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Hello Webworm! Thanks for having me here again. This is one of my favourite places on the internet, and I’m happy to discuss anything that came up in my article (or any of the previous ones!)

I wanted to quickly pop a couple of caveats on the article because it’s hard to do in text when it’s already a bit much! The first is, when I say “crypto is fucked” or “Twitter is fucked” I don’t necessarily mean that they’re going to disappear tomorrow. That’d be a risky prediction! I wouldn’t be surprised if both lingered on for a good while yet. What I mean is that they are profoundly dysfunctional, and that the dysfunction is apparent to pretty much everyone, and they can’t easily be fixed - if they can be fixed at all.

The second big one is that I don’t think that Mastodon on its own is a cure-all - there is plenty there that’s problematic! - but I think that federated media might be the start of something much better for internet communication. I just think it’s so weird that we’re completely used to having massive companies spy on is, or that we outsource moderation to teams of contractors who get PTSD for a living. It’s so strange when you think about it! I really recommend the book I mentioned, Chokepoint Capitalism, because it goes into detail about the problems with how megacorps have captured huge swathes of culture and are squeezing creatives (the people who actually make things) for everything they have.

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Thanks so much for this Josh! All of it is so thought-provoking & made me go all introspective... Hi, I’m Dr Sea and I’m a Twitter addict of 13+ years. Since my first run for Parliament (I never wanted to get in, just wanted to help the Greens get more votes!) in 2011, I’ve spent HOURS EVERY DAY on what everyone else seems to regard as “the hellsite”. At one point I ran 6 separate accounts (mostly for various environmental activist groups)! I’ve sent over 100K re/tweets during those years of my addiction. Mostly deeply depressing screams into the void about the irrevocable climate & ecosystem collapse that we seem incapable of caring about. And virtually punching Nazis, TERFs & racists of course. For the dopamine.

And despite witnessing some godawful behaviour (and engaging in my gleeful share of pileups on Nazis, billionaires & climate deniers), my generous block button and the fact that I never had that many followers (under 4000) meant I somehow got away with flying under the radar, and never really had bad personal interactions. I also tried to never feed the trolls, just block them.

And I made a ton of friends on Twitter - quite a few I ended up meeting IRL. There was something in the pre-2016 Twitter that made it so much easier making trusted, deep connections with strangers. I don’t know what that secret sauce was but I know it’s not there anymore - especially since “Elon Musk bought Twitter and immediately — this is the best and most accurate metaphor I can come up with — scraped his ass all over it, like a dog with worms.” Thanks for this visceral image that I shall never get out of my head, ever!!!

I guess what I’m trying to verbalise here is my anguish about losing access to something that played such a massive part in my daily life for over a decade. I know it’s dying (and prolly has been, pre-Elon, although he really managed to deliver its death blow in some form of public tyrannicide / virtual mass slaughter - it’s almost a privilege to have been witness to that hopefully self-immolating spectacle!), I know I need to move to Mastodon or Post (although at the moment I’m too busy reading all the latest Elon scandals & memes on the dying embers of Twitter), and I’m so glad that Substack has so many of my favourite tweeps writing in long form and who I can directly support now. I agree that Webworm is the greatest, kindest, smartest place on the internet & my sanctuary too.

But I shall deeply mourn the death of Twitter. And hopefully rejoice, in hindsight, in regaining so many hours of my life, reducing my chronic neck pain & improving my mental health by letting go of this addiction, once and for all.

Great piece! ❤️‍🔥

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I think it's pretty normal to mourn the death or decay of something that helped you find your people. Ideally, whatever it is that's emerging now will make creating and finding community easier, and much less fraught (with fewer addiction / aimless engagement mechanisms to boot.) I think this will be easier if we're all upfront about what the good things are that we need out of emerging media, and in pitching together to help build them. I don't necessarily mean coding them - that's not an ability I have either - but in actually doing the mahi of creating and curating community.

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Thanks Josh! Good advice :) I liked Jessica’s take on this too: https://jessicalexicus.medium.com/maybe-killing-twitter-was-the-point-51eda25774a8 She highlights just how important Twitter is to ordinary people. I try not to hate - especially not people I’ll never meet. But I deeply loathe and despise Musk for what he’s doing...

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Hi Josh, I tried setting up a mastodon.nz account but had trouble getting the format of the username right. Any tips? Thanks!

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Hm. The username format looks like this @joshua_drummond@mastodon.nz. It’s @username@server. The only bit I chose was the first part, @joshua_drummond. The rest is just the server I am currently on. Does that make sense?

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Joshua's username as he entered it when signing up would just be "joshua_drummond"

So yours would be similar. "dansomething" probably.

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Beautiful work.

The internet is a surreal, absurd, maddening hell hole, and I often think I should just leave it... But I can't. It's too fascinating. It's too unique. There's never been anything like it, good or bad.

I worry about what it's doing (and done) to my psyche. I recoil at the misinformation, alternative facts, and downright ignorance. And then I revel in the world's of knowledge and information, or marvel at the convenience and how much smaller the world feels.

I think the internet is awful... And our only hope. We are facing so many problems that are not just local, but affect the entire planet, and we need to work together as a species to fix it. And we've literally NEVER done that. It's not been possible... Until now. The only way we can fix this shit is with the global communication made possible the internet.

But only if we can stop shitposting, doom scrolling, and trolling each other in to oblivion.

It's fascinating (and more than a little horrifying) watching our strange species struggle with these existential problems as we go through the mother of all growing pains. We happen to be alive in what I think is the most interesting of times humans have ever seen.

Thanks to all the writers at Webworm for trying to provide some semblance of perspective in this insane pre apocalypse. It all helps.

I still differ with Josh on one thing though; I still have faith in blockchain tech. Crypto is often a cesspit of awful late stage capitalism, but I still think the technology holds a world of promise for the future... I guess we'll see.

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I ruthlessly curated my twitter feed, and, given that I was never likely to be subjected to the vileness and vitriol that many had to endure, my experience has been mostly positive and very useful for my work. BUT, you are right, Josh, over on mastodon, it feels like the utopian days of the early Internet - a sort of digital Cheers, where everyone knows your name and when you pull up a toot, Norm leans over and you're in a conversation. To extend my oldskool metaphor, being able to choose which bar (instance) you hang out in and understand which lowlifes your bar's bouncer (admins and moderators who run each instance) will kick out, is liberating. I'm only new to mastodon, but already I think that safety is why the conversations are better and you can have them with a more diverse range of people who you have never met. The fact that they are there means that the admin has not kicked them out of the bar, so there is a sort of dick filter in place.

Also, it is cool to be able to be subscribe to instances that are locally run. Like most things I find useful, I pay for my subscription to cloudisland.nz which is run by the inimitable Aurynn (and I see from Josh's post that Tom Eastman is there too so I must look him up - finding people is a little more difficult on mastodon).

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Jeez it sounds like I might even have to get on there!

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Goooood analogy. Wish I'd thought of it! Also, the term "dick filter" will now live in my head and vocabulary for the rest of forever. I balked at paying $8 for Twitter, but didn't hesitate to contribute that much to the moderation team at mastodon.nz.

If you were/are on Twitter, you can use Debirdify or something similar to find the people you were following who have already moved to Mastodon.

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Yeah and now I'm concerned that Aurynn will kick me off for referring to her, effectively, as a dick filter 🤣🤣🤔

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I found this piece exceptionally well written, and heartbreaking. I too remember the hope, unpredictability, and yes, decentralized amorphousness of the Internet when it first began (when it was written with a capital I). I have despaired. I don't know if I have the energy to engage in something new but it seems it's worth it. Oh, and I know someone who lost his life savings to crypto grifters.

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I know a few people, all of them good sorts, who have lost life savings or near equivalents to crypto (one was caught up in the Luna/Terra crash where its value went to zero literally overnight). They woke up one day and everything was gone, and no-one will be held accountable for it. When people get grumpy at me about what I write on crypto they always tell me how the "real" financial system is a grift too - and I agree! I have plenty to say about the badness of neoliberal economics and the madness of markets, but I don't think of crypto as an entirely different system. It's just one of the most visible boils on the dying body of late-stage capitalism.

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ewwww. also, I am stealing the hell out of that.

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Me too - really worried about one friend who already suffered bad depression before that loss 😭

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They got her while she was down. How awful. I'm so sorry.

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Josh! This is so excellent. So much to think about now in a cohesive way rather than just feeling uncomfortable and overwhelmed about how ick this has all been.

Thank you!

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Josh saves my sanity always. I can't keep up with this shit! He can. Proud to have him here!

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David... Are you on "the fediverse" anywhere...?

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I am not.

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Thanks Beck! If there's anything I like doing, it's trying (not always successfully) to think or write about things in a systemic way. There's so much *stuff* in the minute-by-minute chaos that it can be hard to filter what, if anything, the bigger meaning might be. I find it hard too! Writing pieces like this is a big part of how I keep it together, so I'm very grateful to David for giving this stuff such a generous audience .

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and we are so grateful for you doing this mahi to share with us

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Honestly I think it's a good opportunity to quit infinite scrolling hot takes, and get that addiction out. You can work out if you are addicted by contemplating whether you can quit them all cold turkey.

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My in-development rubric for approaching social media is: am I creating, or consuming? Learning, or lingering? Communicating, or curmudgeoning? The last one was a bit of a stretch but hopefully the idea makes sense.

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Now that I've deactivated my Twitter account, I'm considering dipping into Mastodon. The quote "TERFs and transphobia that curse the big social media sites are outright banned“ is a strong selling point.

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Do it by all means, just make sure you pick a carefully moderated instance where TERFs are indeed banned (instead of, for instance, accidentally joining a TERF instance.) If you're in NZ, Cloud Island and mastodon.nz both outright ban transphobia

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Thanks for sharing. I work on a couple crypto projects and I love/hate it. I’m not an investor but I do enjoy that the artists spend a lot of money on printing, can make money off their NFTs. This is on a small blockchain though that doesn’t charge high fees. I made a content creation site that allows the user to post videos and set their price. Get paid in BSV…which is hard to convert to USD, but it was fun to make and another way to let people feel like YouTube stars. The wallet will use USDC which is by Circle pay, supposed to be protected? Besides all of that, I hate the drama behind it and don’t like how celebrities encourage the pyramid schemes. So I don’t know what to think, there are days I would rather write a ghost hunting app lol but I can do both

My kid’s school focuses on Native Americans which I’m glad. They are heavy on Martin Luther King day and talk about slavery & segregation. This is Columbus, Ohio though. More rural areas don’t want to teach these subjects because parents don’t know how to handle hard subjects. My 2nd grader brought this home: Squanto Friend to the Pilgrims. https://imgur.com/a/dT1KGKK

The image you shared from your friend reminds me of the similar material I read in school back in the 90’s in rural NW Ohio.

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I want to see a ghost hunting app!

I know a lot of people who work in crypto, or who've worked on it. We've had some good discussions. Artists have told me they feel privately worried about the fact they've done work for crypto sites or NFT sellers and I think they're a bit surprised when I say: I don't care. Everyone has to eat!

What I don't like, and will never like, is grifters. People doing what they can to stay afloat with no real harm done is one thing, but anyone who sets out to rip off others can rot. And this is why I come down so hard on crypto, because it's enabled intentional grifting (and unintentional folly!) on a colossal scale.

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Fantastic piece, Joshua! Definitely hit a little too close to home in a lot of spots. Social media is so incredibly ingrained in our lives and it's hard to break the cycle. It's terrifying to be honest. I've signed up for Mastodon but am reluctant to try it and get sucked into something new again. I'm mostly on Twitter just to watch it implode but it's also a nightmare to watch in real time. In regards to Thanksgiving, David, I enjoy the food (I love cooking!) and the fellowship of it all but struggle with the violent history associated with it. It's a balance of being thankful for what we have now and acknowledging the awful atrocities commited.

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Seeing you made the move Josh gave me the impetus to brave this new world of Mastodon. Its a bit confusing at first, not as hand-held, but it's all good!

I am @marz99@mastodon.nz

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When I hear of Thanks Giving" I think of "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" which I first read in my 20s and I am now rereading along with One Blood which documents the relationship between the Aborigines and early settlers and missionaries in Australia. Both are hard reading for they do not flinch at recording the atrocities committed as colonialism spread its shadow across the lands of the first nation people. Not only were there mass killing and theft of land, Australian settlers in the frontier areas would kidnap women and young girls to be used as sex slaves. No age was too young for the depraved white colonists. While some stood up against this behaviour, their voices were silence by the greed, avarice and depravity of the majority who hungered for land, gold and women.

In the USA, the abhorrent doctrine of manifest destiny justified the murder of the first nation people and the theft of their land. The equally abhorrent doctrine of the curse of Ham justified the enslavement and transportation of Africans. Yet to have an honest discussion about this history is to be accursed of being a "Critical Race Theorist" which has become a shibboleth for anything that critiques the mythology of America as a land of justice, freedom and harmony. White school children need to be protected from the truth, lest they be ashamed of their country and being white. Better, then, to have a sanitised history which reinforces national myths, than be confronted with the uncomfortable truths of our history. But the blood of the innocent victims of colonialism and manifest destiny cry out for justice and no matter how hard the protectors of myth try, the truth has and will come out.

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Blockchain technology will never be decentralized because it will never be standardized. Decentralization is a myth-- a pitch for a product that cannot exist, because nobody will agree.

Thousands of blockchains, thousands of cryptocurrencies, spawned all from bickering and disagreements, 90% of which are stored on some server in a dude's closet, some dude totally convinced he's the REAL decentralized hero, despite being entirely centralized unto himself. A true libertarian utopia.

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Daaaavvvvviiiiidddd!!!!!!! Just got my ticket for the Perth showing of Mister Organ. CAN. NOT. WAIT!!!!!!

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See you on Zoom :)

Really glad we got cinemas screens in Australia. Wish I could be there in person, but Zoom is second best.

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Great article, thanks Josh and David!

Was just reading a Guardian piece on Mastodon yesterday after noticing that @seditiontrack had shifted alliegance from Twitter. Kindof glad crypto is circling the drain, last year I spent time during the big lockdown practicing crypto trading then finally landed on collecting CNFT art/trinkets, which I quickly grew tired of because it encourages watching a screen every waking moment. I fully endorse outdoor activities and adventures as antidotes to the soul-drain the internet provides, nothing fills my tank as successfully as living on the wilderness edge.

I appreciate the comment quote included at the end of the article, David. Cheers!

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Cheers to you for making it. Warmed my wee cold heart.

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The Arise podcast was fantastic! The Panel was brilliant - they gave me hope in NZ again. I liked the compassion they showed for those who join Megachurches genuinely wanting to follow Jesus. And the depth of knowledge and understanding they had on the complexity of the issues that surround Megachurches.

Also, how does Mastadon work? How is it funded and maintained? What's the risk it will go like Twitter or Reditt when it reaches a certain size?

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Mastodon isn't a network like Twitter. It's more like software that's used to create networks. I could, technically, create and host my own Mastodon network. So can anyone else (who cares to spend a few hours or days poking around the Linux command line). Because of this capability, the network can in theory scale pretty much indefinitely. It's all run by volunteers, the software is free and open source, and there are no ads. There's a lot to like.

Does this raise the question of "if anyone can start a network, does that mean Nazis can?" Yes it does, and yes they can. This is dealt with by moderators, who keep a careful eye out for bad instances, or even instances that *tolerate* fascism. They can be blocked wholesale. This ability is causing ructions right now now, with arguments about some instances being too block-heavy, but I think zero tolerance for fascism is absolutely the right stance. The instance I'm on has also banned transphobia, which is fantastic. A prominent New Zealand woman joined the same instance and was amazed when her posts didn't attract leagues of hateful reply-guys.

If it all sounds a bit messy, it is! This stuff is relatively new and developing quickly. But ultimately I'm much more prepared to tolerate a bit of UX friction than I am to put up with fascists.

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Thank you so much for explaining this, Josh. I'm going to go and find more about how this works (I have lots of questions that I won't bother you with). I would also tolerate a bit of UX friction to avoid fascists. If you know of any good explainers, I'd be grateful to know where to read more. Thanks again, Josh!

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The two best explainers I have seen (linked in my article, but easy to miss!) are https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-get-started-use-mastodon/ and https://fedi.tips/

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Thanks Josh - I did miss them at first, but not this time!

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I feel I really lucked out on getting that panel together. It was my first choice and it all worked out! I don't know how, but the heavens were smiling on me apparently.

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I like to think God/Yahweh/Allah/flying spaghetti monster/insert your monotheistic supreme creator here supports any work that aims to purge grifters like John Cameron from stuff done in Their (does god support non-gendered pronouns?) name. Surely you don't have to be Christian/Jewish/Muslim/insert name of religion here to occasionally garner Their divine intervention? ? haha The Persians used to go to Delphi and pray to the Greek pantheon/ask Apollo his advice when they were in Greek lands. . wish the modern world was as promiscuous and un-siloed when it comes to religion. Imagine David just chucking a prayer in to God while he's passing through the Bible Best and then flicking a new prayer off to (the?) Tiān when he's in North East China (soz I don't know much about which Chinese states are more into Confucianism).

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I’m kind of relieved that crypto is fucked because I never really understood it and always got annoyed at people obsessing over it...I feel the same way about the stock market though and that’s like...a real thing...so maybe I should change...It’s all just so boring and annoying to me.

I’m also a weirdo that doesn’t have Twitter but is enjoying watching the chaos unfold via instagram and tiktok 🙃

Also - I grew up in Wisconsin and most people there have never been taught anything true about Native Culture at all. I didn’t learn until I went to college and took a class on Native History.

I live in LA now and most people are aware the Thanksgiving story is a myth but also have no idea who’s land we’re on.

I’m celebrating Thanksgiving on Tongva land.

America is very flawed. 🦃

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I think LA is such a bubble (NY too I suppose - those coasts eh) but what kids are taught (and not taught) in the middle kinda terrifies me. No wonder we're stuck in an infinite loop.

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IMO the stock market is almost as cooked as crypto (in some ways, it might be worse!) Been trying to write up something about neoliberal economics for ages but mate, if you thought crypto was complicated... it absolutely does my head in.

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Anything that is as tightly regulated as the stock market *must* be inherently crooked.

If it was clean they wouldn’t need the vast number of laws that do exist (and “respectable” people still regularly get jailed for breaking).

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Can’t wait for when you do manage to write about it! I know it’ll be EPIC 😍

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