*zing*. Yeah. Who would have thought. There is a certain awfulness to the types of people who rise to fame via Reality TV. It attracts narcissists (not always, but often), so here we are.
This shit though: "I look forward to studying all of the symbols that have ever existed and research them thoroughly before posting"
What a load of horseshit - it may as well say "oh, how can those picky (((critics))) expect me to know which symbols are Nazi emblems?!"
That symbol was a bit niche, but still quite recognisable... And then a fucking terrorist proudly displayed it before killing 51 people in a cowardly attack of Christchurch's Muslim community. There's really no excuse not to be aware of what it is now.
And "true history of Germany" indeed. Fucking dipshit.
He's married to New Zealander Nicky Watson too... I wonder if her brain is infested with the same worms now? She was always on the "ditzy" side, but in my experience was actually a nice and pretty genuine person.
Even if there was an excuse to not know that symbol, he's still completely full of shit. He literally acknowledged in the comments of the original post that he knew what the symbol was.
I think it's the use of "that have ever existed" that nails the douchery coffin shut. That's a very particular way of saying it, instead of I'll do my research (though, obviously we know it's horseshit, that he knew what he was doing) or another less aggressive response. It's the petulant sarcastic "you caught me but I'm not giving in" response. I hear it very clearly when reading it.
The original caterpillar and butterfly cartoon was an innocuous one (the butterfly is a monarch with orange wings: just google “caterpillar butterfly meme”), so if he actually wanted to post a simple message about personal growth and change, he absolutely could have done so. He chose the version to which someone had added a MAGA cap and the Sonnenrad, symbols with very specific meanings. My only real question is the extent to which he understands what he’s doing and is just being disingenuous and smarmy with his disclaimers (they do come off as highly smarmy, particularly the little passive-aggressive dig about having to research all possible meanings of symbols as if it were an impossible expectation), and the extent to which he’s being used by much more cynical and self-aware neo-Nazis who encourage him to post this stuff, telling him it’s innocuous and anyone who criticises it is unreasonable.
It's like the alt-right chodes and their white power hand sign - "whhhhaaaaat? It's just the OK sign" - they love their bullshit deniability and irony games.
I'd 100% bank on him knowing, and loving the chaos he's causing. He will have enough people telling him he's great doing this stuff that he'll keep doing it, too.
He started at "Leaving Reality" (paleo diets are pseudo-science) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0pOGVMntM out to "Science Denial" (his COVID/5G stuff) and now he's out past "The Antisemitic Point of No Return" (sonnenrads and holocaust denial).
Antisemitism and racism (i.e. Nazism) are the black hole of conspiracism where it's all connected and hateful. Once you're over that "event horizon", it's pretty hard to come back into the light since that involves owning the shame of what you've said and done.
For someone like Pete who craves celebrity, there's often too much invested to quit - it's akin to a narcissistic addiction at that point. And as David sadly notes, there is an audience for this stuff.
I'm reminded of my favorite line from Roxie Hart in the musical Chicago:
"Oooh,I'm a star, and the audience loves me... and I love them. And they love me for loving them and I love them for loving me. And we love each other. And that's because none of us got enough love in our childhood. And that's showbiz... kid."
I get the joke now! I think I'll pass and refer on after all, I've heard that clinical psychologists are probably more effective with this client group :-)
Haha I'm not that funny! I am looking for a therapist, it's recommended that us therapists get therapy but I dont want to see a clinpsy cause I dont think that's what I need at this point. Pete on the other hand needs a few rounds of ect
Fuck. This reeks of the same sort of mock ignorance proclaimed by the Mercy Picture fuckwads. 'It's just a symbol. If you break it down it's just colours and shapes and nothing bad can come from those". No, just no.
I know very little about cooking, even less about cooking in Australia, but that ‘are we the baddies’ clip is from one of my favourite shows, so now I’m dying to know have you watched Peep Show? (The UK version of course not the horrible US spin off)
Peep Show and is the best and I was very happy to see the Mitchell and Webb sketch in there! Laughing at Nazis is probably a good defence tactic?! I'd like to think so anyway.
I didn't know there was a US Peep Show, it sounds horrendous.
The US spinoff is on YouTube, it got cancelled after the pilot I think because it was so awful! I don’t know if you’ve seen This Country (another 10/10 show) but they’re making a US version of that and I’m not looking forward to it at all, British and American humour is so different they should never cross paths 😂
I feel that, before sharing something with really obvious symbols, you can just have a quick google search or a flick over the ADL's Hate Symbol database which would allow you to not post something racist accidentally, and if you did, deleting and apologising for not knowing would be the thing to do.
Since Pete clearly didn't do any of these things and in fact doubled down on the nazi stuff and then posted an incredibly passive aggressive "apology" post, I can only assume we'll see more and more overt nazi stuff from him.
I feel like Pete is somebody who hasn't heard the word "no" often enough. I'm glad he's hearing it now, at least a bit. It is a shame that he will use it to try and spin a story of martyrdom.
As always, thanks David for making our terrifying reality somewhat more fun and interesting!
100% as a Gen X-er who grew up alongside the internet, it's become an increasingly bitter and acrimonious place. When I was younger, it was a great way to meet new people and explore new things, I think it has lost the childlike wonder for many.
I stupidly read the comments on his social media last and I still haven't come down from reading -that the people who are saying what he posted was shit are worse than Nazi ideas / no one is harmed from seeing a Nazi symbol / people upset about the symbol need to get off the hate train.
'Love is all there is! Love one another', yet supporting that.
Brain explodey! Coming to terms with the fact that people happy to ignore an attack but really can't stand a response back or working to protect from more attacks. Hurts the head and heart
Yeah, it's rough, eh. I don't usual feel particularly emotional about the stuff I wrote about - like, I keep it in order - but this one: oof. I wanted to scream.
I read some too. So many sycophantic acolytes with cringemaking emojis. Mixed in I suspect with some alt right trouble makers. Such a weird mix........
Yes, this 'love everything' stance runs smack into the paradox of tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."
In short, using the idea of tolerance to protect hate speech is morally unjustifiable. If you've broken the peace treaty with violent speech attacking others, you can't expect to be invoke it as a shield against social consequences of that speech i.e. criticism or rejection such as deplatforming.
Amen. It's funny how quick people are to scream "free speech" to protect racism and other forms of hate... when they've never moaned about it before. Frustrating.
Thanks, Daniel. It sure is. And it's so succinct and insightful. There is also Gavan Titley's short book 'Is Free Speech Racist' which David put me onto and it's very readable if you'd like a slightly expanded take.
The apology was a pathetic excuse of an apology and so disingenuous. I can't decide if it is cynical (these controversies and conspiracies drive traffic to his oils, resorts, books, products etc) or whether he believes he is a truth spreader/heeler or whether it is something else. What is sad is that I believe that in the COVID age one thing we could be talking about more is immunity and being healthy and how that can help you fight COVID..... and there is a place for healthy recipes and yummy food in doing this.
That "cynical exploiter" vs. "truth teller" dichotomy is a tricky one and also occurs with conspiracy theorists in general - the one's who believe and the ones who exploit.
Primary psychopathic individuals are neurologically shame-less (they don't feel shame or fear) and many take pleasure in cruelty (i.e. they are sadistic) whereas many narcissistic individuals are shame-full (they feel too much shame underneath and try to bypass and hide it) so their grandiosity and inability to apologise is a compensation or coping mechanism.
As such, fauxpologies are typical behaviors for narcissistic individuals - the "I'm sorry you were offended" non-apology.
But psychopathy and narcissism are not mutually exclusive - 'secondary psychopathy' or 'malignant narcissism' is where the two overlap and co-exist i.e. reactive grandiosity and entitlement combined with an enjoyment of cruelty. And these are arguably the most interpersonally dangerous individuals.
Paul, yet again you come here to lay down some wisdom. This is something I've been thinking about - and been confused about - a lot. Before reading them I'd pop him in the narcissist camp (he's a reality star) - but the overlap makes a lot of sense. Not that we are diagnosing anyone here... but the rainbow sarcastic heart and his overall demeanour certainly makes me wonder.
First off, I’d just like to acknowledge that a lot of this wisdom isn’t mine. I’m paraphrasing from many amazing therapists and researchers who I’ve learned a lot from but I figure readers here don’t want a bibliography :-) I’m standing on the shoulders of giants so I hope I’m not coming across as an insufferable know-it-all. Secondly, my own life history has involved being on the receiving end of um... ‘difficult people’ so I do relate to the pain and perplexity that you and others have spoken about here personally. I’m equally in awe and appreciation of some of the vulnerability and honesty that fellow webwormers have shown here. They’re inspiring.
wonder where he got the neo-nazi version of the meme? A reverse google image search doesn't turn it up, but I guess the nazis hang out somewhere a bit more underground
Interesting question. It's the sort of thing that could easily have bubbled up on 8kun/8chan/4chan or Stormfront but it's quite possible he just took the original and overlaid the MAGA and sonnenrad himself, since that wouldn't have been hard. And that's probably worse.
OMG he is revolting. I might be super dumb, but I'm confused by that meme... is he saying that Nazi's have transformed or that MAGA peeps should transform in to Nazi's? or that Nazi's weren't that bad in the first place? It's all pretty dark and hard to stay compassionate and understanding. Fascism is alive and well it seems. How many times do we have to go through this before we learn?
I believe the implication is that MAGAs are an immature form that should 'evolve' into a Nazi once they are 'enlightened/aware' enough.
Amongst neo-Nazi groups online, slowly 'red-pilling' conservatives into covert Nazism is an explicit goal. It's kind of like boiling a frog - a slow descent into fascism.
So dog-whistling with things like the OK hand signal and memes like this one serves a dual (and arguably sadistic) purpose - taking pleasure in the emotional distress it causes to the group who know that the symbol means (liberals/progressives and people of Jewish descent) and well as taking pleasure in deceiving bystanders who wonder what the fuss is about, something psychologist Paul Ekman called "duper's delight" https://www.paulekman.com/blog/duping-delight/
So, Pete was probably enjoying the predicatable reaction to all of this. Well, up until the point his publisher dropped him, I'd imagine.
Yeah, it's saying that Neo-Nazi space is the correct and enlightened place for someone who is a Trump supporter to end up. It wasn't a criticism, either. And he knows that.
I've had a problem with Pete Evans since he started spreading dangerous nutritional advice. I can't believe it's taken so long for his publisher to drop him. I hope others (like Coles?) have also dropped him. As for his snarky "sorry not sorry" apology, that, like many other things he does makes my blood boil.
From masterchef to master race eh
*zing*. Yeah. Who would have thought. There is a certain awfulness to the types of people who rise to fame via Reality TV. It attracts narcissists (not always, but often), so here we are.
This shit though: "I look forward to studying all of the symbols that have ever existed and research them thoroughly before posting"
What a load of horseshit - it may as well say "oh, how can those picky (((critics))) expect me to know which symbols are Nazi emblems?!"
That symbol was a bit niche, but still quite recognisable... And then a fucking terrorist proudly displayed it before killing 51 people in a cowardly attack of Christchurch's Muslim community. There's really no excuse not to be aware of what it is now.
And "true history of Germany" indeed. Fucking dipshit.
He's married to New Zealander Nicky Watson too... I wonder if her brain is infested with the same worms now? She was always on the "ditzy" side, but in my experience was actually a nice and pretty genuine person.
Even if there was an excuse to not know that symbol, he's still completely full of shit. He literally acknowledged in the comments of the original post that he knew what the symbol was.
I think it's the use of "that have ever existed" that nails the douchery coffin shut. That's a very particular way of saying it, instead of I'll do my research (though, obviously we know it's horseshit, that he knew what he was doing) or another less aggressive response. It's the petulant sarcastic "you caught me but I'm not giving in" response. I hear it very clearly when reading it.
Met Nicki once. I feel for anyone stuck with this hateful man.
The original caterpillar and butterfly cartoon was an innocuous one (the butterfly is a monarch with orange wings: just google “caterpillar butterfly meme”), so if he actually wanted to post a simple message about personal growth and change, he absolutely could have done so. He chose the version to which someone had added a MAGA cap and the Sonnenrad, symbols with very specific meanings. My only real question is the extent to which he understands what he’s doing and is just being disingenuous and smarmy with his disclaimers (they do come off as highly smarmy, particularly the little passive-aggressive dig about having to research all possible meanings of symbols as if it were an impossible expectation), and the extent to which he’s being used by much more cynical and self-aware neo-Nazis who encourage him to post this stuff, telling him it’s innocuous and anyone who criticises it is unreasonable.
Either way what a dickhead.
It's like the alt-right chodes and their white power hand sign - "whhhhaaaaat? It's just the OK sign" - they love their bullshit deniability and irony games.
I'd 100% bank on him knowing, and loving the chaos he's causing. He will have enough people telling him he's great doing this stuff that he'll keep doing it, too.
Pete seems to be rapidly travelling through Abbie Richards' Cornucopia of Conspiracy https://twitter.com/abbieasr/status/1312512066071060480. It's more of a descent than an ascent.
He started at "Leaving Reality" (paleo diets are pseudo-science) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0pOGVMntM out to "Science Denial" (his COVID/5G stuff) and now he's out past "The Antisemitic Point of No Return" (sonnenrads and holocaust denial).
Antisemitism and racism (i.e. Nazism) are the black hole of conspiracism where it's all connected and hateful. Once you're over that "event horizon", it's pretty hard to come back into the light since that involves owning the shame of what you've said and done.
For someone like Pete who craves celebrity, there's often too much invested to quit - it's akin to a narcissistic addiction at that point. And as David sadly notes, there is an audience for this stuff.
I'm reminded of my favorite line from Roxie Hart in the musical Chicago:
"Oooh,I'm a star, and the audience loves me... and I love them. And they love me for loving them and I love them for loving me. And we love each other. And that's because none of us got enough love in our childhood. And that's showbiz... kid."
Paul - where do you practice, and do you have space for a new client? :)
I get the joke now! I think I'll pass and refer on after all, I've heard that clinical psychologists are probably more effective with this client group :-)
Haha I'm not that funny! I am looking for a therapist, it's recommended that us therapists get therapy but I dont want to see a clinpsy cause I dont think that's what I need at this point. Pete on the other hand needs a few rounds of ect
Ah, right - email me at paul.murray.wilson@gmail.com and we can explore your options.
Fuck. This reeks of the same sort of mock ignorance proclaimed by the Mercy Picture fuckwads. 'It's just a symbol. If you break it down it's just colours and shapes and nothing bad can come from those". No, just no.
Yes, but he has a much larger platform than them and therefore more responsibility!
Both awful. Both idiotic. Both needed calling out.
I know very little about cooking, even less about cooking in Australia, but that ‘are we the baddies’ clip is from one of my favourite shows, so now I’m dying to know have you watched Peep Show? (The UK version of course not the horrible US spin off)
Superhands!
But yes Pete, you are the baddie, and he deserves all he gets from the backlash of this
Peep Show and is the best and I was very happy to see the Mitchell and Webb sketch in there! Laughing at Nazis is probably a good defence tactic?! I'd like to think so anyway.
I didn't know there was a US Peep Show, it sounds horrendous.
The US spinoff is on YouTube, it got cancelled after the pilot I think because it was so awful! I don’t know if you’ve seen This Country (another 10/10 show) but they’re making a US version of that and I’m not looking forward to it at all, British and American humour is so different they should never cross paths 😂
I feel that, before sharing something with really obvious symbols, you can just have a quick google search or a flick over the ADL's Hate Symbol database which would allow you to not post something racist accidentally, and if you did, deleting and apologising for not knowing would be the thing to do.
Since Pete clearly didn't do any of these things and in fact doubled down on the nazi stuff and then posted an incredibly passive aggressive "apology" post, I can only assume we'll see more and more overt nazi stuff from him.
Yep - he's all in. He is also relishing in the hurt he's causing.
I feel like Pete is somebody who hasn't heard the word "no" often enough. I'm glad he's hearing it now, at least a bit. It is a shame that he will use it to try and spin a story of martyrdom.
As always, thanks David for making our terrifying reality somewhat more fun and interesting!
I love the internet so much but I hate the internet so much.
Fredrick Brennan commented on Twitter recently that the internet is "less fun" than when he was a kid. I tend to agree.
100% as a Gen X-er who grew up alongside the internet, it's become an increasingly bitter and acrimonious place. When I was younger, it was a great way to meet new people and explore new things, I think it has lost the childlike wonder for many.
I feel ya.
I stupidly read the comments on his social media last and I still haven't come down from reading -that the people who are saying what he posted was shit are worse than Nazi ideas / no one is harmed from seeing a Nazi symbol / people upset about the symbol need to get off the hate train.
'Love is all there is! Love one another', yet supporting that.
Brain explodey! Coming to terms with the fact that people happy to ignore an attack but really can't stand a response back or working to protect from more attacks. Hurts the head and heart
Yeah, it's rough, eh. I don't usual feel particularly emotional about the stuff I wrote about - like, I keep it in order - but this one: oof. I wanted to scream.
I read some too. So many sycophantic acolytes with cringemaking emojis. Mixed in I suspect with some alt right trouble makers. Such a weird mix........
Yes, this 'love everything' stance runs smack into the paradox of tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."
Yonatan Zunger really explores this well "Tolerance is not a moral absolute; it is a peace treaty." https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376
In short, using the idea of tolerance to protect hate speech is morally unjustifiable. If you've broken the peace treaty with violent speech attacking others, you can't expect to be invoke it as a shield against social consequences of that speech i.e. criticism or rejection such as deplatforming.
Amen. It's funny how quick people are to scream "free speech" to protect racism and other forms of hate... when they've never moaned about it before. Frustrating.
Paul - that article by Zunger is brilliant. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks, Daniel. It sure is. And it's so succinct and insightful. There is also Gavan Titley's short book 'Is Free Speech Racist' which David put me onto and it's very readable if you'd like a slightly expanded take.
Thanks Paul, I will check that out
https://www.amazon.com/Free-Speech-Racist-Debating-Race-ebook/dp/B08CS4PHMJ
SO MANY EMOJIS!
The apology was a pathetic excuse of an apology and so disingenuous. I can't decide if it is cynical (these controversies and conspiracies drive traffic to his oils, resorts, books, products etc) or whether he believes he is a truth spreader/heeler or whether it is something else. What is sad is that I believe that in the COVID age one thing we could be talking about more is immunity and being healthy and how that can help you fight COVID..... and there is a place for healthy recipes and yummy food in doing this.
That "cynical exploiter" vs. "truth teller" dichotomy is a tricky one and also occurs with conspiracy theorists in general - the one's who believe and the ones who exploit.
Primary psychopathic individuals are neurologically shame-less (they don't feel shame or fear) and many take pleasure in cruelty (i.e. they are sadistic) whereas many narcissistic individuals are shame-full (they feel too much shame underneath and try to bypass and hide it) so their grandiosity and inability to apologise is a compensation or coping mechanism.
As such, fauxpologies are typical behaviors for narcissistic individuals - the "I'm sorry you were offended" non-apology.
But psychopathy and narcissism are not mutually exclusive - 'secondary psychopathy' or 'malignant narcissism' is where the two overlap and co-exist i.e. reactive grandiosity and entitlement combined with an enjoyment of cruelty. And these are arguably the most interpersonally dangerous individuals.
Paul, yet again you come here to lay down some wisdom. This is something I've been thinking about - and been confused about - a lot. Before reading them I'd pop him in the narcissist camp (he's a reality star) - but the overlap makes a lot of sense. Not that we are diagnosing anyone here... but the rainbow sarcastic heart and his overall demeanour certainly makes me wonder.
First off, I’d just like to acknowledge that a lot of this wisdom isn’t mine. I’m paraphrasing from many amazing therapists and researchers who I’ve learned a lot from but I figure readers here don’t want a bibliography :-) I’m standing on the shoulders of giants so I hope I’m not coming across as an insufferable know-it-all. Secondly, my own life history has involved being on the receiving end of um... ‘difficult people’ so I do relate to the pain and perplexity that you and others have spoken about here personally. I’m equally in awe and appreciation of some of the vulnerability and honesty that fellow webwormers have shown here. They’re inspiring.
wonder where he got the neo-nazi version of the meme? A reverse google image search doesn't turn it up, but I guess the nazis hang out somewhere a bit more underground
I imagine a supporter sent it to him, or tagged him in it. He's too stupid to navigate the chans. It will have ended up in his inbox.
Interesting question. It's the sort of thing that could easily have bubbled up on 8kun/8chan/4chan or Stormfront but it's quite possible he just took the original and overlaid the MAGA and sonnenrad himself, since that wouldn't have been hard. And that's probably worse.
I seriously doubt he has the knowledge or skills to do that. He's always struck me as pretty stupid
Also had a laugh that someone APPROVING of the post said 'symbolism will be their downfall'.
For once qanon person was accidently right.
It's a stretch, but yes. God, it's frustrating. I try and stick with kindness but it often makes me feel like stabbing my eyes out with a fork!
OMG he is revolting. I might be super dumb, but I'm confused by that meme... is he saying that Nazi's have transformed or that MAGA peeps should transform in to Nazi's? or that Nazi's weren't that bad in the first place? It's all pretty dark and hard to stay compassionate and understanding. Fascism is alive and well it seems. How many times do we have to go through this before we learn?
I believe the implication is that MAGAs are an immature form that should 'evolve' into a Nazi once they are 'enlightened/aware' enough.
Amongst neo-Nazi groups online, slowly 'red-pilling' conservatives into covert Nazism is an explicit goal. It's kind of like boiling a frog - a slow descent into fascism.
So dog-whistling with things like the OK hand signal and memes like this one serves a dual (and arguably sadistic) purpose - taking pleasure in the emotional distress it causes to the group who know that the symbol means (liberals/progressives and people of Jewish descent) and well as taking pleasure in deceiving bystanders who wonder what the fuss is about, something psychologist Paul Ekman called "duper's delight" https://www.paulekman.com/blog/duping-delight/
So, Pete was probably enjoying the predicatable reaction to all of this. Well, up until the point his publisher dropped him, I'd imagine.
Yeah, it's saying that Neo-Nazi space is the correct and enlightened place for someone who is a Trump supporter to end up. It wasn't a criticism, either. And he knows that.
From the low-fat fry-up into the firing squad to-do list.
I've had a problem with Pete Evans since he started spreading dangerous nutritional advice. I can't believe it's taken so long for his publisher to drop him. I hope others (like Coles?) have also dropped him. As for his snarky "sorry not sorry" apology, that, like many other things he does makes my blood boil.