Webworm answers a very long list of questions from a megachurch about ethics, standards, accountability, impartiality, bias, prejudice, intolerance and bigotry.
Thank you for sharing this. Your patience is incredible and I enjoyed having that level of insight into the websworm processes and community. Super cool.
Their fixation with the words intolerance and bigotry are so ironic. And also the implication that you are somehow being influenced by people who have agendas through financing is hilarious. Being fixated on the power dynamic that occurs when money changes hands really speaks volumes to how they must operate relative to the "donations" from their own congregation. The paranoia is telling.
I also liked how he was like...maybe you need to better understand what Substack is. Just a little condescension for the condescending tone of their whole email.
Mar 8, 2023·edited Mar 8, 2023Liked by David Farrier
Venting time: It infuriates me that these people demand microscopic adherence to a vast system of ethics when they see themselves as being "persecuted", but those same ethics somehow don't apply to them before attention comes their way. This is the playbook perfected by the orange quid-pro-comb-over guy and it completely sucks.
Ummm ... so the first thing that sprang to mind reading the blogger vs journalist line of thinking was the subtle put down about being a “real” journalist. As you mentioned in response, you are trained in this field, have worked in the field and do follow the appropriate code of ethics. My thoughts went to training. Are the ministers “real” ministers? What theology training do they have? What accreditation? What professional code of ethics do they follow (is there one for ministers?). What Independent organisation are they accountable too if people have issues?
Totally. The "blogger" thing is them being condescending to the max. It's almost a trip to see, from grown adults. I mean, that's their PR guy. A professional. He had 4 days and that's what he came back with?
Great set of questions. Their institutional accountability is simply a group of “spiritual advisors” who are a group of like-minded Megachurch pastors. Theological training is minimal (or for some - none at all).
This has always been what turned me off at the start...where is the accountability and training and learning? Anyone can start a church and call themselves a pastor/bishop etc and be accountable to no one, with only their interpretation of the Bible to adher to. Shudder.
Of course accountability doesn't mean that injustices don't happen of course, which is also a horrific thing.
Many pastors and leaders ARE trained. Michael Frost is one. But most of the trained ones don’t end up in mega churches . The church I attend has a congregation under 200. And our pastor has multiple formal qualifications.. Maybe there is a correlation?
When you've said you're a prophet that's all you need. Then the flock just throw their hard earned cash at you although nowadays it's all swipe and Google pay.
I took Kathy’s comment as ironic,but I sort of think of him as the budget version of Tucker Carlson even down to the puzzled/surprised look on his face as if he’s had a follow through after a cough in his rompers 😳😂
Its always amusing to see a church and religion that are intolerant and bigoted in their own right asking for people to be open minded with them. If they really want to feel 'persecuted' they could start paying tax like the rest of us and then claim back any charitable donations...you know to make sure they're actually doing them. I'm an Atheist and if people want to believe in a god, any god, that's perfectly fine and up to them. I simply have an issue with them claiming the moral high ground while being absolute rat bastards or worse to those in their belief group.
It certainly doesn’t help that they’re positioning themselves as “victims of religious intolerance,” when nothing could be further from the truth. Money talks, bullshit walks.
A nice big clean swimming pool would be a refreshing break from the giant pool of megachurch shit that David has been wading through. Ugh - when put like that, as a subscriber I give David permission to spend my sub on taking a break from all that!
"Can you please also disclose how many of Webworm’s financial backers are linked to groups with religious intolerance and bigotry" - surely the answer is, '...to the best if my knowledge, none of my backers are evangelical churches'.
I guess I am one of those intolerant bigots. I admit it, I have an intolerance of large powerful organisations who abuse their members in the name of religion.
Here's hoping there's more than 50% of us claiming no religion on the census so there's zero argument to keep their tax free status, not that I believe they should have it anyway
Agreed. Supposedly, their tax-free status is a consequence of all the "good works" churches do for society, but how does that fit with Prosperity Theology, where the principals have a major incentive to live an ostentatiously wealthy lifestyle? It's not unreasonable to assume that those mansions and limos are a direct result of the eftpos machine doing the rounds during the service.
How else do they earn money? They are career ministers. Everything they have is a direct result of the income they receive from the church. Sure maybe they might have had an inheritance or something - but these people have serious access and serious wealth - mind boggling
Another Christian here applauding your work. Thank you. I'm m so glad that my teenage self recogised the exploitative and predatory behavior of some of the more "exciting" and "hip" churches I was exposed to, and I was led more towards challenging and thought provoking theology, without the exploitation.
“Considering I am carefully addressing all your questions very specifically, I look forward to hearing more about how you will address your culture, processes and treatment of current interns, staff and church members.”
I can’t get over the fact that Life claims to be a “religious minority,” when they’re actually huge, predominantly white, and wealthy. You can’t have it both ways.
I went to life church in 2006. They would send their youth leaders to do bread runs every Thursday to the students at the AUT student hostel. This is where I met my abuser and ex husband who was also a member of life church. I even got baptised under them. It was and always will be toxic and money hungry. And as a subscriber, David and the team here on Webworm keep doing the awesome mahi!
And Fuck’em 😂 they can all stick it! Minority my bloody arse!!
Sorry you had to go through that experience Mereana. Organizations (can't bring myself to call them churches) such as life seem to be absolutely perfect for creating the toxic sludge necessary for abusers and users to thrive - not just at the top, but those underlings (again I would struggle to call them youth leaders) to chose their victims at will - mostly young and vulnerable people. I agree, fuck'em.
Sadly that is the reason that many are there, so they can prey on those who don't know better, and have a structure that perfectly hides their behaviour.
Thank you for sharing this. Your patience is incredible and I enjoyed having that level of insight into the websworm processes and community. Super cool.
Their fixation with the words intolerance and bigotry are so ironic. And also the implication that you are somehow being influenced by people who have agendas through financing is hilarious. Being fixated on the power dynamic that occurs when money changes hands really speaks volumes to how they must operate relative to the "donations" from their own congregation. The paranoia is telling.
I also liked how he was like...maybe you need to better understand what Substack is. Just a little condescension for the condescending tone of their whole email.
Venting time: It infuriates me that these people demand microscopic adherence to a vast system of ethics when they see themselves as being "persecuted", but those same ethics somehow don't apply to them before attention comes their way. This is the playbook perfected by the orange quid-pro-comb-over guy and it completely sucks.
100%! Also not-subtly-at-all insinuating that David is a hired gun masquerading as an independent, with questionable ethics. That’s really low.
I commend you David for being so unemotional in your response to them. I think I’d be yelling at my computer screen.
I was yelling internally :)
Ummm ... so the first thing that sprang to mind reading the blogger vs journalist line of thinking was the subtle put down about being a “real” journalist. As you mentioned in response, you are trained in this field, have worked in the field and do follow the appropriate code of ethics. My thoughts went to training. Are the ministers “real” ministers? What theology training do they have? What accreditation? What professional code of ethics do they follow (is there one for ministers?). What Independent organisation are they accountable too if people have issues?
Totally. The "blogger" thing is them being condescending to the max. It's almost a trip to see, from grown adults. I mean, that's their PR guy. A professional. He had 4 days and that's what he came back with?
Great set of questions. Their institutional accountability is simply a group of “spiritual advisors” who are a group of like-minded Megachurch pastors. Theological training is minimal (or for some - none at all).
This has always been what turned me off at the start...where is the accountability and training and learning? Anyone can start a church and call themselves a pastor/bishop etc and be accountable to no one, with only their interpretation of the Bible to adher to. Shudder.
Of course accountability doesn't mean that injustices don't happen of course, which is also a horrific thing.
Many pastors and leaders ARE trained. Michael Frost is one. But most of the trained ones don’t end up in mega churches . The church I attend has a congregation under 200. And our pastor has multiple formal qualifications.. Maybe there is a correlation?
When you've said you're a prophet that's all you need. Then the flock just throw their hard earned cash at you although nowadays it's all swipe and Google pay.
Great point!
Thanks for that reminder of a mighty NZ journalist
I took Kathy’s comment as ironic,but I sort of think of him as the budget version of Tucker Carlson even down to the puzzled/surprised look on his face as if he’s had a follow through after a cough in his rompers 😳😂
Your description of them is beautiful and I will forever remember this if I see either of them. Thank you for this :)
Yes I read her comment as sarcasm as well, I was agreeing with her sarcasm. Sorry for the confusion :)
🤮
Yeah I'll take a substack "blogger" over a Hosking "journalist" any day.
I am assuming you are being deeply sarcastic Kathy :D
Beyond deeply sarcastic and then some .I'd rather have a giant spider in the shower than listen to him rabbit on.
Its always amusing to see a church and religion that are intolerant and bigoted in their own right asking for people to be open minded with them. If they really want to feel 'persecuted' they could start paying tax like the rest of us and then claim back any charitable donations...you know to make sure they're actually doing them. I'm an Atheist and if people want to believe in a god, any god, that's perfectly fine and up to them. I simply have an issue with them claiming the moral high ground while being absolute rat bastards or worse to those in their belief group.
It certainly doesn’t help that they’re positioning themselves as “victims of religious intolerance,” when nothing could be further from the truth. Money talks, bullshit walks.
You deserve a pool, David.
A GREAT BIG POOL
Or at least a pool room, so that this column can go straight there.
Note to non-Australasians = Make sure you get to watch "The Castle." You will never need to ask for another explanation about our weird culture.
Its the vibe. It's Mabo. It's the constitution.
Best Aussie film of all time 🙌 Ahhh the serenity *bzzzz*
I'd pay some more on my Webworm subscription to help fund David getting a pool!!
A nice big clean swimming pool would be a refreshing break from the giant pool of megachurch shit that David has been wading through. Ugh - when put like that, as a subscriber I give David permission to spend my sub on taking a break from all that!
Absolutely, Olympic-sized too!
YES!!! Especially after the Arise trauma, he deserves somewhere to chillax and restore his soul.
"Can you please also disclose how many of Webworm’s financial backers are linked to groups with religious intolerance and bigotry" - surely the answer is, '...to the best if my knowledge, none of my backers are evangelical churches'.
:)
Your responses to these questions are amazing.
I particularly enjoy the questionnaire for people to fill out affirming that they "are/are not intolerant or a religious bigot."
Also thanks for the reminder.. that Patti Smith song is great.
I will get the questionnaire on the way!
Quick! Like this comment if you are NOT a religious bigot! 😄😄😄
Yes, I we can all fill out that questionnaire!
I would but then theyd have my contacts and who the fuck wants to engage with arseholes on the daily? David is doing god's work so we dont have to.
No, David says it would be a questionnaire HE asks potential new Webworm subscribers 😉
Blimey. It seems unlikely I'd get in, then.
I guess I am one of those intolerant bigots. I admit it, I have an intolerance of large powerful organisations who abuse their members in the name of religion.
I can't believe they tried to claim minority status
Here's hoping there's more than 50% of us claiming no religion on the census so there's zero argument to keep their tax free status, not that I believe they should have it anyway
Agreed. Supposedly, their tax-free status is a consequence of all the "good works" churches do for society, but how does that fit with Prosperity Theology, where the principals have a major incentive to live an ostentatiously wealthy lifestyle? It's not unreasonable to assume that those mansions and limos are a direct result of the eftpos machine doing the rounds during the service.
They’re corporations at this point & should be treated like it.
How else do they earn money? They are career ministers. Everything they have is a direct result of the income they receive from the church. Sure maybe they might have had an inheritance or something - but these people have serious access and serious wealth - mind boggling
That was pushing things a bit, even for them!
Goes nicely with their charity status
Another Christian here applauding your work. Thank you. I'm m so glad that my teenage self recogised the exploitative and predatory behavior of some of the more "exciting" and "hip" churches I was exposed to, and I was led more towards challenging and thought provoking theology, without the exploitation.
I’m glad you called them out on the religious bigotry and intolerance comment. Yuck!
That one was.... a bit of a stretch
“Considering I am carefully addressing all your questions very specifically, I look forward to hearing more about how you will address your culture, processes and treatment of current interns, staff and church members.”
Gold 🤌
Bless you, David and Hayden. Bless you to bits
b l e s s i n g s
I can’t get over the fact that Life claims to be a “religious minority,” when they’re actually huge, predominantly white, and wealthy. You can’t have it both ways.
This feels like a Monday morning at school, with a friend (David) reading us all the juicy texts from their frenemy over the weekend.
I went to life church in 2006. They would send their youth leaders to do bread runs every Thursday to the students at the AUT student hostel. This is where I met my abuser and ex husband who was also a member of life church. I even got baptised under them. It was and always will be toxic and money hungry. And as a subscriber, David and the team here on Webworm keep doing the awesome mahi!
And Fuck’em 😂 they can all stick it! Minority my bloody arse!!
Sorry you had to go through that experience Mereana. Organizations (can't bring myself to call them churches) such as life seem to be absolutely perfect for creating the toxic sludge necessary for abusers and users to thrive - not just at the top, but those underlings (again I would struggle to call them youth leaders) to chose their victims at will - mostly young and vulnerable people. I agree, fuck'em.
And thank you too! Everyone who has been under the Heavy thumb of all fundamentals I give massive kudos to them!
If only I knew better then! But as a mum I know bloody better now!!
Sadly that is the reason that many are there, so they can prey on those who don't know better, and have a structure that perfectly hides their behaviour.
Great response, David. I really appreciate you taking this on.