I read this with interest, and it gave me a wee epiphany. I’ve observed people in my community who don’t do anything to help their rabbit-holed mates. I probably notice because I’m guilty of that too: I had a friend who got into Qanonsense and I literally did everything I wasn’t supposed to do according to cited experts and ultimately I didn’t help a friend either. It doesn’t sit well with me, how these poor confused souls in our lives are left to spin out with the rest of the nuts. But after reading this, it occurs to me that maybe it’s because TOO HARD BASKET & also WHO HAS THE TIME? Trying to extricate someone entails multiple difficult exhausting and painful conversations. You’d have to really love someone so so deeply to take the time and emotional energy to pull someone out of this cult. You’d need the patience and kindness of a saint and the temperament of a professionally-trained therapist and on top of that you’d need bottomless tolerance and thick skin and TIME. 2020: who has reserves of any of that? And the twist is that even if you really care about and love someone, once they go down the rabbit-hole they become so much less likeable. Conspiracy theories changed my friend from a genuinely funny, sweet, fun person into an angry, paranoid asshole. So I was an asshole too and did all the things I wasn’t supposed to do: confronted him angrily about his comments; challenged his beliefs harshly/derisively; and then cut him out of my life. I really loved and cared about this person, but I wouldn’t do the recommended mahi and now I’m thinking (maybe rationalising my failure as a friend) that I COULDN'T do it. Your therapist mentioned grieving the loss of a relationship and I do get that. There's fury and frustration and exhaustion but gosh there's the grief. It's horrible. I have another shit-rant about the crying-with-laughter emoji I’d like to get off my chest but I’ve said too much for now. Thanks for creating this space.
As shown by those who are posting here about their felt experience with this, it's nigh impossible to be philosophical and calm when it's someone you care about going down the rabbit hole and impugning everything about you in the process. Shame and anger can spiral freely and we get swept away in the emotional tide and then are left full of regret (i.e. more shame) afterwards.
It's easy for me to make recommendations from a 'safe distance', but it's a whole other thing to be actually feeling it all in the thick of it. So I just want to acknowledge your grief and pain and your honesty.
Another great post David! Thank you. So glad that you have found a therapist helpful to you. Hes obviously very insightful and gives great advice. Its not easy to remember to not get totally frustrated and pissed and alienate conspirators! Its draining dealing with this shit so those of us fighting it need to support each other and stick together! Looking forward to part two.
Thanks, Linda. I kinda wish he was my therapist! (my one is good, too). He put a lot of work into this one, so I am glad it's resonating with people. My aim with Webworm is to get good people onboard who can continue to offer insight and enrich the stuff I write, too. A little Webworm family, if you will! x
It’s left me gobsmacked by how deeply this connected - I’ve lost one of my closest siblings down the rabbit hole this year and every Q/5G/Covid interaction leaves me feeling angry, upset and ashamed. I didn’t realise until Paul said it, but... it is grief. I’m grieving the loss of someone who is still standing in front of me.
I’m definitely no good at keeping my emotions out of these interactions, but I’m going to work at it. Thank you for your insights, Paul. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Hey Naomi. What Paul said. This is a lot. Losing a sibling must be such a strange thing. I can imagine losing a parent or grandparent to this stuff - but someone around your own age, who you have that link with - is particularly awful. I feel for you. And them.
Hi Naomi. I’m glad what I had to say helped a little. That sounds like a really painful situation - to be grieving the loss of a close sibling to conspiracism. And you’re right that it’s a really difficult form of grief, firstly because it goes unrecognised and secondly because you still see them and hope creeps in each time and then I imagine you grieve their loss all over again when it hasn’t changed. Be gentle with yourself - that’s quite something to be dealing with.
I talked to my therapist the morning of the election and she mentioned that I was her first patient that day who wasn't a demon supporter (I refuse to type the name. She did not call it that). And she was so relieved to talk to me. We never get personal like that but it felt right. She mentioned that one of her clients was spouting inaccuracies and when she corrected her (something she says she never does in her role), that the person said, "Really? I didn't know that." It's an interesting position for her to be in to listen to people and guide them but not flat-out correct them when they are wrong. And it's no surprise that the person was just spewing lies they'd heard without doing any research at all.
People are grasping onto their flags and signs as though their lives depend on it. A friend said a neighbor near her replaced his American flag with that imbecile's one AFTER election day. I can't say that I'm not nervous about it all or that I won't breathe properly until it's official that it has to leave the White House. There are moments of slack-jawed wuuuuuuut that I'm enjoying though. The dumpster fire's meltdown is going to be epic.
And concerning therapy in general, I'm a huge mental health advocate. I try to talk about my experiences publicly as much as I can to help destigmatize it, though I come from a family who is super uncomfortable with the idea of it. They're wonderful people but it's a very WASPy household. So I just plug away at it and stay proud of the fact that I am doing what I can for myself and others.
Fuck yes to all of this, Devon. I think speaking about it openly is so healthy, and helps people see that it is so, so normal and so healthy to seek out therapy. As to the honesty of your therapist - that's so refreshing! Maybe you acted as a lil' bit of therapy for them, too.
Thanks David! I love my therapist. She's one of two (of many) who I've really connected with. The other I had to leave because we moved out of state. And when we switched insurance a few years ago, my current therapist is out of network, so she uses a sliding scale for payment which is excellent. I don't want to leave her. We definitely like each other, but in a professional kind of way.
My advice to people looking for a therapist is make sure you connect with them. If you don't, it's not going to benefit you and you might end up thinking that therapy doesn't work.
Example, I have rage issues (whee bipolar!) and I had a therapist who I sort of liked but not really and one day she was late and for some reason, it got a bit heated, and she egged me on. She wanted to see the rage. Like was legitimately poking at it to really bring it out. Um, no, bye.
My other thing is that when I was younger, I weaved my stories to made them laugh which kept everything on the surface. My deflection skills were top notch and I wasted a lot of time entertaining them and not really diving in. I didn't want to tell them the deep, dark shit so I turned my sadness into humor. I'm still an expert at that but I try to keep it out of therapy.
"...force our shared existential concerns up into the forefront. So we are left to confront issues like mortality, isolation, freedom and meaning..."
even though it was a smaller part of the interview this quote really stuck out to me, i really thought it was just me and regular teen angst haha. witnessing the events of this year definitely made me ask a lot of existential questions to say the least. i'd really be interested in researching the mental health of those who lived during other historical events that were so grief stricken.
Hi Gracee. Living through traumatic events has some pretty profound effects on people and often it’s trans-generational i.e. the children of traumatised parents are often impacted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma The effect of surviving trauma is not always bad, therapists call this “post-traumatic growth”. And it’s not just you who is gripped by existential concerns, some of us are just more in touch with that, often due to our life history, but sometimes just as an individual difference. You might find Irvin Yalom’s book “Staring at the Sun” https://www.amazon.com/Staring-Sun-Overcoming-Terror-Death/dp/0470401818 helpful.
Thank you David. My father has been a conspiracy theorist for a long time. Anything from ban 1080 to Hillary is a reptile was his jam. But I still spoke to him and always tried to take the time to listen. This year he became a candidate for NZPP and the conversations became too much for me to put up with anymore. I stopped all communication with him a few months ago. After reading this I've felt a new more compassionate angle I can bring that will more than anything else hopefully allow me to maintain a relationship with my Dad whom I love and miss. Kia Ora
Good advice from your interviewee David. It is quite hard to avoid that initial visceral reaction to someone spouting these theories and imaginings, so just have to remember to take a breath and reconnect on a normal human level (so how about that weather lately huh?). Good on you also for seeing and taking steps to looking after your own mental health. While I haven't done it too often, when faced with some real issues I have sought the help of therapists or counsellors, and have always come away with a change of perspective and insight, which, even if only a slight change, makes all the difference to moving ahead.
Thanks Graham. I think the cost of therapy is OUTLANDISH here in New Zealand - and a real issue we have here. Getting free/discounted therapy is next to impossible. My point being - I feel very lucky, and know how privileged I am to be able to pay for some sessions. I think getting an outsider's take - a *wise* outsiders take - is invaluable.
David is absolutely right about the affordability issue
Many of the people in NZ who could benefit from therapy can't afford it and that's a real tragedy. NZ is one of the hardest places in the West to access psychotherapy and counseling within the heath system. That's not the case in Europe - it's part of the NHS in the UK and in Scandinavian countries. Even the US with it's arguably awful managed healthcare system allows people more access to psychotherapy than NZ does.
It's no accident that our depression, suicide and child abuse rates are so high here.
Like any health profession, training to be a psychotherapist is a lengthy and expensive process. We don't expect people to fully fund the cost of their doctors training and continuing professional development - as few could. Instead, we publicly fund and subsidise it.
There are signs of possible future improvement here - the 2019 Wellbeing budget - but it hasn't turned into anything real yet. Ideally, counseling and psychotherapy should be as easy to access and as affordable as other primary health care services - like seeing a doctor or a physiotherapist via ACC.
Quite keen to keep across this myself, Paul. I have never poked into or understood why there hasn't been a clear move to subsidise, especially with NZs bonkers suicide rate and depression. Professionals need to be paid - it's a heavy job - but if users could have hand in paying, that would be ideal, as you say!
Really enjoyed this, and your honesty about seeing a therapist! I see one every now and then and here in England there seems to be a stigma still, I’m a teacher and the head of my old school tried to decline mental health funding as he thought it was an ‘excuse’ for students to avoid doing work 😞
Conspiracy theories are both really interesting and horrific for my anxiety at the moment, I had a real fear moment in case the ‘new world order’ conspiracy was real, even though I know it’s not!
There is a stigma here, too. Partly why I wanted to raise it, I guess. I think the more its spoken about, the more the stigma will slip away. As for the head of your old school - they can get in the bin, immediately.
Hi Lauren. Yes, I’m always really appreciative of people who are willing to share the fact that they see a therapist. It seems like a small thing but it’s not. Anything that reduces stigma makes it that little bit easier for someone to reach out when they are struggling. So thanks for sharing yours too. In that vein, I’d like to note that my journey towards becoming a therapist started with my seeking therapy myself when I was feeling knocked around by life.
Thank you, and it’s great that you’ve taken that journey! Honestly, life knocking me about has totally changed my path, I was a tv and film reporter and now I’m taking a whole other career path but seeing a therapist and studying in a healthcare field (mental health occupational therapy) has actually made me really happy, I’m helping people while helping myself
Our school didn’t recognize mental health issues as a proper excuse for missing school. Our children are now doing cyber school and seem to be thriving
This makes me so sad that the recognition isn’t there! I worked after that at a school where students were incredibly vulnerable and couldn’t do cyber school but got all their mental health support in school, there seems to be no middle ground in the UK, I’ve actually left teaching to train in mental health because it kills me not being able to help effectively, the impact on my own mental health was too much!
My oldest daughter is in college now pursuing a degree in psychology specifically because of her friend’s experience with mental health and how it was “handled.” I hope you will be happy in your new path
David, have you viewed the Trump-supporting televangelist Kenneth Copeland's reaction over Biden's victory? Talk about weird. If I believed in angel and demons, to me, he appears as the devil himself. What a nutjob! And to see his followers blind faith in him...geez, so sad.
Thank you for this. Some of the advice in this post is exactly what I needed to hear today. I've been increasingly frustrated with a close family member recently and at a bit of a loss as to how to talk to them without getting heated. Now to put that into practice 🙂
"What about this weather?!” might do in a pinch, but possibly not for a climate denier." Great sense of humour and excellent content from Paul. Thanks both of you!
After a very heated exchange this weekend with a loved one, I can’t help but to wonder if religion helps lead people down the conspirator rabbit hole easier. In my experience people who are more devoutly religious tend to believe in especially the evil conspiracies.
One thing the therapist didn’t mention was how painful it can be to see a loved one be so afraid and so worried because of the conspiracies they’re lost inside. My elderly father in law gets so upset and wound up about conspiracies that I start to worry not only for his mental health but physical.
Fear is such a powerful emotion and it can be so easily manipulated. It makes me angry to see loved ones so fearful.
Religion is certainly tied in. In my observations, certainly conservative and evangelical Christianity. They are primed to see a spiritual war going on all around them - just behind the scenes of this world - so when Q came along and presented a similar narrative of epic battles, their minds were primed. It's really sad. It's all just selling a really good story. And good vs evil is the best story. Religion has spread based on this, as will this conspiracy stuff. From Alex Jones to David Icke, they all tell the same story.
Agree. Everyone I know who think 'conspiracy' are into a religion of some sort. Makes sense, really, because their faith is "based on spiritual conviction rather than proof". I have smart, educated friends who have fallen down the rabbit hole and I find this alarming.
hey david!! unrelated from my last comment but i'm doing a project for my ap language class where i have to basically follow a journalist and analyze their writing/rhetoric/point of view etc. i got approval to do my project on you so if you'd be willing to i'd love to email you to ask a few questions about your writing. thank you!
Of course - drop me a line. I am bit snowed under so if I don't reply - hit me up again a few days later. Happy you thought of me for your project! davidfarrier@protonmail.com
It's comforting to hear other people out there struggling with a relationship with someone who's embraced some conspiratorial thinking. I like the analogy of a conspiracy to a virus, and how the person's reaction is what does or doesn't cause damage.
This entry reminded me of a couple ideas (from articles linked below) that I'd encountered previously--I wonder how you relate them to the process of moving beyond conspiracies? One is about a former white nationalist kid who got various forms of public and more intimate negative feedback from his peers, finally leading him to reject white nationalism. Did his friend's input matter more, or was brute force shaming from the public also key in response to his going public with his views?
And the other relates to the process of curing or coping with addiction. Some view addiction as a disease, but I'm open to the idea that it's partly a social process, related to a person's connections to people? Maybe conspiracy theories are another thing that tie into that connection-centered framework of caring for people, where it is necessary to be connected to people who provide better informational inputs when they can?
Your thoughts on shame as a part of the dynamic are really interesting.
Hi Mark. You're spot on - I think these issues are absolutely linked.
As Abbie Richards wonderful conspiracy theories model shows so aptly, extremist hate groups are fundamentally and deeply conspiracist at their core. She is right that virulent anti-semitism and racism are like the black hole singularity of conspiracism where the deeper in you get, that's where you end up. And that's because it's all about 'othering' vulnerable groups, denying their humanity, and using them as a kind of psychological dumping ground for all the things you dislike about yourself. That process is what therapists call 'projection' and it's central to paranoia.
As for your question, based on my experience, I was imagine that it was the empathic connection with his Jewish friends that changed Derek's Black mind. Absent that, I don't think the public shaming would have registered. People you hate criticizing you generally validates your hatred rather than challenging it.
And you're right that I think shame and it's opposite, pride or connection, are central to both this and addiction. And yes, it's connection that cures hate, whether that is hate and disgust directed at others (e.g. racism) or the self-hatred and self-disgust (i.e. shame) that underlies addiction.
I have a lot more I could say about shame and how, from my perspective, it underlies the four most common mental heath concerns (depression, anxiety, addiction, and intimate partner violence) but this reply is probably too long already.
Thanks Paul, and I'm here for longer posts, but if not today, I'll be interested to hear more about how you see shame's role in those conditions another day.
A random question. I know WW is a newsletter by pedigree, but it would be lovely to hear you and Paul having convos like this. Love listening to you on A&D, wonder if a podcast add on for some conversations would be possible.
I read this with interest, and it gave me a wee epiphany. I’ve observed people in my community who don’t do anything to help their rabbit-holed mates. I probably notice because I’m guilty of that too: I had a friend who got into Qanonsense and I literally did everything I wasn’t supposed to do according to cited experts and ultimately I didn’t help a friend either. It doesn’t sit well with me, how these poor confused souls in our lives are left to spin out with the rest of the nuts. But after reading this, it occurs to me that maybe it’s because TOO HARD BASKET & also WHO HAS THE TIME? Trying to extricate someone entails multiple difficult exhausting and painful conversations. You’d have to really love someone so so deeply to take the time and emotional energy to pull someone out of this cult. You’d need the patience and kindness of a saint and the temperament of a professionally-trained therapist and on top of that you’d need bottomless tolerance and thick skin and TIME. 2020: who has reserves of any of that? And the twist is that even if you really care about and love someone, once they go down the rabbit-hole they become so much less likeable. Conspiracy theories changed my friend from a genuinely funny, sweet, fun person into an angry, paranoid asshole. So I was an asshole too and did all the things I wasn’t supposed to do: confronted him angrily about his comments; challenged his beliefs harshly/derisively; and then cut him out of my life. I really loved and cared about this person, but I wouldn’t do the recommended mahi and now I’m thinking (maybe rationalising my failure as a friend) that I COULDN'T do it. Your therapist mentioned grieving the loss of a relationship and I do get that. There's fury and frustration and exhaustion but gosh there's the grief. It's horrible. I have another shit-rant about the crying-with-laughter emoji I’d like to get off my chest but I’ve said too much for now. Thanks for creating this space.
Kia ora, Jess.
As shown by those who are posting here about their felt experience with this, it's nigh impossible to be philosophical and calm when it's someone you care about going down the rabbit hole and impugning everything about you in the process. Shame and anger can spiral freely and we get swept away in the emotional tide and then are left full of regret (i.e. more shame) afterwards.
It's easy for me to make recommendations from a 'safe distance', but it's a whole other thing to be actually feeling it all in the thick of it. So I just want to acknowledge your grief and pain and your honesty.
Nga mihi, Paul.
Another great post David! Thank you. So glad that you have found a therapist helpful to you. Hes obviously very insightful and gives great advice. Its not easy to remember to not get totally frustrated and pissed and alienate conspirators! Its draining dealing with this shit so those of us fighting it need to support each other and stick together! Looking forward to part two.
Thanks, Linda. I kinda wish he was my therapist! (my one is good, too). He put a lot of work into this one, so I am glad it's resonating with people. My aim with Webworm is to get good people onboard who can continue to offer insight and enrich the stuff I write, too. A little Webworm family, if you will! x
Aw shucks - I don't quite know what to say, aside from feeling like it's a real honour to be considered part of the Webworm family.
David, thank you again for sharing this.
It’s left me gobsmacked by how deeply this connected - I’ve lost one of my closest siblings down the rabbit hole this year and every Q/5G/Covid interaction leaves me feeling angry, upset and ashamed. I didn’t realise until Paul said it, but... it is grief. I’m grieving the loss of someone who is still standing in front of me.
I’m definitely no good at keeping my emotions out of these interactions, but I’m going to work at it. Thank you for your insights, Paul. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Hey Naomi. What Paul said. This is a lot. Losing a sibling must be such a strange thing. I can imagine losing a parent or grandparent to this stuff - but someone around your own age, who you have that link with - is particularly awful. I feel for you. And them.
Hi Naomi. I’m glad what I had to say helped a little. That sounds like a really painful situation - to be grieving the loss of a close sibling to conspiracism. And you’re right that it’s a really difficult form of grief, firstly because it goes unrecognised and secondly because you still see them and hope creeps in each time and then I imagine you grieve their loss all over again when it hasn’t changed. Be gentle with yourself - that’s quite something to be dealing with.
I talked to my therapist the morning of the election and she mentioned that I was her first patient that day who wasn't a demon supporter (I refuse to type the name. She did not call it that). And she was so relieved to talk to me. We never get personal like that but it felt right. She mentioned that one of her clients was spouting inaccuracies and when she corrected her (something she says she never does in her role), that the person said, "Really? I didn't know that." It's an interesting position for her to be in to listen to people and guide them but not flat-out correct them when they are wrong. And it's no surprise that the person was just spewing lies they'd heard without doing any research at all.
People are grasping onto their flags and signs as though their lives depend on it. A friend said a neighbor near her replaced his American flag with that imbecile's one AFTER election day. I can't say that I'm not nervous about it all or that I won't breathe properly until it's official that it has to leave the White House. There are moments of slack-jawed wuuuuuuut that I'm enjoying though. The dumpster fire's meltdown is going to be epic.
And concerning therapy in general, I'm a huge mental health advocate. I try to talk about my experiences publicly as much as I can to help destigmatize it, though I come from a family who is super uncomfortable with the idea of it. They're wonderful people but it's a very WASPy household. So I just plug away at it and stay proud of the fact that I am doing what I can for myself and others.
Fuck yes to all of this, Devon. I think speaking about it openly is so healthy, and helps people see that it is so, so normal and so healthy to seek out therapy. As to the honesty of your therapist - that's so refreshing! Maybe you acted as a lil' bit of therapy for them, too.
Thanks David! I love my therapist. She's one of two (of many) who I've really connected with. The other I had to leave because we moved out of state. And when we switched insurance a few years ago, my current therapist is out of network, so she uses a sliding scale for payment which is excellent. I don't want to leave her. We definitely like each other, but in a professional kind of way.
My advice to people looking for a therapist is make sure you connect with them. If you don't, it's not going to benefit you and you might end up thinking that therapy doesn't work.
Example, I have rage issues (whee bipolar!) and I had a therapist who I sort of liked but not really and one day she was late and for some reason, it got a bit heated, and she egged me on. She wanted to see the rage. Like was legitimately poking at it to really bring it out. Um, no, bye.
My other thing is that when I was younger, I weaved my stories to made them laugh which kept everything on the surface. My deflection skills were top notch and I wasted a lot of time entertaining them and not really diving in. I didn't want to tell them the deep, dark shit so I turned my sadness into humor. I'm still an expert at that but I try to keep it out of therapy.
"...force our shared existential concerns up into the forefront. So we are left to confront issues like mortality, isolation, freedom and meaning..."
even though it was a smaller part of the interview this quote really stuck out to me, i really thought it was just me and regular teen angst haha. witnessing the events of this year definitely made me ask a lot of existential questions to say the least. i'd really be interested in researching the mental health of those who lived during other historical events that were so grief stricken.
Hi Gracee. Living through traumatic events has some pretty profound effects on people and often it’s trans-generational i.e. the children of traumatised parents are often impacted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma The effect of surviving trauma is not always bad, therapists call this “post-traumatic growth”. And it’s not just you who is gripped by existential concerns, some of us are just more in touch with that, often due to our life history, but sometimes just as an individual difference. You might find Irvin Yalom’s book “Staring at the Sun” https://www.amazon.com/Staring-Sun-Overcoming-Terror-Death/dp/0470401818 helpful.
thank you for the reply, it's really cool to see you reach out!
I think we can all agree that Paul is one of the good ones!
Thank you David. My father has been a conspiracy theorist for a long time. Anything from ban 1080 to Hillary is a reptile was his jam. But I still spoke to him and always tried to take the time to listen. This year he became a candidate for NZPP and the conversations became too much for me to put up with anymore. I stopped all communication with him a few months ago. After reading this I've felt a new more compassionate angle I can bring that will more than anything else hopefully allow me to maintain a relationship with my Dad whom I love and miss. Kia Ora
Good advice from your interviewee David. It is quite hard to avoid that initial visceral reaction to someone spouting these theories and imaginings, so just have to remember to take a breath and reconnect on a normal human level (so how about that weather lately huh?). Good on you also for seeing and taking steps to looking after your own mental health. While I haven't done it too often, when faced with some real issues I have sought the help of therapists or counsellors, and have always come away with a change of perspective and insight, which, even if only a slight change, makes all the difference to moving ahead.
Thanks Graham. I think the cost of therapy is OUTLANDISH here in New Zealand - and a real issue we have here. Getting free/discounted therapy is next to impossible. My point being - I feel very lucky, and know how privileged I am to be able to pay for some sessions. I think getting an outsider's take - a *wise* outsiders take - is invaluable.
David is absolutely right about the affordability issue
Many of the people in NZ who could benefit from therapy can't afford it and that's a real tragedy. NZ is one of the hardest places in the West to access psychotherapy and counseling within the heath system. That's not the case in Europe - it's part of the NHS in the UK and in Scandinavian countries. Even the US with it's arguably awful managed healthcare system allows people more access to psychotherapy than NZ does.
It's no accident that our depression, suicide and child abuse rates are so high here.
Like any health profession, training to be a psychotherapist is a lengthy and expensive process. We don't expect people to fully fund the cost of their doctors training and continuing professional development - as few could. Instead, we publicly fund and subsidise it.
There are signs of possible future improvement here - the 2019 Wellbeing budget - but it hasn't turned into anything real yet. Ideally, counseling and psychotherapy should be as easy to access and as affordable as other primary health care services - like seeing a doctor or a physiotherapist via ACC.
Quite keen to keep across this myself, Paul. I have never poked into or understood why there hasn't been a clear move to subsidise, especially with NZs bonkers suicide rate and depression. Professionals need to be paid - it's a heavy job - but if users could have hand in paying, that would be ideal, as you say!
That would be great, David. Let's talk more about that when you're not so snowed under.
Really enjoyed this, and your honesty about seeing a therapist! I see one every now and then and here in England there seems to be a stigma still, I’m a teacher and the head of my old school tried to decline mental health funding as he thought it was an ‘excuse’ for students to avoid doing work 😞
Conspiracy theories are both really interesting and horrific for my anxiety at the moment, I had a real fear moment in case the ‘new world order’ conspiracy was real, even though I know it’s not!
Hope you’re keeping well 💖
There is a stigma here, too. Partly why I wanted to raise it, I guess. I think the more its spoken about, the more the stigma will slip away. As for the head of your old school - they can get in the bin, immediately.
Hi Lauren. Yes, I’m always really appreciative of people who are willing to share the fact that they see a therapist. It seems like a small thing but it’s not. Anything that reduces stigma makes it that little bit easier for someone to reach out when they are struggling. So thanks for sharing yours too. In that vein, I’d like to note that my journey towards becoming a therapist started with my seeking therapy myself when I was feeling knocked around by life.
Thank you, and it’s great that you’ve taken that journey! Honestly, life knocking me about has totally changed my path, I was a tv and film reporter and now I’m taking a whole other career path but seeing a therapist and studying in a healthcare field (mental health occupational therapy) has actually made me really happy, I’m helping people while helping myself
Our school didn’t recognize mental health issues as a proper excuse for missing school. Our children are now doing cyber school and seem to be thriving
This makes me so sad that the recognition isn’t there! I worked after that at a school where students were incredibly vulnerable and couldn’t do cyber school but got all their mental health support in school, there seems to be no middle ground in the UK, I’ve actually left teaching to train in mental health because it kills me not being able to help effectively, the impact on my own mental health was too much!
My oldest daughter is in college now pursuing a degree in psychology specifically because of her friend’s experience with mental health and how it was “handled.” I hope you will be happy in your new path
Kudos to your daughter. Amazing harnessing this negative event her friend had, for good. Amazing.
Thank you! I hope she is too and she does well, along with you and your students!
David, have you viewed the Trump-supporting televangelist Kenneth Copeland's reaction over Biden's victory? Talk about weird. If I believed in angel and demons, to me, he appears as the devil himself. What a nutjob! And to see his followers blind faith in him...geez, so sad.
He is a very delusional grifter. A disgusting excuse for a human. Yikes!
Thank you for this. Some of the advice in this post is exactly what I needed to hear today. I've been increasingly frustrated with a close family member recently and at a bit of a loss as to how to talk to them without getting heated. Now to put that into practice 🙂
"What about this weather?!” might do in a pinch, but possibly not for a climate denier." Great sense of humour and excellent content from Paul. Thanks both of you!
After a very heated exchange this weekend with a loved one, I can’t help but to wonder if religion helps lead people down the conspirator rabbit hole easier. In my experience people who are more devoutly religious tend to believe in especially the evil conspiracies.
One thing the therapist didn’t mention was how painful it can be to see a loved one be so afraid and so worried because of the conspiracies they’re lost inside. My elderly father in law gets so upset and wound up about conspiracies that I start to worry not only for his mental health but physical.
Fear is such a powerful emotion and it can be so easily manipulated. It makes me angry to see loved ones so fearful.
Religion is certainly tied in. In my observations, certainly conservative and evangelical Christianity. They are primed to see a spiritual war going on all around them - just behind the scenes of this world - so when Q came along and presented a similar narrative of epic battles, their minds were primed. It's really sad. It's all just selling a really good story. And good vs evil is the best story. Religion has spread based on this, as will this conspiracy stuff. From Alex Jones to David Icke, they all tell the same story.
Agree. Everyone I know who think 'conspiracy' are into a religion of some sort. Makes sense, really, because their faith is "based on spiritual conviction rather than proof". I have smart, educated friends who have fallen down the rabbit hole and I find this alarming.
I find a West Coast view the best therapy
hey david!! unrelated from my last comment but i'm doing a project for my ap language class where i have to basically follow a journalist and analyze their writing/rhetoric/point of view etc. i got approval to do my project on you so if you'd be willing to i'd love to email you to ask a few questions about your writing. thank you!
Of course - drop me a line. I am bit snowed under so if I don't reply - hit me up again a few days later. Happy you thought of me for your project! davidfarrier@protonmail.com
email has been sent :)
Hi everyone,
It's comforting to hear other people out there struggling with a relationship with someone who's embraced some conspiratorial thinking. I like the analogy of a conspiracy to a virus, and how the person's reaction is what does or doesn't cause damage.
This entry reminded me of a couple ideas (from articles linked below) that I'd encountered previously--I wonder how you relate them to the process of moving beyond conspiracies? One is about a former white nationalist kid who got various forms of public and more intimate negative feedback from his peers, finally leading him to reject white nationalism. Did his friend's input matter more, or was brute force shaming from the public also key in response to his going public with his views?
And the other relates to the process of curing or coping with addiction. Some view addiction as a disease, but I'm open to the idea that it's partly a social process, related to a person's connections to people? Maybe conspiracy theories are another thing that tie into that connection-centered framework of caring for people, where it is necessary to be connected to people who provide better informational inputs when they can?
Your thoughts on shame as a part of the dynamic are really interesting.
https://www.npr.org/2018/09/24/651052970/how-a-rising-star-of-white-nationalism-broke-free-from-the-movement
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201509/the-opposite-addiction-is-connection?amp
Hi Mark. You're spot on - I think these issues are absolutely linked.
As Abbie Richards wonderful conspiracy theories model shows so aptly, extremist hate groups are fundamentally and deeply conspiracist at their core. She is right that virulent anti-semitism and racism are like the black hole singularity of conspiracism where the deeper in you get, that's where you end up. And that's because it's all about 'othering' vulnerable groups, denying their humanity, and using them as a kind of psychological dumping ground for all the things you dislike about yourself. That process is what therapists call 'projection' and it's central to paranoia.
As for your question, based on my experience, I was imagine that it was the empathic connection with his Jewish friends that changed Derek's Black mind. Absent that, I don't think the public shaming would have registered. People you hate criticizing you generally validates your hatred rather than challenging it.
Your story about Derek Blake also reminded me of Daryl Davis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw as another example of how to help people leave hate groups.
And you're right that I think shame and it's opposite, pride or connection, are central to both this and addiction. And yes, it's connection that cures hate, whether that is hate and disgust directed at others (e.g. racism) or the self-hatred and self-disgust (i.e. shame) that underlies addiction.
Gabor Maté speaks really eloquently about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQYwOlx0HY
I have a lot more I could say about shame and how, from my perspective, it underlies the four most common mental heath concerns (depression, anxiety, addiction, and intimate partner violence) but this reply is probably too long already.
Thanks Paul, and I'm here for longer posts, but if not today, I'll be interested to hear more about how you see shame's role in those conditions another day.
A random question. I know WW is a newsletter by pedigree, but it would be lovely to hear you and Paul having convos like this. Love listening to you on A&D, wonder if a podcast add on for some conversations would be possible.