Can’t wait for all the Arbonne Babes to come out swinging ‘not OUR ONE, OUR ONE is a hEalTh and WELLnEsS affliliate MARKETING programme and if it didn’t work for you, you didn’t work hard enough!’
I do too. Such a freaking shame, the ways in which these words/terms and processes are being co-opted by a myriad of (often un-trained and unregulated) toxic positivity movement peeps. It means that those of us actually working as registered counsellors/therapists in the mental health domain feel completely 'ick' if we catch ourselves using these terms in legitimate ways - or WORSE - find out we are being lumped in with that stuff. Ugh, no.
I actually used to own a business networking company and I had people coming along trying to convince me that they had a real business and they were selling Arbonne. Arbonne is selling a passive income opportunity not product, you only make money from recruiting other people. Once they finished selling all their friends and family the products it all dies. They are selling the dream of the paradise, just like a religious cult.
I lost a friend when I refused to invite ALL my FB friends to one of her "seminars". At first, I politely declined, but they were relentless, using many forms of emotional manipulation which meant my response escalated with each attempt. It irreparably harmed that relationship when I finally lost my sh!t and told them exactly what I thought of the scheme and them for trying to suck me into it. I will also mention, that this person and I do not even live in the same countries but they were hoping to extend their network globally.
The "wellness" element of Arbonne makes it particularly heinous.
A LOT of MLM’s come out of Utah - which also happens to be a very religious and republican state. They have less government regulation there making it easier for them to grow. There’s a great podcast on MLMs called The Dream that looks into these MLM events, getting sucked in, who their target audience are and why the government won’t touch them. It also briefly touches on the crossover of religion and MLMs.
If you’re after a lol, the Facebook group “sounds like MLM but ok” is also worth a visit. It’s more individual examples of Huns (“Hey hun!”) in the wild. Some of them are 😚👌🏻
Totally recommend "The Dream" podcast also. First series is MLMs and second is Wellness grift. Both done pre pandemic and very relevant to how people got sucked into the "cult" of conspiracy theories. Definitely give this podcast a listen.
That podcast was EXCELLENT! Can't recommend it highly enough! After I listened to that, I made the lifestyle choice to never buy from another MLM. I guess you could say that is MY health and wellness scheme! :)
I feel the religious/spiritual element is really played up, especially with the American based (I guess most of them are!) This is really random: I have a friend who bought into Younique, selling cosmetics. It’s a classic MLM (from Utah) with a BIG focus on personal growth - they give seminars on building people’s self esteem and confidence. It’s totally sucking money from the mostly poor and the mostly young - also mostly women. And Younique have the cynical agenda of keeping these women poor and at the bottom of their pyramid. However, my friend gained a lot of positive growth from the experience… and then left. She had plenty to say about the bad aspects of it but in way it enriched her life. Obviously the opposite of what “the business” intended. The only thing this story illustrates is the way a con operates really - get them with kindness and make them feel like they belong, then treat them badly. I thought it was nice to hear to know it doesn’t always work out for the big guy eh!
Unfortunately- statistically, a lot of those women lose everything - financial security, relationships, even access to their children. They get gold in their eyes based off of false promises. Garages full of unmovable stock. A friend of mine grew up in it - their garage was always full of stuff and their pantry was often empty. The most toxic element of it - the upline managers tell them “if you aren’t making your targets, it’s because YOU don’t want it enough” nothing to do with the subpar product or the tactics required to sell the crap.
Jonathan is like the dream client for his lawyer. I hope he’s getting charged $1000 an hour for his lawyer to read your article, the full email chain, drafting a nonsense letter asking you to correct or withdraw your comments (presumably updating the usual template), and a few phone calls explaining how truth and honest opinion works in a legal sense.
There’s a great podcast called The Dream that digs into the history & current state of MLMs. Basically Amway is the ur-MLM and the money they threw at politicians (and their own political affiliations - is the name DeVos familiar?) got them out of being charged as a pyramid scheme thus paving the way for every other MLM to claim they’re structured just like Amway & since Amway was found not to be an MLM then neither are they. Money & politics is a horrible combination :/
This reminded of the Herald article on Wayne Brown bitching to his “grumpy old men” tennis mates about having to talk to the “media drongos” & then asking “please don’t [publish it]” when confronted with the evidence.
Actually, no this is much worse as he goes to immediate legal threats after being shown up as an utter arsehole with his first response. Can’t wait to see you open up another can of worthy whoopass David! Hopefully, it’ll help folks not get hoodwinked and lose their hard earned money.
Dr Sea, I love how you managed to take a well-deserved jab at Wayne Brown while still staying on topic.
I actually looked up "how to fire the Auckland mayor" and the answer is only if he commits a crime of some sort can the council act against him. Literally no-one can fire him. He is elected for three years until someone else gets elected.
Mmmmmm, well I actually tell people I have the reading and writing level of a 9.3-year-old, left school at the age of 14 and have the gift of dyslexia. I use voice recognition to compose all my messages and I use text to speak software (Apple) so I can comprehend the words on the screen, if I read the words I literally don't understand them.
Then I go on to say, if someone with my education can work out this is a Pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme or a Scam why can't educated people not see this.
The problem with Crypto is many people are learning the ropes and they bamboozle people with terminology that it's hard for the educated person to even understand. Because these people don't get their head around it they will rely on a friend or family members recommendation instead.
One guy phone me telling me he invested $26,000 quit his job and was going to live of the passive income. That lasted for two months, then the platform stopped paying out rewards in USDT now he tells me his wife is the only breadwinner and the bills mounting and he's depressed.
I've done zoom meetings with people that have invested $5 million into these Ponzi schemes and lost the lot, a lot of the people that lose their money are heading to retirement and using the pension funds to invest it's disgusting.
I think it's because us human beings are a lot less rational and act on emotion more than we realise.
Once someone accepts how flawed their brain is, it's easier to apply critical thinking and logic when confronted by an MLM or Crypto scheme.
Not that I'm an expert on human psychology or anything but that's how I've managed to avoid getting scammed out of money so far.
In regards to Crypto, I found it incredibly isolating in 2019-2020 when I was surrounded by very pro-crypto family members making everyone's eyes light up with prospect of becoming crypto millionaires.
I tried my best to point out the obvious flaws in the whole thing but got knocked back so many times I ended up staying quiet whenever anyone brought it up
It was only after a fellow worm pointed me to Stephen Diehl and some of his articles that I realized there were other crypto-skeptics in the world and I felt a little less alone.
Plus Stephen does a really good job of explaining some of the deeper financial related flaws behind crypto.
I’ve been given my share of stories! This one takes the cake, a friend of mine convinced his Chinese parents to let him invest there live savings $375,000 USD he invested it on crypto exchanges, over two years he turned it into $5 million NZD at one point he withdraw all the money and basically was telling me I didn’t know anything about Crypto and I should invest regularly.
For the record, to date I think I made $600 by putting money on a “shit coin” that 10x and I currently have no Crypto investments just in case you think I’m a crypto genius…
So he decided to put the $5 million back into crypto and he lost $3 million in about two days. He was devastated he went from being quite smug to feeling suicidal. I had to have some pretty stern talks with him about his personal welfare to make sure he was okay he is in a good state of mind again.
This is literally why are you see videos like this on my YouTube channel “Are you a HyperNation Ponzi Scheme Victim! Contemplating Suicide? Understanding & Preventing Suicide” https://youtu.be/XNOxeoijwg0
The psychology of that was quite interesting to say the least. He done remarkably, well however wasn’t using his own money he was praised by his family and they were hoping to immigrate to New Zealand. He had the shame of having to tell his family they couldn’t immigrate to New Zealand. He also hadn’t really lost his money he lost his parents money.
Now anybody reading this you’re probably thinking he still made $1.5 million, well his parents did, as it wasn’t his money, however he was the one that was feeling suicidal, he was the one that had the big rise and had the big fall as well as the humiliation. I had to ask him some pretty pointed questions without blinking when he spewed out what had actually happened.
I’m sure there’s a lot of people they were isolated over Covid who are living with good stories and some bad stories. I think we really need to ask people how they are doing never assume that people are okay because you don’t actually know what silly investment they got themselves into and of course you never know the true story.
Personally anything to do with Crypto + MLM/Rewards = Scam it’s not rocket science it’s de Hek science.
I would suggest that it’s not a reading level which suggests that someone is educated but it’s their ability to think critically. This lack of critical thinking combined with our society’s decreasing attention span creates an environment where these sorts of modern cults and scams can flourish.
Critical thinking I love it that’s all I do all day long is think, my brain hurts, I’ve got steam coming out my ears. I’ve got a cunning plan, that 3 am wake up “I know what I’ll do” I literally have to take notes to provide structure before I start a new task but I find it very productive and you are correct it is “critical thinking”
The other side of it is people that criticise your thinking however that there’s a different conversation.
However I have a standard reply…
“Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining” – Teddy Roosevelt.
I got a phone call from the Novatel this morning, waiting for them to return my call. it’s awesome to have this article so I can show them that people are not happy that they’re hosting an event.
I appreciate the opportunity and definitely want to help expose these bastards can I say bastards on your thread?
I spend 80% of my week fighting these Ponzi schemes. Did you know that 52% of the money that people invest goes out in rewards to the people that refer, this was the referral structure for HyperVerse.
If I invested $1000 the person who referred me would be able to get $200 out in USDT straight away, however if they chose to leave it on the platform they would pay $600 plus a 5% bonus over 600 days. If the person they originally referred also referred someone else and they invested $1000, the initial person will get another $150 and so on and so on.
Multilevel marketing is different to Ponzi schemes none of these companies actually have an income other than selling memberships this is what makes them Ponzi schemes. It disgusts me just about as much as religious cults.
Don't quote me.. ok I'll just screenshot your email. He's gonna be so pissed (chuckle).
In all seriousness, journalists really do have to keep writing about this crap, it has never stopped and will never stop. A new one will pop up. Emotional scams are rife as well. It sucks.
MLMs and Churches are so similar. A lot of people that I know that get sucked into MLMs are also very actively involved in church. Interesting correlations.
Totally. It's this strange thing that is this distrust of the secular world, in a way. This MLM crypto crowd has this "off the grid" / "not part of this world" mentality - all shared by the megachurch / Evangelical / Pentecostal subset. And yeah - charismatic leaders, secret knowledge, a feeling of superiority, having these weird goals to get to. And all this endless talk of money, money, money.
The money and wanting to be a part of something special.
The LuLaRoe types too feel super predatory in a way. Every stay at home mom from my hometown was selling those leggings. It makes sense. The illusion of running your own business from your house, making money, having parties, working on your own schedule.
The social connections and trust within a religious community often allow those to spread within a church membership with little pushback or questioning, and so those often become targets to "land and expand" for those looking for new recruits/suckers.
yea....Amway springs to mind - a lot of those people were pentecostal types, and the meetings that were described to me about uplining etc sounded hideously like church style preachings in the AoG to me.....
I hate them with a passion, the last event I attended I was that guy that stood up and told everyone not to invest any money in this opportunity, telling the audience, "you will lose it all straight away" then I walked out and people followed me, I felt like the Pied Piper.
I think we need to speak out about these unethical business opportunities even if it makes us look like we have a many issues which I probably do. They're not selling a product or service the selling the concept of a passive income.
Well sometimes I watch my own videos and think I hope I don’t come across as some idiot so thank you for the vote of confidence.
I did a lot of speaker training as I actually wanted to preach my message about being an ex- Jehovah’s Witness and my journey is a dyslexic person.
Speaking to yourself in front of a camera for periods of up to 5 hours at a time certainly made me reinvent the wheel and the way I communicate to people.
I believe if you do something you’re passionate about it all comes naturally and there’s no way in hell I ever thought I’d be busting Ponzi schemes.
It’s always nerve wrecking when you receive a cease-and-desist letter even from a scammer, sometimes you lose your nerve and confidence is a big part of whatever this is I am doing.
And many of these people (not all but many) seem to have struggled with education, not gone on to tertiary education or had quite limited opportunities for education through varying forms of isolation. I think of some of my extended family when these stories come up.
Sorry but if you are already into evangelism or you find yourself drawn to the plethora of conspiracy crap that suffuses modern life, you really are like that deer in the Larson cartoon with the unfortunate birthmark to these shysters. https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/564638872007927576/
And don't they know it! It might be a coincidence that at least one of the caring mums linked to Voices for Freedom also peddles this stuff, but we're constantly reminded that there are no coincidences.
No surprise at all that VFF would be drawn in. It's also this idea of being "out of the system", too. A few people I looked into for this piece talk of their distrust for banks etc - hence getting into crypto. I am no fan of banks, but yeah - this obsession with being "not of this world" bleeds into it too, I think.
I was in an evangelical church for a decade. The MLMs praying on women in the congregation were so numerous. All you had to do was run the numbers to discover these ladies were making just a few bucks an hour based on the vast time and effort they were putting in.
I was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness got kicked out of it for the second time when I was 23 years of age. Are used to believe the elders and the minister servants who are preaching from the stages. So glad to have my life back now even though it’s been tarnished by this religious cult 
Can’t wait for all the Arbonne Babes to come out swinging ‘not OUR ONE, OUR ONE is a hEalTh and WELLnEsS affliliate MARKETING programme and if it didn’t work for you, you didn’t work hard enough!’
Does anyone else vomit a little whenever they see the word ‘wellness’ now?
I do :)
My fight or flight activated immediately 😂
I do too. Such a freaking shame, the ways in which these words/terms and processes are being co-opted by a myriad of (often un-trained and unregulated) toxic positivity movement peeps. It means that those of us actually working as registered counsellors/therapists in the mental health domain feel completely 'ick' if we catch ourselves using these terms in legitimate ways - or WORSE - find out we are being lumped in with that stuff. Ugh, no.
I actually used to own a business networking company and I had people coming along trying to convince me that they had a real business and they were selling Arbonne. Arbonne is selling a passive income opportunity not product, you only make money from recruiting other people. Once they finished selling all their friends and family the products it all dies. They are selling the dream of the paradise, just like a religious cult.
Keep up the good work Danny. Just read about you in the Listener.
Absolutely wrapped to be in the Listener! The reporter did a fantastic job at capturing what I'm trying to achieve thank you so much Rob.
I lost a friend when I refused to invite ALL my FB friends to one of her "seminars". At first, I politely declined, but they were relentless, using many forms of emotional manipulation which meant my response escalated with each attempt. It irreparably harmed that relationship when I finally lost my sh!t and told them exactly what I thought of the scheme and them for trying to suck me into it. I will also mention, that this person and I do not even live in the same countries but they were hoping to extend their network globally.
The "wellness" element of Arbonne makes it particularly heinous.
Join me at UR-IN, the fastest way to earn imaginary "money". It isn't a scam.
HOW DO I JOIN?!!!!
Easy! Sign up is free if you use your credit card
Ahh damn I just put all my money into "PuPu"
"We've been putting the trickle-down into economics since 2022!"
These names are acknowledgements that you and We-wee both know right from the beginning that you're taking the piss
A LOT of MLM’s come out of Utah - which also happens to be a very religious and republican state. They have less government regulation there making it easier for them to grow. There’s a great podcast on MLMs called The Dream that looks into these MLM events, getting sucked in, who their target audience are and why the government won’t touch them. It also briefly touches on the crossover of religion and MLMs.
You are the second person to mention THE DREAM. On it.
And a good point to look into this if I end up in Utah again. It could be a good Flightless Bird, too. Mormons and MLMs.
If you’re after a lol, the Facebook group “sounds like MLM but ok” is also worth a visit. It’s more individual examples of Huns (“Hey hun!”) in the wild. Some of them are 😚👌🏻
I was on there for awhile but it all got too much!
Yes to the dream and to ‘sounds like MLM but ok’
Tara Westover’s memoir Educated is an eye opener too - I think her mother’s essential oils business is now being run as an MLM.
Plus one for The Dream
Totally recommend "The Dream" podcast also. First series is MLMs and second is Wellness grift. Both done pre pandemic and very relevant to how people got sucked into the "cult" of conspiracy theories. Definitely give this podcast a listen.
typo: the extra "m" in the antepenultimate word?
That podcast was EXCELLENT! Can't recommend it highly enough! After I listened to that, I made the lifestyle choice to never buy from another MLM. I guess you could say that is MY health and wellness scheme! :)
Yep - same here. I was pretty shocked to learn that the body shop operates as an MLM in parts of the world.
Apparently they’ve walked back the MLM aspect of their business, but maybe they’ve just rebranded?
I hope so! It’s such a yuck way to sell your products - especially when they’re as well known and popular as theirs are
I didn’t know that! Where does that happen?
Nope, body shops mlm ‘Body Shop at Home’ is still alive and kicking. They’re definitely in Oz, not sure about NZ :/
https://www.thebodyshop.com/en-au/customer-care/bodyshopathome
They have a direct selling branch of their business in Australia and the UK
Yeah I got that wrong, thought I’d read somewhere they’d pulled that part of the business but perhaps it was only in the USA
“Direct sales” = MLM
I feel the religious/spiritual element is really played up, especially with the American based (I guess most of them are!) This is really random: I have a friend who bought into Younique, selling cosmetics. It’s a classic MLM (from Utah) with a BIG focus on personal growth - they give seminars on building people’s self esteem and confidence. It’s totally sucking money from the mostly poor and the mostly young - also mostly women. And Younique have the cynical agenda of keeping these women poor and at the bottom of their pyramid. However, my friend gained a lot of positive growth from the experience… and then left. She had plenty to say about the bad aspects of it but in way it enriched her life. Obviously the opposite of what “the business” intended. The only thing this story illustrates is the way a con operates really - get them with kindness and make them feel like they belong, then treat them badly. I thought it was nice to hear to know it doesn’t always work out for the big guy eh!
Unfortunately- statistically, a lot of those women lose everything - financial security, relationships, even access to their children. They get gold in their eyes based off of false promises. Garages full of unmovable stock. A friend of mine grew up in it - their garage was always full of stuff and their pantry was often empty. The most toxic element of it - the upline managers tell them “if you aren’t making your targets, it’s because YOU don’t want it enough” nothing to do with the subpar product or the tactics required to sell the crap.
Jonathan is like the dream client for his lawyer. I hope he’s getting charged $1000 an hour for his lawyer to read your article, the full email chain, drafting a nonsense letter asking you to correct or withdraw your comments (presumably updating the usual template), and a few phone calls explaining how truth and honest opinion works in a legal sense.
There are several parallels between religious cults and people who run Ponzi schemes:
1) Both rely on persuasion and manipulation to recruit and retain members/victims.
2) Both often use charismatic leaders to gain followers/victims.
3) Both may use secrecy and isolation to control members/victims and prevent them from leaving or speaking out.
4) Both may use propaganda and misinformation to maintain the loyalty of members/victims.
5) Both may use financial incentives to recruit and retain members/victims.
6) Both may use threats and intimidation to silence dissent and maintain control.
7) Both may prey on vulnerable individuals, such as those who are financially or emotionally distressed.
8) Both may use a sense of community or belonging to keep members/victims committed.
9) Both may exploit the trust and loyalty of members/victims for personal gain.
10) Both may cause significant harm to members/victims, including financial ruin and emotional trauma.
11) Both may use the guise of a legitimate organisation or cause to mask their true intentions.
12) Both may use techniques such as hypnosis or brainwashing to control members/victims.
13) Both may use group pressure and peer influence to coerce members/victims into compliance.
14) Both may use rewards and punishments to control behaviour and maintain loyalty.
15) Both may use emotional appeals and appeals to higher ideals to justify their actions.
16) Both may use the promise of a better future or a utopian vision to attract and retain members/victims.
17) Both may use fear and anxiety to control and manipulate members/victims.
18) Both may use legal and financial tactics to intimidate and silence dissent.
19) Both may use deceptive and manipulative language to mislead and deceive members/victims.
20) Both may engage in unethical and illegal activities to further their goals and protect their interests.
Number 11 hit home for me.
I love the comments almost as much as the post. Go David! Go webworm subscribers! Y’all give me hope for this world!
A lot of lolz in here too, which is needed :)
There’s a great podcast called The Dream that digs into the history & current state of MLMs. Basically Amway is the ur-MLM and the money they threw at politicians (and their own political affiliations - is the name DeVos familiar?) got them out of being charged as a pyramid scheme thus paving the way for every other MLM to claim they’re structured just like Amway & since Amway was found not to be an MLM then neither are they. Money & politics is a horrible combination :/
Omg I LOVED the Dream. I wish there was more of it!
They had a teaser for a new season but then I listened & it was promoting a podcast about Britney Spears... and I don’t think she’s running an MLM?
This reminded of the Herald article on Wayne Brown bitching to his “grumpy old men” tennis mates about having to talk to the “media drongos” & then asking “please don’t [publish it]” when confronted with the evidence.
Actually, no this is much worse as he goes to immediate legal threats after being shown up as an utter arsehole with his first response. Can’t wait to see you open up another can of worthy whoopass David! Hopefully, it’ll help folks not get hoodwinked and lose their hard earned money.
The sad thing is - barely anyone voted. Less than 30% of eligible voters. This is what you get! ARGHHH
Dr Sea, I love how you managed to take a well-deserved jab at Wayne Brown while still staying on topic.
I actually looked up "how to fire the Auckland mayor" and the answer is only if he commits a crime of some sort can the council act against him. Literally no-one can fire him. He is elected for three years until someone else gets elected.
https://governance.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/3-elected-members/removal-from-office/
Seriously? That is a problem… poor Auckland! Although 4 people may have died due to his negligence 🤨
I think the govt created the job of "Minister for Auckland" to babysit idiot Wayne-o
“Appreciate the chat”
Again... it's that megachurch smarminess, right? All the same shit.
Low energy, hyper-bitchy, trying to make you feel like you’re something he accidentally stepped in.
No surprise there. They are both based on the shameless exploitation of the vulnerable.
None of your business. Kind regards
Mmmmmm, well I actually tell people I have the reading and writing level of a 9.3-year-old, left school at the age of 14 and have the gift of dyslexia. I use voice recognition to compose all my messages and I use text to speak software (Apple) so I can comprehend the words on the screen, if I read the words I literally don't understand them.
Then I go on to say, if someone with my education can work out this is a Pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme or a Scam why can't educated people not see this.
The problem with Crypto is many people are learning the ropes and they bamboozle people with terminology that it's hard for the educated person to even understand. Because these people don't get their head around it they will rely on a friend or family members recommendation instead.
One guy phone me telling me he invested $26,000 quit his job and was going to live of the passive income. That lasted for two months, then the platform stopped paying out rewards in USDT now he tells me his wife is the only breadwinner and the bills mounting and he's depressed.
I've done zoom meetings with people that have invested $5 million into these Ponzi schemes and lost the lot, a lot of the people that lose their money are heading to retirement and using the pension funds to invest it's disgusting.
I think it's because us human beings are a lot less rational and act on emotion more than we realise.
Once someone accepts how flawed their brain is, it's easier to apply critical thinking and logic when confronted by an MLM or Crypto scheme.
Not that I'm an expert on human psychology or anything but that's how I've managed to avoid getting scammed out of money so far.
In regards to Crypto, I found it incredibly isolating in 2019-2020 when I was surrounded by very pro-crypto family members making everyone's eyes light up with prospect of becoming crypto millionaires.
I tried my best to point out the obvious flaws in the whole thing but got knocked back so many times I ended up staying quiet whenever anyone brought it up
It was only after a fellow worm pointed me to Stephen Diehl and some of his articles that I realized there were other crypto-skeptics in the world and I felt a little less alone.
Plus Stephen does a really good job of explaining some of the deeper financial related flaws behind crypto.
I’ve been given my share of stories! This one takes the cake, a friend of mine convinced his Chinese parents to let him invest there live savings $375,000 USD he invested it on crypto exchanges, over two years he turned it into $5 million NZD at one point he withdraw all the money and basically was telling me I didn’t know anything about Crypto and I should invest regularly.
For the record, to date I think I made $600 by putting money on a “shit coin” that 10x and I currently have no Crypto investments just in case you think I’m a crypto genius…
So he decided to put the $5 million back into crypto and he lost $3 million in about two days. He was devastated he went from being quite smug to feeling suicidal. I had to have some pretty stern talks with him about his personal welfare to make sure he was okay he is in a good state of mind again.
This is literally why are you see videos like this on my YouTube channel “Are you a HyperNation Ponzi Scheme Victim! Contemplating Suicide? Understanding & Preventing Suicide” https://youtu.be/XNOxeoijwg0
The psychology of that was quite interesting to say the least. He done remarkably, well however wasn’t using his own money he was praised by his family and they were hoping to immigrate to New Zealand. He had the shame of having to tell his family they couldn’t immigrate to New Zealand. He also hadn’t really lost his money he lost his parents money.
Now anybody reading this you’re probably thinking he still made $1.5 million, well his parents did, as it wasn’t his money, however he was the one that was feeling suicidal, he was the one that had the big rise and had the big fall as well as the humiliation. I had to ask him some pretty pointed questions without blinking when he spewed out what had actually happened.
I’m sure there’s a lot of people they were isolated over Covid who are living with good stories and some bad stories. I think we really need to ask people how they are doing never assume that people are okay because you don’t actually know what silly investment they got themselves into and of course you never know the true story.
Personally anything to do with Crypto + MLM/Rewards = Scam it’s not rocket science it’s de Hek science.
I would suggest that it’s not a reading level which suggests that someone is educated but it’s their ability to think critically. This lack of critical thinking combined with our society’s decreasing attention span creates an environment where these sorts of modern cults and scams can flourish.
Critical thinking I love it that’s all I do all day long is think, my brain hurts, I’ve got steam coming out my ears. I’ve got a cunning plan, that 3 am wake up “I know what I’ll do” I literally have to take notes to provide structure before I start a new task but I find it very productive and you are correct it is “critical thinking”
The other side of it is people that criticise your thinking however that there’s a different conversation.
However I have a standard reply…
“Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining” – Teddy Roosevelt.
HA542@accor.com
Is Novotel Christchurch email address
I sent this with a screenshot of the event.
These folks are scammers and you are hosting them. You are doing your own community a lot of harm.
It’s not too late to do a bit of your own research and discover just how dangerous this is. It’s 100% a brutal scam and currently you are involved.
I hope this is helpful to you
I got a phone call from the Novatel this morning, waiting for them to return my call. it’s awesome to have this article so I can show them that people are not happy that they’re hosting an event.
Great - the comments here can hopefully show some of the NZ feeling, too. Also Danny - thanks for all your help with this!
I appreciate the opportunity and definitely want to help expose these bastards can I say bastards on your thread?
I spend 80% of my week fighting these Ponzi schemes. Did you know that 52% of the money that people invest goes out in rewards to the people that refer, this was the referral structure for HyperVerse.
If I invested $1000 the person who referred me would be able to get $200 out in USDT straight away, however if they chose to leave it on the platform they would pay $600 plus a 5% bonus over 600 days. If the person they originally referred also referred someone else and they invested $1000, the initial person will get another $150 and so on and so on.
Multilevel marketing is different to Ponzi schemes none of these companies actually have an income other than selling memberships this is what makes them Ponzi schemes. It disgusts me just about as much as religious cults.
You can definitely say it :P
I'm pretty sure you could say "fucking low life bastards" on this thread, and nobody would complain.
David writes about a lot of bastards so yes indeed, say it! And good on you for helping to expose them.
Don't quote me.. ok I'll just screenshot your email. He's gonna be so pissed (chuckle).
In all seriousness, journalists really do have to keep writing about this crap, it has never stopped and will never stop. A new one will pop up. Emotional scams are rife as well. It sucks.
MLMs and Churches are so similar. A lot of people that I know that get sucked into MLMs are also very actively involved in church. Interesting correlations.
Totally. It's this strange thing that is this distrust of the secular world, in a way. This MLM crypto crowd has this "off the grid" / "not part of this world" mentality - all shared by the megachurch / Evangelical / Pentecostal subset. And yeah - charismatic leaders, secret knowledge, a feeling of superiority, having these weird goals to get to. And all this endless talk of money, money, money.
100%
The money and wanting to be a part of something special.
The LuLaRoe types too feel super predatory in a way. Every stay at home mom from my hometown was selling those leggings. It makes sense. The illusion of running your own business from your house, making money, having parties, working on your own schedule.
…it all sounds too good to be true… 😅
And then straight up prosperity gospel stuff, too. HORRID.
Don’t get me started on the religious parallels half the reason I bust these Ponzi schemes is because of the parallels I see and religious cults. I did a podcast with a couple of extra Jehovah’s Witnesses last month ”The Dangerous Deception of Religious Cults and Ponzi Schemes” https://www.dehek.com/general/ponzi-scheme-scamalerts/the-dangerous-deception-of-religious-cults-and-ponzi-schemes/
There’s so many similarities it’s ridiculous a paradise earth versus a beautiful ecosystem.
The social connections and trust within a religious community often allow those to spread within a church membership with little pushback or questioning, and so those often become targets to "land and expand" for those looking for new recruits/suckers.
yea....Amway springs to mind - a lot of those people were pentecostal types, and the meetings that were described to me about uplining etc sounded hideously like church style preachings in the AoG to me.....
I hate them with a passion, the last event I attended I was that guy that stood up and told everyone not to invest any money in this opportunity, telling the audience, "you will lose it all straight away" then I walked out and people followed me, I felt like the Pied Piper.
I think we need to speak out about these unethical business opportunities even if it makes us look like we have a many issues which I probably do. They're not selling a product or service the selling the concept of a passive income.
Go you!!! You are the best kind of Pied Piper - saving people from themselves AND these godawful predators. Mwah!
Love it.
I am totally jealous of your confidence to do that too 😜
Well sometimes I watch my own videos and think I hope I don’t come across as some idiot so thank you for the vote of confidence.
I did a lot of speaker training as I actually wanted to preach my message about being an ex- Jehovah’s Witness and my journey is a dyslexic person.
Speaking to yourself in front of a camera for periods of up to 5 hours at a time certainly made me reinvent the wheel and the way I communicate to people.
I believe if you do something you’re passionate about it all comes naturally and there’s no way in hell I ever thought I’d be busting Ponzi schemes.
It’s always nerve wrecking when you receive a cease-and-desist letter even from a scammer, sometimes you lose your nerve and confidence is a big part of whatever this is I am doing.
Don’t be too jealous ;-)
And many of these people (not all but many) seem to have struggled with education, not gone on to tertiary education or had quite limited opportunities for education through varying forms of isolation. I think of some of my extended family when these stories come up.
Sorry but if you are already into evangelism or you find yourself drawn to the plethora of conspiracy crap that suffuses modern life, you really are like that deer in the Larson cartoon with the unfortunate birthmark to these shysters. https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/564638872007927576/
And don't they know it! It might be a coincidence that at least one of the caring mums linked to Voices for Freedom also peddles this stuff, but we're constantly reminded that there are no coincidences.
No surprise at all that VFF would be drawn in. It's also this idea of being "out of the system", too. A few people I looked into for this piece talk of their distrust for banks etc - hence getting into crypto. I am no fan of banks, but yeah - this obsession with being "not of this world" bleeds into it too, I think.
I was in an evangelical church for a decade. The MLMs praying on women in the congregation were so numerous. All you had to do was run the numbers to discover these ladies were making just a few bucks an hour based on the vast time and effort they were putting in.
I was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness got kicked out of it for the second time when I was 23 years of age. Are used to believe the elders and the minister servants who are preaching from the stages. So glad to have my life back now even though it’s been tarnished by this religious cult 
This. I also grew up in an evangelical space and MLMs are everywhere
Yes, many MLM's specifically target church women.
I still have your piece cued up Paul.... you have good insight into this stuff.
Did anyone see the TV series "On becoming a god in Florida"
Kirsten Dunst was awesome.
It's all about just this kind of thing. But with Kirsten Dunst being awesome.
As my gran would say: Sometimes the best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your wallet!
I have not but Kirsten Dunst *is* awesome!