Yikes. This is a rather unempathic and cruel event to have organised and so is Andrew's unapologetic response. It's also interesting to me symbolically that the fake notes have a profile picture on them and I'm guessing it's Andrew Thorn. This is where a famous person or monarch would normally be pictured which is arguably rather grandiose. Pivoting your company towards selling PPE and masks during a pandemic is also somewhat cynical and opportunistic too. Like David's 'friend' James, on the surface there appears to be a similar personality structure at play here.
Speaking more broadly (I'm not assessing or diagnosing anyone here), there is a concept in psychology called the Dark Tetrad which enumerates four core antisocial personality features. These four traits are independent but they partially overlap and are often 'co-morbid' which is a fancy word meaning 'multiple are present at the same time in an individual'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad#Dark_tetrad
In summary, the four traits are narcissism (grandiose and entitled), machiavellianism (cynical and deceptive), psychopathy (shameless and ruthless), and sadism (enjoys cruelty). People who score high on multiple of these Dark Tetrad factors are interpersonally predatory and are generally best avoided, either as relationship partners or in commercial business dealings.
For a company that supposedly puts safety first, the event was a complete fail. According to the company's website "We believe the safe execution of work is a guiding behaviour of any ethical organization and are passionate about helping you achieve superior safety in your workplace, industry and community." Yeah right.
I would have thought that dropping a significant amount of money in public would be illegal. Even without the fake money, you know that people are going to get hurt
I thought so too, Lex - like, that it would have to go through Internal Affairs etc, like we do with raffles giving away over a certain amount of cash. But ..... doesn't sound like this dude understands due process, let alone morality or good sense.
I love your work and he's certainly a dick... but compared to the other dicks you've dealt with, his uncooperative responses aren't that surprising considering he's not great at PR, you opened with "fuck you" and then called him "unhinged." There is a non-zero chance he was still in bed too... I'm looking forward to the follow-up!
Yeah, he's just really likes the concept of 'limited liability'.
One wonders if any of these new vehicles qualify as 'phoenix companies' since per the Company's Act changes in 2007, a director of a failed company can't be a director of a phoenix company.
In case anyone is wondering, a phoenix company is not a Harry Potter franchise but refers to directors of insolvent companies forming new companies, often trading as normal doing what the previous company did, especially when these new companies then later also fail, leaving a trail of unpaid creditors.
I hate when people don't take responsibility for their shitty behaviour. Own your crap and apologise for the hurt and damage caused. Its an extreme version of a lolly scramble, with cash (supposedly). Of course people were going to get hurt :(
And that comment from NZ masks?! Fuck what is going on
My initial reaction to this was "WTF were they thinking?!!?!!" Then the reaction came out and I thought - "oh right, no brain to think with". Then on reading your article this a.m. and seeing the history of amoral behaviour from this twat, it would appear that thinking is definitely a rare thing. I am hoping faintly that he will get arrested for something, like public endangerment - anything really. Coz he should be locked up. Key thrown. Nasty piece of works.
I don't know if he's likely to be charged with forgery, but those fake fives are the sort of thing which can be accepted by retail workers under pressure.
Folks if you haven't already discovered the YouTube channel "All gas, no brakes" please do yourself a favour and go check it out. Truly amazingly stuff.
Given your introductory remarks, David, ('fuck you, sincerely'), there was never any chance that Andrew or Safety Warehouse would respond in a useful way. Maybe if you'd been addressing someone sensible.... But just like me yesterday, telling someone he was a fuckwit, the thing about fuckwits is that they're not usually capable of taking that information on board.
I sympathise completely with your feelings, but you do seem to have blown a chance to get some useful information out of these clowns.
I worry a little David, you seem to have let your anger take precedence over your journalism a few times lately. Completely understandable and natural, but ultimately not good for either your work or your personal life. Just my outside opinion, of course.
Sometimes it's necessary to take a break from confronting the darkness of humanity.
Hey Chris, not angry - just passionate about this one. I think I am pretty fair all things considered.
But yes - I do get angry about certain things, racism, homophobia, that kind of thing. I am not quite sure what emotion you'd like me to have for this things? I am certainly not going to sit back and go "oh, who cares".
But my reporting I like to think is reasoned and backed up by fact.
My work and my personal life are okay, thanks - but I appreciate your concern.
I'd also add - I think I got plenty of useful information out this guy. Maybe you think otherwise, but it all seems pretty telling. And if you're main takeaway from this is my approach to him - then I'm not quite sure what to say.
Well, my main takeaway is that the guy is even more of a plonker than early reports indicated. Seems more like a malicious scammer than a naïve fool. I'm just a bit sad that an opportunity may have been lost - give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves, and all that - however I acknowledge that you're in a far better position to judge that than I am.
As far as your emotional response is concerned, we have whatever emotions we may have. That's not something anyone can or should try to dictate, least of all a stranger on the Internet. If you judge that the way you harness your outrage is the most healthy and productive you can, then perhaps that's all your readers should hope for. Certainly I have nothing further to suggest.
I read this article and I see yet another narcissist at play. See how a narcissist immediately applies the victim to themselves rather than the villain. Seems to be a lot around at the moment.
No offense to all of the wonderful kiwis and of course, David, but damn NZ is SMALL! It almost seems like everyone knows everyone else. Seems it would make it much harder to be a dick, since everybody is your neighbor. But then again, evidently not. Great letter once again. Cheers!!
Definitely a weird promotion. Definitely some suspect descriptions in the promotional material. But also definitely something where you *should* apply some skepticism and think about whether it's likely $100k would just be given away like that, read some the fine print, see the word 'value' and go "ah, I see".
But also definitely something anyone planning such an event should be aware of is that there are many people who get taken in by scams and are vulnerable to such manipulation.
The responses of the company, public and private, definitely slate them firmly in the genre of grade A asshole.
Cash drops are absolutely a thing that has really happened. If a seemingly-real business says they are dropping $100k then it's not unreasonable to believe them, especially when it's taking place somewhere like Aotea Square that they've clearly paid to hire and fence off.
They had options about how they chose to promote the event, and they went for a deliberately deceptive approach that led people to believe $100,000 in cash would be raining from the sky. And it's not like they didn't know that's how people were interpreting it. People were commenting about their hopes for the money and the difficulties they were facing.
Bugger this guy's a dick is it an actual company or just him as the ideas person. I can't share this as I think he's had enough limelight and because he's so fucking depressing.
People like this are too stupid to actually think about what they’re dangerous actions may do to others. The stunt was grotesque and put people’s lives in danger. A huge FUCK YOU to the “Safety” Warehouse is warranted.
Yikes. This is a rather unempathic and cruel event to have organised and so is Andrew's unapologetic response. It's also interesting to me symbolically that the fake notes have a profile picture on them and I'm guessing it's Andrew Thorn. This is where a famous person or monarch would normally be pictured which is arguably rather grandiose. Pivoting your company towards selling PPE and masks during a pandemic is also somewhat cynical and opportunistic too. Like David's 'friend' James, on the surface there appears to be a similar personality structure at play here.
Speaking more broadly (I'm not assessing or diagnosing anyone here), there is a concept in psychology called the Dark Tetrad which enumerates four core antisocial personality features. These four traits are independent but they partially overlap and are often 'co-morbid' which is a fancy word meaning 'multiple are present at the same time in an individual'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad#Dark_tetrad
In summary, the four traits are narcissism (grandiose and entitled), machiavellianism (cynical and deceptive), psychopathy (shameless and ruthless), and sadism (enjoys cruelty). People who score high on multiple of these Dark Tetrad factors are interpersonally predatory and are generally best avoided, either as relationship partners or in commercial business dealings.
As always: thanks for your insight, Paul. You're a gem.
Thanks Paul, this is the insight I was hoping for.
For a company that supposedly puts safety first, the event was a complete fail. According to the company's website "We believe the safe execution of work is a guiding behaviour of any ethical organization and are passionate about helping you achieve superior safety in your workplace, industry and community." Yeah right.
I would have thought that dropping a significant amount of money in public would be illegal. Even without the fake money, you know that people are going to get hurt
I thought so too, Lex - like, that it would have to go through Internal Affairs etc, like we do with raffles giving away over a certain amount of cash. But ..... doesn't sound like this dude understands due process, let alone morality or good sense.
I love your work and he's certainly a dick... but compared to the other dicks you've dealt with, his uncooperative responses aren't that surprising considering he's not great at PR, you opened with "fuck you" and then called him "unhinged." There is a non-zero chance he was still in bed too... I'm looking forward to the follow-up!
Whenever I see a guy like this running a business I think, "it must be really easy to run a business."
I predict that this does not end for you here. He'll be back.
He will be. He's had a few.
And he's got even more now. Sheesh!
THORN, Andrew
SBE TRUSTEES LIMITED (8003536) - Current Director
DA HIRE TRUSTEES LIMITED (7976636) - Current Director
NZIF LIMITED (8030298) - Current Director
C2L 213 TRUSTEES LIMITED (8011305) - Current Director
GREENBACK ECOMMERCE LIMITED (7864154) - Current Director
NZWS HQ LIMITED (8003576) - Current Director
PIVOT POINT TRUSTEES SA LIMITED (8003818) - Current Director
NZC TRUSTEES LIMITED (8005577) - Current Director
HIAB HOLDINGS LIMITED (8017758) - Current Director
MAVEN CAPITAL HOLDINGS LIMITED (8017627) - Current Director
GOLDBACK LIMITED (8030183) - Current Director
NZWS LOWER SOUTH LIMITED (8030216) - Current Director
VODKA PLUS LIMITED (6222587) - Current Director
M SAFETY LIMITED (8138187) - Current Director
THORN, Andrew John
GREENBACK OAK TRUSTEES LIMITED (8078563) - Current Director
GREENBACK TRUSTEES LIMITED (6515552) - Current Director
GREENBACK TRUSTEES LIMITED owns most of them which in turn is then owned by Andrew Thorn
Totally normal. Nothing to see here.
Yeah, he's just really likes the concept of 'limited liability'.
One wonders if any of these new vehicles qualify as 'phoenix companies' since per the Company's Act changes in 2007, a director of a failed company can't be a director of a phoenix company.
https://www.laneneave.co.nz/rising-from-the-ashes-what-is-a-phoenix-company/
In case anyone is wondering, a phoenix company is not a Harry Potter franchise but refers to directors of insolvent companies forming new companies, often trading as normal doing what the previous company did, especially when these new companies then later also fail, leaving a trail of unpaid creditors.
I hate when people don't take responsibility for their shitty behaviour. Own your crap and apologise for the hurt and damage caused. Its an extreme version of a lolly scramble, with cash (supposedly). Of course people were going to get hurt :(
And that comment from NZ masks?! Fuck what is going on
My initial reaction to this was "WTF were they thinking?!!?!!" Then the reaction came out and I thought - "oh right, no brain to think with". Then on reading your article this a.m. and seeing the history of amoral behaviour from this twat, it would appear that thinking is definitely a rare thing. I am hoping faintly that he will get arrested for something, like public endangerment - anything really. Coz he should be locked up. Key thrown. Nasty piece of works.
I don't know if he's likely to be charged with forgery, but those fake fives are the sort of thing which can be accepted by retail workers under pressure.
Folks if you haven't already discovered the YouTube channel "All gas, no brakes" please do yourself a favour and go check it out. Truly amazingly stuff.
Oh my gosh yes!!!
Hell yeah
Given your introductory remarks, David, ('fuck you, sincerely'), there was never any chance that Andrew or Safety Warehouse would respond in a useful way. Maybe if you'd been addressing someone sensible.... But just like me yesterday, telling someone he was a fuckwit, the thing about fuckwits is that they're not usually capable of taking that information on board.
I sympathise completely with your feelings, but you do seem to have blown a chance to get some useful information out of these clowns.
I worry a little David, you seem to have let your anger take precedence over your journalism a few times lately. Completely understandable and natural, but ultimately not good for either your work or your personal life. Just my outside opinion, of course.
Sometimes it's necessary to take a break from confronting the darkness of humanity.
Hey Chris, not angry - just passionate about this one. I think I am pretty fair all things considered.
But yes - I do get angry about certain things, racism, homophobia, that kind of thing. I am not quite sure what emotion you'd like me to have for this things? I am certainly not going to sit back and go "oh, who cares".
But my reporting I like to think is reasoned and backed up by fact.
My work and my personal life are okay, thanks - but I appreciate your concern.
I'd also add - I think I got plenty of useful information out this guy. Maybe you think otherwise, but it all seems pretty telling. And if you're main takeaway from this is my approach to him - then I'm not quite sure what to say.
Well, my main takeaway is that the guy is even more of a plonker than early reports indicated. Seems more like a malicious scammer than a naïve fool. I'm just a bit sad that an opportunity may have been lost - give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves, and all that - however I acknowledge that you're in a far better position to judge that than I am.
As far as your emotional response is concerned, we have whatever emotions we may have. That's not something anyone can or should try to dictate, least of all a stranger on the Internet. If you judge that the way you harness your outrage is the most healthy and productive you can, then perhaps that's all your readers should hope for. Certainly I have nothing further to suggest.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Chris. Appreciate your reasoned thoughts! David.
I read this article and I see yet another narcissist at play. See how a narcissist immediately applies the victim to themselves rather than the villain. Seems to be a lot around at the moment.
No offense to all of the wonderful kiwis and of course, David, but damn NZ is SMALL! It almost seems like everyone knows everyone else. Seems it would make it much harder to be a dick, since everybody is your neighbor. But then again, evidently not. Great letter once again. Cheers!!
It's so, so small Phillip. It's nauseating sometimes.
I am conflicted.
Definitely a weird promotion. Definitely some suspect descriptions in the promotional material. But also definitely something where you *should* apply some skepticism and think about whether it's likely $100k would just be given away like that, read some the fine print, see the word 'value' and go "ah, I see".
But also definitely something anyone planning such an event should be aware of is that there are many people who get taken in by scams and are vulnerable to such manipulation.
The responses of the company, public and private, definitely slate them firmly in the genre of grade A asshole.
I think the issue comes down to the demographics that things like this target. It's deeply cynical and awful, and gives me the creeps!
Cash drops are absolutely a thing that has really happened. If a seemingly-real business says they are dropping $100k then it's not unreasonable to believe them, especially when it's taking place somewhere like Aotea Square that they've clearly paid to hire and fence off.
They had options about how they chose to promote the event, and they went for a deliberately deceptive approach that led people to believe $100,000 in cash would be raining from the sky. And it's not like they didn't know that's how people were interpreting it. People were commenting about their hopes for the money and the difficulties they were facing.
I didn't see all that but can believe it, and that's definitely what they wanted people to think. Plus they made it look like money.
It's not a business I'd heard of before. May they fold faster than a dollar bill something analogy something something.
Bugger this guy's a dick is it an actual company or just him as the ideas person. I can't share this as I think he's had enough limelight and because he's so fucking depressing.
People like this are too stupid to actually think about what they’re dangerous actions may do to others. The stunt was grotesque and put people’s lives in danger. A huge FUCK YOU to the “Safety” Warehouse is warranted.
*their
Dick move by them.
I wonder if his company received the covid subsidy. Would hate to think that my tax money is spent on people like this.