I forgot to mention one of my favourite things I stumbled across: a 'carnivore pizza', where the base was made from ground up chicken, then they chucked some steak on top hahaha
I’ve noticed, via my two sons (19&20) this interest in men’s body ideals. I see it in their (sometimes) what feels like obsession over their clothing and hair choices and for my oldest in his attendance at a gym most days. Mostly I’m ok with it for them and we regularly talk about moderation and when I get sent pics of ‘bro dinner’ which usually involves steak and eggs, I’m always being that mum who texts backs applauding a great meal and noting the addition of veg. I’ve also seen my eldest move from GYM.EVERY.DAY. to a more relaxed approach when he started a new job he loved.
But this piece resonated with me - women have been dealing with diet culture every where, all the time, consistently. And it’s tiring and insidious and overwhelming to the point where it just becomes normalised. It’s just one of the things that women continually have in their mental load to watch out for, not get sucked in by, be prepared to combat if it’s offered up (by social media, well meaning friends, tv radio magazine ads…) and also talk to our young people about. I feel sad for the men who are now experiencing this toxicity and trust that most too can recognise the rubbish from reality.
What’s interesting is that for them their life and the world they navigate is their normal - so navigating it is just what they do. For me (Gen X), I’m watching from the outside, seeing how different it is and applauding how well they are navigating things which to me are odd, weird and things that sometimes I have to consciously check myself on how I am reacting.
Their inherent acceptance of diversity,ability to be themselves and set strong barriers around work/life amaze me and make me so proud. So much shit out there in the world - but also incredible rangitahi living their best lives. Let’s not forget all the awesome; sometimes we get too sucked in by the ugly.
I work at a consumer co-op, a very expensive health food store that boasts about carrying local items, in Idaho. Like whole foods on steroids. We often talk about this idea of people swinging so far left that they're on the right again. Those are generally the ones fearing vaccines and white people with dreads. Being in the "liberal safe haven" of Boise, but still in the /very/ red state of Idaho, I've watching this switch happen in real time, and it was jarring then. What's just as jarring now is watching MAGA hat wearers all of the sudden obsessing over our Local, Organic, Grass-fed, and Organ blend ground beef. We're also one of the only grocery stores in the area that carries raw milk. The Co-op used to be very left leaning in it's marketing (we used to have very cute store branded "yes, we can" on canning jar shaped stickers); being a co-op is kind of a radical idea for a grocery store. We still employ probably 90% leftist employees, and half of us are queer. But with this shift in who is shopping here, marketing has erased that identity quickly. About half of the customers now are what we call "raw milk drinkers," identifiable almost immediately with their "lions not sheep" t-shirts, or Idaho as a gun firing a pine tree baseballl hats. They're also the antivaxxers and white people with dreads.
The woo crowd was more tolerated than accepted by the left, so it wasn't too much of a surprise when they went full MAGA as soon as the right found it convenient to embrace their views.
You can get it at some farm gates in NZ and I did try it for awhile until I learned how sick you can get from it- TB is one example. Not recommended. The taste was no different (as I recall) and the non-homogenised but still pasteurised versions at Countdown, NW etc.
Someone was telling me about Jordan Peterson (and his daughter) and the all meat diet curing autoimmune diseases just the other day! I don’t know why people listen to Jordan Peterson about anything. He’s what dumb people think smart people sound like. And if any of the webworm folks are Peterson fans, accept my sincerest apology, but I’m assuming that won’t be the case.
I've heard this too! There's a Venn diagram cross over with my libertarian/conservative young male friends, the carnivore diet, conservative Christians, and loving Jordan Peterson.
I have always felt on the outside, and it's mostly a gut thing.......I cannot abide Peterson. Even when I tried to see the good.................must be something seriously wrong with moi.
There’s no way these people don’t know to inject something true into the BS that doesn’t conflict with any of the ideas they are espousing. Then everything is true.🙄
This has been a thing I’ve followed for a while because I also found it funny. Namely The Liver King and his liver diet. What was even better was when he got caught using steroids to get his body which most of us safely assumed. People are always looking for something to help them and these folks will prey on them as always. I hate it.
As a chef, I’m always curious what the next fad diet will be. I’ve watched the evolution of diets by preparing meals in fancy restaurants and serving those that claim its benefits. This is also true of the allergies and the supposed side effects that they create. Some said gluten would make you depressed and championed a gluten free meal while loading up on beer that wasn’t gluten free. Carnivore diets love to promote this same mentality as you noted.
Such good point regarding money. It takes lots of it, along with time and effort, and most people don't an abundance of those. Super ripped bodies have always felt a bit classist to me, and pushing people of all body types to look a certain way is discounting and ignoring the beautiful thing about human bodies - they are all different. Along with the fucked up levels of cholesterol and potential bacteria, how close is this to an eating disorder - wait. Maybe it is one. Physically and mentally unhealthy? Sure seems that way.
If I recall correctly, "ripped bodies" used to be seen as those of the poor, because they were the ones doing physical labour, whereas the rich didn't do overly physical activities.
The changes of societal expectations across history is amazing.
Yes! Just like how pale skin in European society was a higher class marker since you didn’t have to do labour outside, and then F. Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald flipped it and made the tan the popular symbol of moneyed leisure after larking around in the South of France.
There are eating disorders related to what and how people eat. There is Orthorexia where people are so obsessed with clean eating they often end up paranoid that most food is tainted and unsafe which can leave them with little to eat that is "safe". Most eating disorders fall under OSFED (Other Specified Feeding and Eating Disorder) since they are often a combination of disordered eating patterns: like a combination of restrictive eating, purging and bingeing.
I assume the Bali Time Chamber is only for straight men because otherwise there are, uh, plenty of 'distractions' around. And entire Time Chamber full, one might say.
Much like Silicon Valley, the wellness industry seems dedicated to finding solutions to problems we've already solved.
The Bali time chamber made me think the same too! Like the episode of South Park where the men band together to start protesting losing their jobs and end up in a huge pile having sex with each other 🤣
They're trying to take themselves out of the gene pool? I like it! Better than Ego Musk and his tech bro friends trying to spread their supposedly superior genes as widely as possible.
Not the first time I have seen people screaming about their diet of, beef, eggs and raw milk, and it seems to be a little sub culture that is becoming increasingly mainstream. I think the same now as I did then: it’s privileged, white male nonsense.
Everyone is, of course, free to do whatever they wish with their own body and ingest whatever diet they care to but, as Tony says, there is some real grifting going on here to sell it to others as some sort of cure for whatever might ail you. It makes me feel deeply unwell.
It has been a wild ride observing diet trends since they came into my orbit when I was 20. In a flat full of actors, no diet was left untried. I remember friends eating plates of salami and cheese trying to hit ketosis. (Love to see cured meat on the WHO carcinogens list. Good times.) If diets worked there would just be one and everyone would be on it? I always liked Michael Pollen’s advice about eating food your grandma would recognise as food, with ingredients you would normally have in a pantry. And the “eat food, not too much, mostly plants” which honestly seems fail safe to me. But also - imagine the power that could be harnessed if the world’s population stopped obsessing over diets and maybe turned that obsession to, I dunno, saving the planet or something? Cool that you’ve got a six pack while the world burns though.
I think that was his book "In Defense of Food"? I've enjoyed most of his over the years. Another book I read around the same time and which really influenced my view is Eric Schlosser's book "Fast Food Nation: The Dark Side of the All American Meal" - its very good https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1097.Fast_Food_Nation . Basically now when I want a burger I make it myself.
I have a close friend (female) who is deep into the carnivore diet. It’s been over 8 months and she says her blood work has improved greatly. For an intelligent woman, she’s become an idiot for this lunacy. Give it a little more time when the blood work starts showing massive deficiencies of nutrients that you can’t get from meat and fats and I guess her tune will (might) change. I tune out her sermonising and keep my mouth shut
Without wishing to be unduly sexist, if God supports Trump he has to be a male!
I see why men like these influencers are referred to as "beefcake" now! Personally, I don't find their bodies at all attractive and their table manners seem pretty gross. Quite apart from encouraging individuals to add the the planet's woes and make themselves ill, I hate to think how much a carnivorous diet would cost, financially. Fortunately, as anti-vaxxers, they probably take daily doses of Ivermectin, so at least they shouldn't get worms. By the way, they are correct about organ meats and anyone who eats meat should ensure that they eat ALL parts of the animal, whose life they are responsible for sacrificing.
When I studied bioarchaeology one of my tutors told us the bone evidence shows humans evolved to eat two things: meat and very ripe, almost over-ripe fruit. Did he (or any of us) eat this way? Nah. Will I be changing to a carnivore diet to cure my multiple sclerosis and/or rheumatoid arthritis? Also no.
(And those guys are delusional; ketosis makes you smell like you died a while back.)
Oh, you tell people you have MS and they've always got a diet to suggest to control your symptoms. Vegan is the main one, but carnivore and Mediterranean have also been suggested. I've already got MS (and IBS), I'm not giving up the foods I enjoy and can eat on the off-chance it MAY help my symptoms.
Find it interesting that there is often a sliver of truth to many of these fads that gets magnified to unjustifiable extremes. Was listening to Dr Karl (on ABC) who often has Professor Clare Collins, from the University of Newcastle, talking about diet/nutrition. A gym bro called in asking about protein powder before/after exercise and the reply was 'Just drink some plain milk after', no special potions.
Years ago, when Paleo was 'the thing', recall Dr Karl had a guest Palaeologist who was bemused that somehow Paleo Diet people 'knew' far more about paleo diet than Palaeologists did.
----
If you want a quick science-based diet check-up, a few minutes of multi-choice questions', with realistic suggestions and recipes Prof Collin's team has built this no BS, no marketing, Healthy Eating Quiz: https://nomoneynotime.com.au/about
I've been wondering about this whole carnivore diet thing after I noticed it being touted on random reddit threads. Someone talking about depression? There'll be someone at the bottom of the thread pushing a carnivore diet. If the topic is COVID or the uptick in respiratory illnesses NZ is experiencing at the moment - carnivore diet. Cost of living discussion? Carnivore diet.
It's bizarre. I assumed it was somehow the latest anti-woke fad, so this was a good read. All that self-inflicted constipation they'll suffer will sure show us 'libtards'!
I forgot to mention one of my favourite things I stumbled across: a 'carnivore pizza', where the base was made from ground up chicken, then they chucked some steak on top hahaha
Next Webworm dinner?
You guys are having Webworm dinners?
I’ve noticed, via my two sons (19&20) this interest in men’s body ideals. I see it in their (sometimes) what feels like obsession over their clothing and hair choices and for my oldest in his attendance at a gym most days. Mostly I’m ok with it for them and we regularly talk about moderation and when I get sent pics of ‘bro dinner’ which usually involves steak and eggs, I’m always being that mum who texts backs applauding a great meal and noting the addition of veg. I’ve also seen my eldest move from GYM.EVERY.DAY. to a more relaxed approach when he started a new job he loved.
But this piece resonated with me - women have been dealing with diet culture every where, all the time, consistently. And it’s tiring and insidious and overwhelming to the point where it just becomes normalised. It’s just one of the things that women continually have in their mental load to watch out for, not get sucked in by, be prepared to combat if it’s offered up (by social media, well meaning friends, tv radio magazine ads…) and also talk to our young people about. I feel sad for the men who are now experiencing this toxicity and trust that most too can recognise the rubbish from reality.
Interesting to observe ones own sons and what they're into! What a world to navigate...
What’s interesting is that for them their life and the world they navigate is their normal - so navigating it is just what they do. For me (Gen X), I’m watching from the outside, seeing how different it is and applauding how well they are navigating things which to me are odd, weird and things that sometimes I have to consciously check myself on how I am reacting.
Their inherent acceptance of diversity,ability to be themselves and set strong barriers around work/life amaze me and make me so proud. So much shit out there in the world - but also incredible rangitahi living their best lives. Let’s not forget all the awesome; sometimes we get too sucked in by the ugly.
I work at a consumer co-op, a very expensive health food store that boasts about carrying local items, in Idaho. Like whole foods on steroids. We often talk about this idea of people swinging so far left that they're on the right again. Those are generally the ones fearing vaccines and white people with dreads. Being in the "liberal safe haven" of Boise, but still in the /very/ red state of Idaho, I've watching this switch happen in real time, and it was jarring then. What's just as jarring now is watching MAGA hat wearers all of the sudden obsessing over our Local, Organic, Grass-fed, and Organ blend ground beef. We're also one of the only grocery stores in the area that carries raw milk. The Co-op used to be very left leaning in it's marketing (we used to have very cute store branded "yes, we can" on canning jar shaped stickers); being a co-op is kind of a radical idea for a grocery store. We still employ probably 90% leftist employees, and half of us are queer. But with this shift in who is shopping here, marketing has erased that identity quickly. About half of the customers now are what we call "raw milk drinkers," identifiable almost immediately with their "lions not sheep" t-shirts, or Idaho as a gun firing a pine tree baseballl hats. They're also the antivaxxers and white people with dreads.
The woo crowd was more tolerated than accepted by the left, so it wasn't too much of a surprise when they went full MAGA as soon as the right found it convenient to embrace their views.
The wellness-QAnon thing was such a weird thing to witness!
Oh dear. Poor you! Stay loose and have a bit of fun just watching it all pass by, because it will all pass by.
I can't believe anywhere sells raw milk! I've known people who drank it and got so sick.
according to my research a lot of shirtless men are very keen on it
Will try it and report back.
You can get it at some farm gates in NZ and I did try it for awhile until I learned how sick you can get from it- TB is one example. Not recommended. The taste was no different (as I recall) and the non-homogenised but still pasteurised versions at Countdown, NW etc.
Someone was telling me about Jordan Peterson (and his daughter) and the all meat diet curing autoimmune diseases just the other day! I don’t know why people listen to Jordan Peterson about anything. He’s what dumb people think smart people sound like. And if any of the webworm folks are Peterson fans, accept my sincerest apology, but I’m assuming that won’t be the case.
I've heard this too! There's a Venn diagram cross over with my libertarian/conservative young male friends, the carnivore diet, conservative Christians, and loving Jordan Peterson.
Spot on.
I have always felt on the outside, and it's mostly a gut thing.......I cannot abide Peterson. Even when I tried to see the good.................must be something seriously wrong with moi.
can't believe I forgot to mention Dr P and daughter!
I hear you! But….i really like some of his essays….what the heck. Maybe someone can be a raving mysogynist and have some (occasional) wisdom 🤷🏻♀️
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, right?
Holy shit that's even better than the broken clock analogy for talking about politicians. Permission to plagiarise, please!
Absolutely! It was a common phrase where I grew up. No ownership here. 😀
Hahahha i love that! Exactly.
🤣🤣🤣 actually very funny, Thank you
Oh wait I thought this was about the Bali carnivore retreat - my bad!
There’s no way these people don’t know to inject something true into the BS that doesn’t conflict with any of the ideas they are espousing. Then everything is true.🙄
This has been a thing I’ve followed for a while because I also found it funny. Namely The Liver King and his liver diet. What was even better was when he got caught using steroids to get his body which most of us safely assumed. People are always looking for something to help them and these folks will prey on them as always. I hate it.
As a chef, I’m always curious what the next fad diet will be. I’ve watched the evolution of diets by preparing meals in fancy restaurants and serving those that claim its benefits. This is also true of the allergies and the supposed side effects that they create. Some said gluten would make you depressed and championed a gluten free meal while loading up on beer that wasn’t gluten free. Carnivore diets love to promote this same mentality as you noted.
Just eat reasonably and work out. It cost a lot of money to get jacked. Rob McElhenney who plays Mac on Its Always Sunny In Philadelphia made a joke once after losing weight and getting toned. https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/w5gl49/rob_mcelhenneys_guide_to_getting_ripped/
Such good point regarding money. It takes lots of it, along with time and effort, and most people don't an abundance of those. Super ripped bodies have always felt a bit classist to me, and pushing people of all body types to look a certain way is discounting and ignoring the beautiful thing about human bodies - they are all different. Along with the fucked up levels of cholesterol and potential bacteria, how close is this to an eating disorder - wait. Maybe it is one. Physically and mentally unhealthy? Sure seems that way.
If I recall correctly, "ripped bodies" used to be seen as those of the poor, because they were the ones doing physical labour, whereas the rich didn't do overly physical activities.
The changes of societal expectations across history is amazing.
Yes! Just like how pale skin in European society was a higher class marker since you didn’t have to do labour outside, and then F. Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald flipped it and made the tan the popular symbol of moneyed leisure after larking around in the South of France.
Good point!!
LOL! Fun observation! Thanks
There are eating disorders related to what and how people eat. There is Orthorexia where people are so obsessed with clean eating they often end up paranoid that most food is tainted and unsafe which can leave them with little to eat that is "safe". Most eating disorders fall under OSFED (Other Specified Feeding and Eating Disorder) since they are often a combination of disordered eating patterns: like a combination of restrictive eating, purging and bingeing.
Also: time! A luxury many people just don't have.
I imagine Liver King's sweat would smell like hung meat, patchouli and aged urine.
And Sandalwood. Or some kind of wood, cedar or mahogany.
I initially read this as wood, cedar and misogyny 😅
That makes so much more sense though lol
Mmmmmmm
I assume the Bali Time Chamber is only for straight men because otherwise there are, uh, plenty of 'distractions' around. And entire Time Chamber full, one might say.
Much like Silicon Valley, the wellness industry seems dedicated to finding solutions to problems we've already solved.
The Bali time chamber made me think the same too! Like the episode of South Park where the men band together to start protesting losing their jobs and end up in a huge pile having sex with each other 🤣
I saw one vid that was pretty homophobic, so yeah it's a safe bet.
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
I really REALLY wanna know what sexual transmutation is. Praying it has to do with werewolves.
I looked it up, it basically means abstaining from sex and using the energy to do something else (like fell trees or something I guess).
Orrrrrrrr turn into a werewolf?
They're trying to take themselves out of the gene pool? I like it! Better than Ego Musk and his tech bro friends trying to spread their supposedly superior genes as widely as possible.
😂
Not the first time I have seen people screaming about their diet of, beef, eggs and raw milk, and it seems to be a little sub culture that is becoming increasingly mainstream. I think the same now as I did then: it’s privileged, white male nonsense.
Everyone is, of course, free to do whatever they wish with their own body and ingest whatever diet they care to but, as Tony says, there is some real grifting going on here to sell it to others as some sort of cure for whatever might ail you. It makes me feel deeply unwell.
It has been a wild ride observing diet trends since they came into my orbit when I was 20. In a flat full of actors, no diet was left untried. I remember friends eating plates of salami and cheese trying to hit ketosis. (Love to see cured meat on the WHO carcinogens list. Good times.) If diets worked there would just be one and everyone would be on it? I always liked Michael Pollen’s advice about eating food your grandma would recognise as food, with ingredients you would normally have in a pantry. And the “eat food, not too much, mostly plants” which honestly seems fail safe to me. But also - imagine the power that could be harnessed if the world’s population stopped obsessing over diets and maybe turned that obsession to, I dunno, saving the planet or something? Cool that you’ve got a six pack while the world burns though.
Pollan, sorry!
I think that was his book "In Defense of Food"? I've enjoyed most of his over the years. Another book I read around the same time and which really influenced my view is Eric Schlosser's book "Fast Food Nation: The Dark Side of the All American Meal" - its very good https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1097.Fast_Food_Nation . Basically now when I want a burger I make it myself.
I have a close friend (female) who is deep into the carnivore diet. It’s been over 8 months and she says her blood work has improved greatly. For an intelligent woman, she’s become an idiot for this lunacy. Give it a little more time when the blood work starts showing massive deficiencies of nutrients that you can’t get from meat and fats and I guess her tune will (might) change. I tune out her sermonising and keep my mouth shut
Without wishing to be unduly sexist, if God supports Trump he has to be a male!
I see why men like these influencers are referred to as "beefcake" now! Personally, I don't find their bodies at all attractive and their table manners seem pretty gross. Quite apart from encouraging individuals to add the the planet's woes and make themselves ill, I hate to think how much a carnivorous diet would cost, financially. Fortunately, as anti-vaxxers, they probably take daily doses of Ivermectin, so at least they shouldn't get worms. By the way, they are correct about organ meats and anyone who eats meat should ensure that they eat ALL parts of the animal, whose life they are responsible for sacrificing.
How solipsistic all these people are!
When I studied bioarchaeology one of my tutors told us the bone evidence shows humans evolved to eat two things: meat and very ripe, almost over-ripe fruit. Did he (or any of us) eat this way? Nah. Will I be changing to a carnivore diet to cure my multiple sclerosis and/or rheumatoid arthritis? Also no.
(And those guys are delusional; ketosis makes you smell like you died a while back.)
Oh, you tell people you have MS and they've always got a diet to suggest to control your symptoms. Vegan is the main one, but carnivore and Mediterranean have also been suggested. I've already got MS (and IBS), I'm not giving up the foods I enjoy and can eat on the off-chance it MAY help my symptoms.
Find it interesting that there is often a sliver of truth to many of these fads that gets magnified to unjustifiable extremes. Was listening to Dr Karl (on ABC) who often has Professor Clare Collins, from the University of Newcastle, talking about diet/nutrition. A gym bro called in asking about protein powder before/after exercise and the reply was 'Just drink some plain milk after', no special potions.
Years ago, when Paleo was 'the thing', recall Dr Karl had a guest Palaeologist who was bemused that somehow Paleo Diet people 'knew' far more about paleo diet than Palaeologists did.
----
If you want a quick science-based diet check-up, a few minutes of multi-choice questions', with realistic suggestions and recipes Prof Collin's team has built this no BS, no marketing, Healthy Eating Quiz: https://nomoneynotime.com.au/about
People looking for something to believe it….same old just different shit. Sigh x
I've been wondering about this whole carnivore diet thing after I noticed it being touted on random reddit threads. Someone talking about depression? There'll be someone at the bottom of the thread pushing a carnivore diet. If the topic is COVID or the uptick in respiratory illnesses NZ is experiencing at the moment - carnivore diet. Cost of living discussion? Carnivore diet.
It's bizarre. I assumed it was somehow the latest anti-woke fad, so this was a good read. All that self-inflicted constipation they'll suffer will sure show us 'libtards'!