I discovered a few months ago that I'm the lone outlier in a household of face blind people. It was a real, 'Wait, what?' moment.
Imagine this around the family dining table: My oldest was in her first term at high school and had just taken part in an outdoor-pursuits type day which was intended to be a form-class bonding thing. We were looking at some photos of the day which had been posted online and I pointed to the only adult in an image and said, 'So that's your form teacher, then?'
Daughter, squinting: 'Uhh, I guess? Maybe?'
Me: 'So you think that isn't her? Who else attended?'
Daughter: 'I dunno. I mean, it COULD be her...'
Me: 'Well, what does she look like?"
Daughter: ...
Nothing. Literally nothing. And I was trying to take in how it was possible to not be able to recall even BASIC stuff about somebody you saw every day, and I said; 'Can you not just visualise her?'
Husband: 'Hey, what are you talking about? You mean, like, SEE somebody's face in your mind?'
Me: 'Yes. Bingo.'
Husband: 'I can't do that.'
Son: 'I can't do that.'
I kinda didn't believe them. I said to the kids, 'But you know what Granddad looks like, right?'
'Sure,' they say.
'Okay, describe him.'
'Umm...he's tall.' 'And he wears glasses.'
And that was them done - for a person they've seen a couple of times a week for their whole lives.
Whereas, me? 'He's tall, and thin, and starting to be a little bit stooped, and yes he wears glasses, and he has white hair which falls over his forehead and quite a small nose for a guy and mad thick eyebrows and grey eyes and in-turned lips and one of those smiles that curves down rather than up and big teeth which are a bit jumbled and deep grooves down each side of his nose and...'
Husband: 'You really do have, like, a photo in your head you're working off, don't you?'
Me: 'Yep. What do you have?'
Husband: 'Um. A list, I guess. Just...facts I have to remember. And associate with a person. Along with their damn name and whose Dad they are...'
And the weirdest thing of all? The other three members of my household DON'T need to rotate maps or Lego instruction booklets so that they're oriented according to current reality - if they have an object or a road in front of them they can rotate stuff, even complex three-dimensional half-made models, in-their-heads. And I can't...
This reminds me of when I found out that everyone does not have a 'voice' in their head... I have ADHD, and so the 'voice' in my head literally never shuts up! I cannot imagine what fills people's brains if there is no voice there?!? I also have images in my brain, but usually only if I'm trying to remember something, or create something. Otherwise, it's non-stop chatter 🤪
Visual processing/visual reasoning is a whole different area of the brain from facial recognition. :) I'm also the lone non-proso in my family. My husband will describe someone's "soul mood" - he said it's like a permanent mood someone has. My husband's mom says there's almost an aura she sees of people and uses it to recognize others. It's fascinating. They are both non religious.
Your family's responses sound like what I'd give about people, but because of aphantasia, not face blindness. I can figure out something rotated but I'm holding facts in my head ("three cubes up, two to the right, one back from that," etc.)
Far out. Although I have aphantasia I do recognise people when I see them and in photos, so I don’t have face blindness as such. But as I don’t have a picture in my head, I’d be pretty crap if asked to describe someone.
Dear David, wanting to comment on this finally forced my hand to subscribe, something I’ve been contemplating a while. I have mild prosopagnosia, faces out of context, even well known faces, are a problem for me. I was reading Dr Oliver Sacks Musicophillia where I first encountered the the term prosopagnosia, something Sacks suffered from. There must be a genetic element to it as my late Sister, Helen Kelly, also had some degree of it. Love your writing ❤️
Max - thanks for the support (really, it means a lot). Amazing that your sister had it, as well - and I think you're right. I just had a message from someone who's entire family has it!
My memory is messed up in all kinds of ways at the moment: PTSD, being on the spectrum, menopause ... So it happens to me. I'm fairly awkward socially, but when I blank on people I should know, I wish the earth would open up and swallow me.
I'm also losing my words - I don't recognize them or I can't think of the word I want to use in conversation and I end up doing a kind of charades-type thing in the hope the people I'm talking to will know the word I'm reaching for. It makes me sad because words are my friends and I used to be really articulate.
I lose words at times, too - and I talk a lot. Brains are tricky. Talk to a GP about it too, to get the conversation rolling: A good idea to keep an eye on this stuff. Also, go easy on yourself! Life can be overwhelming at times and sometimes I reckon the brain just wants an old fashioned rest!
This touched me and I'm feeling a little empathic concern for you Nicky.
Losing our words. I too have experienced this somewhat over recent years. When prompted to describe it by a specialist I was refered to a couple of years ago (for constant headaches I was experiencing at increasing frequencies), I said "It's as if an invisible wall suddenly appears between my mind and my mouth in the middle of a sentence. It started off small and I could sort of slide or side-step around metaphorically, pick another word or get to the one I wanted from another direction. But now my brain just stops and I come up blank and stop mid-sentence, completely losing the thread." His response was that it may be a symptom of early onset dementia. I have been concerned since. Doessn't seem to have gotten any worse, maybe even improved. Perhaps the microdoses of antiepileptics that are successful for the headaches are helping. I don't get to practice direct vocal social intercourse much these days, and I do have to proof read every thing I write carefully for particular typining errorors. Less often than they used to but still happening. How does one judge their own mind's grip?
Well, my thoughts shared. If they rung any bells maybe share yours with your GP?
This happened when I had a stroke 4.5 years ago. It has improved but still happens when I am tired or in situations with lots of noise and movement. I am the silent person in the cafe, looking blankly at the wait staff asking what I want. Positive of covid - people don't expect me to meet them in cafes any more.
That will be aphasia, but I guess you know that. Have any of your health providers told you that sometimes the word that just won't come might appear if you sing your sentences? (Obviously you can't do that in just any context but with family etc it will work okay). Below is an info link for a choir composed of people with neurological disorders. I can attest they sing fluently.
I love your analogy of the wall between your mind and your mouth - that is exactly what it's like. Of course I don't love that you also experience this. I will check it out with my GP.
I really hope that early onset dementia isn't in your future. x
I too have been losing my words. My loss of words coincided with having Covid though, along with bouts of nausea and dizziness. Its been 6 months and it is all still present. I am curious if anyone has had a similar experience. It seems like the long term effects range greatly.
It must be so blimmin frustrating for you, and it is for me too, that a lot of people have forgotten that Covid is still actually a *thing*. Today, Katherine Ryan of RNZ National's '9 to noon' show said "...post covid..." when discussing this current time, like, now - May of 2023! AAaaaghh!!!!
Aw no - you poor thing. I've had Covid and I think that's definitely added to the memory thing. I do know a couple of people who have your symptoms and it's not been easy for them so I can imagine it must also be rough for you. Go easy and take care.
Abso-frickin-lutely. And I forgot to mention I've had Covid - so I think my brain has actually nabbed one of those cheap deals for a week in Rarotonga. It's taking some annual leave.
Some science says age 50 is a benchmark for forgetting names of things and people plus COVID brain is a real thing. I struggled to form sentences after having it, words were blocked. Quite unsettling.
Frustrating huh. I sometimes think my brain is deleting some info in order to fit all this new crazy stuff that's happening out there. Maybe check it out with your GP. Take care ok.
But I mean it wouldn't be so terrible watching the two of you stumble around offending people by forgetting who they are. I'd watch that. I have the opposite where I remember most faces and names. I was incredible at it when I was young. I'm not as good at it now, which bums me out, but I still remember most people. Especially the assholes. I wouldn't mind forgetting them.
Elephant memory for people, names, and faces here.
But! I’ve discovered an odd thing. Sometimes it feels like my brain has registered so so so many possible facial feature combinations over my life that I think I should be able to recognise strangers. So now when I’m walking down a street and I see a person I don’t know, but whose features feel familiar, I freak out a little and my brain scrambles trying to place this stranger.
Yikes! he could've at least given you, even as a complete stranger, a friendly wave & smile back! or maybe his bike was giving him some serious saddle sore!!! ;-)
I'm really good with faces and names also. The weirdest thing is that I at times I act as other people's memory bank for these things. So a sample conversation with my Mum might go like this:
Mum: You remember Liddy's niece, the one who went to live in Australia?
(Spoiler: I do not. I have never met Liddy's niece, and in fact only met Liddy herself once.)
Mum: Darn, what was her name? You know the one, she went out with that boy, ugh, you know, with the hair, the one that lived up such and such a road...
Me: You mean Craig. Craig Hallett.
Mum: Yes! She went out with him for, like a year or so - now what was her name?
Me: Davina.
Mum: That's right! Davina! Well, she had triplets last week! How about that?
How about that. It's a real soap opera inside my head, I tell you. I just can't forget this stuff...
Me too. I remember everything. Also phone numbers, birthdays, how and when we met even when the poor people don't remember me and my awful social awkwardness means I often misread and continue to insist we've met and give details long after it's comfortable for anyone. When I do realise, it's socially awful.
Lol! totally the opposite for me - can't recall any of the soap opery stuff of my friends & family's lives! Sooo frustrating coz they think it's coz i'm not interested. But I AM tho, super nosey is me Lol!
Wow David, I just experienced a real lightbulb moment. I think my partner may have this. In our many years together I have watched him struggle to remember faces and names so many times. I have seen the complete flash of blankness and then concentration on his face as someone greets him who he does know, and he knows he knows (if that makes sense). People have said he’s arrogant and rude because of his struggles in this regard, and claim that he “just couldn’t be bothered” or “doesn’t care about people”. That isn’t the case at all.
I’m off to do some reading about this condition. Thanks for talking about it.
Fair warning, I have never met a doctor for whom I have not been the sole source of information on prosopagnosia. Do your research, and keep it orderly; you are going to have to share it with your doc!
Face recognition technology would be great - an app on your phone - but although people want to be recognised and greeted by name, most are also antagonistic to such technology. Hmmm - perhaps an implanted chip that they can't see you using....
I think the big take away from this is we all process things differently but are also all locked into our own experiences. I guess this explains why conspiracy theories make complete sense to some people but not to others and vice versa. If only we could all allow others to experience the world in their own way and stop trying to force everyone to think the same way as us. Thanks for sharing, now I understand more about this condition it will make me more understanding of other people. I did meet a woman with this once who told me she wouldn't remember me if we met again and I said 'cool it will be like meeting for the first time then'. I guess she found it easier to warn people so she didn't offend them
Yes, I experience this from time to time, but it might be because I’m on the autism spectrum. I work part-time at an independent record store, so I see the same customers pretty much every week. Sometimes I remember their faces, sometimes not. Sometimes I remember their names (if they don’t come in regularly), sometimes not. I’ve learned to accept that I’m never going to remember everyone who walks in the door, but there have been some stressful, awkward situations, for sure.
I have had a few people on the autism spectrum right to me with similar thoughts. I worked in a bank (a teller, ha!) when I left school and hoo boy, was that hard. Customers like to be recognised.
That is fascinating - my 16yo is autistic and she and I often get into weird discussions about her information retention of stuff I’d always considered just a given. She describes her memory for faces and names as *slippery* - she needs context and reference points to hold on to information. Since she was little she writes these amazing detailed character descriptions in the notes app on her phone about her friends - and I just thought it was a quirk. Who they are, what they look like (usually with a slightly jarring comparison to an animal whose mannerisms they mimic) and what they like to talk about. Now I’m wondering if she’s just trying to mask what David has described?
I also need context and reference points if I’m going to remember anyone if I run into them again, just like your daughter. And *slippery* is an excellent way to describe it.
My husband has this ongoing fear that he'll run into a parent of one of our kids' friends on the train, or at the supermarket, and offend them by walking right by. He needs the context of them being with their kids to jog his memory...
Prosopagnosia is considered an autism spectrum disorder, meaning you likely won't find it outside of autism, short of injury.
Autism is hard to diagnose right now but when we are more widely able to look at our brains' axons (the nerve connections) during fetal development we may find out why some people with autism don't have face blindness. I'm looking forward to the neuroscience growing knowledge in this aspect.
My partner has this. Last year, I was heading to a night shift at the same time he finished work for the day. His office is on the way to my work so I walk past it.
He happened to walk out the door when I was about 50-100m away. I smiled and made eye contact and waited for him to see me... Nothing. He blanked me until we were about a metre away from each other 😅
We've known each other 15 years and been together for 8, but because he didn't know I was working that night I was a surprise and he didn't have a clue.
I found the whole thing funny, but I know it's much more of a struggle when it happens with people who don't know him as well as me.
I think we must have talked about this before, because I have known a long time this is an issue for me. The two most famous incidents in my life are not recognizing my ex-husband and asking who an actor was on TV that I really enjoyed (it was Carey Grant). I am pretty sure if I know a person really well, I won't usually be lost or make a mistake, unless it has been a while since I saw the person (I.e. the ex). But if someone isn't a family member, or a close friend, or someone with a distinctive look (like you David) it's good odds there will be a gap of recognition where I hope against hope I can talk with a person for a few minutes and it is ALWAYS the voice that will trigger the name and recognition. Sometimes observing a person move, the way they walk, or gesture or move their head, will clue me. But the face just swims around and like I like to say, if you have different clothes on, you are a different person to me. Oh, and several times I failed to recognize my own current husband, if he had a wig on. Once it was in person when he sat at a table with me, and I was alarmingly wondering why is this person sitting here!?
Hey Ann! We have talked about this! Not recognising your ex is a really, really good one.
As is Stephen in a wig.
We definitely have the same thing. Faces are just a sea of.... nothing. It's all the other clues that have to come to the table (sometimes literally) before it becomes clear.
Regarding movies: my husband has prosopagnosia. He and I experience movies so differently because of this. If an actor is very very good, they will change their body language between roles, and my husband just won't recognize them! Meanwhile I am conflating all the many roles they have played into one in my head because I do recognize them. ;)
My husband vastly prefers cartoons so he can keep track of who is who in a show.
Yes! I'll spend a whole movie thinking how wonderful it is that the lead roles are played by unknown actors, only for my partner to tell me that was someone super famous with a wig on and a different accent. The end credits are always fascinating to me, as I recognize the names but can't place them to which character they played.
My thoughts? Perhaps Mr. Pitt, in some of his many award acceptance speeches could have said something along the lines of "I'd like to thank all the people who helped me get here today. You all know who you are, but I can't remember a single one of your faces because I have prosopagnosia. Google it." Maybe then there would be more awareness today.
p.s. I have the opposite condition. Remember faces, shit with names though.
So I feel like I can kind of relate but only in terms of seeing confused faces and dealing with the emotions of other people when they think they know me but I don’t know them.
I’m an identical twin living in a fairly small town but we work in very different jobs and roll in different social circles. I can’t tell you the number of times someone has come up to me with a big smile and “that look” only for me to awkwardly say “oh, do you know my sister ….”. And I still haven’t worked out how to handle it without both me feeling so awkward and sorry for putting them out and them feeling embarrassed and probably a bit pissed because I look exactly like their friend or acquaintance.
Twins! When I was teaching, we had two identical boys who would routinely change places and see how well they could bluff their respective ways through unfamiliar classes. They were pretty good at it.
As kids we were fiercely independent and one of us would always have short hair and the other long as we hated being ‘the twins’… even so on reflection it’s scary how many people would still get us mixed up.
oh wow, this would be a really tough thing to deal with, and it sure sounds like it is. Thanks so much for the clear descriptions of your experiences David! I will never assume I am being fobbed off again by anyone, will at least give them the chance to know we have met first. Coz - you never know......even Brad Pitt ay? Ann Hegarty, the Governess Chaser, also suffers from this condition - which Bradley Walsh found amazing at the time that it surfaced as a question on the quiz show. She knew the answer of course. She told Bradley - looking pointedly at him - that it was a shame she couldn't 'choose' to forget some people, lol. So - that is kind of amazing too - she can remember endless facts and figures - but not people's faces! It is definitely a thing - and you have my empathies, David. :-/
At age 69 I realised I had aphantasia thanks to that article from your friend. But throughout my life I’ve kind of had an opposite (and far less devastating) affliction to you. I seem to have a forgettable face. People I knew I had met before, in a social situation, when asked by a third person “have you two met ...” I would say yes and they would say no. So much so that I use the strategy of saying “I’m not sure” so when they said no, we would be reintroduced and I would be saved from humiliation. They can’t have all had face blindness. Can they?
This must be so challenging. I’m trying to picture what it must be like in your mind and it’s hard 🤯 I imagine all these blank spots where faces should be in the mental images. It reminds of reading about how some people think in words and are constantly narrating their life which is definitely me. I was surprised to learn that my husband does not think in this way and I just can’t imagine how that works! I can identify a little bit with the names part you mentioned. When watching a movie I never remember peoples names. I remember what they look like and who they are in relation to other people and what they do. My husband always remembers names. It’s all very, very interesting! I love this sort of stuff ♥️
Thank you for sharing! I studied neuroscience in college and remember struggling to comprehend what prosopagnosia must be like during a lecture on it. For anyone interested in learning more about it, neurologist Oliver Sacks wrote an incredible book called "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat."
Warning: Might be TL:DR.
I discovered a few months ago that I'm the lone outlier in a household of face blind people. It was a real, 'Wait, what?' moment.
Imagine this around the family dining table: My oldest was in her first term at high school and had just taken part in an outdoor-pursuits type day which was intended to be a form-class bonding thing. We were looking at some photos of the day which had been posted online and I pointed to the only adult in an image and said, 'So that's your form teacher, then?'
Daughter, squinting: 'Uhh, I guess? Maybe?'
Me: 'So you think that isn't her? Who else attended?'
Daughter: 'I dunno. I mean, it COULD be her...'
Me: 'Well, what does she look like?"
Daughter: ...
Nothing. Literally nothing. And I was trying to take in how it was possible to not be able to recall even BASIC stuff about somebody you saw every day, and I said; 'Can you not just visualise her?'
Husband: 'Hey, what are you talking about? You mean, like, SEE somebody's face in your mind?'
Me: 'Yes. Bingo.'
Husband: 'I can't do that.'
Son: 'I can't do that.'
I kinda didn't believe them. I said to the kids, 'But you know what Granddad looks like, right?'
'Sure,' they say.
'Okay, describe him.'
'Umm...he's tall.' 'And he wears glasses.'
And that was them done - for a person they've seen a couple of times a week for their whole lives.
Whereas, me? 'He's tall, and thin, and starting to be a little bit stooped, and yes he wears glasses, and he has white hair which falls over his forehead and quite a small nose for a guy and mad thick eyebrows and grey eyes and in-turned lips and one of those smiles that curves down rather than up and big teeth which are a bit jumbled and deep grooves down each side of his nose and...'
Husband: 'You really do have, like, a photo in your head you're working off, don't you?'
Me: 'Yep. What do you have?'
Husband: 'Um. A list, I guess. Just...facts I have to remember. And associate with a person. Along with their damn name and whose Dad they are...'
And the weirdest thing of all? The other three members of my household DON'T need to rotate maps or Lego instruction booklets so that they're oriented according to current reality - if they have an object or a road in front of them they can rotate stuff, even complex three-dimensional half-made models, in-their-heads. And I can't...
This reminds me of when I found out that everyone does not have a 'voice' in their head... I have ADHD, and so the 'voice' in my head literally never shuts up! I cannot imagine what fills people's brains if there is no voice there?!? I also have images in my brain, but usually only if I'm trying to remember something, or create something. Otherwise, it's non-stop chatter 🤪
Visual processing/visual reasoning is a whole different area of the brain from facial recognition. :) I'm also the lone non-proso in my family. My husband will describe someone's "soul mood" - he said it's like a permanent mood someone has. My husband's mom says there's almost an aura she sees of people and uses it to recognize others. It's fascinating. They are both non religious.
Your family's responses sound like what I'd give about people, but because of aphantasia, not face blindness. I can figure out something rotated but I'm holding facts in my head ("three cubes up, two to the right, one back from that," etc.)
My husband too, he has non-visual avatars or constructs of people and places. I don't get it, I have to see things haha
Far out. Although I have aphantasia I do recognise people when I see them and in photos, so I don’t have face blindness as such. But as I don’t have a picture in my head, I’d be pretty crap if asked to describe someone.
Dear David, wanting to comment on this finally forced my hand to subscribe, something I’ve been contemplating a while. I have mild prosopagnosia, faces out of context, even well known faces, are a problem for me. I was reading Dr Oliver Sacks Musicophillia where I first encountered the the term prosopagnosia, something Sacks suffered from. There must be a genetic element to it as my late Sister, Helen Kelly, also had some degree of it. Love your writing ❤️
Max - thanks for the support (really, it means a lot). Amazing that your sister had it, as well - and I think you're right. I just had a message from someone who's entire family has it!
PS book on order!
That's a fascinating book, eh?
Very much so.
All his books are equally fascinating as was he the man!
My memory is messed up in all kinds of ways at the moment: PTSD, being on the spectrum, menopause ... So it happens to me. I'm fairly awkward socially, but when I blank on people I should know, I wish the earth would open up and swallow me.
I'm also losing my words - I don't recognize them or I can't think of the word I want to use in conversation and I end up doing a kind of charades-type thing in the hope the people I'm talking to will know the word I'm reaching for. It makes me sad because words are my friends and I used to be really articulate.
I lose words at times, too - and I talk a lot. Brains are tricky. Talk to a GP about it too, to get the conversation rolling: A good idea to keep an eye on this stuff. Also, go easy on yourself! Life can be overwhelming at times and sometimes I reckon the brain just wants an old fashioned rest!
This touched me and I'm feeling a little empathic concern for you Nicky.
Losing our words. I too have experienced this somewhat over recent years. When prompted to describe it by a specialist I was refered to a couple of years ago (for constant headaches I was experiencing at increasing frequencies), I said "It's as if an invisible wall suddenly appears between my mind and my mouth in the middle of a sentence. It started off small and I could sort of slide or side-step around metaphorically, pick another word or get to the one I wanted from another direction. But now my brain just stops and I come up blank and stop mid-sentence, completely losing the thread." His response was that it may be a symptom of early onset dementia. I have been concerned since. Doessn't seem to have gotten any worse, maybe even improved. Perhaps the microdoses of antiepileptics that are successful for the headaches are helping. I don't get to practice direct vocal social intercourse much these days, and I do have to proof read every thing I write carefully for particular typining errorors. Less often than they used to but still happening. How does one judge their own mind's grip?
Well, my thoughts shared. If they rung any bells maybe share yours with your GP?
This happened when I had a stroke 4.5 years ago. It has improved but still happens when I am tired or in situations with lots of noise and movement. I am the silent person in the cafe, looking blankly at the wait staff asking what I want. Positive of covid - people don't expect me to meet them in cafes any more.
That will be aphasia, but I guess you know that. Have any of your health providers told you that sometimes the word that just won't come might appear if you sing your sentences? (Obviously you can't do that in just any context but with family etc it will work okay). Below is an info link for a choir composed of people with neurological disorders. I can attest they sing fluently.
https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2020/09/22/choir-help-people-with-neurological-conditions-recover-their-voice.html
I love your analogy of the wall between your mind and your mouth - that is exactly what it's like. Of course I don't love that you also experience this. I will check it out with my GP.
I really hope that early onset dementia isn't in your future. x
I too have been losing my words. My loss of words coincided with having Covid though, along with bouts of nausea and dizziness. Its been 6 months and it is all still present. I am curious if anyone has had a similar experience. It seems like the long term effects range greatly.
Long covid is something I wish the general public would not forget, as they get looser and looser with the idea of having it.
Thinking if you. A number of friends with this, and it's tough.
It must be so blimmin frustrating for you, and it is for me too, that a lot of people have forgotten that Covid is still actually a *thing*. Today, Katherine Ryan of RNZ National's '9 to noon' show said "...post covid..." when discussing this current time, like, now - May of 2023! AAaaaghh!!!!
Kia kaha, stay safe :)
Aw no - you poor thing. I've had Covid and I think that's definitely added to the memory thing. I do know a couple of people who have your symptoms and it's not been easy for them so I can imagine it must also be rough for you. Go easy and take care.
Ughhh I'm losing my words, too. I've always been forgetful but it's been getting worse the last 5 years or so
I do feel some of this has to do with fatigue / Covid / information overload. Life is a lot right now, right?
Abso-frickin-lutely. And I forgot to mention I've had Covid - so I think my brain has actually nabbed one of those cheap deals for a week in Rarotonga. It's taking some annual leave.
Some science says age 50 is a benchmark for forgetting names of things and people plus COVID brain is a real thing. I struggled to form sentences after having it, words were blocked. Quite unsettling.
Frustrating huh. I sometimes think my brain is deleting some info in order to fit all this new crazy stuff that's happening out there. Maybe check it out with your GP. Take care ok.
But I mean it wouldn't be so terrible watching the two of you stumble around offending people by forgetting who they are. I'd watch that. I have the opposite where I remember most faces and names. I was incredible at it when I was young. I'm not as good at it now, which bums me out, but I still remember most people. Especially the assholes. I wouldn't mind forgetting them.
Maybe it can be a new Netflix show. I'll pitch it next week.
YES. Holy hell would I watch that. The beginning of every episode should be you two not recognizing each other.
Same same.
Elephant memory for people, names, and faces here.
But! I’ve discovered an odd thing. Sometimes it feels like my brain has registered so so so many possible facial feature combinations over my life that I think I should be able to recognise strangers. So now when I’m walking down a street and I see a person I don’t know, but whose features feel familiar, I freak out a little and my brain scrambles trying to place this stranger.
Brains are weird.
I waved at my old PE teacher once, and wondered why he gave me a cold "here we go again" nod and rode away on his bike.
Realised afterwards it was actually Matthew Ridge.
Welp, at least it was a face I recognised 😆
Yikes! he could've at least given you, even as a complete stranger, a friendly wave & smile back! or maybe his bike was giving him some serious saddle sore!!! ;-)
Hey frie---oh no.
I'm really good with faces and names also. The weirdest thing is that I at times I act as other people's memory bank for these things. So a sample conversation with my Mum might go like this:
Mum: You remember Liddy's niece, the one who went to live in Australia?
(Spoiler: I do not. I have never met Liddy's niece, and in fact only met Liddy herself once.)
Mum: Darn, what was her name? You know the one, she went out with that boy, ugh, you know, with the hair, the one that lived up such and such a road...
Me: You mean Craig. Craig Hallett.
Mum: Yes! She went out with him for, like a year or so - now what was her name?
Me: Davina.
Mum: That's right! Davina! Well, she had triplets last week! How about that?
How about that. It's a real soap opera inside my head, I tell you. I just can't forget this stuff...
Yes!! My dad basically calls it a party trick of mine.
Me too. I remember everything. Also phone numbers, birthdays, how and when we met even when the poor people don't remember me and my awful social awkwardness means I often misread and continue to insist we've met and give details long after it's comfortable for anyone. When I do realise, it's socially awful.
Lol! totally the opposite for me - can't recall any of the soap opery stuff of my friends & family's lives! Sooo frustrating coz they think it's coz i'm not interested. But I AM tho, super nosey is me Lol!
Wow David, I just experienced a real lightbulb moment. I think my partner may have this. In our many years together I have watched him struggle to remember faces and names so many times. I have seen the complete flash of blankness and then concentration on his face as someone greets him who he does know, and he knows he knows (if that makes sense). People have said he’s arrogant and rude because of his struggles in this regard, and claim that he “just couldn’t be bothered” or “doesn’t care about people”. That isn’t the case at all.
I’m off to do some reading about this condition. Thanks for talking about it.
Glad this may have brought a little revelation to the table! Glad. Really.
Fair warning, I have never met a doctor for whom I have not been the sole source of information on prosopagnosia. Do your research, and keep it orderly; you are going to have to share it with your doc!
So easily solved by putting a QR code on everyones forehead, but I never get traction with this idea
Mark the beast!
Face recognition technology would be great - an app on your phone - but although people want to be recognised and greeted by name, most are also antagonistic to such technology. Hmmm - perhaps an implanted chip that they can't see you using....
This will solve so much anxiety, let's do it.
Take a photo with the person and see if your phone can figure it out
Again, ha ha ha ha ha!!!
I think the big take away from this is we all process things differently but are also all locked into our own experiences. I guess this explains why conspiracy theories make complete sense to some people but not to others and vice versa. If only we could all allow others to experience the world in their own way and stop trying to force everyone to think the same way as us. Thanks for sharing, now I understand more about this condition it will make me more understanding of other people. I did meet a woman with this once who told me she wouldn't remember me if we met again and I said 'cool it will be like meeting for the first time then'. I guess she found it easier to warn people so she didn't offend them
Yes, I experience this from time to time, but it might be because I’m on the autism spectrum. I work part-time at an independent record store, so I see the same customers pretty much every week. Sometimes I remember their faces, sometimes not. Sometimes I remember their names (if they don’t come in regularly), sometimes not. I’ve learned to accept that I’m never going to remember everyone who walks in the door, but there have been some stressful, awkward situations, for sure.
I have had a few people on the autism spectrum right to me with similar thoughts. I worked in a bank (a teller, ha!) when I left school and hoo boy, was that hard. Customers like to be recognised.
That is fascinating - my 16yo is autistic and she and I often get into weird discussions about her information retention of stuff I’d always considered just a given. She describes her memory for faces and names as *slippery* - she needs context and reference points to hold on to information. Since she was little she writes these amazing detailed character descriptions in the notes app on her phone about her friends - and I just thought it was a quirk. Who they are, what they look like (usually with a slightly jarring comparison to an animal whose mannerisms they mimic) and what they like to talk about. Now I’m wondering if she’s just trying to mask what David has described?
I also need context and reference points if I’m going to remember anyone if I run into them again, just like your daughter. And *slippery* is an excellent way to describe it.
My husband has this ongoing fear that he'll run into a parent of one of our kids' friends on the train, or at the supermarket, and offend them by walking right by. He needs the context of them being with their kids to jog his memory...
I mean one of our kids friends PARENTS obviously. Like the kids would care...
Prosopagnosia is considered an autism spectrum disorder, meaning you likely won't find it outside of autism, short of injury.
Autism is hard to diagnose right now but when we are more widely able to look at our brains' axons (the nerve connections) during fetal development we may find out why some people with autism don't have face blindness. I'm looking forward to the neuroscience growing knowledge in this aspect.
My partner has this. Last year, I was heading to a night shift at the same time he finished work for the day. His office is on the way to my work so I walk past it.
He happened to walk out the door when I was about 50-100m away. I smiled and made eye contact and waited for him to see me... Nothing. He blanked me until we were about a metre away from each other 😅
We've known each other 15 years and been together for 8, but because he didn't know I was working that night I was a surprise and he didn't have a clue.
I found the whole thing funny, but I know it's much more of a struggle when it happens with people who don't know him as well as me.
I think we must have talked about this before, because I have known a long time this is an issue for me. The two most famous incidents in my life are not recognizing my ex-husband and asking who an actor was on TV that I really enjoyed (it was Carey Grant). I am pretty sure if I know a person really well, I won't usually be lost or make a mistake, unless it has been a while since I saw the person (I.e. the ex). But if someone isn't a family member, or a close friend, or someone with a distinctive look (like you David) it's good odds there will be a gap of recognition where I hope against hope I can talk with a person for a few minutes and it is ALWAYS the voice that will trigger the name and recognition. Sometimes observing a person move, the way they walk, or gesture or move their head, will clue me. But the face just swims around and like I like to say, if you have different clothes on, you are a different person to me. Oh, and several times I failed to recognize my own current husband, if he had a wig on. Once it was in person when he sat at a table with me, and I was alarmingly wondering why is this person sitting here!?
Hey Ann! We have talked about this! Not recognising your ex is a really, really good one.
As is Stephen in a wig.
We definitely have the same thing. Faces are just a sea of.... nothing. It's all the other clues that have to come to the table (sometimes literally) before it becomes clear.
Regarding movies: my husband has prosopagnosia. He and I experience movies so differently because of this. If an actor is very very good, they will change their body language between roles, and my husband just won't recognize them! Meanwhile I am conflating all the many roles they have played into one in my head because I do recognize them. ;)
My husband vastly prefers cartoons so he can keep track of who is who in a show.
Yes! I'll spend a whole movie thinking how wonderful it is that the lead roles are played by unknown actors, only for my partner to tell me that was someone super famous with a wig on and a different accent. The end credits are always fascinating to me, as I recognize the names but can't place them to which character they played.
First time I've heard of it in my 63 years.
My thoughts? Perhaps Mr. Pitt, in some of his many award acceptance speeches could have said something along the lines of "I'd like to thank all the people who helped me get here today. You all know who you are, but I can't remember a single one of your faces because I have prosopagnosia. Google it." Maybe then there would be more awareness today.
p.s. I have the opposite condition. Remember faces, shit with names though.
Best awards acceptance speech ever!
So I feel like I can kind of relate but only in terms of seeing confused faces and dealing with the emotions of other people when they think they know me but I don’t know them.
I’m an identical twin living in a fairly small town but we work in very different jobs and roll in different social circles. I can’t tell you the number of times someone has come up to me with a big smile and “that look” only for me to awkwardly say “oh, do you know my sister ….”. And I still haven’t worked out how to handle it without both me feeling so awkward and sorry for putting them out and them feeling embarrassed and probably a bit pissed because I look exactly like their friend or acquaintance.
Twins! When I was teaching, we had two identical boys who would routinely change places and see how well they could bluff their respective ways through unfamiliar classes. They were pretty good at it.
As kids we were fiercely independent and one of us would always have short hair and the other long as we hated being ‘the twins’… even so on reflection it’s scary how many people would still get us mixed up.
oh wow, this would be a really tough thing to deal with, and it sure sounds like it is. Thanks so much for the clear descriptions of your experiences David! I will never assume I am being fobbed off again by anyone, will at least give them the chance to know we have met first. Coz - you never know......even Brad Pitt ay? Ann Hegarty, the Governess Chaser, also suffers from this condition - which Bradley Walsh found amazing at the time that it surfaced as a question on the quiz show. She knew the answer of course. She told Bradley - looking pointedly at him - that it was a shame she couldn't 'choose' to forget some people, lol. So - that is kind of amazing too - she can remember endless facts and figures - but not people's faces! It is definitely a thing - and you have my empathies, David. :-/
actually - typo alert - that's Ann Hegarty......
Cue my periodic public service announcement that the *EDIT* function for posts is hidden in the ... below every post.
Do you know where the hidden function which tells Substack to remember comment order Chronological is? :)
ah, thank you kindly :-)
At age 69 I realised I had aphantasia thanks to that article from your friend. But throughout my life I’ve kind of had an opposite (and far less devastating) affliction to you. I seem to have a forgettable face. People I knew I had met before, in a social situation, when asked by a third person “have you two met ...” I would say yes and they would say no. So much so that I use the strategy of saying “I’m not sure” so when they said no, we would be reintroduced and I would be saved from humiliation. They can’t have all had face blindness. Can they?
Hahahha, you sound like my friend Nicole who has a similar complaint. You would be an EXCELLENT spy, as Neil noted below.
Also - really glad a Webworm newsletter could spark a revelation about yourself. That's awesome. Kate is a great writer.
Yes thanks it was a great article. Went thru a bit of a grieving period. “You see ‘movies’ in your head when you read?” Etc.
You should've been a spy!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This must be so challenging. I’m trying to picture what it must be like in your mind and it’s hard 🤯 I imagine all these blank spots where faces should be in the mental images. It reminds of reading about how some people think in words and are constantly narrating their life which is definitely me. I was surprised to learn that my husband does not think in this way and I just can’t imagine how that works! I can identify a little bit with the names part you mentioned. When watching a movie I never remember peoples names. I remember what they look like and who they are in relation to other people and what they do. My husband always remembers names. It’s all very, very interesting! I love this sort of stuff ♥️
Thank you for sharing! I studied neuroscience in college and remember struggling to comprehend what prosopagnosia must be like during a lecture on it. For anyone interested in learning more about it, neurologist Oliver Sacks wrote an incredible book called "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat."
Ordered.
Came on to refer people to the same book Sammy - love it!