I would like to know how much Pearl Jam know about this arrangement? Do they even know? Has this type of arrangement expressly come from Pearl Jam and their management?
I would like to believe that they know nothing of this and would be mortified that a fellow artist was being treated with such contempt and how it reflects upon them as a highly respected and influential group of people. But maybe they do know…
David, can you flick Eddie a quick email and ask? 😂
This sort of weird treatment of artists has been happening for way too long. I had an artist-run space for 7 years and once a woman came to me saying the Thompson Twins wanted to hire my space for a soiree. We talked about it a bit before it came to the question of paying. This woman did the same thing to my face: it's Alannah Currie, she's really into art and imagine the amazing exposure...blah blah. She pressed on insistently and kinda threateningly. All over a few hundred dollars.
That is a crap deal for the artist and the only party that benefits is TSURT. Their only outlay is raw materials, literally the cheapest part of the process. Assholes.
My experience is not even slightly on the same scale though is a similar theme. Over the last 8 years at my work, I became an expert in the company itself. It celebrated a big anniversary recently so for 18 months I worked with an author and a few others to put together the story of the company, in addition to my regular day job. Worked weekends, ultra long days, and totally burnt myself out. It was published and then I left my job. My ‘going away’ present... was a copy of the book. I compare it to giving a copy of their final thesis to a graduate as their graduation present (I do have a fun story about my actual graduation present but that’s for another time) 😂
“He pays in t-shirts he pays in merch…can’t find a nicer band”
One of the shittier things people can do when trying to hire artists is to tell them what a great opportunity this is for them. As an artist this has become a red flag for me. Artist want to hear what a big opportunity this is for the COMPANY because they get to hire such an amazing artist!
If someone in a professional business context cannot use accurate spelling and grammar, I'm unlikely to do business with them, regardless of how they want to arrange the deal - I'm just not going to trust that it's going to go well.
Ooft that is so weird, and Chris is so rude! Yikes. "Here, in order to get paid you're going to have to deal with a huge amount of extra work that you may or may not be capable of even doing. Be thankful." 😬
This is so strange. Immediately I’m on the side of the artist. Not only is Pearl Jam a hugely successful band but they’ve been successful for over 25 years. Their fan club is $35 a month. There’s around 83,000 members. Thats 2.9 million a year. Thats one aspect of what they do. They are all massively wealthy.
On the other hand I’ve sold pearl jam posters I’ve bought from shows from $1000-$2000. So it can be a lucrative option to consider. It should be an option though, not the only form of payment. Take a fair market value pay or 100 posters. Give the artist a choice, instead they said take it or leave it and were jerks about it.
Pear Jam show posters are highly sought after but some shows just don’t sell. Depends on the show, where it was, what they played etc etc. how is an artist supposed to navigate that if they aren’t big fans of Pearl Jam?
Good on Jess for turning it down imo. Artists should be paid in actual legitimate pay-the-rent money for their work. And that amount should be set according to the scope and size of the job, not dependent on the success of an artist, their show or their fan base.
Also, Chris is estimating that Jess could make $12000, minus all shipping costs, advertising and her time. For an international artist like PEARL JAM.
For comparison, I work for a small NZ non profit that runs a couple of key events for our community. Each time we engage a new or young artist to design a piece for us, we pay $1000 (+gst). This is part paid on signing, and remainder upon delivery. We provide a full design brief, check in sessions, and pick up any dladminsitrative load. If we (a team of 10 people with a practically non-existent budget) can do it, so can everyone else.
Large companies get away with this shit because they can. I wish more people had Jess's bravery to pull them up on unacceptable behaviour
If this 100-poster sales project was likely to be lucrative for Jess, economically speaking it would be rational for TSURT to leap at the chance to pay her cash upfront and take the sales project on themselves. In fact it would be rational for them to have agreed this deal with all their bands - "we will pay the artist out of our own pocket in exchange for getting 100 additional posters to sell". The fact they don't do that tells me that they're not being honest about the cost or, especially, the risk of these sales projects.
[Edited to correct inconsequential but irritating typo]
This is the most inane and exploitative business model I've heard of in ... well, about a week. So the artist is 'paid' in limited copies of their own work, which they can hope and pray they can sell? If TSURT is so strapped for cash, just offer a healthy percentage on the gross or profit instead, with no up-front. This is offering a limited, possibly unrealized percentage on the back-end, and no up-front at all. And don't get me started on 'exposure' as compensation.
This comment is so important: "Consider how many years they’ve spent building their skills and career and developing their artwork. Consider the time it takes to make an artwork. Not just the time to execute it but the hours and days of sketching out different ideas."
It might take an artist very little time to do the final draft or produce something - but that's because of all their time building their skills, developing their craft, thinking about it, sketching it - all the things before they put final pen to paper.
All of that experience should be rewarded!
Wasn't it Picasso or the Chuppa Chup artist who was selling 'scribbles' for hundreds of dollars, and when people complained at the price he said 'it took a life time to make that' or something? I could google it but I'm now in the app and switching to Google is now an effort and my Alexa is out of screaming distance. Let's say it was and not check it.
I'm old enough to remember when t shirts didn't exist, and then a time when they came in plain colours. Then an extraordinary thing happened: You were expected to pay money for a t shirt that effectively was an advertisement for something - a band, a drink,... surely the band or Coca Cola or whoever should be paying you to parade their brand for them???
Wow, that's a cringey way to deal with artists, "please do all that work and here, take your own art as payment🧐 I GET IT, but it's a shitty way to get paid. If it takes 30 hrs to make the art you need 30 hours payment in hard currency for your time. The 100 posters should be the kick back for being awesome. My opinion of course but I moonlight as a metalsmith and it seems to me you have to fight every time to justify getting paid even minimum wage for your time, effort and intellectual property, and plenty of people will run you down to chip away at that price.
Another sad twist on the old classic ‘if you love doing something, you really shouldn’t need money to do it’ - musicians get this all the time too. Along with the other chestnut of getting paid in EXPOSURE. If only exposure paid the bills.
I would like to know how much Pearl Jam know about this arrangement? Do they even know? Has this type of arrangement expressly come from Pearl Jam and their management?
I would like to believe that they know nothing of this and would be mortified that a fellow artist was being treated with such contempt and how it reflects upon them as a highly respected and influential group of people. But maybe they do know…
David, can you flick Eddie a quick email and ask? 😂
This sort of weird treatment of artists has been happening for way too long. I had an artist-run space for 7 years and once a woman came to me saying the Thompson Twins wanted to hire my space for a soiree. We talked about it a bit before it came to the question of paying. This woman did the same thing to my face: it's Alannah Currie, she's really into art and imagine the amazing exposure...blah blah. She pressed on insistently and kinda threateningly. All over a few hundred dollars.
Exposure...you know, people die of it!!
That is a crap deal for the artist and the only party that benefits is TSURT. Their only outlay is raw materials, literally the cheapest part of the process. Assholes.
My experience is not even slightly on the same scale though is a similar theme. Over the last 8 years at my work, I became an expert in the company itself. It celebrated a big anniversary recently so for 18 months I worked with an author and a few others to put together the story of the company, in addition to my regular day job. Worked weekends, ultra long days, and totally burnt myself out. It was published and then I left my job. My ‘going away’ present... was a copy of the book. I compare it to giving a copy of their final thesis to a graduate as their graduation present (I do have a fun story about my actual graduation present but that’s for another time) 😂
“He pays in t-shirts he pays in merch…can’t find a nicer band”
One of the shittier things people can do when trying to hire artists is to tell them what a great opportunity this is for them. As an artist this has become a red flag for me. Artist want to hear what a big opportunity this is for the COMPANY because they get to hire such an amazing artist!
If someone in a professional business context cannot use accurate spelling and grammar, I'm unlikely to do business with them, regardless of how they want to arrange the deal - I'm just not going to trust that it's going to go well.
Ooft that is so weird, and Chris is so rude! Yikes. "Here, in order to get paid you're going to have to deal with a huge amount of extra work that you may or may not be capable of even doing. Be thankful." 😬
This is so strange. Immediately I’m on the side of the artist. Not only is Pearl Jam a hugely successful band but they’ve been successful for over 25 years. Their fan club is $35 a month. There’s around 83,000 members. Thats 2.9 million a year. Thats one aspect of what they do. They are all massively wealthy.
On the other hand I’ve sold pearl jam posters I’ve bought from shows from $1000-$2000. So it can be a lucrative option to consider. It should be an option though, not the only form of payment. Take a fair market value pay or 100 posters. Give the artist a choice, instead they said take it or leave it and were jerks about it.
Pear Jam show posters are highly sought after but some shows just don’t sell. Depends on the show, where it was, what they played etc etc. how is an artist supposed to navigate that if they aren’t big fans of Pearl Jam?
Good on Jess for turning it down imo. Artists should be paid in actual legitimate pay-the-rent money for their work. And that amount should be set according to the scope and size of the job, not dependent on the success of an artist, their show or their fan base.
Also, Chris is estimating that Jess could make $12000, minus all shipping costs, advertising and her time. For an international artist like PEARL JAM.
For comparison, I work for a small NZ non profit that runs a couple of key events for our community. Each time we engage a new or young artist to design a piece for us, we pay $1000 (+gst). This is part paid on signing, and remainder upon delivery. We provide a full design brief, check in sessions, and pick up any dladminsitrative load. If we (a team of 10 people with a practically non-existent budget) can do it, so can everyone else.
Large companies get away with this shit because they can. I wish more people had Jess's bravery to pull them up on unacceptable behaviour
If this 100-poster sales project was likely to be lucrative for Jess, economically speaking it would be rational for TSURT to leap at the chance to pay her cash upfront and take the sales project on themselves. In fact it would be rational for them to have agreed this deal with all their bands - "we will pay the artist out of our own pocket in exchange for getting 100 additional posters to sell". The fact they don't do that tells me that they're not being honest about the cost or, especially, the risk of these sales projects.
[Edited to correct inconsequential but irritating typo]
This is the most inane and exploitative business model I've heard of in ... well, about a week. So the artist is 'paid' in limited copies of their own work, which they can hope and pray they can sell? If TSURT is so strapped for cash, just offer a healthy percentage on the gross or profit instead, with no up-front. This is offering a limited, possibly unrealized percentage on the back-end, and no up-front at all. And don't get me started on 'exposure' as compensation.
I think a really awesome art piece would be to make her own parody poster and instead of tour dates put the email exchanges there instead.
This comment is so important: "Consider how many years they’ve spent building their skills and career and developing their artwork. Consider the time it takes to make an artwork. Not just the time to execute it but the hours and days of sketching out different ideas."
It might take an artist very little time to do the final draft or produce something - but that's because of all their time building their skills, developing their craft, thinking about it, sketching it - all the things before they put final pen to paper.
All of that experience should be rewarded!
Wasn't it Picasso or the Chuppa Chup artist who was selling 'scribbles' for hundreds of dollars, and when people complained at the price he said 'it took a life time to make that' or something? I could google it but I'm now in the app and switching to Google is now an effort and my Alexa is out of screaming distance. Let's say it was and not check it.
Pay artists.
It’s like asking Pearl Jam to come play your 50th and saying they can take the profits from the bar.
I'm old enough to remember when t shirts didn't exist, and then a time when they came in plain colours. Then an extraordinary thing happened: You were expected to pay money for a t shirt that effectively was an advertisement for something - a band, a drink,... surely the band or Coca Cola or whoever should be paying you to parade their brand for them???
Wow, that's a cringey way to deal with artists, "please do all that work and here, take your own art as payment🧐 I GET IT, but it's a shitty way to get paid. If it takes 30 hrs to make the art you need 30 hours payment in hard currency for your time. The 100 posters should be the kick back for being awesome. My opinion of course but I moonlight as a metalsmith and it seems to me you have to fight every time to justify getting paid even minimum wage for your time, effort and intellectual property, and plenty of people will run you down to chip away at that price.
Another sad twist on the old classic ‘if you love doing something, you really shouldn’t need money to do it’ - musicians get this all the time too. Along with the other chestnut of getting paid in EXPOSURE. If only exposure paid the bills.