A little bit distressing that there doesn't seem to be a way through to them until they get permission from someone they trust. Not exactly free thinkers.
I was really hoping that some of these people would see the light. It’s so disappointing to see these messages where they apologise and then go even further down the rabbit hole. Especially with Mary..I think we all know someone like her.
Thank you SO much for allowing them the opportunity to retract some of their hatred. It was heartening to see the sincerity in a small number of the responses, and not at all surprising (though deeply disturbing) to see how desperately people cling to lies for whatever sad reason they may have. Vinny included. That there are a number of toxic narcissists involved in these groups is not a surprise, but the vitriol is always gut wrenching to read and hear. BTK and Vinny use these people like weapons. Some I have sympathy for, others lap it up like cats to milk. Or perhaps, like tigers to blood...... That Soul song - what a perfect way to end the intensity of the story - in much the same way as waiata normalises and calms the atmosphere after korero. It was a relief. Kia kaha.
David you have been courageous In This endeavour and planted a seed with these folks. This is right action. Some of the seeds may just be on rocks but who is to know. It takes time to change views. I love the courteous and straightforward approach. You never know what will come of it. Conversation Can heal
So... do you think the poultry living Vinny is making is barbecued or more of a Kentucky Fried situation?
Seriously though, it's not the ignorance in tech or media literacy that disturbs me here. It's the ignorance combined with the aggressiveness, to a point where these people believe they are actually the ones who are knowledgeable!
You had at your disposal an array of manners with which to reply to these emails. You chose "good faith conversation." I don't really know what to say about that, but I'm impressed. It has made an impression.
These people are telling on themselves right in their direct communications with you: They hate you and your apparently shitty journalism, but it's beyond clear that they don't keep track of your work or social media. The guy who started it all — the one who made the fake complaint — couldn't replicate your writing style believably. The rest of the guys *fell for it.* Then they draw inaccurate conclusions about your typing idiosyncrasies, and the one refers to your "boss" who we know doesn't exist. It's just random hate based on outright lies!
Shouldn't probably egg you on, but: Did you call the alleged Billy TK phone number? [eyeballs emoji]
Wow, that was so incredibly brave, and very revealing about the headspace of those people. I hope lots of friends to support you and kitty therapy helped. Reading this really helpful for me, so I'm glad you had the balls to do it. I have a relative who listens to a white, middle aged ranter in the UK, who thinks the pandemic restrictions are infringing their freedoms and similar bs. Sometimes I overhear bits of it, I'm often aghast. Yesterday a woman called in, made her point about civil liberties, Sweden etc etc, the host then went on to imply she fancied him, that they had some connection, "can't you feel the electricity" 😐 The woman said no repeatedly, sounding a bit deflated, at this point I said to my relative "Is he fucking serious?" Relative laughed, said yes, I ranted about brains, vaginas and misogyny to no avail. I, once again, wondered what drives my relative to listen to this utter crud and this quote at the end of your article answered it completely. "I think that the ideas he expressed are the most troubling of all. Someone fully aware of their own trauma, but not seeing that as a reason to work on themselves. Rather, a reason to lash out at a world imagined. A world of vast conspiracies, cabals and chaos."
Thanks David, for being curious about the human beings involved in conspiracy theories and the respectful way you wrote to them. This, together with the many interesting, funny and wise responses from your subscribers took me to a more reflective place. I thought about the huge influence Rupert Murdoch has had on the politics of Britain, Australia and America. The right wing! I watched “The Rise of the Murdoch Dynasty” and it terrified me that a man like him could negatively influence so many people and keep getting away with it, much as his mate Donald Trump has been doing. If anyone is interested, it is on TVNZ on demand. Here in Aotearoa, wouldn’t it be lovely to invite all the people who managed an apology to you, to sit down, have a cuppa and chat, to help us understand even more, what is so compelling about the ideas and beliefs they now hold. Good on you David for not replicating the attacks, the raging, the abuse, the cynicism.
David, you are an absolute legend. Very much appreciated that you share these interactions with us - it was helpful for me to see some of these people are able to conjure up an apology, despite staring up at the world from the dark rabbit hole. You mention the general distrust in the government and the 'truth-seeking' missions these people see themselves on. Just curious - do you think this mistrust is politically motivated? Would these people be happy if 'their guys' were in charge of the country or do you think that they'd still be screaming about 5g towers sucking our brains out no matter who the PM is? I have family who are entrenched in right-wing politics and are also partial to a few conspiracies,...just hopeful that if I find myself having to accept a right-wing led government next election, that I might console myself with 'well at least this might calm them down a bit'?
I can't imagine the emotional energy it took to reply to all these people, and receive their comments, and sometimes reply again. You are incredibly generous with your time and energy, and this is a fascinating and deeply distressing and disappointing look into a plague that (as an American) I thought (I hoped?) was uniquely (disgustingly) American. The kindness you show these people who have given you so little reason to be kind.... Thank you for the intimacy of this particular journalism and best wishes to you. I'm sure you have a strong network of support around you that makes it easier to take these risks and open these very scary doors. Best, Jess
Thanks for that. I don't really know how to feel about the situation, to be honest. I guess I'm a bit sad about it. I know many a Mary.
Everybody likes to feel they belong, that they're in the know, that they are right about something. Whether out of trauma or insecurity, so many feel they need someone else to tell them what *truth* is, what to believe about the world and their experiences, how to interpret life, to explain why shit things happen to good people. They desperately seek someone to lead them out of their darkness, a modern day messiah who can help them make sense of all the chaos and confusion. You know how difficult it can be to shift away from a deeply held belief system, even one that seems to have some cracks (yes, me too). I see the same thing happening here in the some what reserved apologies you received. Jeez, some of them even say they're only apologising because they were told to! There's that fear of letting go, that they'll go to hell if they exit the 'movement'. Been there, done that. More than once.
Phew. This was a phenomenal read. Amazing really. Makes me really pleased to be a subscriber. That sounds like freaking hard work but wow, some very very revealing engagement. Nice work.
I’ve seen people comment about how Americans today would never agree to the things they did to support the war effort in WWII. So many people refuse to wear a simple mask, imagine if they were told to keep their lights out after dark? Or that meat and other foods were going to be rationed? How about giving up your scrap metal? I’m ashamed of how selfish this country has become.
You are so much braver and optimistic than I could be. I believe you did a Good Thing, but it's still depressing how many of them had justifications for thinking there was nothing amiss in the whole situation. Stay well. <3
Roses are red
You're still a grub
I hope you get hit
With a truckfull of love 😘
A little bit distressing that there doesn't seem to be a way through to them until they get permission from someone they trust. Not exactly free thinkers.
I was really hoping that some of these people would see the light. It’s so disappointing to see these messages where they apologise and then go even further down the rabbit hole. Especially with Mary..I think we all know someone like her.
Thank you SO much for allowing them the opportunity to retract some of their hatred. It was heartening to see the sincerity in a small number of the responses, and not at all surprising (though deeply disturbing) to see how desperately people cling to lies for whatever sad reason they may have. Vinny included. That there are a number of toxic narcissists involved in these groups is not a surprise, but the vitriol is always gut wrenching to read and hear. BTK and Vinny use these people like weapons. Some I have sympathy for, others lap it up like cats to milk. Or perhaps, like tigers to blood...... That Soul song - what a perfect way to end the intensity of the story - in much the same way as waiata normalises and calms the atmosphere after korero. It was a relief. Kia kaha.
David you have been courageous In This endeavour and planted a seed with these folks. This is right action. Some of the seeds may just be on rocks but who is to know. It takes time to change views. I love the courteous and straightforward approach. You never know what will come of it. Conversation Can heal
So... do you think the poultry living Vinny is making is barbecued or more of a Kentucky Fried situation?
Seriously though, it's not the ignorance in tech or media literacy that disturbs me here. It's the ignorance combined with the aggressiveness, to a point where these people believe they are actually the ones who are knowledgeable!
You had at your disposal an array of manners with which to reply to these emails. You chose "good faith conversation." I don't really know what to say about that, but I'm impressed. It has made an impression.
These people are telling on themselves right in their direct communications with you: They hate you and your apparently shitty journalism, but it's beyond clear that they don't keep track of your work or social media. The guy who started it all — the one who made the fake complaint — couldn't replicate your writing style believably. The rest of the guys *fell for it.* Then they draw inaccurate conclusions about your typing idiosyncrasies, and the one refers to your "boss" who we know doesn't exist. It's just random hate based on outright lies!
Shouldn't probably egg you on, but: Did you call the alleged Billy TK phone number? [eyeballs emoji]
Wow, that was so incredibly brave, and very revealing about the headspace of those people. I hope lots of friends to support you and kitty therapy helped. Reading this really helpful for me, so I'm glad you had the balls to do it. I have a relative who listens to a white, middle aged ranter in the UK, who thinks the pandemic restrictions are infringing their freedoms and similar bs. Sometimes I overhear bits of it, I'm often aghast. Yesterday a woman called in, made her point about civil liberties, Sweden etc etc, the host then went on to imply she fancied him, that they had some connection, "can't you feel the electricity" 😐 The woman said no repeatedly, sounding a bit deflated, at this point I said to my relative "Is he fucking serious?" Relative laughed, said yes, I ranted about brains, vaginas and misogyny to no avail. I, once again, wondered what drives my relative to listen to this utter crud and this quote at the end of your article answered it completely. "I think that the ideas he expressed are the most troubling of all. Someone fully aware of their own trauma, but not seeing that as a reason to work on themselves. Rather, a reason to lash out at a world imagined. A world of vast conspiracies, cabals and chaos."
Thanks David, for being curious about the human beings involved in conspiracy theories and the respectful way you wrote to them. This, together with the many interesting, funny and wise responses from your subscribers took me to a more reflective place. I thought about the huge influence Rupert Murdoch has had on the politics of Britain, Australia and America. The right wing! I watched “The Rise of the Murdoch Dynasty” and it terrified me that a man like him could negatively influence so many people and keep getting away with it, much as his mate Donald Trump has been doing. If anyone is interested, it is on TVNZ on demand. Here in Aotearoa, wouldn’t it be lovely to invite all the people who managed an apology to you, to sit down, have a cuppa and chat, to help us understand even more, what is so compelling about the ideas and beliefs they now hold. Good on you David for not replicating the attacks, the raging, the abuse, the cynicism.
David, you are an absolute legend. Very much appreciated that you share these interactions with us - it was helpful for me to see some of these people are able to conjure up an apology, despite staring up at the world from the dark rabbit hole. You mention the general distrust in the government and the 'truth-seeking' missions these people see themselves on. Just curious - do you think this mistrust is politically motivated? Would these people be happy if 'their guys' were in charge of the country or do you think that they'd still be screaming about 5g towers sucking our brains out no matter who the PM is? I have family who are entrenched in right-wing politics and are also partial to a few conspiracies,...just hopeful that if I find myself having to accept a right-wing led government next election, that I might console myself with 'well at least this might calm them down a bit'?
I can't imagine the emotional energy it took to reply to all these people, and receive their comments, and sometimes reply again. You are incredibly generous with your time and energy, and this is a fascinating and deeply distressing and disappointing look into a plague that (as an American) I thought (I hoped?) was uniquely (disgustingly) American. The kindness you show these people who have given you so little reason to be kind.... Thank you for the intimacy of this particular journalism and best wishes to you. I'm sure you have a strong network of support around you that makes it easier to take these risks and open these very scary doors. Best, Jess
Thanks for that. I don't really know how to feel about the situation, to be honest. I guess I'm a bit sad about it. I know many a Mary.
Everybody likes to feel they belong, that they're in the know, that they are right about something. Whether out of trauma or insecurity, so many feel they need someone else to tell them what *truth* is, what to believe about the world and their experiences, how to interpret life, to explain why shit things happen to good people. They desperately seek someone to lead them out of their darkness, a modern day messiah who can help them make sense of all the chaos and confusion. You know how difficult it can be to shift away from a deeply held belief system, even one that seems to have some cracks (yes, me too). I see the same thing happening here in the some what reserved apologies you received. Jeez, some of them even say they're only apologising because they were told to! There's that fear of letting go, that they'll go to hell if they exit the 'movement'. Been there, done that. More than once.
Keep up the good work, mate.
Phew. This was a phenomenal read. Amazing really. Makes me really pleased to be a subscriber. That sounds like freaking hard work but wow, some very very revealing engagement. Nice work.
I’ve seen people comment about how Americans today would never agree to the things they did to support the war effort in WWII. So many people refuse to wear a simple mask, imagine if they were told to keep their lights out after dark? Or that meat and other foods were going to be rationed? How about giving up your scrap metal? I’m ashamed of how selfish this country has become.
Thank you for all you’ve doing David
"It shows you did it David it has your email address on it". Duh.
ANYTHING can be evidence apart from actual science, right?
Also, "poultry living" :D I loved that bit.
You are so much braver and optimistic than I could be. I believe you did a Good Thing, but it's still depressing how many of them had justifications for thinking there was nothing amiss in the whole situation. Stay well. <3