I am an autistic parent to an autistic kid, and I vowed never to listen to the telepathy tapes because I think it would make me so angry and sad. I understand the desperation of the parents, all they want to do is communicate with their kids, but the need to prove them telepaths also reeks of ableism. "Oh no, they're not disabled, they're just more evolved!" etc. Those poor kids. I wonder if they're getting the accomodations they really need, but it's always the parents of 'indigo children's or 'starseeds' or perhaps 'telepaths' who are so desperate to erase disability that they don't accomodate for it, in my experience. Even my parents and in-laws were so resistant when we suspected my kid of being autistic. "Why do you want to label him?" "He's just boisterous." "Why do you want him to be autistic?" They're so desperate to erase the 'bad' label. But being autistic is not a failing, and parents are not failures for having autistic kids. Society seems determined to say that it is and we are, though. Maybe the parents are trying to shed that perception, a bit.
I really worry for the knock on effect this is going to have for autistic kids and high support needs autistic people. Can't perform this new ability everyone expects you to have? Will you be discarded on a heap of 'broken' autistic people like so many before us?
I hope all of that makes sense. This whole thing just stirred up a lot of feelings 💖
It reminds me of a theory where autistic kids have been considered supernatural before - the stories of changelings. Where kids would be swapped out with a Fae creature that looked and sounded like them, but wasn't *really* human, around the age of 4 or 5 (when autism starts to become more apparent).
I think you hit the nail on the head, Ro. I was thinking along similar lines, but you said it so much better than I could have. It really does seem like people are desperate to swap the "bad" label of being autistic into a "Good and Special" label. And it's understandable, nobody wants to live with the stigma being any flavor of neurodivergent and they don't want their kids to live with it. But trying to make autistic kids into something extraordinary or supernatural or magical when they are absolutely just not... is just going to cause so much more damage.
My nonverbal autistic niece doesn’t want to be perceived as magical or angelic. She needs support, resources and acceptance. The telepathic children lore reminded me of the “Magical Negro” trope whose mystical powers and mere existence serve only to enlighten and help make (white) people “better.” It makes my sister in law cringe every time someone elevates her daughter and gushes about her special or even “divine” purpose. She is a human in her own right, deserving of her own story.
It's so human to try and categorise and box everything up neatly. Why can't we just accept that EVERYONE exists on a spectrum and there's only ever going to be a handful of people that fit into the: "perfect human" box 🥺
Seems to me, the more we try to rationalise everyone's quirks (for want of a better word) the more we damage everyone's opportunity to live their lives 🤔?
I know what you mean here Paula, but I think you're inadvertently rubbishing the idea that people should get diagnoses. A diagnosis can be the difference between a child being accommodated at school and being able to learn and not. Diagnosis opens up options. It's not rationalisation or putting people in boxes, it's accepting and naming why people struggle to operate in the world as "normal" people do.
They aren't quirks, and labelling them as that can be genuinely damaging and patronising. I know you don't mean it that way, but unfortunately that's how it's coming across.
I'm trying to figure out what you mean here - do you mean 'everyone is on the autism spectrum' and that we shouldn't be giving people diagnoses? /Genuine
Fellow autistic and disability service worker here. THIS THIS THIS THIS. I worked as a para last year for someone whose mom wanted me to practice facilitated communication with her and it was truly disturbing. I'm sympathetic to the parental anxiety around the very real issues that face disabled kids, especially as they age out of school-related supports. We want to make sure our loved ones are okay when we're gone. But localizing all that fear and angst in the autistic/disabled person themselves -- making sure they're ability to advocate and thrive is no less than super-human -- is so damaging. It's unrealistic expectations at best and straight up denial of the kid you DO have (who is worthy of just as much love and reverence) at worst. When a class of person becomes a vessel for the world's most fanatical hopes and desperate dreams, they're at real risk of being exploited, neglected and abused.
100% this. Parents of disabled children and adults can inadvertently be the most ableist. Not out of malice, but out of a desire for their child to be "normal" and in mainstream society.
What we really need to do is make society more accessible and accommodating, not giving disabled people this label of "superpowers" to try and negate the disability.
It gets me fired up, too. One thing I regret not telling the parent who was pushing FC on her (very much adult) child was “You’ve tried intervention after intervention after intervention for 20+ years. Have you ever tried letting her be autistic?”
We don’t need to change, we need to be able to be exactly how we are.
Oh, she would've been very defensive and probably blown up in your face. There's a certain age of parent who have very predictable responses to a diagnosis of anything, but particularly autism or learning disabilities.
I know, I didn’t say it for a reason. She was also going through a lot of personal stuff and I didn’t want to be rude. But man I just hope her daughter is okay.
Thank you for sharing this. Beautifully articulated. This line in particular hit me
"but it's always the parents of 'indigo children's or 'starseeds' or perhaps 'telepaths' who are so desperate to erase disability that they don't accomodate for it, in my experience."
It is so true and the ones that suffer are the kids who then grow into autistic adults who have never been given the accommodations they need to function and flourish in a world that is so often at odds with their needs.
💓Thank you for your vulnerability and poignant comment. My teenage niece is nonverbal autistic. I had never heard about the tapes but I guarantee they would only make my sister in law —who is a self proclaimed Canadian skeptic —just livid.
As an autistic woman with autistic children, thank you for writing this. In addition to the excellent points made already, I am disturbed by how these assertions could impact the safety of autistics, especially children. It reminds me a bit of the documentary “Tell Them You Love Me” where a professor was convicted of sexually abusing a student with cerebral palsy using facilitated communication.
Autistics need real support and resources…not dangerous fairy tales.
Something the Telepathy Tapes fails to mention is that EVERY subject was communicating their "telepathic" answers using Facilitated Communication, a prompt-based typing method that has been debunked as ideomotor effect. Zaid Jilani has a great in-depth article series about this, if you want to read more:
I'm an autistic disability service worker who has run into Facilitated Communication and its spin offs in the wild and it's deeply disconcerting to witness.
Thanks for talking about this topic; it's been on my heart lately and has me scared for my fellow autistics in this time of popular pseudoscience, conspiracy theories and the very real threat of gutted disability benefits.
Hello. Autistic person here. We are not telepathic, we're OBSERVANT. We often have very strong pattern recognition. We often carefully study people and their interests to try to work them out. We often have extremely strong sensory reception and can pick up cues from all kinds of things allistic people don't usually pick up on. We often look for facts and data because we can't rely on subtleties, inference and implication. We are often very good at logistics, looking at things strategically and in a "big picture" method. And more than anything, we try desperately to connect with the people we love by finding common interests.
ALL of which are much more likely reasons a child knows about a television show their parent watches or what groceries a teacher has bought. Because we are trying to establish human connection, not read their minds.
Thank you so much for writing about this! I work as a speech language pathologist in a school for medically complex kiddos. Almost all of my students are nonverbal/nonspeaking. My job all day long is to help them learn to functionally communicate with others, especially their caregivers! I've seen and spoken with lots of parents who are desperate to reduce the amount of guesswork that communicating with their kids can entail. I really appreciate y'all saying you don't blame any of the parents for believing their kids are telepaths; it can be hard to remain compassionate in the face of something that's untrue and pushes all your buttons💜
I'm a Mulder, but this is bullshit. Telepathy is straight out of the Spiritualism playbook.
I get the parents' desperation. I'm autistic and occasionally unable to communicate verbally when in heightened emotional states. It was more difficult and frequent when I was a child. It was hard for my parents to handle. Fuck, it was/is hard for me to experience.
Claiming to give a voice to people who are unable to communicate is vile. Grifters have preyed on parents of autistic children for decades promising access to nonverbal kids and cures to everyone. It's sickening.
As taxing as it is, I'm often grateful that I'm skilled at masking and wasn't diagnosed until adulthood because I can easily see my parents putting me through ABA therapy, on crazy diets to cure me, etc. And they would have had nothing but the best intentions.
Thanks for bringing attention to this podcast and especially why it's harmful. I had no idea it was a thing.
I was going to talk about Mulder and Scully a lot more in this. It's funny, I was obsessed with The X-Files as teen. And this was when I was a very conservative Christian. And I mainly resonated with Mulder - probably as he was a boy, let's be honest - but it also kinda fitted into all the woo in my life.
These days - I am a Scully. I still like wonder and to be open to ideas, but scepticism plays a much bigger role in my adult life.
I recently started The X-Files again. When I was 5/6/7, I would hide on the stairway where I had a perfect view of the TV while my dad watched it because I wasn't allowed.
It is funny that you were so into it as a teen because I had so many debates with my Christian friends about paranormal stuff. They would *never* have watched The X-Files or anything like it. As an agnostic, I didn't get how they could hold their religious beliefs which, to me, sounded ridiculous, and not leave room for the possibility of aliens, ghosts, etc.
tbh, my innate disposition is much more Scully (and I'm a teensy bit in love with Gillian Anderson). I cultivate the wonder and quiet the skeptic. Unless it's something fucking stupid and harmful like this podcast.
Fellow Mulder here, thanks for sharing your experience with the group. I have two close friends that in the last year have gotten an adhd/autism diagnosis in their forties. It’s been eye opening to hear their experiences in communication and made me think about my own role in our interactions. So often the struggle is hidden from the neurotypical, and the stigma around neurodivergent people can be a barrier to open minded-ness. Especially if we don’t look past the surface or investigate compassionately (I think I’ve been guilty of this in the past).
I’m really enjoying the discourse from everyone, diverse perspectives and neutral listening make this comment section such a cool place!
Side note to my US friends, I can’t imagine how you are dealing with your environments right now. Sending caring thoughts to you (no, I don’t believe I’m telepathically gifted - just have a general sense that sending more caring into the world as much as we can, in whatever way we can, is an act of grace that we need to practice).
Is this a US-based podcast? Because my initial thought was, yeah, this makes sense because rules, laws, and truth simply do not matter anymore. I would absolutely love for the truth to matter but it just doesn't right now. We live in a world where tech stuff is created willy-nilly in a sloppy cash grab rather than as potential solutions to problems. When you realize that EVERYTHING works like this now and literally nothing is done in good faith anymore, of course the truth doesn't matter!
As I was reading this, I was like, okay, get to the part where they want money. I know they have to be wanting money. And, lo and behold, there it is. This podcast is a marketing pitch for something bigger. And I'm sure it'll only grow from there. Not sure exactly how but, you know, capitalism is gonna capitalism.
Also, speaking of how rules, laws, & truth don't matter anymore, the KKK has been spreading flyers around here in Virginia. The local police said no crime was committed because, first amendment rights........but also, I kind of feel like, since rules, laws, and truth don't matter anymore, why don't they fucking find the KKK and whoop their asses??? I am typically not in favor of violence but, c'mon, it is 2025 and the Ku Klux Klax is not afraid to advertise themselves in a multicultural suburb of DC. Super not okay with this. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Fuck them.
BigSam your comment's final paragraph is a clear and valuable outline of what we all stand to lose with the death of a rules-based order. I agree that it's happening, nationally and internationally, largely because of the amoral shits who have grabbed power for themselves just because they can.
An eye for an eye, as Gandhi noted, leaves the whole world blind.
I felt kind of bad tying this story to what is going on politically but also, I don't think it's a coincidence that a podcast about telepathic autistic children is big right now. There's a reason why this is acceptable right now in terms of both truthfulness and the way we view disability.
And also, I will not stop screaming about the KKK being a few counties over from me. It is fucking alarming. Normies need to be talking about this shit and being hella quick to condemn it.
As a disability services professional, the Telepathy Tapes is ABSOLUTELY politically relevant. Even when the misconceptions that are bandied about re: subgroups seem positive or harmless, they can have serious material impacts on people. Policy is being influenced by public opinion and if the public opinion values woo woo bullshit then at-risk communities face real threats.
The rise so called "Wellness" culture coming at the same time as a rise in eugenics and white supremacy. And it goes so well (/s) with the prosperity gospel BS so prevalent in the US.
I totally agree. Nothing exists in a vacuum. This podcast can only exist and be as popular in this current time where no-one cares about facts (or science ). I wish I wasn't as cynical but it is hard not to be.
This sounds a lot like facilitated communication, where a facilitator will "guide" a non-verbal person's hand to a keyboard so they can type out words. It's been completely discredited, since it basically uses the same principles as a Oujia board.
This kind of stuff can be really dangerous though. There have been multiple cases where non-verbal children have accused their parents of abuse through facilitation. One facilitator said the young man she had been assisting professed his love to her, and she began sexually abusing him. She was arrested and sentenced to prison.
I feel bad for the parents and the children, but I shudder to think what the ripple effects of this will be.
As a fellow "Scully", I really appreciate this newsletter! I've been rewatching The X-Files with my kid and I think the show's mantra of "Trust No One" has really served me well since the 90s. Rewatching the show now, in a time where so many people are consumed by conspiracy theories and magical thinking, and seeing how damaging that has been to this Country and the world, is really something. Much like Mulder, I want to believe in things like this, like how cool would it be if telepathy was real and there was a way for us to communicate with non-verbal individuals?? But whenever I find myself thinking something seemingly magical or supernatural might be real, the little Scully on my other shoulder reminds me to look for the proof. We absolutely have to question anyone trying to make us believe claims like this without showing empirical evidence that can be independently tested and verified.
What a show, eh? I was obsessed. Still am, really. Also - watching it is such a comfort, because as crazy as it is - it's kinda more normal than what I am seeing around me IRL right now.
It's always been a comfort show for me, but especially these days. We watched the episode Syzygy (which is such a fun word lol) from season 3 yesterday, with the planetary alignment causing two teens to gain superpowers and everyone else to act super weird, and I find myself wishing syzygy could be a valid explanation for how fucking crazy our current reality is. At least that way we could count on people snapping out of their weird behavior and things going back to normal at the stroke of midnight.
one of the best things about mulder is no matter how much he WANTS to believe he always accepts whatever actual explanation they find. he keeps open the possibility that each new thing /could/ be real but he wants to see the proof as much as scully does. i actually really enjoy the episodes where scully is more of a believer and mulder the skeptic, i think scully being religious is a fascinating element to her character. i really i think both of them are just two sides of the same coin (and i love them for it)
yes! you're so right. that's part of the reason they make such good partners and have such chemistry. if one of them wades a little too far into the deep end of wanting to believe, the other is always there to remind them to keep their feet firmly on solid ground. they're good balances for each other, and good supports. and I think their characters are a good reminder that none of us are 100% pure skeptics, or pure believers. we all have things we question and things we believe wholeheartedly and have complete faith in. and we should be open to possibilities while also looking for the proof.
Thanks for this newsletter David. Not only was it interesting, but it was such a needed change from the depressing reality of global politics - specifically US and NZ.
also, LOVE the tickled ref. in Cruel Intentions! amazing
Yes ,same here as I’ve come to see the news for what it is at the present time (a torrent of shit)and I’ve arrived at a sort of semi tranquility by only reading the sports and the weather plus the webworm and a few other things I’m interested in.It’s that great I’m even considering cancelling the Gaurdian,🤔😂
Such a good read. My sister is autistic and I never heard of this but it sounded like bs when I was reading. So glad you were able to debunk it and do so with respect to those who might be offended by you doing it. Do you find it hard to talk to people about this because they’re so set in their ways that it is true?
And The Amazing Randi! James Randi is someone I admire and love you brought up that challenge he put out there. I became a skeptic because of him and Michael Shermer.
Thanks, Adam. Yeah, going on people's commentary on my piece over on social media rn, it does seem that if you're a believer - you're really a believer. It's similar to religious belief, a sort of "prove me wrong" approach? But it's like - I can't prove fairies don't exist. I just don't have any credible evidence they do, you know? I also get that hope is such a strong motivator - and some people see a lot of hope in telepathy, or similar ideas.
I listened to the whole podcast and totally believed it. Now reading this perspective on it makes me so sad. Exploiting children and their parents who already have difficulties to overcome daily, makes me angry and definitely have trust issues. I sent some many friends that podcast to listen to now I need to follow it up with this webworm!
As I said to someone above - zero embarrassment to be felt. We're all learning and figuring this stuff out together. This comments section makes me so happy, as a lot of different views and we're all getting on logically and with empathy and kindness. Golden.
Me toooooooo! I just can’t believe they would do all this intentionally trying to trick people. So maybe they are all 100% genuine in their belief that it’s real….. this helps me maintain my belief that people are basically decent 🫣 probably shouldn’t have read this post at 6:30 in the morning……😂😂😂
I hear you! When I started listening to the podcast, I was in such a low and uncertain time in my life and I think I just wanted something that sounded beautiful to bring me back up, like HOPE. Obviously I don't have the same troubles as the individuals in the podcast but I was searching for the same thing and that is what put me in my feelings about this podcast.
Unfortunately, I mentioned the tapes rather early on, before I became Definitely Not Interested in Listening to Them, to a relative who think RKJr is the bee's knees. Scared to follow up now.
Oof, I just sent the webworm link with no context and see what happens. My boyfriend was the one who suggested the podcast and he believes it, which is crazy because he is a super logical person, I’m still waiting for him to respond lol to be fair, I did tell a lot of friends about the podcast but have no idea if they actually listened to it 🤷🏻♀️
I still have a lot of questions that haven't been answered (I posted in another comment). I think the truth could be somewhere in the middle and still weirder than we could imagine.
i listened to it too just because i thought it was interesting whether it’s real or not, but i definitely did eventually start believing some of it. they certainly succeeded in easing you into it. i think the parents 100% believe it and i don’t blame them but im not really sure if i think the podcast host and the psychiatrist or whatever believe 100%. i like to have faith that people are good and wouldn’t do this with sinister intentions but… i guess ultimately no matter their intentions there will be negative consequences from it so… yikes
Yeah I agree! I definitely want to find the good in people always but thats my flaw, I’m very trusting and hopeful. I can’t tell if they are just good writers or if I’m just that gullible lol
Just finished reading through all these very important comments from people with differing views (and really admiring them) and feel abashed at what my reaction to this webworm piece was initially - “oh hell! Now I’m going to have to work out what to say to people who start spouting about the TTs as if they’re the most amazing thing ever.” That’s a typical ‘it’s all about me’ viewpoint which when compared with the smart things coming from Oga, Bryn, Josh, Big Sam, Meg et al, makes me really embarrassed. What will typically happen now when I hear anybody raving about the Telepathy Tapes is I’ll simply say “Shut the fuck up and get out of my face” instead of coming up with a really well thought out argument to their raving. I could use some help. 🙃
Zero embarrassment to be felt. We're all learning and figuring this stuff out together. This comments section makes me so happy, as a lot of different views and we're all getting on logically and with empathy and kindness. Golden.
Don't be embarrassed! Honestly it takes constant vigilance and a finely honed woo bullshit meter with an attitude of questioning e v e r y t h i n g to stay on top of all the junk science and magical thinking floating around these days. A lot of it sounds really believable, and as humans who want to hold onto hope and the belief that other humans are generally good and honest, it can be really easy to let ourselves believe in things that would make life easier, or at least easier to understand.
Also, I have to give a shout out to Josh Drummond, who has written for webworm before (though I don't think he's active on substack anymore). He wrote a great piece a couple years ago with really clear guidelines for how to tell "good science from suss". I have a background in science, but it can still be difficult to find the good science in our pop cultural landscape, and I find myself thinking back to this article every time I come across a book or article or documentary that is presenting a scientific claim. I highly recommend it to anyone feeling like they want to better guard against falling for junk science: An Actual Neuroscientist's Guide for Adults Who Can't Science Good https://open.substack.com/pub/cynicsguidetoselfimprovement/p/an-actual-neuroscientists-guide-for?r=1rd9up&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
I listened to the first episode-totally believed it. Why would they make it up? Didn’t they do proper testing with multiple observers to ensure no trickery? Good grief if this is all fake I am going to have some trust issues going forward!!!!! 🙈🙈🙈
Don't feel bad - it's an incredibly convincing and manipulative podcast. I hope this piece, and the links I have included, help to break down what is really going on.
This podcast is HUGE - hence why I wanted to get some words down to counter it (in a hopefully fun and unusual way by talking to a mind reader!)
The paywalled videos are, uh, quite *findable* without a paywall. Normally I wouldn’t support that sort of thing but in the case of this podcast I absolutely will.
I’ve paid and have started watching them. I have a very open mind and was very convinced until I watched one of the videos. The other thing that I’m really confused about is the religious aspect of it all. They ALL heavily believe in god but they are not all the same religion. Some kids “go to a rabbi” this doesn’t make sense to me. Religion doesn’t make sense to me. I’m also worried about trust now too. They spun things so differently, like the Dr losing her licence part. Now I’m worried about which podcasts to trust, I’m not good at discerning them
Sitting here feeling the same way… I tried finding supporting podcasts that touched on these subjects and only found some really out the gate stuff, maybe that was telling me something
Happily, I didn't dive into the TTs. There was too much in the way of introduction to it that had my antennae warning me. I'm also ALWAYS looking at what scientists have to say about shock claims like that. Scam alert!
Even more happily, so glad to hear (and see, because I joined DocPlay to watch Navalny, and stayed on) that Tickled and Mister Organ are featured. The latter I've watched twice already. Could probably go a third. Tickled deserves another watch, I think.
Docplay is also getting a lot more exclusive content. It is hard to legally find a lot of the big documentaries but I see No Other Land and Hollywoodgate are both coming soon.
Good grief! I've never heard of this podcast because I'm a painful hipster and hate anything popular 😅
My overall take away feelings from this whole situation - the podcast, the impetus behind the podcast, the subjects featured - is: sad. I could have thesaurus'ed a more clever word but we all know what sad means.
Sad that the creators of the podcast seemingly never tried to truly investigate anything, they just made everything for their narrow beliefs. Sad that this podcast is so popular that millions will listen to it and be given false hope? Sad for the participants that think they've been given an answer when there's still no progress?
Because that's the reality isn't it, this podcast has only cemented beliefs and roped in others that haven't applied critical thinking to the conclusions drawn. There might be a way to communicate with people further along the spectrum, but this ISN'T IT. I believe we're all connected on this planet, we're all part of a delicate ecosystem. I feel like some of us (religious folk, woo types) are happy because we think we HAVE THE ANSWER and so are constantly proselytising. But they haven't questioned! They're convinced in their FAITH that they're right and so never have to ACTUALLY INVESTIGATE. They've already been told what to think and I HATE THAT 🤣. I wasn't raised with religious instruction and unfortunately any brush I've had with it over the intervening years has felt just like coercive control but I guess it would be nice to KNOW, and by know I mean just be told what to think and not have to ever question 😅
I guess what I'm wondering is: would I rather be ignorant and happy or inquisitive and depressed 🤣 Also wondering after re reading this comment whether I over analyse too much 💩
I am an autistic parent to an autistic kid, and I vowed never to listen to the telepathy tapes because I think it would make me so angry and sad. I understand the desperation of the parents, all they want to do is communicate with their kids, but the need to prove them telepaths also reeks of ableism. "Oh no, they're not disabled, they're just more evolved!" etc. Those poor kids. I wonder if they're getting the accomodations they really need, but it's always the parents of 'indigo children's or 'starseeds' or perhaps 'telepaths' who are so desperate to erase disability that they don't accomodate for it, in my experience. Even my parents and in-laws were so resistant when we suspected my kid of being autistic. "Why do you want to label him?" "He's just boisterous." "Why do you want him to be autistic?" They're so desperate to erase the 'bad' label. But being autistic is not a failing, and parents are not failures for having autistic kids. Society seems determined to say that it is and we are, though. Maybe the parents are trying to shed that perception, a bit.
I really worry for the knock on effect this is going to have for autistic kids and high support needs autistic people. Can't perform this new ability everyone expects you to have? Will you be discarded on a heap of 'broken' autistic people like so many before us?
I hope all of that makes sense. This whole thing just stirred up a lot of feelings 💖
Pinning this.
💖
It reminds me of a theory where autistic kids have been considered supernatural before - the stories of changelings. Where kids would be swapped out with a Fae creature that looked and sounded like them, but wasn't *really* human, around the age of 4 or 5 (when autism starts to become more apparent).
It did not end well for those children.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Ro. I was thinking along similar lines, but you said it so much better than I could have. It really does seem like people are desperate to swap the "bad" label of being autistic into a "Good and Special" label. And it's understandable, nobody wants to live with the stigma being any flavor of neurodivergent and they don't want their kids to live with it. But trying to make autistic kids into something extraordinary or supernatural or magical when they are absolutely just not... is just going to cause so much more damage.
My nonverbal autistic niece doesn’t want to be perceived as magical or angelic. She needs support, resources and acceptance. The telepathic children lore reminded me of the “Magical Negro” trope whose mystical powers and mere existence serve only to enlighten and help make (white) people “better.” It makes my sister in law cringe every time someone elevates her daughter and gushes about her special or even “divine” purpose. She is a human in her own right, deserving of her own story.
EXACTLY!!
It's so human to try and categorise and box everything up neatly. Why can't we just accept that EVERYONE exists on a spectrum and there's only ever going to be a handful of people that fit into the: "perfect human" box 🥺
Seems to me, the more we try to rationalise everyone's quirks (for want of a better word) the more we damage everyone's opportunity to live their lives 🤔?
I know what you mean here Paula, but I think you're inadvertently rubbishing the idea that people should get diagnoses. A diagnosis can be the difference between a child being accommodated at school and being able to learn and not. Diagnosis opens up options. It's not rationalisation or putting people in boxes, it's accepting and naming why people struggle to operate in the world as "normal" people do.
They aren't quirks, and labelling them as that can be genuinely damaging and patronising. I know you don't mean it that way, but unfortunately that's how it's coming across.
I'm trying to figure out what you mean here - do you mean 'everyone is on the autism spectrum' and that we shouldn't be giving people diagnoses? /Genuine
To your point, a ‘perfect’ human would be really weird
Fellow autistic and disability service worker here. THIS THIS THIS THIS. I worked as a para last year for someone whose mom wanted me to practice facilitated communication with her and it was truly disturbing. I'm sympathetic to the parental anxiety around the very real issues that face disabled kids, especially as they age out of school-related supports. We want to make sure our loved ones are okay when we're gone. But localizing all that fear and angst in the autistic/disabled person themselves -- making sure they're ability to advocate and thrive is no less than super-human -- is so damaging. It's unrealistic expectations at best and straight up denial of the kid you DO have (who is worthy of just as much love and reverence) at worst. When a class of person becomes a vessel for the world's most fanatical hopes and desperate dreams, they're at real risk of being exploited, neglected and abused.
100% this. Parents of disabled children and adults can inadvertently be the most ableist. Not out of malice, but out of a desire for their child to be "normal" and in mainstream society.
What we really need to do is make society more accessible and accommodating, not giving disabled people this label of "superpowers" to try and negate the disability.
(Can you tell this is my hot button topic?)
It gets me fired up, too. One thing I regret not telling the parent who was pushing FC on her (very much adult) child was “You’ve tried intervention after intervention after intervention for 20+ years. Have you ever tried letting her be autistic?”
We don’t need to change, we need to be able to be exactly how we are.
Oh, she would've been very defensive and probably blown up in your face. There's a certain age of parent who have very predictable responses to a diagnosis of anything, but particularly autism or learning disabilities.
I know, I didn’t say it for a reason. She was also going through a lot of personal stuff and I didn’t want to be rude. But man I just hope her daughter is okay.
Thank you for sharing this. Beautifully articulated. This line in particular hit me
"but it's always the parents of 'indigo children's or 'starseeds' or perhaps 'telepaths' who are so desperate to erase disability that they don't accomodate for it, in my experience."
It is so true and the ones that suffer are the kids who then grow into autistic adults who have never been given the accommodations they need to function and flourish in a world that is so often at odds with their needs.
💓Thank you for your vulnerability and poignant comment. My teenage niece is nonverbal autistic. I had never heard about the tapes but I guarantee they would only make my sister in law —who is a self proclaimed Canadian skeptic —just livid.
You're fkin awesome ❤️
As an autistic woman with autistic children, thank you for writing this. In addition to the excellent points made already, I am disturbed by how these assertions could impact the safety of autistics, especially children. It reminds me a bit of the documentary “Tell Them You Love Me” where a professor was convicted of sexually abusing a student with cerebral palsy using facilitated communication.
Autistics need real support and resources…not dangerous fairy tales.
Pinning this, thanks Sarah.
Something the Telepathy Tapes fails to mention is that EVERY subject was communicating their "telepathic" answers using Facilitated Communication, a prompt-based typing method that has been debunked as ideomotor effect. Zaid Jilani has a great in-depth article series about this, if you want to read more:
https://substack.com/home/post/p-153461329
https://www.theamericansaga.com/p/parents-with-non-verbal-autistic
I'm an autistic disability service worker who has run into Facilitated Communication and its spin offs in the wild and it's deeply disconcerting to witness.
Thanks for talking about this topic; it's been on my heart lately and has me scared for my fellow autistics in this time of popular pseudoscience, conspiracy theories and the very real threat of gutted disability benefits.
Pinning this, Addison. Thank you. It's good to see facilitated communication raised a lot in the comments; I missed it in my piece.
Hello. Autistic person here. We are not telepathic, we're OBSERVANT. We often have very strong pattern recognition. We often carefully study people and their interests to try to work them out. We often have extremely strong sensory reception and can pick up cues from all kinds of things allistic people don't usually pick up on. We often look for facts and data because we can't rely on subtleties, inference and implication. We are often very good at logistics, looking at things strategically and in a "big picture" method. And more than anything, we try desperately to connect with the people we love by finding common interests.
ALL of which are much more likely reasons a child knows about a television show their parent watches or what groceries a teacher has bought. Because we are trying to establish human connection, not read their minds.
👍🏾💯👏 AND mimicking others behaviour if we see it pleases our parents/teachers etc even though we don't really understand what they are doing 🤷🏻♀️
Thank you so much for writing about this! I work as a speech language pathologist in a school for medically complex kiddos. Almost all of my students are nonverbal/nonspeaking. My job all day long is to help them learn to functionally communicate with others, especially their caregivers! I've seen and spoken with lots of parents who are desperate to reduce the amount of guesswork that communicating with their kids can entail. I really appreciate y'all saying you don't blame any of the parents for believing their kids are telepaths; it can be hard to remain compassionate in the face of something that's untrue and pushes all your buttons💜
You do amazing work, Brenna. It must be challenging and also incredibly rewarding (how I feel about Webworm, I think?)
I'm a Mulder, but this is bullshit. Telepathy is straight out of the Spiritualism playbook.
I get the parents' desperation. I'm autistic and occasionally unable to communicate verbally when in heightened emotional states. It was more difficult and frequent when I was a child. It was hard for my parents to handle. Fuck, it was/is hard for me to experience.
Claiming to give a voice to people who are unable to communicate is vile. Grifters have preyed on parents of autistic children for decades promising access to nonverbal kids and cures to everyone. It's sickening.
As taxing as it is, I'm often grateful that I'm skilled at masking and wasn't diagnosed until adulthood because I can easily see my parents putting me through ABA therapy, on crazy diets to cure me, etc. And they would have had nothing but the best intentions.
Thanks for bringing attention to this podcast and especially why it's harmful. I had no idea it was a thing.
EDIT: This cool podcast (they're not all garbage, just the super popular ones) that I listen to did an episode on spiritualism: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6YTeYOT5OrNacv6Gy8EP9c
I was going to talk about Mulder and Scully a lot more in this. It's funny, I was obsessed with The X-Files as teen. And this was when I was a very conservative Christian. And I mainly resonated with Mulder - probably as he was a boy, let's be honest - but it also kinda fitted into all the woo in my life.
These days - I am a Scully. I still like wonder and to be open to ideas, but scepticism plays a much bigger role in my adult life.
That said - Mulder still kicks ass. God he's hot.
I recently started The X-Files again. When I was 5/6/7, I would hide on the stairway where I had a perfect view of the TV while my dad watched it because I wasn't allowed.
It is funny that you were so into it as a teen because I had so many debates with my Christian friends about paranormal stuff. They would *never* have watched The X-Files or anything like it. As an agnostic, I didn't get how they could hold their religious beliefs which, to me, sounded ridiculous, and not leave room for the possibility of aliens, ghosts, etc.
tbh, my innate disposition is much more Scully (and I'm a teensy bit in love with Gillian Anderson). I cultivate the wonder and quiet the skeptic. Unless it's something fucking stupid and harmful like this podcast.
Soo hot in Californication! Love that amount $666.69 Satan & sex 😄
Fellow Mulder here, thanks for sharing your experience with the group. I have two close friends that in the last year have gotten an adhd/autism diagnosis in their forties. It’s been eye opening to hear their experiences in communication and made me think about my own role in our interactions. So often the struggle is hidden from the neurotypical, and the stigma around neurodivergent people can be a barrier to open minded-ness. Especially if we don’t look past the surface or investigate compassionately (I think I’ve been guilty of this in the past).
I’m really enjoying the discourse from everyone, diverse perspectives and neutral listening make this comment section such a cool place!
Side note to my US friends, I can’t imagine how you are dealing with your environments right now. Sending caring thoughts to you (no, I don’t believe I’m telepathically gifted - just have a general sense that sending more caring into the world as much as we can, in whatever way we can, is an act of grace that we need to practice).
It's so awesome that you're thinking about your side of interactions in light of your friends' diagnoses. Not many people are willing.
If you haven't come across it yet, the double empathy problem will be of interest: https://reframingautism.org.au/miltons-double-empathy-problem-a-summary-for-non-academics/
Is this a US-based podcast? Because my initial thought was, yeah, this makes sense because rules, laws, and truth simply do not matter anymore. I would absolutely love for the truth to matter but it just doesn't right now. We live in a world where tech stuff is created willy-nilly in a sloppy cash grab rather than as potential solutions to problems. When you realize that EVERYTHING works like this now and literally nothing is done in good faith anymore, of course the truth doesn't matter!
As I was reading this, I was like, okay, get to the part where they want money. I know they have to be wanting money. And, lo and behold, there it is. This podcast is a marketing pitch for something bigger. And I'm sure it'll only grow from there. Not sure exactly how but, you know, capitalism is gonna capitalism.
Also, speaking of how rules, laws, & truth don't matter anymore, the KKK has been spreading flyers around here in Virginia. The local police said no crime was committed because, first amendment rights........but also, I kind of feel like, since rules, laws, and truth don't matter anymore, why don't they fucking find the KKK and whoop their asses??? I am typically not in favor of violence but, c'mon, it is 2025 and the Ku Klux Klax is not afraid to advertise themselves in a multicultural suburb of DC. Super not okay with this. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Fuck them.
https://www.loudountimes.com/0local-or-not/ku-klux-klan-leaflets-found-near-round-hill-elementary-school/article_66847e80-da86-11ef-9635-9741b27c32b4.html
BigSam your comment's final paragraph is a clear and valuable outline of what we all stand to lose with the death of a rules-based order. I agree that it's happening, nationally and internationally, largely because of the amoral shits who have grabbed power for themselves just because they can.
An eye for an eye, as Gandhi noted, leaves the whole world blind.
I felt kind of bad tying this story to what is going on politically but also, I don't think it's a coincidence that a podcast about telepathic autistic children is big right now. There's a reason why this is acceptable right now in terms of both truthfulness and the way we view disability.
And also, I will not stop screaming about the KKK being a few counties over from me. It is fucking alarming. Normies need to be talking about this shit and being hella quick to condemn it.
As a disability services professional, the Telepathy Tapes is ABSOLUTELY politically relevant. Even when the misconceptions that are bandied about re: subgroups seem positive or harmless, they can have serious material impacts on people. Policy is being influenced by public opinion and if the public opinion values woo woo bullshit then at-risk communities face real threats.
The rise so called "Wellness" culture coming at the same time as a rise in eugenics and white supremacy. And it goes so well (/s) with the prosperity gospel BS so prevalent in the US.
Amen. Excellent comment and far more concise than I could ever be.
Thanks!
I totally agree. Nothing exists in a vacuum. This podcast can only exist and be as popular in this current time where no-one cares about facts (or science ). I wish I wasn't as cynical but it is hard not to be.
Hard agree
This sounds a lot like facilitated communication, where a facilitator will "guide" a non-verbal person's hand to a keyboard so they can type out words. It's been completely discredited, since it basically uses the same principles as a Oujia board.
This kind of stuff can be really dangerous though. There have been multiple cases where non-verbal children have accused their parents of abuse through facilitation. One facilitator said the young man she had been assisting professed his love to her, and she began sexually abusing him. She was arrested and sentenced to prison.
I feel bad for the parents and the children, but I shudder to think what the ripple effects of this will be.
Glad to see this raised a lot in the comments - I should have mentioned this phrase in my piece. Brain fart.
Don't worry, David. It allowed me to engage in my favorite past time: pretending to be smart on the internet.
Check out my comment -- all the subjects in Telepathy Tapes use FC. It's the same bullshit with a sparkly new paintjob
Yes! I was thinking about that documentary, "Tell Them You Love Me", while reading this! Really disturbing.
As a fellow "Scully", I really appreciate this newsletter! I've been rewatching The X-Files with my kid and I think the show's mantra of "Trust No One" has really served me well since the 90s. Rewatching the show now, in a time where so many people are consumed by conspiracy theories and magical thinking, and seeing how damaging that has been to this Country and the world, is really something. Much like Mulder, I want to believe in things like this, like how cool would it be if telepathy was real and there was a way for us to communicate with non-verbal individuals?? But whenever I find myself thinking something seemingly magical or supernatural might be real, the little Scully on my other shoulder reminds me to look for the proof. We absolutely have to question anyone trying to make us believe claims like this without showing empirical evidence that can be independently tested and verified.
What a show, eh? I was obsessed. Still am, really. Also - watching it is such a comfort, because as crazy as it is - it's kinda more normal than what I am seeing around me IRL right now.
It's always been a comfort show for me, but especially these days. We watched the episode Syzygy (which is such a fun word lol) from season 3 yesterday, with the planetary alignment causing two teens to gain superpowers and everyone else to act super weird, and I find myself wishing syzygy could be a valid explanation for how fucking crazy our current reality is. At least that way we could count on people snapping out of their weird behavior and things going back to normal at the stroke of midnight.
one of the best things about mulder is no matter how much he WANTS to believe he always accepts whatever actual explanation they find. he keeps open the possibility that each new thing /could/ be real but he wants to see the proof as much as scully does. i actually really enjoy the episodes where scully is more of a believer and mulder the skeptic, i think scully being religious is a fascinating element to her character. i really i think both of them are just two sides of the same coin (and i love them for it)
yes! you're so right. that's part of the reason they make such good partners and have such chemistry. if one of them wades a little too far into the deep end of wanting to believe, the other is always there to remind them to keep their feet firmly on solid ground. they're good balances for each other, and good supports. and I think their characters are a good reminder that none of us are 100% pure skeptics, or pure believers. we all have things we question and things we believe wholeheartedly and have complete faith in. and we should be open to possibilities while also looking for the proof.
Thanks for this newsletter David. Not only was it interesting, but it was such a needed change from the depressing reality of global politics - specifically US and NZ.
also, LOVE the tickled ref. in Cruel Intentions! amazing
Agree! Giving my brain a break from USA political confusion and madness
Yes - I do think a lot about the material I write about, and not leaning too heavily into just one thing. I think I mostly get that right!
Yes ,same here as I’ve come to see the news for what it is at the present time (a torrent of shit)and I’ve arrived at a sort of semi tranquility by only reading the sports and the weather plus the webworm and a few other things I’m interested in.It’s that great I’m even considering cancelling the Gaurdian,🤔😂
Such a good read. My sister is autistic and I never heard of this but it sounded like bs when I was reading. So glad you were able to debunk it and do so with respect to those who might be offended by you doing it. Do you find it hard to talk to people about this because they’re so set in their ways that it is true?
And The Amazing Randi! James Randi is someone I admire and love you brought up that challenge he put out there. I became a skeptic because of him and Michael Shermer.
Thanks, Adam. Yeah, going on people's commentary on my piece over on social media rn, it does seem that if you're a believer - you're really a believer. It's similar to religious belief, a sort of "prove me wrong" approach? But it's like - I can't prove fairies don't exist. I just don't have any credible evidence they do, you know? I also get that hope is such a strong motivator - and some people see a lot of hope in telepathy, or similar ideas.
I listened to the whole podcast and totally believed it. Now reading this perspective on it makes me so sad. Exploiting children and their parents who already have difficulties to overcome daily, makes me angry and definitely have trust issues. I sent some many friends that podcast to listen to now I need to follow it up with this webworm!
As I said to someone above - zero embarrassment to be felt. We're all learning and figuring this stuff out together. This comments section makes me so happy, as a lot of different views and we're all getting on logically and with empathy and kindness. Golden.
Me toooooooo! I just can’t believe they would do all this intentionally trying to trick people. So maybe they are all 100% genuine in their belief that it’s real….. this helps me maintain my belief that people are basically decent 🫣 probably shouldn’t have read this post at 6:30 in the morning……😂😂😂
I hear you! When I started listening to the podcast, I was in such a low and uncertain time in my life and I think I just wanted something that sounded beautiful to bring me back up, like HOPE. Obviously I don't have the same troubles as the individuals in the podcast but I was searching for the same thing and that is what put me in my feelings about this podcast.
Unfortunately, I mentioned the tapes rather early on, before I became Definitely Not Interested in Listening to Them, to a relative who think RKJr is the bee's knees. Scared to follow up now.
Oof, I just sent the webworm link with no context and see what happens. My boyfriend was the one who suggested the podcast and he believes it, which is crazy because he is a super logical person, I’m still waiting for him to respond lol to be fair, I did tell a lot of friends about the podcast but have no idea if they actually listened to it 🤷🏻♀️
I still have a lot of questions that haven't been answered (I posted in another comment). I think the truth could be somewhere in the middle and still weirder than we could imagine.
i listened to it too just because i thought it was interesting whether it’s real or not, but i definitely did eventually start believing some of it. they certainly succeeded in easing you into it. i think the parents 100% believe it and i don’t blame them but im not really sure if i think the podcast host and the psychiatrist or whatever believe 100%. i like to have faith that people are good and wouldn’t do this with sinister intentions but… i guess ultimately no matter their intentions there will be negative consequences from it so… yikes
Yeah I agree! I definitely want to find the good in people always but thats my flaw, I’m very trusting and hopeful. I can’t tell if they are just good writers or if I’m just that gullible lol
Just finished reading through all these very important comments from people with differing views (and really admiring them) and feel abashed at what my reaction to this webworm piece was initially - “oh hell! Now I’m going to have to work out what to say to people who start spouting about the TTs as if they’re the most amazing thing ever.” That’s a typical ‘it’s all about me’ viewpoint which when compared with the smart things coming from Oga, Bryn, Josh, Big Sam, Meg et al, makes me really embarrassed. What will typically happen now when I hear anybody raving about the Telepathy Tapes is I’ll simply say “Shut the fuck up and get out of my face” instead of coming up with a really well thought out argument to their raving. I could use some help. 🙃
Zero embarrassment to be felt. We're all learning and figuring this stuff out together. This comments section makes me so happy, as a lot of different views and we're all getting on logically and with empathy and kindness. Golden.
Don't be embarrassed! Honestly it takes constant vigilance and a finely honed woo bullshit meter with an attitude of questioning e v e r y t h i n g to stay on top of all the junk science and magical thinking floating around these days. A lot of it sounds really believable, and as humans who want to hold onto hope and the belief that other humans are generally good and honest, it can be really easy to let ourselves believe in things that would make life easier, or at least easier to understand.
Also, I have to give a shout out to Josh Drummond, who has written for webworm before (though I don't think he's active on substack anymore). He wrote a great piece a couple years ago with really clear guidelines for how to tell "good science from suss". I have a background in science, but it can still be difficult to find the good science in our pop cultural landscape, and I find myself thinking back to this article every time I come across a book or article or documentary that is presenting a scientific claim. I highly recommend it to anyone feeling like they want to better guard against falling for junk science: An Actual Neuroscientist's Guide for Adults Who Can't Science Good https://open.substack.com/pub/cynicsguidetoselfimprovement/p/an-actual-neuroscientists-guide-for?r=1rd9up&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
and just after posting this comment, I scroll down to read a few more and find Josh commenting lol! so maybe he is still active here :D
Yes! This comment section is so thought expanding 😅 I'm happy to sit here and read everyone's differing thoughts ❣️
Best comments section on the internet!
I listened to the first episode-totally believed it. Why would they make it up? Didn’t they do proper testing with multiple observers to ensure no trickery? Good grief if this is all fake I am going to have some trust issues going forward!!!!! 🙈🙈🙈
Don't feel bad - it's an incredibly convincing and manipulative podcast. I hope this piece, and the links I have included, help to break down what is really going on.
This podcast is HUGE - hence why I wanted to get some words down to counter it (in a hopefully fun and unusual way by talking to a mind reader!)
You know I’m gonna have to watch those damn paywall videos now don’t you? 🙈🙈🙈🙈
Please do not pay them a cent. I mean, do you but - I'd urge you not to!
The paywalled videos are, uh, quite *findable* without a paywall. Normally I wouldn’t support that sort of thing but in the case of this podcast I absolutely will.
Ha! Thanks….not sure I can stomach it now. Mind still unwound!
I’ve paid and have started watching them. I have a very open mind and was very convinced until I watched one of the videos. The other thing that I’m really confused about is the religious aspect of it all. They ALL heavily believe in god but they are not all the same religion. Some kids “go to a rabbi” this doesn’t make sense to me. Religion doesn’t make sense to me. I’m also worried about trust now too. They spun things so differently, like the Dr losing her licence part. Now I’m worried about which podcasts to trust, I’m not good at discerning them
Clearly I am not good at discerning the truth either. Wow. Still processing over here 😂
Sitting here feeling the same way… I tried finding supporting podcasts that touched on these subjects and only found some really out the gate stuff, maybe that was telling me something
I am drawn to ‘out the gate’ … but trickery and delusion seems so very rampant now!
Happily, I didn't dive into the TTs. There was too much in the way of introduction to it that had my antennae warning me. I'm also ALWAYS looking at what scientists have to say about shock claims like that. Scam alert!
Even more happily, so glad to hear (and see, because I joined DocPlay to watch Navalny, and stayed on) that Tickled and Mister Organ are featured. The latter I've watched twice already. Could probably go a third. Tickled deserves another watch, I think.
Docplay is also getting a lot more exclusive content. It is hard to legally find a lot of the big documentaries but I see No Other Land and Hollywoodgate are both coming soon.
Good grief! I've never heard of this podcast because I'm a painful hipster and hate anything popular 😅
My overall take away feelings from this whole situation - the podcast, the impetus behind the podcast, the subjects featured - is: sad. I could have thesaurus'ed a more clever word but we all know what sad means.
Sad that the creators of the podcast seemingly never tried to truly investigate anything, they just made everything for their narrow beliefs. Sad that this podcast is so popular that millions will listen to it and be given false hope? Sad for the participants that think they've been given an answer when there's still no progress?
Because that's the reality isn't it, this podcast has only cemented beliefs and roped in others that haven't applied critical thinking to the conclusions drawn. There might be a way to communicate with people further along the spectrum, but this ISN'T IT. I believe we're all connected on this planet, we're all part of a delicate ecosystem. I feel like some of us (religious folk, woo types) are happy because we think we HAVE THE ANSWER and so are constantly proselytising. But they haven't questioned! They're convinced in their FAITH that they're right and so never have to ACTUALLY INVESTIGATE. They've already been told what to think and I HATE THAT 🤣. I wasn't raised with religious instruction and unfortunately any brush I've had with it over the intervening years has felt just like coercive control but I guess it would be nice to KNOW, and by know I mean just be told what to think and not have to ever question 😅
I guess what I'm wondering is: would I rather be ignorant and happy or inquisitive and depressed 🤣 Also wondering after re reading this comment whether I over analyse too much 💩
Have a great day fellow wormies.