15% in the polls. Why do you think that is?
As always, your writing resonates as does AJ Hendry’s quote. Having been born in Iran and having lived there for the first ten years of my life, I have first hand experience of true dictatorship and I am triggered by people’s posts that call NZ government a dictatorship and compare it to The holocaust and apartheid. They’re complaining about being asked to vaccinate to these horrendous historical events reflects their privilege of having never experienced such terror. Thank you for talking sense David!!!
All good Maza. AJ is doing such good writing and can be more measured than I can. Your background must make your blood boil when you hear all this shit.
Sadly throughout the last three months I’ve experienced a growing divide with people I considered friends who have disappeared further and further down the conspiracy rabbit hole. What’s worse is that one of them actually has a pretty decent sized platform on Instagram with 75k followers. She’s one of the more insidious kind who think “we shouldn’t judge anyone, vaccinated or not. We need love and unity, not division.” While simultaneously sharing conspiracy posts about vaccine “injuries” and “deaths.”
After sitting idly by wondering wtf to do I finally snapped and responded to one of her biggest BS-filled posts.
In my view, choosing not to be vaccinated when you can be is like getting shit-faced and getting into your car, hooning down the motorway in rush hour.
While it’s true you might not hurt anyone else, chances are you will and most likely kill someone.
This is not the same as choosing whether to eat meat or not. These people cannot comprehend how vaccines work and how fucking LUCKY we are to even have them available to us.
This plague of ignorance and lack of critical thinking is the other pandemic which I feel sadly highlights the gaps in our education system and the mistrust of government.
Exactly. People already have FREEDOM of *action* here - what they want is FREEDOM from *consequences*.
Going straight to the language of fascism and bullying does have the implication that all applications of state power are suspect – that there cannot be benevolent ‘good’ authority. Is this a situation where the state is justified in placing restrictions on individual liberty? From my perspective, if preventing avoidable deaths isn’t grounds, then what is?
The government is not coercing individuals to be forcibly vaccinated against their will. People have freedom to choose not to be. However, that choice will come with consequences. One of those will be a restriction on community-enjoyed freedoms – and that may include the freedom to go certain places and work in certain roles - including mine which is being a psychotherapist.
The idea that such limitations are inconsistent with democracy is flawed – it privileges the individual at the expense of the collective. Democratic rights come with responsibilities. If I want to benefit from belonging to the collective (claiming my rights), I can’t insist on being allowed to harm parts of it (abrogating my responsibilities). Yet, people will continue to claim that government decisions they don't agree with are fascism, regardless of the fact that the majority of Kiwi's support them.
Tolerance is not a moral absolute – it is a peace treaty. We respect each other’s opinions though we may disagree and live side-by-side without harming each other. The issue here is that the virus does not respect our philosophical boundary between different minds. It will exploit it and impose deadly consequences on the other. I don’t believe it is moral to invoke 'tolerance' as a shield i.e. freedom from consequences whilst imposing avoidable harmful consequences on the other.
The thing about your friend with 75k followers? That message will have been so popular, and they would have felt it. So they'll keep going. Social media is the pits, huh.
The claimed efficacy of the vaccines is based on trials the vaccine companies did. Naturally they excluded the adverse events including at least one death and then claimed a high efficacy (as you would by excluding those damaged by your vaccines).
Pharmaceutical companies are trash.
Anyway here's somebody better than I on the topic.
David, I have no idea how you can keep your sanity while reporting on this awful smelly, poisonous witches brew. I was not game to watch any of the videos. Thank goodness that you are safely out of their reach in the home of conspiracy theorists, the USA. Stay safe and thank goodness we have you armed with some amazing courage to write about this stuff.
Thanks. A lot of gross stuff littering all my DMs and my fairly public email address. Some of it a little scary. And some of it clearly from people with mental health issues. A lot of tricky issues combining into a messy soup.
I keep sane by going on lots of walks - and patting lots of cats and dogs. That's my secret.
On another issues, I had a toehole in the alternative healing/wellness community for a while. I have watched people I used to do things with go completely out the gate with this stuff. It grieves me that I am no longer welcome there. They believe that because I have been vaccinated I will shed covid on them (or vaccine on them, depends who you read). This makes me spiritually dangerous in their view, because the vaccine harms us spiritually. This is a loss for me personally, but it is minor compared with a long and slightly heated lecture I got from my son in law, who is on the very far right in the post gamergate/Ben Shapiro/Pewdiepie/Lauren Southern mould. Behind a plethora of facts about the vaccine which he believes are being covered up, is language about concentration camps and government tyranny and second class citizens. Behind that is the actual far right. I don't like anyone talking in initial capitals. You know what I mean, like Burdened With Glorious Destiny. This is what he sounded like when he was talking about fighting for freedom, I mean Fighting For Freedom. I actually don't care much about the vaccine, I was happy to get it. But it is becoming a casus belli for the actual far right. This is scary and heartbreaking. I have lost my daughter and son in law and grandchildren to this. I hope this is safe here to post about this but I am past caring.
Karen - I'm really sorry to hear about the ruptures in your spiritual community and your family with this. It's totally safe to say that here where you're among friends.
I'm so sorry, Karen. Often I think we imagine it being older, less internet savvy people going down the rabbit hole, but it's kids and stuff too. A lot of gross ideas spread like a virus thanks to the internet, and its can be pretty hard to inoculate for that.
My daughter and her husband went down the whole far right pipeline over a period of about 8 years; the anti vax thing is just the visible bit. I have read a bit about how to talk to fascists but i am unable to do it in practice.
I've been following the fallout from the mandate for teachers. It's disappointing, but not surprising, that people who've been exploiting the herd immunity provided by the rest of us all this time remain unwilling to contribute to public health by staying home, given they won't vaccinate.
They just don't seem to accept that we've only been able to tolerate them in our midst because their threat was largely academic/hypothetical, seeing as no diseases were circulating (no gratitude from them for this, btw, none). Now that shit's gotten real, and they need to step up, it seems they've never understood that was part of the deal. Even though it's always been the case of there's a measles outbreak in a school, that the non-immune stay home until it's over.
Worse, they now play victim, and use words like "discriminated against", "bullying", "shunning", "exclusion", when it's actually more like "asked to contribute", "self-imposed lockdown". In not sure what they want - would they actually still want to go to schools/ECEs and pose an infection risk to the other families there? Would they say least wear a mask? Doubt it.
And I have seen many adults bending over backwards to accommodate the feelings of
those people who arguably don't care about them to nearly the same degree.
I have yet to see any antivaxxer say "Come on, guys, if we're not going to vaccinate, then we have to protect our friends and family by staying away from other people, it's only fair."
It’s not just the teaching profession but across all health workers e.g. midwives, nurses, counsellors, and psychotherapists.
It’s been observed before with anti-vaccine stances that vaccines are victims of their own success. Few people alive have first hand experience of the ravages of polio and smallpox, two horrific diseases that we successfully eradicated through vaccines.
So I think you’re spot on that it’s the same with COVID in NZ because of our successful (up till now) control measures. Few people know of anyone who has had COVID, let alone died from it. Yet, we’ve all head of the very minor vaccine side-effects (a sore shoulder for a day in my families case).
Maybe this will change once Delta spreads seeking out the unvaccinated with deadly consequences. Sadly, for many it will be too late and they will be asking for the vaccine from their ICU bed as has happened repeatedly in the US.
Not Dave! I find myself yelling at my phone. But why not? He's a privileged white person used to doing what he wants and not having to sacrifice anything for others, so why not Dave? The squidgy, gelatinous filthy irony of thinking your pain is comperable to that of a holocaust victim because you can't hang out with your friends and having the freedom to say that, without a government official shooting you.
This is how these anti-vaxxers' privilege works. Their pain is the most important, the most centred the most intense and everyone must make way for it as people have, their whole lives for anything they deem important.
If only cutting ties was an option. But these are the people who we most need to bring into the fold because that's how herd immunity works. I fear it is only when they are personally affected that they will begin to understand. And by then, it may be too late.
On the up side, the longer they hold out, the less likely we'll come out of lockdown while my kids can't be vaccinated. So, weirdly, they're doing me a favour.
I think the tweets I linked to in my piece were open to interpretation. And deleting his account didn’t help. It’s great to see he’s made a statement about it now.
I think it's great that he was forced to make a statement that he is vaccinated. There seem to be a lot of influential Christians that are trying to play it both sides, and who are probably secretly vaccinated, but promote all this convo that leads to their flock falling down the misinformation rabbit hole.
I also thought maybe the piece was a little harsh in its passing reference to Dave Dobbyn. He doesn't sound like he's suckered by conspiracies... just being an annoying devils advocate type/galaxy-brained aisle crosser, acting like those who support mandates need to be reminded that mandates necessarily entail an erosion of absolute freedoms, and not actually arriving at a balanced view
Well, that was a terrifying read, but very necessary. These idiots all lack what makes human beings tolerable: self-awareness and empathy for others. Thanks for posting this, David. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Nazi Germany? Jab-rape? Have any of these people taken just thirty seconds and thought about how damn offensive they are?
We're looking at a bunch of privileged white people whining about their privilege being mildly impinged upon for community good. How damn screwed up is that? While we should be trying desperately to walk alongside every single person we can into a place where they can be jabbed, emotionally and physically, instead we have a bunch of white turds who have been baking in the sun of ridiculous ideology too long preaching division instead of community.
If you have the space, the time in your ridiculous schedule of writing, do you think you could write something on all the amazing community endeavours to get us over the line and beyond? Tina Ngata's vax van comes to mind, but there are many across the country and I think we need a balm after the hell of all this!
Dude, my dude. I’m not sure where you think you’ve landed or where you’ve come here from, but the only reason vax vans are offensive is because our communities had to fundraise for them. They are literally distributing, for free, life saving medication.
Take your shitty offensive comparisons and go away. No one is rounding up minorities and exterminating them en masse. Ngata’s vax van is taking a vaccine essential to preserve life to underserved communities. You’re seeing parallels where’d none exist.
I will renew my damn vax pass as often as I need to. As someone working in health care it is so damn important to keeping the whanau I work with safe.
2nd comment - we’re in Aotearoa. Not anywhere else. Not a place where we’re rounding up Jews, Roma, queers, and the disabled and putting them in gas chambers. Find some perspective.
3rd comment - firstly not related to the correct paragraph, secondly not even vaguely funny, thirdly, go off ya racist.
I allow that your last is in some ways correct. Thus I correct myself. Take your racist carcass off to fuckery, and leave it there, you waste of good air.
Jay I'd be a little more careful online if I was you. You never know who might sue you. And I'm not trying to cheapen anything, I'm trying to make sure that it never happens again.
One of my dear friends of 20+ years has just been lost to the rabbit hole - absolutely gutted. I was wondering where exactly she got the rhetoric she bombarded me with yesterday (21 messages in quick succession starting with "Cindy is a passive aggressive psychopath" after going incommunicado for a month). I can now see its directly from the Liz Gunn video. She posted a rant on her Facebook and is currently at 43 comments in support (all white and at LEAST financially comfortable). The single comment disagreeing is from someone in the UK where opening early has not gone well asking if they can have Jacinda if we don't want her. Sigh. I'm going to take myself off Facebook as I actually can't bear to watch this happening to friends.
And to agree with AJ Henry's quote - every one of the people I know on this trajectory are white, relatively well off, and have NEVER known true oppression in their lives. They're talking about fighting for their rights, protesting, wanting freedom. But in the next breath will talk about how Maori "just need to get over it". Honestly it makes me so angry. The level of ignorance is astounding.
Yep. I actually ended up commenting on her post to gently let her know that comparing the current situation to the holocaust and apartheid was offensive and divisive. Needless to say she doubled down and also told me I was ignorant and wilfully obtuse if I couldn't see the similarities (face palm). I bowed out at that point for my own sanity. 5 people quietly "liked" my response and one mutual friend private messaged me to say she agreed. So yes, very much echo chamber and its just so exhausting and depressing to try to fight it.
Interesting post from ‘wooanon warrior’ (great page by the way, run by an American nurse), claiming that ‘Whenever someone does come to my page spewing conspiracies and insults I always take a look at their page. I would say 9 times out of 10 there is a bible quote in their bio’. Why is AJ Writer the only Christian on this planet that seems to have his shit together?? But, sadly it’s no longer just the happy clappers. It’s like the zombie apocalypse has taken over. On a positive note, Australia’s anti-vaxxers seem a lot quieter now they’ve been ignored and vax rates have gone up.
That Facebook profile thing is so true. I always tell people to click through to see who is throwing the bullshit around. Bible verses, Trump, QAnon. It's cookie cutter stuff.
As for Dave - he's done an about turn on the language he was using which is GREAT. Will summarise this next newsletter.
I also think it’s interesting that at the same time that NZ is falling apart at the seams over a simple vaccine, a long awaited vaccine for malaria became available. It was incredible to watch the news and see how mothers 👏🏼Did 👏🏼 Not 👏🏼 Hesitate 👏🏼 to vaccinate their babies. They have watched their children be maimed and die for generations and when a vaccine finally became available it was a miracle for them. We are so fucking sheltered and privileged in this country.
On a side note - this webworm community is so fantastic, and helps me feel like there are still some sane people out there who are able to have calm, insightful, and rational discussions.
It's pretty good here, right? And I know we are our own echo chamber, too - but in saying that, people disagree and they are polite and we talk it out. And yes - the total nutbags are not here, which is nice.
Last Saturday, we sat eating lunch at a popular Nelson (NZ) cafe as our freedom enabled us. We could hear rumblings from the church steps just around the corner... Apparently some protest for freedom with a side of anti vax stupidity. Yes, these crackpots were using the freedom we already have in Aotearoa to protest for freedom. I have no doubt they were the same people that I'd seen doing anti 1080 & anti 5G protests for a couple of years as the rants sounded the same.
Determined not to go look at the protest/let them falsely presume all onlookers supported them, we carried on with our meal (which we'd freely been able to order using our freedom).
The next thing, the protest subsides so they could all freely go about their day, that no doubt included hanging out freely and sipping an overpriced craft beer with this being Nelson and all. The next thing. I just about choked when three of the freedom protestors walked past the cafe wearing t-shirts sporting a bunch of syringes in the shape of swastikas. Disgusting humans. Of course they're free to wear these as we have freedom of expression in NZ. The shit eating smug grins they wore at our shocked faces made my blood boil. To top it off they were followed by a moron essentially cos playing as an oppressed Jew from the Warsaw ghetto in a jersey and that bore a material star of David. This idiot carried a sign proclaiming Covid was the biggest breach of freedom since 1939.
These people. This was during our Super Saturday vaccination day. A day where we still have the freedom to protest and act like insensitive morons without any fear of persecution and certainly with the freedom to protest without being shipped off to a concentration camp.
I know by the vax stats show that this awful anti vax nonsense doesn't represent the majority of people in my dear home town, but it left me feeling sick to my stomach and angry at their selfishness at spreading lies that could end up killing people all while spouting some bullshit comparison to Nazi Germany.
A bit of a rant today, but I've been thinking about this all week... Awfulness.
This is an interesting article. I am going to share it to whoever brings up Hitler when talking about Jacinda. As the person who alerted me to this article s ays - "The historical irony that sites around all the awful holocaust-trivialising anti-vaxxer Hitler references around the vaccine mandates is that Germany had a vaccine mandate against smallpox from 1874 onwards and the year after Hitler came to power (1934), the Nazi's repealed it in the eugenics-inspired belief that smallpox killing off the 'undesirable' and 'inferior' (i.e. the poor, the sick, Jewish) etc. would purify and strengthen the Aryan bloodline."
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/09/vaccine-mandates-covid-pandemic-german-nazi-inoculation-policy
Going to include this in a future newsletter - thank you.
Yeah, I did the research that lead to that great article when I was debating someone who was making the sadly commonplace references to the rise of fascism in Germany and how unprecedented the current government overreach was and how it represented the start of a spiral down with NZ becoming a communist dictatorship under Jacinda Adern at the helm.
That argument is flawed on so many levels, the historical Nazi's being against vaccine mandates it just one of them.
Government vaccine mandates are actually not that unprecedented and have a long history in the human response to pandemics.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00267-1/f
ulltext
As a result of global smallpox vaccine mandates, smallpox was the first human disease to be successfully eradicated in human history in 1980.
https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html
And we're well on our way to eradicating polio which was eradicated in developed countries around 1980 and 40 years later, we're making progress in developing countries too:
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/why-it-matters/africa-kicks-out-wild-polio.htm
So vaccine mandates have not led democracies into becoming communist dictatorships in the past since the enabling legislation has always been tailored to the circumstances, just like it is now.
Just this weekend, I've been reading the final legislation for the mandatory vaccination order as well as the guidance documents from the ministry for health and disability workers since it covers psychotherapists and counsellors.
Oops - that Lancet link got mangled: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00267-1/fulltext
Paul..our contributions!! Thankyou.
I read this just the other day and it's become my favourite thing. It's such delicious irony. The anti vaxxers are so quick to throw out the Nazi bullshit, and it's just immensely satisfying to know that they are actually far more in line with the Nazis than anyone else.
*Chef's kiss*
Thanks for the link
I work in a role that means I’m on the front lines for people to express displeasure about the actions of the association I work for. With regards to the vaccine mandates I had one caller scream at me about this being Nazi Germany all over again and in the same breath ‘it’s the Nuremberg trials all over again’. So ‘which one is it?’ I thought to myself.
Kailee - your work in hugely appreciated. Keep on keeping sane, wise and biting your tongue.
How awful for you. I would have more sympathy if they were better behaved
Ikr! I’ve done a lot of biting of tongues over the last few weeks.
This! 👆👆👆
You sum it all up, Rachel. No-one is being locked up. Freedom is... pretty prevalent.
PS - also amazing these people are walking around with swastikas on their shirts. Totally normal. Totally.
This group of plague enthusiasts are today protesting around the country again, including at Nelson's Anzac Park. The sheer gall of it.
I'm sure they feel extremely inconvenienced during covid restrictions say compared to the soldiers in the first world war that the park is dedicated to.
Gaul?
They have the right to protest right?
It's so horrendous right? And coming from such a place of privilege. My friend was referring to "medical apartheid" and I just wanted to scream.
So privileged and selfish!
There's that white privilege again, eh
GROSS. *spew emoji*
Scream away Bex. They're right and you're wrong.
Rachel, your rant was beautifully expressed. Thank you.
The words fits! Thanks for the link.
Thanks for this.
There's been plenty of Jewish people who have critiqued the current nightmare as something that looks very Nazi. You're just not paying close enough attention or maybe you just don't want to see them, for whatever reasons.....
Whenever I read about these really privileged white people from the upper classes spreading covid disinformation and calling for their "freedoms" I can't help but think about my, and many other peoples, experiences of surviving on income support payments (welfare) and dealing with the MSD and WINZ. Your freedoms are structurally eroded, daily:
Income support payments are set at least 20% below the poverty line so you often can't afford to participate socially; when level four restrictions came into effect many of us long-term income support recipients just shrugged our shoulders because a lot of the time we have no money to go anywhere or see anyone, anyways.
I've also done a lot of income support advocacy and over 50% of people on income support payments are disabled and many cannot afford life-saving medications - Huhana Hickey has spoken out about this a lot. Meanwhile, privileged antivaxxers are refusing to have a free vaccine that might just save their and other people's lives and... wait... for... it... the lives of disabled immunocompromised people on income support payments who are living in abject poverty.
Regarding anti-vaxxers crying out about the government monitoring them because: QR codes. The MSD was found to have illegally and invasively spied on their clients (people on income support payments): https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/01-06-2019/being-a-welfare-recipient-has-cost-me-my-right-to-privacy/
Who gives a fuck about poor people's human rights being trampled on though, right? I don't think Dave Dobbyn is ever going to tweet about that.
It's just been wild seeing such privileged people cry out about "freedom" when they have no idea what actual oppression looks like or what it feels like to have your human rights trampled on every single day by, for example, the MSD and caseworkers at WINZ.
Anyway, sorry for the rant and I hope folks can see the connections I'm trying to make here. As always thanks for your salient reporting David.
Yeah - I am so with you here. The fact is, so many of those with the loudest anti-vax voices have access to the best healthcare and the best systems so that if they did get Covid, chances are they'd push on through. It's all so, so incredibly selfish. Makes me want to poke my eyes out with a fork.
PS I've locked the forks up, don't worry.
Exactly; they have health insurance and it's unlikely it's the basic plan it will be wrap-around private health care insurance with the best possible care. Stuff us plebs can truly only dream of as we use public health care that's dangerous underfunded and there was sewage/actual shit in the walls of Middlemore.
Maybe keep the forks for the antivaxxers. LOL X)
You make some excellent points. I’m lucky to not ever have been in that position so I wish more “privileged” people in Aotearoa could learn about alternate experiences. I also find it a bit shameful that the vaccine rollout hasn’t adequately considered and catered for people in circumstances where getting a jab is not easy or a priority. That is also a form of prejudice and ultimately racism.
Absolutely, people living rurally like in places such as Mitimiti it's been really hard to access the vaccine especially if you have to pick between gas money to get to a clinic and food for that week.
Supporting anyone dealing with WINZ or MSD is a nightmare. Those agencies run a masterclass in stripping Kiwis of their dignity. Then the same people are vilified in FB comment groups on the daily by people who've never had to beg for help to afford the basics in life. Your rant is justified, I'm feeling ranty today too.
I'm really well versed in the social security act and also I'll just start quoting articles from the Declaration of Human Rights when caseworkers wrongly deny people their entitlements. But, yes, everyday people are denied the basic necessities of life such as food which is a fundamental human right just like housing. But sure Dave, tell us again how hard done by you are. Christ.
The most ridiculous interaction I had there was supporting someone who had to prove annually they still had an incurable disease (or else they've had their benefit cut off) . Usually happened 10 days before Xmas.
This is so sickening, Rachel.
usually, WINZ caseworkers force people to prove they have lost a limb or have a lifelong illness, or even cancer, every 3 months. Annually WINZ being "kind". But yeah, once again these over-privileged fuckwit antivaxxers have no idea what actual oppression and marginalization looks like, huh?
Let's not even get started on the 'communism label'
Jacinda, Grant and Christ were all part of the same socialist group, I can't remember the name. But I agree with you the idea that they're actually communist (whatever that may mean) when they're actively colluding with the world's elites (i.e. Klaus Schwab) is a joke.
She's not even pretty. And down to 15% in the polls. Why do you think that is?
Chloe you're a privileged white person from the upper classes. Hypocritical much?
Still claiming that you're from a northern tribe? I don't think that the Northern Hemisphere counts.
As always, your writing resonates as does AJ Hendry’s quote. Having been born in Iran and having lived there for the first ten years of my life, I have first hand experience of true dictatorship and I am triggered by people’s posts that call NZ government a dictatorship and compare it to The holocaust and apartheid. They’re complaining about being asked to vaccinate to these horrendous historical events reflects their privilege of having never experienced such terror. Thank you for talking sense David!!!
All good Maza. AJ is doing such good writing and can be more measured than I can. Your background must make your blood boil when you hear all this shit.
Sadly throughout the last three months I’ve experienced a growing divide with people I considered friends who have disappeared further and further down the conspiracy rabbit hole. What’s worse is that one of them actually has a pretty decent sized platform on Instagram with 75k followers. She’s one of the more insidious kind who think “we shouldn’t judge anyone, vaccinated or not. We need love and unity, not division.” While simultaneously sharing conspiracy posts about vaccine “injuries” and “deaths.”
After sitting idly by wondering wtf to do I finally snapped and responded to one of her biggest BS-filled posts.
In my view, choosing not to be vaccinated when you can be is like getting shit-faced and getting into your car, hooning down the motorway in rush hour.
While it’s true you might not hurt anyone else, chances are you will and most likely kill someone.
This is not the same as choosing whether to eat meat or not. These people cannot comprehend how vaccines work and how fucking LUCKY we are to even have them available to us.
This plague of ignorance and lack of critical thinking is the other pandemic which I feel sadly highlights the gaps in our education system and the mistrust of government.
Exactly. People already have FREEDOM of *action* here - what they want is FREEDOM from *consequences*.
Going straight to the language of fascism and bullying does have the implication that all applications of state power are suspect – that there cannot be benevolent ‘good’ authority. Is this a situation where the state is justified in placing restrictions on individual liberty? From my perspective, if preventing avoidable deaths isn’t grounds, then what is?
The government is not coercing individuals to be forcibly vaccinated against their will. People have freedom to choose not to be. However, that choice will come with consequences. One of those will be a restriction on community-enjoyed freedoms – and that may include the freedom to go certain places and work in certain roles - including mine which is being a psychotherapist.
The idea that such limitations are inconsistent with democracy is flawed – it privileges the individual at the expense of the collective. Democratic rights come with responsibilities. If I want to benefit from belonging to the collective (claiming my rights), I can’t insist on being allowed to harm parts of it (abrogating my responsibilities). Yet, people will continue to claim that government decisions they don't agree with are fascism, regardless of the fact that the majority of Kiwi's support them.
Tolerance is not a moral absolute – it is a peace treaty. We respect each other’s opinions though we may disagree and live side-by-side without harming each other. The issue here is that the virus does not respect our philosophical boundary between different minds. It will exploit it and impose deadly consequences on the other. I don’t believe it is moral to invoke 'tolerance' as a shield i.e. freedom from consequences whilst imposing avoidable harmful consequences on the other.
The thing about your friend with 75k followers? That message will have been so popular, and they would have felt it. So they'll keep going. Social media is the pits, huh.
The claimed efficacy of the vaccines is based on trials the vaccine companies did. Naturally they excluded the adverse events including at least one death and then claimed a high efficacy (as you would by excluding those damaged by your vaccines).
Pharmaceutical companies are trash.
Anyway here's somebody better than I on the topic.
https://jessicar.substack.com/p/pfizer-adverse-event-data
David, I have no idea how you can keep your sanity while reporting on this awful smelly, poisonous witches brew. I was not game to watch any of the videos. Thank goodness that you are safely out of their reach in the home of conspiracy theorists, the USA. Stay safe and thank goodness we have you armed with some amazing courage to write about this stuff.
Thanks. A lot of gross stuff littering all my DMs and my fairly public email address. Some of it a little scary. And some of it clearly from people with mental health issues. A lot of tricky issues combining into a messy soup.
I keep sane by going on lots of walks - and patting lots of cats and dogs. That's my secret.
Thanks for being here and for reading.
On another issues, I had a toehole in the alternative healing/wellness community for a while. I have watched people I used to do things with go completely out the gate with this stuff. It grieves me that I am no longer welcome there. They believe that because I have been vaccinated I will shed covid on them (or vaccine on them, depends who you read). This makes me spiritually dangerous in their view, because the vaccine harms us spiritually. This is a loss for me personally, but it is minor compared with a long and slightly heated lecture I got from my son in law, who is on the very far right in the post gamergate/Ben Shapiro/Pewdiepie/Lauren Southern mould. Behind a plethora of facts about the vaccine which he believes are being covered up, is language about concentration camps and government tyranny and second class citizens. Behind that is the actual far right. I don't like anyone talking in initial capitals. You know what I mean, like Burdened With Glorious Destiny. This is what he sounded like when he was talking about fighting for freedom, I mean Fighting For Freedom. I actually don't care much about the vaccine, I was happy to get it. But it is becoming a casus belli for the actual far right. This is scary and heartbreaking. I have lost my daughter and son in law and grandchildren to this. I hope this is safe here to post about this but I am past caring.
Karen - I'm really sorry to hear about the ruptures in your spiritual community and your family with this. It's totally safe to say that here where you're among friends.
I'm so sorry, Karen. Often I think we imagine it being older, less internet savvy people going down the rabbit hole, but it's kids and stuff too. A lot of gross ideas spread like a virus thanks to the internet, and its can be pretty hard to inoculate for that.
My daughter and her husband went down the whole far right pipeline over a period of about 8 years; the anti vax thing is just the visible bit. I have read a bit about how to talk to fascists but i am unable to do it in practice.
I've been following the fallout from the mandate for teachers. It's disappointing, but not surprising, that people who've been exploiting the herd immunity provided by the rest of us all this time remain unwilling to contribute to public health by staying home, given they won't vaccinate.
They just don't seem to accept that we've only been able to tolerate them in our midst because their threat was largely academic/hypothetical, seeing as no diseases were circulating (no gratitude from them for this, btw, none). Now that shit's gotten real, and they need to step up, it seems they've never understood that was part of the deal. Even though it's always been the case of there's a measles outbreak in a school, that the non-immune stay home until it's over.
Worse, they now play victim, and use words like "discriminated against", "bullying", "shunning", "exclusion", when it's actually more like "asked to contribute", "self-imposed lockdown". In not sure what they want - would they actually still want to go to schools/ECEs and pose an infection risk to the other families there? Would they say least wear a mask? Doubt it.
And I have seen many adults bending over backwards to accommodate the feelings of
those people who arguably don't care about them to nearly the same degree.
I have yet to see any antivaxxer say "Come on, guys, if we're not going to vaccinate, then we have to protect our friends and family by staying away from other people, it's only fair."
It’s not just the teaching profession but across all health workers e.g. midwives, nurses, counsellors, and psychotherapists.
It’s been observed before with anti-vaccine stances that vaccines are victims of their own success. Few people alive have first hand experience of the ravages of polio and smallpox, two horrific diseases that we successfully eradicated through vaccines.
So I think you’re spot on that it’s the same with COVID in NZ because of our successful (up till now) control measures. Few people know of anyone who has had COVID, let alone died from it. Yet, we’ve all head of the very minor vaccine side-effects (a sore shoulder for a day in my families case).
Maybe this will change once Delta spreads seeking out the unvaccinated with deadly consequences. Sadly, for many it will be too late and they will be asking for the vaccine from their ICU bed as has happened repeatedly in the US.
Not Dave! I find myself yelling at my phone. But why not? He's a privileged white person used to doing what he wants and not having to sacrifice anything for others, so why not Dave? The squidgy, gelatinous filthy irony of thinking your pain is comperable to that of a holocaust victim because you can't hang out with your friends and having the freedom to say that, without a government official shooting you.
This is how these anti-vaxxers' privilege works. Their pain is the most important, the most centred the most intense and everyone must make way for it as people have, their whole lives for anything they deem important.
If only cutting ties was an option. But these are the people who we most need to bring into the fold because that's how herd immunity works. I fear it is only when they are personally affected that they will begin to understand. And by then, it may be too late.
On the up side, the longer they hold out, the less likely we'll come out of lockdown while my kids can't be vaccinated. So, weirdly, they're doing me a favour.
I think Dave has been misjudged. Covid-19 Delta outbreak: Sir Dave Dobbyn reveals vaccination views after Twitter controversy
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12481092
I think the tweets I linked to in my piece were open to interpretation. And deleting his account didn’t help. It’s great to see he’s made a statement about it now.
I think it's great that he was forced to make a statement that he is vaccinated. There seem to be a lot of influential Christians that are trying to play it both sides, and who are probably secretly vaccinated, but promote all this convo that leads to their flock falling down the misinformation rabbit hole.
He took the best possible step. I will bring attention to this in the next Webworm later this week.
A good step, sure, but he still doesn't get a pass.
Any privileged middle-aged white dude who uses terms like "fashionable neo-Marxism" to make a point should be ridiculed.
Yeah, thanks for having my back on this one!
That's the only type of Marxism. Especially these days.
Where's your pronouns?
I also thought maybe the piece was a little harsh in its passing reference to Dave Dobbyn. He doesn't sound like he's suckered by conspiracies... just being an annoying devils advocate type/galaxy-brained aisle crosser, acting like those who support mandates need to be reminded that mandates necessarily entail an erosion of absolute freedoms, and not actually arriving at a balanced view
Fair - and addressing this next newsletter
His image has been removed from the line-up now. Is it safe to listen to Loyal again? https://share.getcloudapp.com/Z4ur5gGY
I hope so!!, it’s our second national Anthem isn’t it?
Dave is double vaccinated, according to his facebook page this morning.
I was shocked at Dave too.
Yes to all of this!
Well said!
Well, that was a terrifying read, but very necessary. These idiots all lack what makes human beings tolerable: self-awareness and empathy for others. Thanks for posting this, David. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Agreed on the sunlight. Thanks, Jen.
Nazi Germany? Jab-rape? Have any of these people taken just thirty seconds and thought about how damn offensive they are?
We're looking at a bunch of privileged white people whining about their privilege being mildly impinged upon for community good. How damn screwed up is that? While we should be trying desperately to walk alongside every single person we can into a place where they can be jabbed, emotionally and physically, instead we have a bunch of white turds who have been baking in the sun of ridiculous ideology too long preaching division instead of community.
If you have the space, the time in your ridiculous schedule of writing, do you think you could write something on all the amazing community endeavours to get us over the line and beyond? Tina Ngata's vax van comes to mind, but there are many across the country and I think we need a balm after the hell of all this!
It's beyond offensive, and beyond stupid.
Vax vans are offensive. And if you can't see the parallels with Nazi Germany well then you must be blind.
And you do realize that your Gesundheitspaß will expire if you don't renew it every month or two right?
Dude, my dude. I’m not sure where you think you’ve landed or where you’ve come here from, but the only reason vax vans are offensive is because our communities had to fundraise for them. They are literally distributing, for free, life saving medication.
Take your shitty offensive comparisons and go away. No one is rounding up minorities and exterminating them en masse. Ngata’s vax van is taking a vaccine essential to preserve life to underserved communities. You’re seeing parallels where’d none exist.
I will renew my damn vax pass as often as I need to. As someone working in health care it is so damn important to keeping the whanau I work with safe.
In summary, go direct to hell.
First paragraph - over familiarisation.
2nd Paragraph - you're not paying attention. Refer Canada & NT.
3rd paragraph - funny that you said 'underserved'. Did you mean 'undeserved'?
Hell is an invention of Empire for means of control.
First comment - oh get over it
2nd comment - we’re in Aotearoa. Not anywhere else. Not a place where we’re rounding up Jews, Roma, queers, and the disabled and putting them in gas chambers. Find some perspective.
3rd comment - firstly not related to the correct paragraph, secondly not even vaguely funny, thirdly, go off ya racist.
I allow that your last is in some ways correct. Thus I correct myself. Take your racist carcass off to fuckery, and leave it there, you waste of good air.
Hmmm. "Calling me out" on Twitter aye?
https://twitter.com/jayfursdon/status/1488447920613785601?cxt=HHwWgoDU7ezfg6gpAAAA
Jay I'd be a little more careful online if I was you. You never know who might sue you. And I'm not trying to cheapen anything, I'm trying to make sure that it never happens again.
You know like "Never Again".
https://twitter.com/jayfursdon/status/1488457164956246018?cxt=HHwWhIDRyfj5h6gpAAAA
Yes it's 1939 not 1944.
I didn't say undeserved or underserved. I'm just noting your choice of words. Think of it is a peek into your Freudian slips.
And watch the libel.
Dude.
Don't worry Chloe should be in your emails about now saying "don't engage".
Have a nice day. Don't forget to take your booster toxins.
One of my dear friends of 20+ years has just been lost to the rabbit hole - absolutely gutted. I was wondering where exactly she got the rhetoric she bombarded me with yesterday (21 messages in quick succession starting with "Cindy is a passive aggressive psychopath" after going incommunicado for a month). I can now see its directly from the Liz Gunn video. She posted a rant on her Facebook and is currently at 43 comments in support (all white and at LEAST financially comfortable). The single comment disagreeing is from someone in the UK where opening early has not gone well asking if they can have Jacinda if we don't want her. Sigh. I'm going to take myself off Facebook as I actually can't bear to watch this happening to friends.
And to agree with AJ Henry's quote - every one of the people I know on this trajectory are white, relatively well off, and have NEVER known true oppression in their lives. They're talking about fighting for their rights, protesting, wanting freedom. But in the next breath will talk about how Maori "just need to get over it". Honestly it makes me so angry. The level of ignorance is astounding.
Echo. Chamber.
Yep. I actually ended up commenting on her post to gently let her know that comparing the current situation to the holocaust and apartheid was offensive and divisive. Needless to say she doubled down and also told me I was ignorant and wilfully obtuse if I couldn't see the similarities (face palm). I bowed out at that point for my own sanity. 5 people quietly "liked" my response and one mutual friend private messaged me to say she agreed. So yes, very much echo chamber and its just so exhausting and depressing to try to fight it.
Not Dave Dobbyn!!!
Interesting post from ‘wooanon warrior’ (great page by the way, run by an American nurse), claiming that ‘Whenever someone does come to my page spewing conspiracies and insults I always take a look at their page. I would say 9 times out of 10 there is a bible quote in their bio’. Why is AJ Writer the only Christian on this planet that seems to have his shit together?? But, sadly it’s no longer just the happy clappers. It’s like the zombie apocalypse has taken over. On a positive note, Australia’s anti-vaxxers seem a lot quieter now they’ve been ignored and vax rates have gone up.
That Facebook profile thing is so true. I always tell people to click through to see who is throwing the bullshit around. Bible verses, Trump, QAnon. It's cookie cutter stuff.
As for Dave - he's done an about turn on the language he was using which is GREAT. Will summarise this next newsletter.
Have a superb week! Stay sane!
I’ve come to the point where when anybody mentions “freedom” alarm bells start going off in my head.
Yeah, "Freedom" triggers the same WTF in me as "do your own research" and "just asking questions!"
I also think it’s interesting that at the same time that NZ is falling apart at the seams over a simple vaccine, a long awaited vaccine for malaria became available. It was incredible to watch the news and see how mothers 👏🏼Did 👏🏼 Not 👏🏼 Hesitate 👏🏼 to vaccinate their babies. They have watched their children be maimed and die for generations and when a vaccine finally became available it was a miracle for them. We are so fucking sheltered and privileged in this country.
On a side note - this webworm community is so fantastic, and helps me feel like there are still some sane people out there who are able to have calm, insightful, and rational discussions.
It's pretty good here, right? And I know we are our own echo chamber, too - but in saying that, people disagree and they are polite and we talk it out. And yes - the total nutbags are not here, which is nice.
Absolutely an echo chamber here, but at least it feels like a safe and rational echo chamber.
I'm sure Dave will ban me from his blog just to maintain that echo chamber.
Can't have the plebs doing any thinking.
Paul Wilson! Thank you for your contributions to Webworm. Much appreciated.
Always look for Paul's comments 🤣❤️
Um.. I never quite know what to say with comments like this.
Thanks for the validation - sometimes I worry that I comment a bit too much...
Please keep commenting Paul! Always insightful and interesting information.
I think you're safe to comment as much as you like on webworm!
Yes, you can stay I guess. ;)
Whenever I read your comments, I always think "the size of that man's brain, what doesnt he know". I mean that in a nice way. :)
Heh - that made me think of this piece of Mike Myers in full flight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqycJpRdVaY