I was raised Christian and have seen this US-style evangelical ‘freedom at any costs’ mentality infect well-meaning people in NZ. How anyone can read the bible and decide Jesus would be about personal ‘freedom’ at the expense of others (to the point of tolerating white supremacy) is absolutely beyond me - complete cognitive dissonance. And so deeply culty. This piece on Voices for Freedom indicates it too is just an actual Scientology-style cult/MLM at its core https://twitter.com/conehell/status/1496282562150674432?s=21.
I often think about this Rachel Held Evans view on interpretation of the bible (I was raised fundy) when I’m baffled by how they justify their appalling cruelty - “If you are looking for verses with which to support slavery, you will find them. If you are looking for verses with which to abolish slavery, you will find them. If you are looking for verses with which to oppress women, you will find them. If you are looking for for verses with which to liberate or honor women, you will find them. If you are looking for reasons to wage war, you will find them. If you are looking for reasons to promote peace, you will find them. If you are looking for an out-dated, irrelevant ancient text, you will find it. If you are looking for truth, believe me, you will find it. This is why there are times when the most instructive question to bring to the text is not "what does it say?", but "what am I looking for?" I suspect Jesus knew this when he said, "ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened." If you want to do violence in this world, you will always find the weapons. If you want to heal, you will always find the balm.”
I read that article and the swaruu/starseed content is really out there (www.swaruu.org). A group of Alien’s purportedly protecting Earth and talking to select people which has been going on since 2015. And these alien’s all look like young women modelling students wearing SF cosplay suits. And they’re very concerned about vaccines. It seems like alien cult groups have latched onto vaccines as a mobilising evil tyranny story too, just like the Dominion Theology churches above.
But is there actual evidence of a direct link to VFF in that expose? Maybe I missed it. Just because Gerd Ruschhaupt is into some weird Scientology-esque stuff (PSYCHE-K) and built their websites could be indirect. Similarly, the swaruu.org forum guy is just promoting VFF to like-minded anti-vaxxers.
Maybe it is all linked or it’s just people with similarly fringe beliefs finding each other.
VFF is flat out fraud. It reminds me of the IRS and lottery scams that are particularly targeted toward elderly people in the US. My partner's parents (partner is a Kiwi, I'm American) told us they were going to see a doctor about vaccines maybe a year or so ago. We were thrilled to hear this until we heard what it actually was, Peter Canaday, an American radiologist living in NZ, who has the shadiest LinkedIn page I have ever seen.
VFF had been banned from FB at this point but were putting flyers in mailboxes and had these huge billboards around NZ which "donations" could help fund. I put donations in quotes because this is not a non-profit and they have no reporting requirements as far as I could find. The donation page starts with "Freedom isn't free....Turns out that freedom isn't free, in fact it's a pretty expensive business...." - the suggested donation amounts go from $28 to $1200 real quick.
Grifters are going to grift and hypocrites are going to… what’s a word that means “come up with convenient excuses to mask the massive internal inconsistencies in their positions”?
I have spoken many times here (thanks for listening fellow worms) about my radicalised antivax, VFF supporting mother. You guessed it, she is absolutely a fundy, and has bounced around numerous fringe Protestant groups for years. I think the link between doomsday catastrophizing and being antivax cannot be understated. She sees everything as a ‘sign’ that the world will soon end, but also since her core beliefs are inherently unprovable, her ability to think critically is practically non-existent. Everything comes back to ‘god’s plan’ and there is no trust in any government, the media or any experts because everyone is stupid and only *she* is in possession of the truth.
Maybe a slight tangent, sorry! But your mention of the New Conservatives got me. I’m becoming increasingly fascinated/baffled by Chantelle Baker and her followers. Her videos started out predictable enough but lately she seems to have seamlessly pivoted to shilling her father Leighton Baker (maybe NZ’s biggest failure of a politician? Had we not also been blessed by Colin Craig) as “the person NZ needs” etc. Her followers, many of whom are instantly ready to believe in whatever random conspiracy theory she chucks out have jumped on board calling him a great leader etc.
What’s my point? I’m not sure - I think I am just bemused/sad at how a group of people can be so taken in. These are people who seem to immediately disbelieve anything the government/mainstream media says, but when an “independent” news source starts promoting a figurehead they just follow along without asking any questions about potential ulterior motives.
She's rare in this scene in NZ where she is young, TV-ready and quite savvy on social. She leans enough into the crazy to capture that base, but not as far as some. Also, it's been great seeing these groups all yelling at each other. Some great footage of people yelling at her, telling her she's a plant / controlled opposition etc. Wild shit. What a shitshow.
So true. I was naive enough to think she might pause to reflect on her approach when her partner was treated badly by the protestors and when she had to publicly declare she is not a freemason, but of course not!
Anyway if Leighton Baker is the answer I don’t want to know the question.
Don't ignore the way the "vibe" of a kind of togetherness can affect people in a situation such as the protest site. In this lovely weather, I suspect they feel that right is on their side. It can encourage even the hesitant to climb on board.
Totally. She’s not even feigning objectivity anymore. Last night she was down there cheering on the protesters who moved the concrete bollard to let a bunch more cars through (and also telling off in her BF/cameraman in a way unbefitting of a good conservative woman)
Really important to have this out there. The veneer of decency is deceptive and completely ignored when the line about "only a few bad eggs" is trotted out. The danger is insidious not overt, which makes it worse
I tend to lump the alt right racists and the pentecostal churchy types all in together - with the straight up alt right racists at least being at least a bit more honest than the churchy types when it comes to their intent and agenda. The churchy types are just straight out manipulative a**holes, well aware of what they are doing in using their 'flock' in pursuit of their nasty hidden agenda, much the same as the alt rights'. Have heard this b-s rhetoric so often from religions that i makes me wonder why ANYONE in their right mind (i.e. not pentecostal or down any rabbit holes) in this country could possible vote for a conservative right wing government knowing that this kind of mindset supports it. Beggars belief. Sick and twisted shite of the highest order.
That quote “I am the gate for the sheep” gave me a moment of mirth. Funny how all the conspiracy theorists like to say the non conspiracy theorists are the sheep!!
Also I have gone down the Heavens Cult Porirua rabbit hole before - just tucked away innocently in amongst the shops. At least they’re not disguising their true nature there. It’s really just plastered out there for all to see.
Final observation: Peter Mortlock’s sunglasses. Is he styling himself after Eli Gemstone? Where the fuck do you even get sunglasses like that in NZ? The man is a walking caricature.
Interestingly, I know the Perreaux's. Although they are definately at the extreme "demonology" end of the Pentecostal spectrum (and Peter's story accounts for that), they are good humoured and kind people. The unfortunate naming of their church would have been out of complete ignorance of the cult in California - a naive coincidence. However, I still had a good chuckle at the way you wrote it up - they probably did too.
I know in jest, but let's keep comments like this out of things! There's enough mindless debate about pedophiles - I think it's such a serious thing we shouldn't mention it in passing, even as a gag. The guy's an asshole without rumour!
Dominionists remind me of the ground work that Martin Luther laid for the German people culturally, as in teaching vile hatred for its own Jewish Citizens and their persecution in his time as virtue.
It was no surprise what was done to them eventually as there was a perpetual culture of the Church teaching superiority of self, hate of the other.
When comfort from faith leads to deluded action from a place of absolute certainty, superiority it's something else.
These elements in our N.Z society at glance seem like low level grifters looking for more followers and revenue. But believing they are destined to rule over us, and are networked to their U.S Mega Movements, l am concerned still.
I have zero time for religion of any sort. They are all as bonkers as each other but some are the most bonkers. Your mate Peter Perreaux made some damn good stereo gear back in the day: https://perreaux.com/about . He should have stuck to that though there is something almost cult-y about the audiophile community - or parts of it - as well (DAMHIK).
This is FASCINATING. What an interesting link. I wonder when his rabbit hole started (well, I guess his backstory on the website explains it, but still - I am sure some other instigating factors!)
Firstly, I enjoyed Constantine so how dare you. Though it might join the ranks of movies I shouldn't rewatch like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Boston Legal, The Blindside, and Rush Hour.
Secondly, I think there has been a steady disconnect growing between conservative Christianity and the rest of society for a long time. I'm reminded of that graph in The Social Experiment, I think, where it showed how social media polarizes left and right so that there is barely any overlap. There are a large number of things which have changed which can and have polarized both conservative blinkered Christians and other Christians who slowly feel like their line in the sand is being crossed. I'm trying to make it mildly chronological and I'll make mistakes and ignore racism as a conservative value for now... but it kinda mighta started with, separation of church and state, losing "values" in media, with porn legalization and kissing on tv, with abortion, then moving onto LGBTQI+ rights, marriage, drug legalization, euthanasia, etc. These things can all offend Mortlock types, and lead them to mistrust anything that a supportive wokey leftish government run-by-a-woman-even does.
They're blinded, they can't separate their issues from reality because all their other rage and angst blinds them from engaging critically. They can't even see that our religion calls for us to take care of each other and have been sucked into the selfish MY RIGHTS screeeee sort of mentality.
And you're right - the disconnect is HUGE. The world is moving, and quickly - and these old ideas trying to make sense of it end up in some truly terrible places.
Really frustrating for Christians who just like Jesus and his teachings, who have to deal with all this cooked theology going on with their peers.
I was raised a Catholic in an arch-Catholic country, yet even tho it was forced down our throats by the school, our families & even the state (church taxes!), very few of my compatriots were strong believers. The Church is waning hard in Austria - in a good part because of the unbelievable child abuse / coverups by Austrian Bishops & Cardinals close to the two previous popes!
That said, I was stunned to find out how many of my super cool, creative, solid AF Kiwi friends had been captured by Christian cults (never the Catholics it seems, here) in their youths. It’s almost like a rite of passage to have gone through some super weird culty shit in your awkward teen years, to come out a better human leaving all that crap behind you… mind you, I’ve also heard horrific stories of abuse & this is largely Pākeha friends. But I know few who haven’t at least been at the edge of something like the Churches you describe here in their teens - prolly around the late 90s / early 2000s. Any Kiwis here have similar experiences?
On the edge, yeah - as a young teen I was in a liberal, leftish Presbyterian youth group associated with our family's church in Dunedin. That church and group was quite open to a practially atheist Lloyd Geering type interpretation of Christianity. We did meet many of the other youth groups around the city though, and there was a lot of that 'spiritual battle' type stuff, people genuinely deep into a theology in which they were fighting demons etc. We were more into all-night video evenings and the 24 hour book sale.
The evangelical types used to tour the high schools etc and run 'concerts' with a slick cover band. They'd invite people to a proper concert at the town hall, more soft rock etc and a light show and then half way through the night people would be coming to Jesus, approaching the stage and collapsing, all that shit. I assume that's still going on?
Wow. In Austria, we had the "Burschenschaften", aka Nazi fraternities do similar rounds with us young teens in school. No religious overtones, just god old-fashioned fascism!
I was raised Christian and have seen this US-style evangelical ‘freedom at any costs’ mentality infect well-meaning people in NZ. How anyone can read the bible and decide Jesus would be about personal ‘freedom’ at the expense of others (to the point of tolerating white supremacy) is absolutely beyond me - complete cognitive dissonance. And so deeply culty. This piece on Voices for Freedom indicates it too is just an actual Scientology-style cult/MLM at its core https://twitter.com/conehell/status/1496282562150674432?s=21.
I often think about this Rachel Held Evans view on interpretation of the bible (I was raised fundy) when I’m baffled by how they justify their appalling cruelty - “If you are looking for verses with which to support slavery, you will find them. If you are looking for verses with which to abolish slavery, you will find them. If you are looking for verses with which to oppress women, you will find them. If you are looking for for verses with which to liberate or honor women, you will find them. If you are looking for reasons to wage war, you will find them. If you are looking for reasons to promote peace, you will find them. If you are looking for an out-dated, irrelevant ancient text, you will find it. If you are looking for truth, believe me, you will find it. This is why there are times when the most instructive question to bring to the text is not "what does it say?", but "what am I looking for?" I suspect Jesus knew this when he said, "ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened." If you want to do violence in this world, you will always find the weapons. If you want to heal, you will always find the balm.”
That is poignant AF. Best description of the Bible I’ve ever read 🙌
Nail:Head.
Thanks Emily, I love RHE
RHE and Nadia Bolz-Weber have been great for me in deconstructing ❤️
Sad not to have Rachel still with us. Nadia is awesome!
Thanks so much for this, Emily.
I read that article and the swaruu/starseed content is really out there (www.swaruu.org). A group of Alien’s purportedly protecting Earth and talking to select people which has been going on since 2015. And these alien’s all look like young women modelling students wearing SF cosplay suits. And they’re very concerned about vaccines. It seems like alien cult groups have latched onto vaccines as a mobilising evil tyranny story too, just like the Dominion Theology churches above.
But is there actual evidence of a direct link to VFF in that expose? Maybe I missed it. Just because Gerd Ruschhaupt is into some weird Scientology-esque stuff (PSYCHE-K) and built their websites could be indirect. Similarly, the swaruu.org forum guy is just promoting VFF to like-minded anti-vaxxers.
Maybe it is all linked or it’s just people with similarly fringe beliefs finding each other.
I suspect the latter is true.
VFF is flat out fraud. It reminds me of the IRS and lottery scams that are particularly targeted toward elderly people in the US. My partner's parents (partner is a Kiwi, I'm American) told us they were going to see a doctor about vaccines maybe a year or so ago. We were thrilled to hear this until we heard what it actually was, Peter Canaday, an American radiologist living in NZ, who has the shadiest LinkedIn page I have ever seen.
https://nz.linkedin.com/in/peter-canaday-7195b98
VFF had been banned from FB at this point but were putting flyers in mailboxes and had these huge billboards around NZ which "donations" could help fund. I put donations in quotes because this is not a non-profit and they have no reporting requirements as far as I could find. The donation page starts with "Freedom isn't free....Turns out that freedom isn't free, in fact it's a pretty expensive business...." - the suggested donation amounts go from $28 to $1200 real quick.
I encourage City Impact Church to reflect on the "My Body My Choice" t-shirts and signs outside parliament
Grifters are going to grift and hypocrites are going to… what’s a word that means “come up with convenient excuses to mask the massive internal inconsistencies in their positions”?
It's a sickening thing to co-opt, eh.
Do they make Pro-choice/Pro-life t-shirts already?
if they don't, they should....coz they still wouldn't get it, lol
I have spoken many times here (thanks for listening fellow worms) about my radicalised antivax, VFF supporting mother. You guessed it, she is absolutely a fundy, and has bounced around numerous fringe Protestant groups for years. I think the link between doomsday catastrophizing and being antivax cannot be understated. She sees everything as a ‘sign’ that the world will soon end, but also since her core beliefs are inherently unprovable, her ability to think critically is practically non-existent. Everything comes back to ‘god’s plan’ and there is no trust in any government, the media or any experts because everyone is stupid and only *she* is in possession of the truth.
I'm sorry. It's going to be near impossible for her to ever change. I'm sorry you have to witness this shit. It's heartbreaking.
Maybe a slight tangent, sorry! But your mention of the New Conservatives got me. I’m becoming increasingly fascinated/baffled by Chantelle Baker and her followers. Her videos started out predictable enough but lately she seems to have seamlessly pivoted to shilling her father Leighton Baker (maybe NZ’s biggest failure of a politician? Had we not also been blessed by Colin Craig) as “the person NZ needs” etc. Her followers, many of whom are instantly ready to believe in whatever random conspiracy theory she chucks out have jumped on board calling him a great leader etc.
What’s my point? I’m not sure - I think I am just bemused/sad at how a group of people can be so taken in. These are people who seem to immediately disbelieve anything the government/mainstream media says, but when an “independent” news source starts promoting a figurehead they just follow along without asking any questions about potential ulterior motives.
She's rare in this scene in NZ where she is young, TV-ready and quite savvy on social. She leans enough into the crazy to capture that base, but not as far as some. Also, it's been great seeing these groups all yelling at each other. Some great footage of people yelling at her, telling her she's a plant / controlled opposition etc. Wild shit. What a shitshow.
So true. I was naive enough to think she might pause to reflect on her approach when her partner was treated badly by the protestors and when she had to publicly declare she is not a freemason, but of course not!
Anyway if Leighton Baker is the answer I don’t want to know the question.
Don't ignore the way the "vibe" of a kind of togetherness can affect people in a situation such as the protest site. In this lovely weather, I suspect they feel that right is on their side. It can encourage even the hesitant to climb on board.
Totally. She’s not even feigning objectivity anymore. Last night she was down there cheering on the protesters who moved the concrete bollard to let a bunch more cars through (and also telling off in her BF/cameraman in a way unbefitting of a good conservative woman)
Really important to have this out there. The veneer of decency is deceptive and completely ignored when the line about "only a few bad eggs" is trotted out. The danger is insidious not overt, which makes it worse
I tend to lump the alt right racists and the pentecostal churchy types all in together - with the straight up alt right racists at least being at least a bit more honest than the churchy types when it comes to their intent and agenda. The churchy types are just straight out manipulative a**holes, well aware of what they are doing in using their 'flock' in pursuit of their nasty hidden agenda, much the same as the alt rights'. Have heard this b-s rhetoric so often from religions that i makes me wonder why ANYONE in their right mind (i.e. not pentecostal or down any rabbit holes) in this country could possible vote for a conservative right wing government knowing that this kind of mindset supports it. Beggars belief. Sick and twisted shite of the highest order.
There's a reason they lump in together so easily, too.
That quote “I am the gate for the sheep” gave me a moment of mirth. Funny how all the conspiracy theorists like to say the non conspiracy theorists are the sheep!!
Also I have gone down the Heavens Cult Porirua rabbit hole before - just tucked away innocently in amongst the shops. At least they’re not disguising their true nature there. It’s really just plastered out there for all to see.
Final observation: Peter Mortlock’s sunglasses. Is he styling himself after Eli Gemstone? Where the fuck do you even get sunglasses like that in NZ? The man is a walking caricature.
He is 100% caricature. It's wild. Also - I am very late to the party on Heaven's Gate Porirua Edition - but glad I've arrived. Beam me up.
Interestingly, I know the Perreaux's. Although they are definately at the extreme "demonology" end of the Pentecostal spectrum (and Peter's story accounts for that), they are good humoured and kind people. The unfortunate naming of their church would have been out of complete ignorance of the cult in California - a naive coincidence. However, I still had a good chuckle at the way you wrote it up - they probably did too.
I just put my little thoughts into a song
"Pull your trousers up, your nARSEcisim's showing
Your third eye is a brown eye
Your temple's portaloo
Lets hear your spirits talking
I hear they speak in dungs
Opinions are like arseholes
Reckons rhymes with rectums
You just see connections
I just see the full of your moon"
https://mrsterileassembly.bandcamp.com/album/speaking-in-dungs
Many thanks. A fan.
Excellent! Had the pleasure of your live concerts quite a few times, this would be a banger! Be well.
thanks... maybe one we'll get to gig again but community health takes priority :-)
Yes being a normal responsible adult in these times is seen as being truly radical :)(:
What is John Lithgow doing at the Wellington occupation and why is he wearing those ugly glasses?
I thought of Jim Jones first.
I dunno, I got a Jimmy Saville vibe from the glasses and shock of white hair and presumably expensive but cheap-looking teeth caps.
Not to mention the paedophile vibe…
I know in jest, but let's keep comments like this out of things! There's enough mindless debate about pedophiles - I think it's such a serious thing we shouldn't mention it in passing, even as a gag. The guy's an asshole without rumour!
Well there is what, two known sex offenders who’ve been at the protest…? :/
Some Jonestown vibes there for sure.
Dominionists remind me of the ground work that Martin Luther laid for the German people culturally, as in teaching vile hatred for its own Jewish Citizens and their persecution in his time as virtue.
It was no surprise what was done to them eventually as there was a perpetual culture of the Church teaching superiority of self, hate of the other.
When comfort from faith leads to deluded action from a place of absolute certainty, superiority it's something else.
These elements in our N.Z society at glance seem like low level grifters looking for more followers and revenue. But believing they are destined to rule over us, and are networked to their U.S Mega Movements, l am concerned still.
Once again painful article David for our times.
Yikes. Antisemitism is popping up in parts of this Wellington crowd. I heard an interview on RNZ the other morning with the Chair of the Wellington Jewish Council, and he's justifiably concerned about the language some of the protestors are using. I wonder how much of the white supremacist bollocks is fed by religious nutters? https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018831661/covid-19-jewish-community-worried-by-nazi-statements-at-parliament-protest
It's definitely the canary in the coal mine, l think the way LGBT, women's rights are treated fall into this category as well.
I wish I had the chutzpah to lie on my CV like Peter Perreaux does.
It really is a trip.
I have zero time for religion of any sort. They are all as bonkers as each other but some are the most bonkers. Your mate Peter Perreaux made some damn good stereo gear back in the day: https://perreaux.com/about . He should have stuck to that though there is something almost cult-y about the audiophile community - or parts of it - as well (DAMHIK).
This is FASCINATING. What an interesting link. I wonder when his rabbit hole started (well, I guess his backstory on the website explains it, but still - I am sure some other instigating factors!)
He’s that Perreaux!?! Whoa!
Clearly exposed to too much emf back in the day...
Firstly, I enjoyed Constantine so how dare you. Though it might join the ranks of movies I shouldn't rewatch like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Boston Legal, The Blindside, and Rush Hour.
Secondly, I think there has been a steady disconnect growing between conservative Christianity and the rest of society for a long time. I'm reminded of that graph in The Social Experiment, I think, where it showed how social media polarizes left and right so that there is barely any overlap. There are a large number of things which have changed which can and have polarized both conservative blinkered Christians and other Christians who slowly feel like their line in the sand is being crossed. I'm trying to make it mildly chronological and I'll make mistakes and ignore racism as a conservative value for now... but it kinda mighta started with, separation of church and state, losing "values" in media, with porn legalization and kissing on tv, with abortion, then moving onto LGBTQI+ rights, marriage, drug legalization, euthanasia, etc. These things can all offend Mortlock types, and lead them to mistrust anything that a supportive wokey leftish government run-by-a-woman-even does.
They're blinded, they can't separate their issues from reality because all their other rage and angst blinds them from engaging critically. They can't even see that our religion calls for us to take care of each other and have been sucked into the selfish MY RIGHTS screeeee sort of mentality.
Thirdly, I'm rambling and will stop.
You do good rambles.
And you're right - the disconnect is HUGE. The world is moving, and quickly - and these old ideas trying to make sense of it end up in some truly terrible places.
Really frustrating for Christians who just like Jesus and his teachings, who have to deal with all this cooked theology going on with their peers.
I was raised a Catholic in an arch-Catholic country, yet even tho it was forced down our throats by the school, our families & even the state (church taxes!), very few of my compatriots were strong believers. The Church is waning hard in Austria - in a good part because of the unbelievable child abuse / coverups by Austrian Bishops & Cardinals close to the two previous popes!
That said, I was stunned to find out how many of my super cool, creative, solid AF Kiwi friends had been captured by Christian cults (never the Catholics it seems, here) in their youths. It’s almost like a rite of passage to have gone through some super weird culty shit in your awkward teen years, to come out a better human leaving all that crap behind you… mind you, I’ve also heard horrific stories of abuse & this is largely Pākeha friends. But I know few who haven’t at least been at the edge of something like the Churches you describe here in their teens - prolly around the late 90s / early 2000s. Any Kiwis here have similar experiences?
As an aside, I see some trippy Catholic appearances going on now too: https://twitter.com/byroncclark/status/1496752789246164992
'Twas only a matter of time... our Parliament is now the black hole for deranged cockwombles of all stripes and sizes :(
On the edge, yeah - as a young teen I was in a liberal, leftish Presbyterian youth group associated with our family's church in Dunedin. That church and group was quite open to a practially atheist Lloyd Geering type interpretation of Christianity. We did meet many of the other youth groups around the city though, and there was a lot of that 'spiritual battle' type stuff, people genuinely deep into a theology in which they were fighting demons etc. We were more into all-night video evenings and the 24 hour book sale.
The evangelical types used to tour the high schools etc and run 'concerts' with a slick cover band. They'd invite people to a proper concert at the town hall, more soft rock etc and a light show and then half way through the night people would be coming to Jesus, approaching the stage and collapsing, all that shit. I assume that's still going on?
This was early 1990s.
Wow. In Austria, we had the "Burschenschaften", aka Nazi fraternities do similar rounds with us young teens in school. No religious overtones, just god old-fashioned fascism!
1989 had some great acid huh?
That is a possible explanation for all this!