Hi - if any churches respond this week, I will publish their emails here at the top of the comments thread.
This one from Peter Mortlock of City Impact came in yesterday. I debated including it in the main article, but he didn't answer my question so I didn't. But in the purposes of full transparency, here it is. If anything, I think it's an example of how on-side with Destiny they are.
This is not a fact checking thing, but in this case the "opposing side" was library staff and kids minding their own business. And as my friend commented: "He is talking about a drag King. They don't seem to be able to figure out what he is, but he's a trans man. Just find it funny they don't actually know exactly what they're fuming about. They're all just bumbling around being like "Down With This Sort Of Thing!"
**
"Hi David,
Trust you are well.
Thanks for reaching out, I am sure you have some understanding of my thoughts.
No body likes to see or hear of violence at protests. I have said that a number of times on my posts etc,
Sadly on the front lines of protests, things can get heated and t times out of control especially when there are opposing sides.
Hence the present police review on how to monitor / police protests better especially in the wake of the Rosie Parker protests March 23.
But it is interesting that there was not the same outcry heard when that crowd demonstrated violence (at the Rosie Parker gathering which I am sure you heard about.)
Can I ask you a sincere personal question David, are you supportive of the “drag queens” reading in public libraries to preschoolers ? (as my understanding is that many even in the gay community are also opposed to it )
To be clear, since Peter asked, I'm completely in favor of anyone, in any choice of outfit or costume, who is willing to take the time and effort to spend with youth and help them become more literate and educated. Whether that's Mr. Rogers, a catholic priest, Bozo the clown, a drag persona, a friendly grandmother, a librarian in a squirrel costume, or an excited young new college graduate. And sometimes it takes a bit more color and personality to engage youngsters, and those who have the energy and interest to do that should be celebrated and appreciated.
I use that all the TIME. Particularly of late in reference to Eftpostle
See: "Fuck, that Eftpostle bigot God Botheror is such a See You Next Tuesday"
Note: I have no problem with religion - you do you. When you start fucking things up and enforcing your stuff onto others, that's where I draw the line
And also, if anyone is sick of organized religion go be a Pastafarian. For a satire religion my uncle joined, it's the most accepting and tolerant one I've ever found. Plus, pasta.
There's an excellent meme which I can't put in the comments, but it features photos of Robin Williams, Barbra Streisand, Tim Curry, Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis, Tyler Perry, Jamie Farr, Dame Edna, Julie Andrews, Tom Hanks and Peter Scolari, and Dustin Hoffman - with the caption:
You've been entertained by drag your whole life. Don't pretend it's a problem now.
Peter is clearly a great preacher who can inspire feelings just by using his words ...because I feel significantly more gross just from reading his non-reply reply 🤮
This is politics, not religion. These are VERY CLEARLY the words of someone doing politics. That response has nothing to do with the Bible or the teachings of Jesus and everything to do with power and probably money, too.
Like I understand what people are saying about the “differences” but really there isn’t. If Peter MoreCock can’t easily come out and condemn Destiny’s behaviour then they’re all sitting in the tent together. The fact he even poses the question at the end of his email is sign enough of where their values lie.
For a religion that is supposed to be all about loving thy neighbour and that teaches a wealthy man cannot get into heaven, you gotta wonder if anyone involved in these awful megachurches have even read the bible. But hey, hating trans and queer folks for the Big Dollars is surely exactly what Jesus wanted from his followers, right?
Thank you for continuing to report on their bigotry!
I once asked my dad's very religious parents about their Bible. Because they did not seem to know some commandments that I saw in my Old Testament read before I had to put it away. They were 70+ and devout Catholics (since I come from Catholic country) their whole life. And their Bible bordered on having less text vs illustrations ratio than the "Children Bible" I read at approx age 7 or 8 had. They only knew what their priest and the (Children level) Bible said. It was a depressing but enlightening moment
Yesterday … I was talking to this older man. (Backstory: I hold the view that the world’s problems are caused by old white males). I kept this view to myself and as it turns out unnecessarily. Within a few minutes the older guy blurted out that he thought that most of the world’s problems are caused by old white men.
I was a Christian once and still think there was probably a guy called Jesus who walked around doing good things and that the guys who hung out with him were on the whole, kind. Then, a bunch of old white males created a bunch of rituals and rules and spoiled the whole thing. It could have been so different.
For having the insight and guts to report on these toxic and sick massively rich and white mega churches.
It truly sickens me to the stomach that Destiny Church thinks they have the right to storm into the Te Atatu library where I use to live and not allow young people to express their free will.
I use to sit inside City Impact church and listen to Peter Mortlock waving his hands in the air, and talk about not tithing ten percent at least, otherwise you were cheating GOD. As he was doing it his fingers are wearing large diamond gold rings, along with a thick gold chain around his neck and another thick gold bracelet.
On the way out, he's there at the door to shake the hands of members. I had to tell him I had never seen a Pastor before adorned like him in Jewellery.
His answer was God rewards those that spread the word and live by the word.
All I could think driving home was, I wonder what such a humble, truly spiritual man as Jesus, the son of God, would have to say about that?
I agree with you overall. The bigger white churches are less prone to overt thuggery but they're no less dangerous. Their behaviour is more insidious. What pisses me off about Destiny is how they're targeting vulnerable people, especially Māori. Those Man Up idiots are behaving like a gang. Places like the Celebration Centre in Christchurch and Arise, City Impact etc. are still doing dangerous crap. It's just less visible. I am told that community funders won't touch the charities associated with Celebration Centre for a very good reason.
I totally agree. And the big issue is that if NZ police and politicians etc won't even sort out Destiny who openly intimidate and assault people then what is going to happen to these other 'churches'.
It also is probably quite beneficial for the mega churches to have destiny doing the 'dirty work' as they can point and say, well we're not like them' even though they are - except for the physical assault. Keeps the light pointed elsewhere.
Id hope this is the beginning of a larger conversation with regards to the ridiculous tax free status all churches currently have. Or at least better regulations regarding why they are tax free and what they do with the money.
I hope so, too. Seeing New Zealand so annoyed at Destiny's behaviour - and falling for it's tax status to change - is SO great.
My worry, as started in this piece, is that leaders like Luxon have typically belonged to this breed of Christianity. So change would really surprise me.
Ugh, they're all rotten to the core, it's just Tamaki's mob have this whole "man up" bullshit going on that encourages actual physical violence. And the worst culprit for racially charging Destiny Church... Tamaki himself. He specifically preys on Māori men (and young ones at that) to foster this garbage toxic masculinity of "we must protect" - when they are the ones people need protection from. And don't get me started on how entwined in ALL of these churches sexual predation on minors is too. Not that it stops at the church, as you say, it has seeped it's way into the political arena too.
There is a list going around at the moment that shows the names of Church leaders convicted of sexual misconduct of some form with minors, vs an empty list of drag performers with the same convictions. THAT says it all.
It’s not just Destiny, or the other churches. This homophobic/anti-trans narrative is making inroads through covert yet familiar secular groups. Check out the “Let Kids Be Kids” group - full of “concerned” parents, “just asking questions” and going on roadshows around Aotearoa to spread a message of intolerance and hate cloaked in concern for child safety. They’re advocating book bans linked to Pride Week reading lists, urging protest against sexual education curricula… and who’s behind it? Ani O’Brien, the Reality Check Radio folks… all packaged with slick websites… parents are circulating links at our North Shore school and urging parents to “do their own research” — sound familiar????
Ick. However, I note that Let Kids Be Kids share Family First resources, and founder Penny talks on Bob McCoskrie's show. Bob, and Brian Tamaki, link to and applaud the work of LKBK. LKBK go on about Parental Authority, which is.... Surprise! A "God-given" Authority. Not sure this outfit is giving off completely secular vibes.
I believe that the places like Arise, City Impact, and Hillsong (whom I do not know at all, aside from the posted stories here) are using Destiny in the exact same way that China uses North Korea - a smaller proxy that can do the things they want to do without having to take the negative blowback directly from having done those actions themselves. Without the proxy that's willing to take the heat they would have to do that themselves, and probably would, but instead get to hide behind the proxy doing that kind of actions on their behalf.
Sounds like Destiny is one step away from being like QAnon (maybe already there) and having a Pizzagate episode.
You simply cannot say that you keep your politics and religion separate. This is identical to saying that you keep your politics and your principles separate. Your religion/principles dicate (or should!) how you vote and which political party you join. All of life's choices are essentially political and, indeed, until people start facing up to this, we will continue to sleepwalk towards the breakdown of our earth systems and our society.
All these maga churches are appalling. I thought the whole point of Protestantism was that you didn't require a priest or leader to mediate between you and God. So why do "Christians" even need a church? (I use the inverted commas because most of these people seem much more closely aligned with the Old Testament than the New Testament of Christ. Or Jesus as they prefer to call him, being as how they're such good buddies.)
Religion saves most people from having to face and answer existential questions themselves. For the majority, it's a lazy cop-out.
I used to take my daughter to readings at the library when she was small and the idea of these assholes storming in and terrifying her made me feel that material rage that never leaves you. How dare they. They are turning up everywhere these days and I've had enough. They are in my ACC sensitive claims Facebook groups(a group to help guide you through getting therapy and help), telling people it's ok to use Christian counsellors, I told people they don't have to listen to that and one of them told me I should leave the group. I won't because I will always help victims. Now they are in all my Royal Commission State and Faith based survivors groups, sprouting all this offensive Christian shit. One was friends with that guy who during the government apology he has made a ruckus, well she was friends with him and told us to all support him, well hell no!!!! They get so angry with us and yet we are not allowed to get angry with them. They keep shutting me down. It is so fucking exhausting as I'm just trying to make sure everyone is kept safe and now there is no safe spaces. They keep saying they have a right to be everywhere, but don't see the goddam irony that it is also about faith based abuse as well.
😱Unfortunately "safe spaces" like here where those "christians who aren't " can be blocked, are not where people go - it is still FB that they think of. I am a member of a "group" but a moderator has to approve access & can remove people and /or posts 🤷 I'm guessing yours is open so people can find you ⁉️🤔 So toxic that these people insert themselves everywhere 🤬
This is why I was very hesitant to support the "strip destiny of their tax free status" 😞 as it is a giant copout to all the other churches depositing regular abuse on people (not just queers), and creates a precident to strip entitlments as a punishment for anything. The Salvation Army is just as abusive as Destiny and other big and small church teachings, but they do great community work (in exchange for conversions and good will).
This silence is very damning for Vinyard churches, they are a betrayal of everything worthwhile and exposing themselves as worthless trash for the town pile (hell metaphore).
Anyone who uses the "but you didnt condem the Posie Parker (trans hate speaker disguised as womens rights) protest violence" tit-for-tat response as good as admits they suckle at the teet of Tamaki violence, and simp for international mega-church sponsorship.
As well as community work, Salvation Army leaders have also been doing a lot of work to become safer for, and to seek reconciliation with, the Rainbow community. Destiny... not so much. Not sure if the Sallies are funneling tithing into a leader's mansions etc either.
I think church tax free charity status needs to be treated like the Jobseeker benefit. They have to apply for it every year, prove they've applied their help in the community at least 6 times a week, have meetings with case managers to make sure they're helping everywhere they can (even if it's not related to their faith), attend mandatory seminars, and if they take in slightly too much money they lose it.
To be fair to these churches admin teams… They likely are too busy on Sundays to respond to press emails, and many likely have a day off on Monday. I hope some eventually respond though. I’ve had the displeasure of visiting multiple of these mega churches for their services, and it gives me such a sick feeling seeing the gross expenditure used to manipulate people’s beliefs. Frankly I don’t understand how any church is allowed to be tax free. Sounds like one giant scam. Surely there should just be a regular tax threshold system based on their donations/income? Jesus said to render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser’s, but churches seem very happy to not have to do that…
I hear you, but also in my experience in communicating with a lot of them over the last three years... it's always crickets.
But I put it to them anyway. They know.
And if it's a staffing issue on Sundays and Mondays (I gave them 48 hours) - then they should rethink the way they abuse interns time, and put some of those millions towards comms staff. Especially when the news has been hot all week. They have to know this shit is coming their way. People are angry - and they should be. If they take in as much money as they do - step up and start taking your role as a business (it is a business and little more) seriously.
Good for you following through with this, David. These guys ALL need to be called to account! The “what aboutism” concerning the anti-trans activist in Mortlock’s reply is significant. He’s on side with Tamaki 100%. And their prosperity doctrine teaching and doctrine of tithing are both so “unbiblical” and so unlike the real teaching of Jesus that it’s a joke.
The New Life stream that I used to be part of still teaches that homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle and a sin condemned by the 6 infamous “clobber passages” in the bible - all taken out of context or all purely written by men for the situation of the day. And what situation was that? Nobody really knows.
Keep calling them to account. I’m with you 100%. They suck and if Jesus were here he’d be turning over the money changers’ tables in the temple in anger just like he did in the temple of the Pharisees. They should all lose their charity status and be taxed because they operate like a business. Period.
Hi - if any churches respond this week, I will publish their emails here at the top of the comments thread.
This one from Peter Mortlock of City Impact came in yesterday. I debated including it in the main article, but he didn't answer my question so I didn't. But in the purposes of full transparency, here it is. If anything, I think it's an example of how on-side with Destiny they are.
This is not a fact checking thing, but in this case the "opposing side" was library staff and kids minding their own business. And as my friend commented: "He is talking about a drag King. They don't seem to be able to figure out what he is, but he's a trans man. Just find it funny they don't actually know exactly what they're fuming about. They're all just bumbling around being like "Down With This Sort Of Thing!"
**
"Hi David,
Trust you are well.
Thanks for reaching out, I am sure you have some understanding of my thoughts.
No body likes to see or hear of violence at protests. I have said that a number of times on my posts etc,
Sadly on the front lines of protests, things can get heated and t times out of control especially when there are opposing sides.
Hence the present police review on how to monitor / police protests better especially in the wake of the Rosie Parker protests March 23.
But it is interesting that there was not the same outcry heard when that crowd demonstrated violence (at the Rosie Parker gathering which I am sure you heard about.)
Can I ask you a sincere personal question David, are you supportive of the “drag queens” reading in public libraries to preschoolers ? (as my understanding is that many even in the gay community are also opposed to it )
I pray the best for you.
Kind regards
Peter"
To be clear, since Peter asked, I'm completely in favor of anyone, in any choice of outfit or costume, who is willing to take the time and effort to spend with youth and help them become more literate and educated. Whether that's Mr. Rogers, a catholic priest, Bozo the clown, a drag persona, a friendly grandmother, a librarian in a squirrel costume, or an excited young new college graduate. And sometimes it takes a bit more color and personality to engage youngsters, and those who have the energy and interest to do that should be celebrated and appreciated.
Amen.
I'm not what this comment is allowed, but in the interest of transparency I am going to throw it down.
What a cunt.
It's allowed.
Or as a group of women we say C U Next Tuesday.
I use that all the TIME. Particularly of late in reference to Eftpostle
See: "Fuck, that Eftpostle bigot God Botheror is such a See You Next Tuesday"
Note: I have no problem with religion - you do you. When you start fucking things up and enforcing your stuff onto others, that's where I draw the line
And also, if anyone is sick of organized religion go be a Pastafarian. For a satire religion my uncle joined, it's the most accepting and tolerant one I've ever found. Plus, pasta.
Satanic Temple is also a good option. The Satanic Temple - Official Website https://search.app/U6cAN5ncBZ9AQD3G8
I dunno, Pastafarians get beer volcanoes and strippers when they pass on, plus they have the 8 "I'd Rather You Didn'ts".
When uncle passed we all had to wear colanders at his service which was pretty funny 🤣
Can't beat a bit of decent Pasta.
Damn Peter, at least get her name right if you're gonna defend her shitty actions lol
haha I love it. It just smacks of the level of laziness.
Oh, he's a slimy prick! "A sincere personal question"!!
The second someone has to state something is sincere... it never, ever is.
Its like the Democratic Republic of Korea.
Yes, it's like those notices I used to see in dairies back in the day
POLITE NOTICE - DO NOT ASK FOR CREDIT AS A REFUSAL MIGHT OFFEND
Or beginning a statement by saying "to be honest ..."
With all due respect.....(NOT)
I'm certain he doesn't know the meaning of the word 'sincere'.
There's an excellent meme which I can't put in the comments, but it features photos of Robin Williams, Barbra Streisand, Tim Curry, Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis, Tyler Perry, Jamie Farr, Dame Edna, Julie Andrews, Tom Hanks and Peter Scolari, and Dustin Hoffman - with the caption:
You've been entertained by drag your whole life. Don't pretend it's a problem now.
Peter is clearly a great preacher who can inspire feelings just by using his words ...because I feel significantly more gross just from reading his non-reply reply 🤮
The ick is high with that one.
This is politics, not religion. These are VERY CLEARLY the words of someone doing politics. That response has nothing to do with the Bible or the teachings of Jesus and everything to do with power and probably money, too.
What a smarmy piece of shit of a reply, Pete.
Indeed. About the only good thing I can find is that he did actually reply.
of course there's whataboutism and minimising ('things getting heated', requires strong leadership to 'reign it in' which was sorely absent).
This response makes my blood boilllll
City Impact - it's much, much bigger than Destiny and much richer. And yes - as you can see, identical beliefs.
Like I understand what people are saying about the “differences” but really there isn’t. If Peter MoreCock can’t easily come out and condemn Destiny’s behaviour then they’re all sitting in the tent together. The fact he even poses the question at the end of his email is sign enough of where their values lie.
Posey parker should never have been allowed into NZ , it is trouble with a Capital T
Peter’s email reeks of insincerity.
For a religion that is supposed to be all about loving thy neighbour and that teaches a wealthy man cannot get into heaven, you gotta wonder if anyone involved in these awful megachurches have even read the bible. But hey, hating trans and queer folks for the Big Dollars is surely exactly what Jesus wanted from his followers, right?
Thank you for continuing to report on their bigotry!
I think they read the Bible but interpret it to align with their own twisted beliefs, then ram it down the throats of their followers.
If you're not already familiar with it, I suspect these churches follow the Gospel of Supply Side Jesus : https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2003/09/the-gospel-of-supply-side-jesus.aspx (links to a 20 frame comic on a single page)
I once asked my dad's very religious parents about their Bible. Because they did not seem to know some commandments that I saw in my Old Testament read before I had to put it away. They were 70+ and devout Catholics (since I come from Catholic country) their whole life. And their Bible bordered on having less text vs illustrations ratio than the "Children Bible" I read at approx age 7 or 8 had. They only knew what their priest and the (Children level) Bible said. It was a depressing but enlightening moment
Yesterday … I was talking to this older man. (Backstory: I hold the view that the world’s problems are caused by old white males). I kept this view to myself and as it turns out unnecessarily. Within a few minutes the older guy blurted out that he thought that most of the world’s problems are caused by old white men.
I was a Christian once and still think there was probably a guy called Jesus who walked around doing good things and that the guys who hung out with him were on the whole, kind. Then, a bunch of old white males created a bunch of rituals and rules and spoiled the whole thing. It could have been so different.
Thank you David,
For having the insight and guts to report on these toxic and sick massively rich and white mega churches.
It truly sickens me to the stomach that Destiny Church thinks they have the right to storm into the Te Atatu library where I use to live and not allow young people to express their free will.
I use to sit inside City Impact church and listen to Peter Mortlock waving his hands in the air, and talk about not tithing ten percent at least, otherwise you were cheating GOD. As he was doing it his fingers are wearing large diamond gold rings, along with a thick gold chain around his neck and another thick gold bracelet.
On the way out, he's there at the door to shake the hands of members. I had to tell him I had never seen a Pastor before adorned like him in Jewellery.
His answer was God rewards those that spread the word and live by the word.
All I could think driving home was, I wonder what such a humble, truly spiritual man as Jesus, the son of God, would have to say about that?
I agree with you overall. The bigger white churches are less prone to overt thuggery but they're no less dangerous. Their behaviour is more insidious. What pisses me off about Destiny is how they're targeting vulnerable people, especially Māori. Those Man Up idiots are behaving like a gang. Places like the Celebration Centre in Christchurch and Arise, City Impact etc. are still doing dangerous crap. It's just less visible. I am told that community funders won't touch the charities associated with Celebration Centre for a very good reason.
I totally agree. And the big issue is that if NZ police and politicians etc won't even sort out Destiny who openly intimidate and assault people then what is going to happen to these other 'churches'.
It also is probably quite beneficial for the mega churches to have destiny doing the 'dirty work' as they can point and say, well we're not like them' even though they are - except for the physical assault. Keeps the light pointed elsewhere.
Id hope this is the beginning of a larger conversation with regards to the ridiculous tax free status all churches currently have. Or at least better regulations regarding why they are tax free and what they do with the money.
I hope so, too. Seeing New Zealand so annoyed at Destiny's behaviour - and falling for it's tax status to change - is SO great.
My worry, as started in this piece, is that leaders like Luxon have typically belonged to this breed of Christianity. So change would really surprise me.
But we can hope. And we can be angry.
Why does Sanitarium have tax free status?
Because they are owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Church = tax free
Religion is a fucking cancer
I think organised religion is. Having your own belief system is fine but it's all about propogation of those beliefs aka proselytizing
Ugh, they're all rotten to the core, it's just Tamaki's mob have this whole "man up" bullshit going on that encourages actual physical violence. And the worst culprit for racially charging Destiny Church... Tamaki himself. He specifically preys on Māori men (and young ones at that) to foster this garbage toxic masculinity of "we must protect" - when they are the ones people need protection from. And don't get me started on how entwined in ALL of these churches sexual predation on minors is too. Not that it stops at the church, as you say, it has seeped it's way into the political arena too.
There is a list going around at the moment that shows the names of Church leaders convicted of sexual misconduct of some form with minors, vs an empty list of drag performers with the same convictions. THAT says it all.
And the man up gang is getting tax payer funds to help 'rehabilitate' violent men via the police and courts. Absolutely insane.
It’s not just Destiny, or the other churches. This homophobic/anti-trans narrative is making inroads through covert yet familiar secular groups. Check out the “Let Kids Be Kids” group - full of “concerned” parents, “just asking questions” and going on roadshows around Aotearoa to spread a message of intolerance and hate cloaked in concern for child safety. They’re advocating book bans linked to Pride Week reading lists, urging protest against sexual education curricula… and who’s behind it? Ani O’Brien, the Reality Check Radio folks… all packaged with slick websites… parents are circulating links at our North Shore school and urging parents to “do their own research” — sound familiar????
Ick. However, I note that Let Kids Be Kids share Family First resources, and founder Penny talks on Bob McCoskrie's show. Bob, and Brian Tamaki, link to and applaud the work of LKBK. LKBK go on about Parental Authority, which is.... Surprise! A "God-given" Authority. Not sure this outfit is giving off completely secular vibes.
You went deeper than I could stand to go and found more rot.
I stand corrected.
Thanks for looking into the abyss.
I believe that the places like Arise, City Impact, and Hillsong (whom I do not know at all, aside from the posted stories here) are using Destiny in the exact same way that China uses North Korea - a smaller proxy that can do the things they want to do without having to take the negative blowback directly from having done those actions themselves. Without the proxy that's willing to take the heat they would have to do that themselves, and probably would, but instead get to hide behind the proxy doing that kind of actions on their behalf.
Sounds like Destiny is one step away from being like QAnon (maybe already there) and having a Pizzagate episode.
You simply cannot say that you keep your politics and religion separate. This is identical to saying that you keep your politics and your principles separate. Your religion/principles dicate (or should!) how you vote and which political party you join. All of life's choices are essentially political and, indeed, until people start facing up to this, we will continue to sleepwalk towards the breakdown of our earth systems and our society.
All these maga churches are appalling. I thought the whole point of Protestantism was that you didn't require a priest or leader to mediate between you and God. So why do "Christians" even need a church? (I use the inverted commas because most of these people seem much more closely aligned with the Old Testament than the New Testament of Christ. Or Jesus as they prefer to call him, being as how they're such good buddies.)
Religion saves most people from having to face and answer existential questions themselves. For the majority, it's a lazy cop-out.
+1 for maga churches instead of mega churches. I'm stealing that line.
I used to take my daughter to readings at the library when she was small and the idea of these assholes storming in and terrifying her made me feel that material rage that never leaves you. How dare they. They are turning up everywhere these days and I've had enough. They are in my ACC sensitive claims Facebook groups(a group to help guide you through getting therapy and help), telling people it's ok to use Christian counsellors, I told people they don't have to listen to that and one of them told me I should leave the group. I won't because I will always help victims. Now they are in all my Royal Commission State and Faith based survivors groups, sprouting all this offensive Christian shit. One was friends with that guy who during the government apology he has made a ruckus, well she was friends with him and told us to all support him, well hell no!!!! They get so angry with us and yet we are not allowed to get angry with them. They keep shutting me down. It is so fucking exhausting as I'm just trying to make sure everyone is kept safe and now there is no safe spaces. They keep saying they have a right to be everywhere, but don't see the goddam irony that it is also about faith based abuse as well.
😱Unfortunately "safe spaces" like here where those "christians who aren't " can be blocked, are not where people go - it is still FB that they think of. I am a member of a "group" but a moderator has to approve access & can remove people and /or posts 🤷 I'm guessing yours is open so people can find you ⁉️🤔 So toxic that these people insert themselves everywhere 🤬
This is why I was very hesitant to support the "strip destiny of their tax free status" 😞 as it is a giant copout to all the other churches depositing regular abuse on people (not just queers), and creates a precident to strip entitlments as a punishment for anything. The Salvation Army is just as abusive as Destiny and other big and small church teachings, but they do great community work (in exchange for conversions and good will).
This silence is very damning for Vinyard churches, they are a betrayal of everything worthwhile and exposing themselves as worthless trash for the town pile (hell metaphore).
Anyone who uses the "but you didnt condem the Posie Parker (trans hate speaker disguised as womens rights) protest violence" tit-for-tat response as good as admits they suckle at the teet of Tamaki violence, and simp for international mega-church sponsorship.
As well as community work, Salvation Army leaders have also been doing a lot of work to become safer for, and to seek reconciliation with, the Rainbow community. Destiny... not so much. Not sure if the Sallies are funneling tithing into a leader's mansions etc either.
I think church tax free charity status needs to be treated like the Jobseeker benefit. They have to apply for it every year, prove they've applied their help in the community at least 6 times a week, have meetings with case managers to make sure they're helping everywhere they can (even if it's not related to their faith), attend mandatory seminars, and if they take in slightly too much money they lose it.
👏👏👏
To be fair to these churches admin teams… They likely are too busy on Sundays to respond to press emails, and many likely have a day off on Monday. I hope some eventually respond though. I’ve had the displeasure of visiting multiple of these mega churches for their services, and it gives me such a sick feeling seeing the gross expenditure used to manipulate people’s beliefs. Frankly I don’t understand how any church is allowed to be tax free. Sounds like one giant scam. Surely there should just be a regular tax threshold system based on their donations/income? Jesus said to render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser’s, but churches seem very happy to not have to do that…
I hear you, but also in my experience in communicating with a lot of them over the last three years... it's always crickets.
But I put it to them anyway. They know.
And if it's a staffing issue on Sundays and Mondays (I gave them 48 hours) - then they should rethink the way they abuse interns time, and put some of those millions towards comms staff. Especially when the news has been hot all week. They have to know this shit is coming their way. People are angry - and they should be. If they take in as much money as they do - step up and start taking your role as a business (it is a business and little more) seriously.
PS If I sound shitty at you, I am not - I am shitty at these churches!
Good for you following through with this, David. These guys ALL need to be called to account! The “what aboutism” concerning the anti-trans activist in Mortlock’s reply is significant. He’s on side with Tamaki 100%. And their prosperity doctrine teaching and doctrine of tithing are both so “unbiblical” and so unlike the real teaching of Jesus that it’s a joke.
The New Life stream that I used to be part of still teaches that homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle and a sin condemned by the 6 infamous “clobber passages” in the bible - all taken out of context or all purely written by men for the situation of the day. And what situation was that? Nobody really knows.
Keep calling them to account. I’m with you 100%. They suck and if Jesus were here he’d be turning over the money changers’ tables in the temple in anger just like he did in the temple of the Pharisees. They should all lose their charity status and be taxed because they operate like a business. Period.