It's not personal, I dont think. Enemy would just be the devil's work to their "God's work". Truly I say to you ... if that is God's work then I most definitely want to be in the company of the devil.
That's the go to reply for these types..... Satan testing them a little bit. They forgot to look in the mirror where they will see.... *cue Rolling Stones Rif...... *
There might be something to the trope of the only good leader is the one who does not want to lead. Anyone who desires this kind of power over others is almost certainly going to abuse it.
As evidenced by our current prime minister in NZ. Of course she’s not perfect, she’d be the first to admit that, however she did decline the hot seat half a dozen times before she was arm wrestled into it. Maybe there was some sense to the McGillicudy concept of their political candidates playing pass the parcel to decide which loser stood for parliament.
The "any high achiever, unfortunately, by their own sheer giftings and drive, will run over a few people along the way" is quite revealing of the way these churches think about people. You've mentioned before in writing about Arise how some people were determined to be more "valuable" than others - this quote reveals that same attitude, that the "valuable" high achievers might "run over" a few "less valuable people" along the way but it's OK bc they're being lead by God.
What an absolute copout, but we already know this from the way these churches utilise "God" as a reason to justify anything (or almost anything, except apparently adultery). It's revealing that they think of people in categories such as "high achiever/worthy" and "unworthy/able to be run over".
It's also a disservice to the many thousands of high achievers who manage to achieve great things w/o "running over a few people along the way".
God is such a convenient excuse for these people and it's absolutely abhorrent. This sort of thing, posting videos like this then deleting is a prime example of what people like Peter Mortlock do when they are scared, when their Jesus-grifting is being called out and challenged, and they are fearful that for them too, their comfortable life living prosperously off the 10% tithes they have manipulated their congregations into giving is in jeopardy.
Thanks. I think it's sort of amazing to have this unfolding in realtime - all the stereotypes of megachurches just playing out - including them all coming to each others rescue, re-contextualising who the victims are. And this whole narrative about an "attack on the church".
No, it's not an attack on the church - it's an attack on abusive men.
Disreproach? There's a new one. The bloody man can't even speak English. Disrepute, numbwit!
Did they run off with the church's money? Well, while doing God's business they apparently acquired $6,000,000 in assets. More than Jesus managed.
And what is a "sheer gifting" when it's at home? I haven't read about lots of gifts being spread around!
"They've sincerely apologised for being extreme" - Freudian slip anyone?
Oh great. What it takes is a "thicker skin to outlive [your] critics". Don't bother changing, guys. Just wait until the news cycle moves on to something else and then everything can go back to the way it was.
And these Biblical characters were sent a screenshot? Who writes this stuff? What an addlepate this man is. Do people take him seriously? How can these people hoodwink so many presumably intelligent people.
We have some real problems with our society that this stuff is happening.
They're just not Christian. We aren't expected to be perfect of course... but oh Lord... we don't discount or disregard the people that get hurt. How far away from the teaching of Jesus is this guy going to get before his people wake up...
"Interns broken, souls crushed" . . . their idea of "running a few people over on the way" is pretty horrific. And mayyyybe if it were the odd incident a half decade ago, you could think about forgiveness. But it's not. It's an ongoing horror show, and there is no repentance, no acknowledgement, which is part of the forgiveness playbook. You don't forgive and forget when the sins against you are rug-swept and glossed over, and abusers allowed to just continue abusing.
It's the way they try scramble to take hold of the narrative to say its pre 2016... does NZ have a statute of limitations.. because even then then they are still accountable pre 2016 or not.. never mind the fact that it is currently happening... but also from what youve reported.. it takes years for people to realise the abuse and leave (for good) so some of the victims are probably still coming to terms with what they are experiencing let alone act on it.. so, most definitely still going on im sure.
It gets me how these guys all think that all they have to do is admit some degree of fallibility in the past, say they have learned from it and are no longer doing these things, and then they can get in with business as usual. Not only do they try to turn themselves into the victim, but they also seek to amplify themselves as a leader by admitting they’ve been less than perfect. It’s as if they are saying that nobody else is big enough to admit shortcomings, so because they have made these admissions (which are usually nowhere near the full extent of the problem /crime and are only ever made after it has been raised by someone else) then this is even more proof of their right to lead. What they never address though is: how come they managed to do things wrong in the first place? Back then they were standing in front of people saying some version of “I understand what god wants and he has appointed me to explain it all to you” - so was the leader lying back then or has god changed his mind in the meantime?
And also this "admitting they've been less than perfect in the past" only ever happens as a result of someone else bringing up the shit behaviour, it's never something they'd do otherwise. Just tactical ways to dodge allegations by trying to shove it all into a "that was in the past" box
Holy weasel words Batman! I couldn't bear to watch the whole video, it was far too much for my wairua tapu. It's been fascinating watching this whole sorry saga unraveling since you first began the series David. I only hope it serves to open some shut minds to the danger of rich white men going feral in institutions like this one. By the way as an antidote to his bile your post on the video was the best! Kia kaha
As a devoted follower of Christ for over half a century, and currently at Arise church I take my hat off to you for being honest and brave. Jesus was honest. It’s so sad tho. And so sad that it took outside actions to snap Arise senior leadership into the reality that they MUST take these things very seriously. So glad I’m here to be a support and stable influence in our local community of Arise Church (Kapiti).
I listened to the apology from John and Gillian as well as the sermon from Leo Hanssen on YouTube. I was disappointed with both and disgusted by the message Hanssen delivered. I felt he completely brushed over and dismissed the harm and abuse that has occurred.
David has linked to Wade Mullen's blog post "What I’ve Observed When Institutions Try to Apologize and How They Can Do Better" previously.
As an outsider listening in, both the apology and sermon felt like they hit many of the 'inauthentic apology' markers outlined on Mullen's blog.
Listening to the service did not give me great hope for change. Following the service would you say there is a genuine desire for change within the Arise congregation as a whole or even just within the Kapiti campus?
Thanks Ruth. People here, including our young pastors, are very much in shock. We will have to wait and see. But general feeling from those I’ve talked with is that if things need changing, yes let it happen. This does not affect our Kapiti group so much (accept for our pastors who had two days a week contact at the Wellington church offices, Petone) as we are our own entity. This church was a church years before asking Arise to ‘take over’ and inject new life.
But I know the pastors planting the Auckland church are very stable and will probably come out better. Also a long time congregation member at Arise Central, Wellington who is very shocked on hearing of all the houses owned, and lavish spending, of John, says she will stay because she knows and trusts Nathan Chambers who is taking over there.
I am hopeful of change. There are good leaders in place.
Regarding John Cameron, I don’t he think was putting on a show in his talk. I believe he was genuine, but understand why people are sceptical. But only time will prove that. 🤷♀️🙏
Ps. I too read the insightful article on Apologising. Also, I wasn’t super impressed with the preacher Hansen either. I think he could’ve done better. I wonder if he maybe didn’t believed the stuff coming out. But mainly I think he was wanting to help everyone keep calm in the storm and not panic.
Yes Yes YES I am absolutely waiting on the edge of my seat for this, followed by Destiny Church. It's also significant (in how worried these megachurch Pharisees are) that the Charities Commission is looking into them, and changes are in the wind with regards how assets are accumulated by charitable groups. Better sell those flash cars quick, boys.
Disclaimer - I'm a Christian with very progressive views that would likely see me treated much as they are treating you David, not least because I see their hypocrisy and can identify theologically where they are way off beam. It's good to see the will of God "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay" being served on some of these holier than thou Pharisees who have left a trail of broken people behind them, victims who thought they were entering a safe place of worship.
How fitting it is, that this will should be visited upon these Pharisees' gilded heads by one of the people, a good bloke who was led to listen to and advocate for the victims.
Sure, occasionally there is some good done by those who preach of God and even build great churches that enrich the congregations faith journeys, but great is the fall of those who corrupt and debase God's church by their perverse actions and their selfish desires.
These arrogant egotistical "pastors" have repeatedly broken several important commandments eg thou shalt not: bear false witness (lie, cover up wrongdoing), steal (misappropriate tithes to their own pockets), covet thy neighbours wife (hounding interns/staff, with your truncheon out!), take the Lord's name in vain (normally thought to mean swearing, but can also mean, to use the Lord's name incorrectly - as an excuse for your crap decisions), or put the Lord your God to the test (normally, means don't leap off tall buildings and expect God to save your sorry ass, but can also mean don't use God as a weapon, don't EVER try to force God to act under your command, eg don't threaten people that God will wreak horrible revenge on them because they crossed you/showed you up to be a liar/ showed you up to be insane/ told you the earth was billions of years old)...
Jaysus, the never-ending delusion self-justification cop-out of "god's hand". He seems to conveniently forget that we could extend the same to you David, that it was "God's hand" in your work that did smite these people down
Ah yes, the three great enemies of the righteous soul; the devil, the taxman, the webworms
Weird to be called an enemy through all of this. For just calling out abuse.
What a world.
Perhaps they're a bit nervous about their business model being brought into question?
The millions in real estate they seem to all have gained. Didn't Jesus say to build treasure in heaven ?
I think there will be many many people quietly appreciating your work David.
It's not personal, I dont think. Enemy would just be the devil's work to their "God's work". Truly I say to you ... if that is God's work then I most definitely want to be in the company of the devil.
That's the go to reply for these types..... Satan testing them a little bit. They forgot to look in the mirror where they will see.... *cue Rolling Stones Rif...... *
🍒🍒🍒 vs 💀💀💀
Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
TRUTH.
There might be something to the trope of the only good leader is the one who does not want to lead. Anyone who desires this kind of power over others is almost certainly going to abuse it.
You are bang on.
As evidenced by our current prime minister in NZ. Of course she’s not perfect, she’d be the first to admit that, however she did decline the hot seat half a dozen times before she was arm wrestled into it. Maybe there was some sense to the McGillicudy concept of their political candidates playing pass the parcel to decide which loser stood for parliament.
The "any high achiever, unfortunately, by their own sheer giftings and drive, will run over a few people along the way" is quite revealing of the way these churches think about people. You've mentioned before in writing about Arise how some people were determined to be more "valuable" than others - this quote reveals that same attitude, that the "valuable" high achievers might "run over" a few "less valuable people" along the way but it's OK bc they're being lead by God.
What an absolute copout, but we already know this from the way these churches utilise "God" as a reason to justify anything (or almost anything, except apparently adultery). It's revealing that they think of people in categories such as "high achiever/worthy" and "unworthy/able to be run over".
It's also a disservice to the many thousands of high achievers who manage to achieve great things w/o "running over a few people along the way".
God is such a convenient excuse for these people and it's absolutely abhorrent. This sort of thing, posting videos like this then deleting is a prime example of what people like Peter Mortlock do when they are scared, when their Jesus-grifting is being called out and challenged, and they are fearful that for them too, their comfortable life living prosperously off the 10% tithes they have manipulated their congregations into giving is in jeopardy.
You're making a difference David.
Thanks. I think it's sort of amazing to have this unfolding in realtime - all the stereotypes of megachurches just playing out - including them all coming to each others rescue, re-contextualising who the victims are. And this whole narrative about an "attack on the church".
No, it's not an attack on the church - it's an attack on abusive men.
Disreproach? There's a new one. The bloody man can't even speak English. Disrepute, numbwit!
Did they run off with the church's money? Well, while doing God's business they apparently acquired $6,000,000 in assets. More than Jesus managed.
And what is a "sheer gifting" when it's at home? I haven't read about lots of gifts being spread around!
"They've sincerely apologised for being extreme" - Freudian slip anyone?
Oh great. What it takes is a "thicker skin to outlive [your] critics". Don't bother changing, guys. Just wait until the news cycle moves on to something else and then everything can go back to the way it was.
And these Biblical characters were sent a screenshot? Who writes this stuff? What an addlepate this man is. Do people take him seriously? How can these people hoodwink so many presumably intelligent people.
We have some real problems with our society that this stuff is happening.
I *thought he said screenshot when talking about biblical folk - ha! Hilarious... If it wasn't so bleakly awful
Bleakly awful is a really good phrase for that video.
They're just not Christian. We aren't expected to be perfect of course... but oh Lord... we don't discount or disregard the people that get hurt. How far away from the teaching of Jesus is this guy going to get before his people wake up...
Tim - you're right. They are not Christian.
That's the thing: If anyone is going to hell - it's Mortlock.
Not perfect unless you're a pastor like them. They are completely perfect and totally godlike. And rich AF. And did they mention perfect?
Actually maybe not perfect but always 100% totally blameless
Awesome 👏🏽 mahi & reporting David!
Peter Mortlock is a snake & cracked me up in his wholehearted support for Brian & Murray . . . . It says it all . . . . Bunch of fuckwits
Thanks Leon. I was not going to write a newsletter this weekend, but I watched that last night - sat on it, and decided what else could I do.
This stuff has to be documented in some way. These people can't just carry on like this.
"Interns broken, souls crushed" . . . their idea of "running a few people over on the way" is pretty horrific. And mayyyybe if it were the odd incident a half decade ago, you could think about forgiveness. But it's not. It's an ongoing horror show, and there is no repentance, no acknowledgement, which is part of the forgiveness playbook. You don't forgive and forget when the sins against you are rug-swept and glossed over, and abusers allowed to just continue abusing.
It's ongoing alright. This whole narrative of it all being pre-2016 is such a bald lie.
Horrific.
It's the way they try scramble to take hold of the narrative to say its pre 2016... does NZ have a statute of limitations.. because even then then they are still accountable pre 2016 or not.. never mind the fact that it is currently happening... but also from what youve reported.. it takes years for people to realise the abuse and leave (for good) so some of the victims are probably still coming to terms with what they are experiencing let alone act on it.. so, most definitely still going on im sure.
Any update with the Pathfinder review?
It gets me how these guys all think that all they have to do is admit some degree of fallibility in the past, say they have learned from it and are no longer doing these things, and then they can get in with business as usual. Not only do they try to turn themselves into the victim, but they also seek to amplify themselves as a leader by admitting they’ve been less than perfect. It’s as if they are saying that nobody else is big enough to admit shortcomings, so because they have made these admissions (which are usually nowhere near the full extent of the problem /crime and are only ever made after it has been raised by someone else) then this is even more proof of their right to lead. What they never address though is: how come they managed to do things wrong in the first place? Back then they were standing in front of people saying some version of “I understand what god wants and he has appointed me to explain it all to you” - so was the leader lying back then or has god changed his mind in the meantime?
This. So much this. Not sure if you caught this in an earlier piece, but I really like the points it goes through, and echoes your points: https://wademullen.substack.com/p/what-ive-observed-when-institutions
And also this "admitting they've been less than perfect in the past" only ever happens as a result of someone else bringing up the shit behaviour, it's never something they'd do otherwise. Just tactical ways to dodge allegations by trying to shove it all into a "that was in the past" box
Holy weasel words Batman! I couldn't bear to watch the whole video, it was far too much for my wairua tapu. It's been fascinating watching this whole sorry saga unraveling since you first began the series David. I only hope it serves to open some shut minds to the danger of rich white men going feral in institutions like this one. By the way as an antidote to his bile your post on the video was the best! Kia kaha
I hear you. I found it hard too, and when I did I just felt mad. And sad.
But I wanted to save it, because you can't put that out into the world and then pretend it never happened.
Mortlock is an utter POS and that needs to stand for the record.
As a devoted follower of Christ for over half a century, and currently at Arise church I take my hat off to you for being honest and brave. Jesus was honest. It’s so sad tho. And so sad that it took outside actions to snap Arise senior leadership into the reality that they MUST take these things very seriously. So glad I’m here to be a support and stable influence in our local community of Arise Church (Kapiti).
Kia ora Jenny,
I listened to the apology from John and Gillian as well as the sermon from Leo Hanssen on YouTube. I was disappointed with both and disgusted by the message Hanssen delivered. I felt he completely brushed over and dismissed the harm and abuse that has occurred.
David has linked to Wade Mullen's blog post "What I’ve Observed When Institutions Try to Apologize and How They Can Do Better" previously.
As an outsider listening in, both the apology and sermon felt like they hit many of the 'inauthentic apology' markers outlined on Mullen's blog.
Listening to the service did not give me great hope for change. Following the service would you say there is a genuine desire for change within the Arise congregation as a whole or even just within the Kapiti campus?
Thanks Ruth. People here, including our young pastors, are very much in shock. We will have to wait and see. But general feeling from those I’ve talked with is that if things need changing, yes let it happen. This does not affect our Kapiti group so much (accept for our pastors who had two days a week contact at the Wellington church offices, Petone) as we are our own entity. This church was a church years before asking Arise to ‘take over’ and inject new life.
But I know the pastors planting the Auckland church are very stable and will probably come out better. Also a long time congregation member at Arise Central, Wellington who is very shocked on hearing of all the houses owned, and lavish spending, of John, says she will stay because she knows and trusts Nathan Chambers who is taking over there.
I am hopeful of change. There are good leaders in place.
Regarding John Cameron, I don’t he think was putting on a show in his talk. I believe he was genuine, but understand why people are sceptical. But only time will prove that. 🤷♀️🙏
Ps. I too read the insightful article on Apologising. Also, I wasn’t super impressed with the preacher Hansen either. I think he could’ve done better. I wonder if he maybe didn’t believed the stuff coming out. But mainly I think he was wanting to help everyone keep calm in the storm and not panic.
I wonder what an investigation into City Impact would uncover. I wouldn't be surprised to find much the same as what has come out about Arise.
You're not entirely wrong. Stay tuned.
They took over $1m in government financial support during the big lockdown in 2020 - I’d like to hear more about that (and they don’t pay tax).
Grifters. Simple as that.
(I wrote about them dipping into Covid funds way back when - in passing though, not a big piece).
Yes Yes YES I am absolutely waiting on the edge of my seat for this, followed by Destiny Church. It's also significant (in how worried these megachurch Pharisees are) that the Charities Commission is looking into them, and changes are in the wind with regards how assets are accumulated by charitable groups. Better sell those flash cars quick, boys.
Disclaimer - I'm a Christian with very progressive views that would likely see me treated much as they are treating you David, not least because I see their hypocrisy and can identify theologically where they are way off beam. It's good to see the will of God "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay" being served on some of these holier than thou Pharisees who have left a trail of broken people behind them, victims who thought they were entering a safe place of worship.
How fitting it is, that this will should be visited upon these Pharisees' gilded heads by one of the people, a good bloke who was led to listen to and advocate for the victims.
Sure, occasionally there is some good done by those who preach of God and even build great churches that enrich the congregations faith journeys, but great is the fall of those who corrupt and debase God's church by their perverse actions and their selfish desires.
These arrogant egotistical "pastors" have repeatedly broken several important commandments eg thou shalt not: bear false witness (lie, cover up wrongdoing), steal (misappropriate tithes to their own pockets), covet thy neighbours wife (hounding interns/staff, with your truncheon out!), take the Lord's name in vain (normally thought to mean swearing, but can also mean, to use the Lord's name incorrectly - as an excuse for your crap decisions), or put the Lord your God to the test (normally, means don't leap off tall buildings and expect God to save your sorry ass, but can also mean don't use God as a weapon, don't EVER try to force God to act under your command, eg don't threaten people that God will wreak horrible revenge on them because they crossed you/showed you up to be a liar/ showed you up to be insane/ told you the earth was billions of years old)...
It's so nice to have a Christian in the mix here (there are plenty at Webworm, actually!) who are not deranged.
The opposite.
Thank you.
Jaysus, the never-ending delusion self-justification cop-out of "god's hand". He seems to conveniently forget that we could extend the same to you David, that it was "God's hand" in your work that did smite these people down
Thanks, Lynette.
Yeah - his use of God in all this is very un-Jesus like.
I was so pleased to see AJ’s piece this morning.
“Any high achiever, unfortunately, by their sheer grifting and drive, run over a few people along the way”
Fixed it
I initially misread that as ‘sheer griftings’, which was amusing.