I listened to an interview with Mike Lee on RNZ talking about some of the reasons people avoid vaccines from his research and his first point was about wellness woo and religion. The idea your body is perfect you just have to eat healthy or believe in god enough and you’ll never get sick. This is a problem people like myself with chronic illness such as autoimmune disease face all the time. People don’t like to believe that it’s possible to become unwell even if you’re doing the most. I call it the “perfect body” theory and it’s what drives a bunch of discrimination against people with chronic illness and disability. I’m stoked to be double vaxxed finally, and ooh boy it was so much easier than the weekly injection of cytotoxic immune suppressant I have to do to control my disease. People place so much moral value on health and it’s fucked. I could ramble about it for a long time. My brain-wormed anti-vax mum has even told me I have autoimmune disease because of “taking vaccines” although she can’t decide if it’s my childhood vaccinations or the yearly flu jab. Needless to say I’ve not disclosed my covid vaccine status to her yet. If anyone knows what the academic term for the idea that “you just have to be healthy/and or believe in god enough you will never face illness” that would be great so I can read some academic research about this frustrating phenomenon and have better ways to combat all the wellness woo and “advice” people give me about what I should do to cure my incurable disease Hahahha.
Thank you for holding space for all of us who have horror stories of churches, as well as so many others. Evangelical churches in particular have a lot to answer for, although I also remember my only Catholic communion as a Catholic School kid . . . that was pretty stunningly bad also.
Thank you for every single thing you write, too. It's always well thought out and powerful and I appreciate it very much.
Please be gentle with yourself, and take space when you need to cope with it all. The abuse and the horrors will always be waiting in your inbox, but I hope you are able to put them aside sometimes and just have moments of peace.
I do not believe in any higher power any more, but the power of myself, and others. With enough of us pulling together, each in our own way, we can make a difference. Every drop of power, of courage, of honour, of kindness, of gentleness, every one will make a difference to the world.
Extremely excited that Scott Kennedy, the Deputy Principal at Manukau Christian School, must clearly support abortion now. I guess I will see him at the next march? Seriously though, what a way to tell on yourself. I haven't ever cried except for this one time I was inconvenienced in an extremely minor way. Proof that none of these anti vaxxers have faced true challenges in life - like say, standing in the ICU over your child, who you can't touch because they have a machine breathing for them. I'd say my husband and I didn't stop crying for about six months then.
I grew up in a third world country that didn't have access to vaccines. I saw first hand the effects of polio. I read an opinion piece recently that summed up my thinking; "It is truly privileged upon privileged to not only live in a country that has more than sufficient supply of vaccines while others have no access, but also to choose not to get vaccinated."
I get so much hope from reading this. There are so many people who do care about the common welfare who quietly go about their business being of service to others and the greater good. I see it in the folks that comment here and when I am looking I see it in my daily life. The problem is the other opinions are SO LOUD. I have to remember that LOUD does not mean that is the majority.
I also don't think the NZ media in general has anything to be proud about at the moment in terms of balance - it seems to be all about blame blame blame - not just holding those folks to account. I have to very much limit what outlets I read as the headlines, notifications and 'pundit' pieces seem to be bordering on hysteria at the moment.
Anyways thank you again for the webworm and for all the folks who comment - weirdly though topic is disturbing - it does give me hope
"Protecting the innocent (immuno compromised, elderly, chemotherapy patients etc etc) from the evildoer (virus)" um yeah, this bit means get the vaccine you plonker
Stop being selfish. That's it. Its okay to be scared and to have questions. It's not okay to hide behind bullshit to self serve and encourage others to do the same- certainly not in the name of philosophies based on kindness and supporting others.
My girlfriend’s stepdad is a New Zealand mayor and I’m always flummoxed at how considerate and good he is - his politics are left out of his role. I’ve known him for almost three years now and I don’t even know what his politics are. He just wants to make sure everyone is okay at all times. The attitude of this anti-Pfizer mayor in the news is upsetting because it will influence others around her.
The MAGA hat wearing teacher is about to say something stupid and I’m excited to read about it.
All this anti vaccination sentiment must be so exhausting for them. It’s making me so angry that I have decided to unfriend, unfollow (but always read webworm) and simply remove myself because the inner rage I have is messing with my sleep. I took every vaccine available when I went nursing (still nursing and still getting vaccinated) and then when travelling and of course you couldn’t get in to some countries without yellow fever so we took that and never questioned it. Still alive and kicking.
The thing that puzzles me about the whole "They need to be able to decide before God whether or not to get a vaccine" argument, is how do that know that God hasn't sent them the vaccine? Maybe he guided the scientists? And maybe it's a test - one that only those who truly love their neighbours as themselves and get vaccinated pass?
Great piece, David - you have managed to articulate everything that has been sitting uncomfortably with me about this whole "personal choice" rubbish. I kind of get the whole need to feel like you have some level of personal autonomy... but Covid vaccinations are not about that. At all. The lack of empathy is astounding!
As a side note, I'm a relatively new Webworm convert and have been really enjoying it so far! So many fascinating topics to read up on... many of which I wouldn't usually dive so deeply into. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks and you're great!
"As a Christian, my theology of government is derived from the Bible and not from pragmatics or social convention." oh, this bit really rubbed me the wrong way... A school principal ignoring social contracts to substitute his own theological conventions, yikes...
Anyways, I've thought about this a lot recently and there happens to be a really good episode from the Adam Conover podcast "Factually" this week who talks to I believe a journalist. She details the history of anti-vax movements and how it has changed. I recommend you give it a listen, she gives a lot of advice on how to talk to anti-vax friends and family, it's really good.
I've also come to believe that, although I am firmly pro vaccine and pro mandates in certain at-risk professions like healthcare and schools, it's definitely a privilege to be able to confidently walk into a random clinic, roll up your sleeve and be injected without worry or anxiety. There's definitely been over the centuries groups that have been, at best, ignored and at worst harmed by the medical institution and it's not difficult to imagine the extra hurdles it puts in front of them when it comes time to follow government advice.
I get so frustrated with ppl like this mayor and I just don't know how to get through to them. She's so entrenched in her opinion now, she really doesn't care about considering other points of view and she won't "back down" because that would be capitulating to her detractors. I'm sure she thinks of herself as a "pro-choice", "anti-authoritarian", and "honest" martyr, and that's the hill she wants to die on. It's a bit like debating with anti-abortion activists - they've put some much investment into identifying with this belief system that to change their minds now is unthinkable. I think the only way to get through to them is if someone they respect/trusts has a quiet word with them - the rest of us can shout til we're blue in the face and they won't care.
*sigh* Love your neighbour' 'Love one another' is kind of Jesus 101. This bodily sanctity in terms of medical care above the wellbeing of others is in direct opposition to the Xian prime directive. Very weird. I don't get it. I'm pretty sure if there is a god, he has been facepalming hard, well, more so than usual, for the last 18 months. I often think when I encounter both established and cult Christian organisations the salient points of Jesus' life flew clean over their heads.
If you are working with the general public, kids or vulnerable people the vaccine should be mandatory. It is not unknown for certain roles to demand vaccination, when I started nurse training in the 1990's we had to have a number of vaccines, there was absolutely no debate. It protected us and everyone we cared for. Win/win.
Hope you are bearing up against the unpleasantness in your DMs, you have rattled their cages for sure.
Gosh I was wondering why she rang a bell. Probably that same medieval bell they would ring when the village was under attack. She was “off grid, I’m off grid” when Coromandel had a COVID scare on the first day of the outbreak, nobody could reach her, then she climbed a hill and Lisa Owen from RNZ was the first to get her on the phone. Lisa’s shocked when Sandra says on national broadcast that she doesn’t use the COVID tracer app and doesn’t scan in at locations, so she gives her a chance to fix it and say she’ll try and do better in future, being mayor of a town that’s scared and looking for guidance and all that. Can you guess what Sandra says? You already know the answer.
I listened to an interview with Mike Lee on RNZ talking about some of the reasons people avoid vaccines from his research and his first point was about wellness woo and religion. The idea your body is perfect you just have to eat healthy or believe in god enough and you’ll never get sick. This is a problem people like myself with chronic illness such as autoimmune disease face all the time. People don’t like to believe that it’s possible to become unwell even if you’re doing the most. I call it the “perfect body” theory and it’s what drives a bunch of discrimination against people with chronic illness and disability. I’m stoked to be double vaxxed finally, and ooh boy it was so much easier than the weekly injection of cytotoxic immune suppressant I have to do to control my disease. People place so much moral value on health and it’s fucked. I could ramble about it for a long time. My brain-wormed anti-vax mum has even told me I have autoimmune disease because of “taking vaccines” although she can’t decide if it’s my childhood vaccinations or the yearly flu jab. Needless to say I’ve not disclosed my covid vaccine status to her yet. If anyone knows what the academic term for the idea that “you just have to be healthy/and or believe in god enough you will never face illness” that would be great so I can read some academic research about this frustrating phenomenon and have better ways to combat all the wellness woo and “advice” people give me about what I should do to cure my incurable disease Hahahha.
Thank you for holding space for all of us who have horror stories of churches, as well as so many others. Evangelical churches in particular have a lot to answer for, although I also remember my only Catholic communion as a Catholic School kid . . . that was pretty stunningly bad also.
Thank you for every single thing you write, too. It's always well thought out and powerful and I appreciate it very much.
Please be gentle with yourself, and take space when you need to cope with it all. The abuse and the horrors will always be waiting in your inbox, but I hope you are able to put them aside sometimes and just have moments of peace.
I do not believe in any higher power any more, but the power of myself, and others. With enough of us pulling together, each in our own way, we can make a difference. Every drop of power, of courage, of honour, of kindness, of gentleness, every one will make a difference to the world.
Extremely excited that Scott Kennedy, the Deputy Principal at Manukau Christian School, must clearly support abortion now. I guess I will see him at the next march? Seriously though, what a way to tell on yourself. I haven't ever cried except for this one time I was inconvenienced in an extremely minor way. Proof that none of these anti vaxxers have faced true challenges in life - like say, standing in the ICU over your child, who you can't touch because they have a machine breathing for them. I'd say my husband and I didn't stop crying for about six months then.
I grew up in a third world country that didn't have access to vaccines. I saw first hand the effects of polio. I read an opinion piece recently that summed up my thinking; "It is truly privileged upon privileged to not only live in a country that has more than sufficient supply of vaccines while others have no access, but also to choose not to get vaccinated."
I get so much hope from reading this. There are so many people who do care about the common welfare who quietly go about their business being of service to others and the greater good. I see it in the folks that comment here and when I am looking I see it in my daily life. The problem is the other opinions are SO LOUD. I have to remember that LOUD does not mean that is the majority.
I also don't think the NZ media in general has anything to be proud about at the moment in terms of balance - it seems to be all about blame blame blame - not just holding those folks to account. I have to very much limit what outlets I read as the headlines, notifications and 'pundit' pieces seem to be bordering on hysteria at the moment.
Anyways thank you again for the webworm and for all the folks who comment - weirdly though topic is disturbing - it does give me hope
"Protecting the innocent (immuno compromised, elderly, chemotherapy patients etc etc) from the evildoer (virus)" um yeah, this bit means get the vaccine you plonker
Stop being selfish. That's it. Its okay to be scared and to have questions. It's not okay to hide behind bullshit to self serve and encourage others to do the same- certainly not in the name of philosophies based on kindness and supporting others.
Double webworm weekend? Oooooh.
My girlfriend’s stepdad is a New Zealand mayor and I’m always flummoxed at how considerate and good he is - his politics are left out of his role. I’ve known him for almost three years now and I don’t even know what his politics are. He just wants to make sure everyone is okay at all times. The attitude of this anti-Pfizer mayor in the news is upsetting because it will influence others around her.
The MAGA hat wearing teacher is about to say something stupid and I’m excited to read about it.
All this anti vaccination sentiment must be so exhausting for them. It’s making me so angry that I have decided to unfriend, unfollow (but always read webworm) and simply remove myself because the inner rage I have is messing with my sleep. I took every vaccine available when I went nursing (still nursing and still getting vaccinated) and then when travelling and of course you couldn’t get in to some countries without yellow fever so we took that and never questioned it. Still alive and kicking.
The thing that puzzles me about the whole "They need to be able to decide before God whether or not to get a vaccine" argument, is how do that know that God hasn't sent them the vaccine? Maybe he guided the scientists? And maybe it's a test - one that only those who truly love their neighbours as themselves and get vaccinated pass?
Great piece, David - you have managed to articulate everything that has been sitting uncomfortably with me about this whole "personal choice" rubbish. I kind of get the whole need to feel like you have some level of personal autonomy... but Covid vaccinations are not about that. At all. The lack of empathy is astounding!
As a side note, I'm a relatively new Webworm convert and have been really enjoying it so far! So many fascinating topics to read up on... many of which I wouldn't usually dive so deeply into. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks and you're great!
"As a Christian, my theology of government is derived from the Bible and not from pragmatics or social convention." oh, this bit really rubbed me the wrong way... A school principal ignoring social contracts to substitute his own theological conventions, yikes...
Anyways, I've thought about this a lot recently and there happens to be a really good episode from the Adam Conover podcast "Factually" this week who talks to I believe a journalist. She details the history of anti-vax movements and how it has changed. I recommend you give it a listen, she gives a lot of advice on how to talk to anti-vax friends and family, it's really good.
I've also come to believe that, although I am firmly pro vaccine and pro mandates in certain at-risk professions like healthcare and schools, it's definitely a privilege to be able to confidently walk into a random clinic, roll up your sleeve and be injected without worry or anxiety. There's definitely been over the centuries groups that have been, at best, ignored and at worst harmed by the medical institution and it's not difficult to imagine the extra hurdles it puts in front of them when it comes time to follow government advice.
"As a Christian, my theology of government is derived from the Bible and not from pragmatics or social convention."
Right. Like any other religious extremist. So they complain about other extremists, turn around and spout the same crap?
I get so frustrated with ppl like this mayor and I just don't know how to get through to them. She's so entrenched in her opinion now, she really doesn't care about considering other points of view and she won't "back down" because that would be capitulating to her detractors. I'm sure she thinks of herself as a "pro-choice", "anti-authoritarian", and "honest" martyr, and that's the hill she wants to die on. It's a bit like debating with anti-abortion activists - they've put some much investment into identifying with this belief system that to change their minds now is unthinkable. I think the only way to get through to them is if someone they respect/trusts has a quiet word with them - the rest of us can shout til we're blue in the face and they won't care.
The phrase "theology of government" just caused me to experience spontaneous combustion.
*sigh* Love your neighbour' 'Love one another' is kind of Jesus 101. This bodily sanctity in terms of medical care above the wellbeing of others is in direct opposition to the Xian prime directive. Very weird. I don't get it. I'm pretty sure if there is a god, he has been facepalming hard, well, more so than usual, for the last 18 months. I often think when I encounter both established and cult Christian organisations the salient points of Jesus' life flew clean over their heads.
If you are working with the general public, kids or vulnerable people the vaccine should be mandatory. It is not unknown for certain roles to demand vaccination, when I started nurse training in the 1990's we had to have a number of vaccines, there was absolutely no debate. It protected us and everyone we cared for. Win/win.
Hope you are bearing up against the unpleasantness in your DMs, you have rattled their cages for sure.
Gosh I was wondering why she rang a bell. Probably that same medieval bell they would ring when the village was under attack. She was “off grid, I’m off grid” when Coromandel had a COVID scare on the first day of the outbreak, nobody could reach her, then she climbed a hill and Lisa Owen from RNZ was the first to get her on the phone. Lisa’s shocked when Sandra says on national broadcast that she doesn’t use the COVID tracer app and doesn’t scan in at locations, so she gives her a chance to fix it and say she’ll try and do better in future, being mayor of a town that’s scared and looking for guidance and all that. Can you guess what Sandra says? You already know the answer.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018808640