i'm gonna have to say Q because i feel like scientology is more calculated + intentional and they have so much money and power that it honestly doesn't entirely surprise me that they're able to recruit so many people if that makes sense? they have organized systemic efforts to draw people in and keep them there + not to mention being "technically" a religion. so while i think scientology is evil and exploitive i feel bad for people who get sucked in because they are often the most vulnerable and impressionable. and scientology makes calculated moves in order to prevent their members from leaving (denounce ur family, become financially dependent upon the church etc) hopefully that made sense
Q on the other hand... it's not an organized effort (as far as i know), it's just people being gullible and believing things like that! they have no tiered system, no gated communities for their members, no ways to control a persons entire life and mind. they just prey upon gullible people using false information alone. i articulated this to my friends by saying "it's so concerning to see older people sharing qanon shit considering they probably believe there is a hacker known as 4chan." to believe in Q you have to consciously not fact check things. it's not like scientology because technically if you believe in Q you CAN leave at any time! the only thing preventing them from leaving is their own ignorance and unwillingness to learn.
i'm super passionate about this subject because like i've told you i'm a teenager who frequents tiktok so i've seen a lot of these theories (mostly pizzagate) be spread with no regard for actual information. it's so disheartening to see people my age sharing those "secret codes" without taking the 2 minutes to google it and see that it originated from actual neo-nazis. that's why i think it's so embarrassing especially to see people buy into qanon. because they CHOOSE not to research and rely entirely on warped information!
Hey Gracee - good points here. The fact there is no central figurehead (well, Q, but I know what you mean) or structure is terrifying. Maybe this is how modern cults will operate now. Scientology, left behind...
wow gracee ... you have made me think today ... i owe you a boon! ... the gnosis of these groups is icky in the goo of our super-tribal existence ... all these crypto-criminal groups are actually justified in the great "war against the demiurge" ... the demi-urge can be described as a zero sum quantum kozmos &/or simulation/aliens theory &/or mimicry vs merit &/or roko's basilisk &/or the sets of religio-state-mafia-persona authorities as inescapable "archons" (see "military-medical-mining-media" psi-set)
I think I may go with scientology for having organised the most against excessive & abusive & veiled psychiatry ~um
What a great question for a Monday morning. I see this as "is it more embarrassing to piss or shit yourself in public", while both are incredibly embarrassing one defiantly effects more people with the smell it creates i.e. Scientology. The power structure behind Scientology is rather well organised to the point where they have a lot of "lobby" groups against various social structures and health services i.e. mental health services, which I tend to see as being very harmful. It would seem from how the power shifted inside the Scientology system after L. Ron died it was a group of folks "hyper normalising" their beliefs even though the truth had been shown to them about the whole being made up by a power hungry sci-fi author who had ripped off various eastern spiritualities and tried to pass them off as his own ideas.
QAnon on the other hand (after watch and reading it's rise on 4chan) seems to be a group that uses small bits of real world evidence (Jeffery Epstein's power base and his eventual death for example) and then extrapolate from there creating a world view based on that small evidence that anyone associated with the situation had to know what was going on and is defiantly involved, therefore going legitimacy to the larger "world control" hypothesis. The reason QAnon is like pissing yourself is it generally spreads faster and more people notice it quicker.
Just a quick thing after you mentioned in another comment wether there is any cross over amongst the conspiracies. After clicking possibly too many links on internet pages I discovered a link between Scientology, The Nation of Islam and various far right ethno-state groups. I found this link very interesting because of the foundation story one of the Nation of Islam's leaders put forward about Yakub the big head scientist, now that was a deep hole to delve into.
all our cults (& forums) are the glorious goo of semantics vs situation ... we suffer from amnesia induced by a supply chain hyper-gnosis to tulpafied vs conditioned command ... all IS connected ... how could they be non? #fightthepowercommaman #fightthelightswitch #lookintoit
My above comment is what "666"/"Hydra of Babylon" is about ... using any religious or philosophical terminology on public platforms may be banned in the next thirty years unless you get the appropriate CCP-UNESCO approved social credit app sticker ... #birdup #babiesonfire #itsatrap
I think you said it all in your original post ... we are just confirming "semantics vs situation" :) ... thank-you for the reply ... there is no explanation needed for "set & psi over lambda vs mu"‽ #imknotjoking #whoisjoeking #kronosatemysoul
The goo of cults is an ambient system where we crypto-normalise bizarre & privileged behavior sets into compartmentalized understandings so as to non freak out at every thing around us like a perpetually new-born baby ... (some babies are calm as though)
... "now is the only thing that's real" was said by Charles Manson who was the victim of ritualized deep state cult activities ... in fact Charles Manson is slyly part of the elite Walker/Watson/Wright triumvirate family system ... but the mainstream news will keep that to themselves until they can spin that factoid into a narrative that works for the DEEP STATE. #newwhirledorder #beholdmykuru #khazarianmafia #bloodmagiciseverywhere #freemasonryisaclue #continuationofgovernment #whosinthebunker
Here is an excerpt from a word salad I wrote earlier ...
**begin copy**
Every cultural/ethno/identity group is practicing various forms of blood magic. There are 3 big groups practicing a veiled privileged blood magic today:
* Scholars of Mystery - ancient Greek/Egypt/Iraq/Sino/Thule paradigm (Levantine land-bridge to silk road Tartaria/Mongol-Indo-Zuul/Macronesia/Queen Mu). See veiled telepathic albino troglodytic/sub-sea parabiological entities that survive cataclysm cycles (Caucasoidal/Ural/Carpathian/Himalayan/Andes/Appalachians &c). As I have heard from hell = Real Vs fake Hebrew/Yudens w' slave/persecution magic narratives that the Khazarian Mafia is somehow utilising to trojan horse us into some possible & probable 2240AD ritual war "Crypto-Israel Vs Crypto-China" (Vs Fake Aliens as test to weed out the resistance to real Aliens?)
* Global trope of "elite"/"Black Nobility" & Scholars of the black box/saturn/kronos - extortion vs cannibalism vs debt vs pederasty vs psilocybin theory to intelligence in divide & conquer "Fabian strategy" psi dynamics
* The global form of the cone hat/head ... is called the Jira/Mitra which is the ancient "Druid Vs Wizard" oligarchical priestly form to mass population control by animal magnetism fear/guilt/shame/threat via human sacrifice & all proxy forms of human sacrifice ... divide & conquer dynamic ... Is the Anunnaki this form? ... where coming down from heaven is the DMT realm / as above so below "Aliens"? 'M' Vs 'J' Vs 'K' (cone hat vs cube hat?)
... of course all this is mixed up because that is how real life is ... hail logos!
Oh the ten million words that describes the ten thousand things :)
The tower of Babel is very real ... so Google as war against demi-urge by an all privileged crypto-crime-class-chess-cull-methods is Ok now?
Our techno-gnostic war is hard to face with honour?
Probably QAnon. Its more dangerous at this current moment because as wild as Scientology is, it presents itself as a money laundering scheme for Mission Impossible movies which I generally enjoy.
QAnon are currently leaning into the worst aspects of paranoia, enabling people to promote fear and anger. Pretty fucked up given how impressionable the South are - heck they still believe in their southern strategy and are likely petitioning for Night ag the Museum 4 where Robert E Lee’s statue comes back to life and leads some revolution in a cornfield.
Aside from being a cult, Scientology just really wants you to be in awe of Xenu’s galactic sized dick.
... i am internally winning today by non being triggered by all these mentions of *you know who's* member ... #coneofpindar #khazarianmafia #lookintoit
I guess I'd rather marry a scientologist – at least scientology is "fun" (aliens, volcanoes, general sci-fi wackiness) whereas QAnon doesn't even have the entertainingly goofy aspects of LRH's absurd religion. Q is just depressing to me. As someone else commented (and I completely agree with this): QAnon is more dangerous since it's supported by a world leader and is therefore tragically relevant. I find most religions to have some level of cringe to them, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt on occasion since they have the ability to inform people's actions for the better. By contrast, QAnon has no redeemable value and just occurs to me as a bleak symbol of America's worst, most impenetrable idiots. Keep up the awesome work, David, and thanks for this thread!
As an American, I'm certain that no one who is an active Scientologist could ever be elected into political office, that is clearly not the case with QAnon, so on that basis alone, I consider QAnon to be more dangerous. Scientology, much like a vampire, can only ruin your life if you allow it in. At this point, there have been more than enough documentaries, books and television shows showing the dangers of joining Scientology that I can only feel bad for the children who get sucked in when their parents end up joining. You've been warned more than enough times that emperor not only has no clothes but he will drain you financially and when he can't get any more money out of you, he will conscript you into eternal servitude. QAnon is actively dangerous because it is being spouted off as fact by the Cheeto in Chief and therefore, has to show up on the nightly news and even with journalists who do their due diligence and attempt to explain that QAnon is a baseless conspiracy theory, that does nothing to sway his followers who, of course, believe that the media is part of it. Critical thinking is not widely taught in The US, in big part because the Religious Right can't stand it and there is no fighting them. That there is a big overlap between Evangelicals (who I can easily blame for at least 85% of America's problems) and QAnon believers is no accident, as long as you are painting the Left as corrupt, they will believe anything you throw at them. My only consolation is that QAnon will now have to deal with the Beyhive and no way are they prepared for that.
Bentia, I really appreciate your sanity. Thank god the Beyhive will be activated and doing its thing. Small blessings.
I agree that evangelical Christianity has a lot to answer for, and it's no co-incidence that most QAnon followers are very, very fundamentalist Christian. Logic is entirely out the window, and they are already pitted against the left over things like LGBTQI rights, freedom of choice etc.
I feel also (and I may be wrong) that Scientology is not growing. Certainly not internationally - it's flopped in NZ to the point where they had to bring a bunch of Australians over to run their ridiculous church.
This is probably not too relevant in the grand scheme of things, but are you aware that the leader Miscavige’s (alleged) current partner is a Kiwi? Her name is Laurisse Henley-Smith, and the story is that after his wife Shelly ‘disappeared’, he took up with Laurisse.
To really boil it down, is it more embarrassing to follow cults on baseless human conspiracies or baseless supernatural mythology? On one had, a human conspiracy is *physically possible* under our current understanding of the laws of reality, while a supernatural cult requires belief in aliens and cosmic forces *in addition to* a human conspiracy, so on the face of it, QAnon is more plausible. However, my gut reaction is that QAnon is more embarrassing, which is very odd to say given the bizarre conviction of Scientology. I suppose the reason is, when you enter the world of religion (or pseudo-religion), supernatural forces are an established feature, so it's absurdity is partly camouflaged. A common defense of Scientology is to point out the illogical belief systems of other religions. So the fact that a large percentage of the population believes in some form of religion makes it more palatable (which is why it is so INSIDIOUS). QAnon, Flat-Earthers, and other conspiracy theory groups have no such escape hatch.
Like I said, this is just my gut reaction, and I may even change my mind after some reflection. In the meantime, check out this incredible piece on how conspiracy theories can debunked using machine learning to analyze their structure. Fascinating stuff!
For what it's, I'd happily support any creative measure you took to go more into the weeds about conspiracy theories. The behavioural psychology behind what people believe in (crazy or otherwise) is so fascinating.
Kyle - thanks for weighing in. I do wonder how old school whacky stuff like Scientology will be coping with all the other whacky stuff people prone to cults are getting involved in.
I wonder if there's crossover?
Thanks for the link - and yeah, I've been (obviously!) thinking a lot about conspiracy theory culture lately - and have been pondering the best creative ways to get stuck into this very particular & very strange part of history. Not that conspiracy theories are new - they're just operating in increasingly interesting and alarming ways. And we see it so clearly, because online etc.
I'm not a religious person. However, I've always felt that they (i.e. every religion) has cracked the code on how to make something more believable. You can't prove a god doesn't exist, for example. So maybe Scientology will be fine? One could argue their beliefs are a bit odd, but you can't necessarily always prove they're 100% untrue.
QAnon (and other conspiracy theory cults) on the other hand make some 'rookie' mistakes. Beyonce, for example, will have a birth certificate. Just like Obama did. And it's so much easier to prove that some of the nonsense spouted about them is untrue.
As for how to approach conspiracy theories, you're right that they're not new. But everyone gets stuck within the old approach of presenting them.
+ Brief overview of conspiracy
+ Highly selective evidence of why conspiracy is true
+ Interview with one person who was definitely there/experienced it
+ More highly selective evidence of why conspiracy is true
+ End credits
In the words of Simon Sinek, "what's their why?" I'd love to know why it is that people start these conspiracy theories and why some people are more prone to believing in them than others. "The internet" can't be the sole reason, right? It must just make them more prominent?
And they don't always have to be insidious cults, too. I'd love to know why some Icelandic people believe in little elves. Ha. And yes, I may have watched a certain Netflix movie last night...
I'd rather marry a Scientologist. I'm an atheist and I don't care what fairy tale people believe in. To me, Xenu isn't any weirder than the Holy Trinity.
QAnon is far more dangerous, like how they reinterpret and fabricate facts on the go.
I generally struggle to understand how people who have all the knowledge in the world in their pocket choose to go back to stone age believes, may this be creationism/religion, flat earth, 5G, QAnon.
I guess at least with a Scientologist, you sort of know where their head is at. With Q, it's a constantly shifting mountain of fucking (often dangerous) nonsense.
"elites are religiously protected criminals who ritualistically tap into their r-complex (functional paranoia/adrenaline telepathic & social domination networks & internetworks) ... Jordan Peterson is a tertiary level professor who got abused in our social media era ... in the psi-sets of the deep 6 of the deep state the inherent betrayal of two means all chosen ones get eaten by the next chosen ones ... the zeitgeist zaps all heroes ... archetype of anti-christ is just the next christ &c ... semantical displacement tropes of gilgamesh & noah & odin & malchizedik & merfolk & yeast gods &c to keep cresting the mu " ~ um
Scientology's ability to catch and manipulate people has been fine tuned for a couple generations, Qanon believers just needed someone to create an elaborate fiction to make their racism okay. It's the difference between being killed by a tiger and being killed peeing on a transformer.
David, I think it's actually quite an easy answer; Q Anon is far more embarrassing. Simply put all religions have some sort of allegorical stories that most people don't actually believe to be true (i.e. Adam & Eve) so Scientology is no exception. I would also say that Scientologists tend to try not to harm others with their beliefs whereas Q Anon doesn't seem to give a shit what damage they are doing. I think Scientology is odd sure, but I'm much more willing to let people do whatever they want privately if they don't try force their bullshit beliefs on others
fundamentally individualistic world view is definitely a predisposing factor to getting sucked in by Qanon. throw in christianity. having read jordan peterson and having the privilege of growing up blind to the existence of oppression of any form. i know people like this and you cant discuss social issues because they keep bringing it back to the individual and moral choices. so the health response act was about taking away people's individual rights. blind to what society needs because society is just a collection of individuals and if everyone made the right choices blah blah. so they need an individual evil figure like bill gates to focus their fear on. they fear the UN too but only because bill owns it! i have to stop getting into conversations with the ones i know because it is doing my head in.
Bill Gates (what's in a name?) is accused by many to being a privileged insider trading mobster (see his 70's-80's behavior against the computer culture & 'PC DOS'/'Digital Research' to his late 90's anti-trust transcripts) ... I can love & forgive anyone ... but non when they are smiling & unqualifiedingly brandishing needles on state TV‽
another +1 for QAnon. many others have added the reasons I agree with below, but boils down to immediate-danger-rating for me, and QAnon ranks higher in that (at the moment)
I think QAnon is more embarrasing purely because Scientology seems about as far fetched as other religions when you get down to it and people spend their lives and all their money in those too. But to blame real problems on real people existing every day and believe that everything comes from a ring of pedophiles running the earth is a genuinely harmful way of thinking, and because many of these people are in positions of power (including the president of the United States 🤮) these messages can lead to a much larger portion of people believing in a dangerous conspiracy theory than those who believe in an (equally nutty) religion. Furthermore, these messages coming from people like Tr*mp can and does give people who believe in QAnon a justification for doing so and for doing things like trying to shoot up pizza places. All in all I think because it's publicly coming from such figures that a huge portion of the country takes their every word as gospel, it's more dangerous to a larger number of people.
There is a law that floats around the fringes of officialdom called "lateral evidence" ... where rumour & even fiction can be utilized in a courtroom setting or legally binding psi-chain set ...
If you know a thing you know a thing ... to comment on the thing is to be somehow reacting to the thing & gives a tulpafied reality to the thing that must be equalized somehow eventually ...
This is the root of gnosis/religion/philosophy/telepathy ... the high functioning paranoids who rule us is what we are discussing here ... er I am just realizing i may be a latent Q follower ... FREEEEDDDDOOOOMMM!!! #endtransmissionclick
The base line is that most people find Scientology a bit of a laugh, you watch the doco’s, snicker at the ideology, download Battlefield earth and the truely wonder if Tom Cruise does send every Scientologist a Christmas card. QAnon, unfortunately is in the heady infancy stage where people who desperately want to link conspiracy theory’s together, meet and get high off each other’s sweat as they rapidly tap their keyboards. QAnon is available to everyone, one misstep on YouTube and there is your algorithm gone! Scientology was never for everyone, and they didn’t want just anyone either.
I agree with all that - I do worry sometimes I don't take Scientology seriously enough, just in that my default is to laugh and make light of it, which sort of ignores all the stories of horrible, horrible abuse that have allegedly gone on in there. Truly awful stuff, eh.
Laughter has been programmed into the equation as a nullifying response pattern by our psi-lords David ... conditioned & quantumly induced giggling is all part of the plan ...
... see audience reaction on a certain talk show discussing injecting harvested baby skin into her face!
'battlefield earth' has a very powerful message ... the excessive dramatics of performance & camera angles allows more truth to filtre through as we "bounce off the sharia".
oof okay this one is difficult bear with me
i'm gonna have to say Q because i feel like scientology is more calculated + intentional and they have so much money and power that it honestly doesn't entirely surprise me that they're able to recruit so many people if that makes sense? they have organized systemic efforts to draw people in and keep them there + not to mention being "technically" a religion. so while i think scientology is evil and exploitive i feel bad for people who get sucked in because they are often the most vulnerable and impressionable. and scientology makes calculated moves in order to prevent their members from leaving (denounce ur family, become financially dependent upon the church etc) hopefully that made sense
Q on the other hand... it's not an organized effort (as far as i know), it's just people being gullible and believing things like that! they have no tiered system, no gated communities for their members, no ways to control a persons entire life and mind. they just prey upon gullible people using false information alone. i articulated this to my friends by saying "it's so concerning to see older people sharing qanon shit considering they probably believe there is a hacker known as 4chan." to believe in Q you have to consciously not fact check things. it's not like scientology because technically if you believe in Q you CAN leave at any time! the only thing preventing them from leaving is their own ignorance and unwillingness to learn.
i'm super passionate about this subject because like i've told you i'm a teenager who frequents tiktok so i've seen a lot of these theories (mostly pizzagate) be spread with no regard for actual information. it's so disheartening to see people my age sharing those "secret codes" without taking the 2 minutes to google it and see that it originated from actual neo-nazis. that's why i think it's so embarrassing especially to see people buy into qanon. because they CHOOSE not to research and rely entirely on warped information!
anyways hopefully that was coherent at all !!!
Hey Gracee - good points here. The fact there is no central figurehead (well, Q, but I know what you mean) or structure is terrifying. Maybe this is how modern cults will operate now. Scientology, left behind...
You completely convinced me!!
wow gracee ... you have made me think today ... i owe you a boon! ... the gnosis of these groups is icky in the goo of our super-tribal existence ... all these crypto-criminal groups are actually justified in the great "war against the demiurge" ... the demi-urge can be described as a zero sum quantum kozmos &/or simulation/aliens theory &/or mimicry vs merit &/or roko's basilisk &/or the sets of religio-state-mafia-persona authorities as inescapable "archons" (see "military-medical-mining-media" psi-set)
I think I may go with scientology for having organised the most against excessive & abusive & veiled psychiatry ~um
What a great question for a Monday morning. I see this as "is it more embarrassing to piss or shit yourself in public", while both are incredibly embarrassing one defiantly effects more people with the smell it creates i.e. Scientology. The power structure behind Scientology is rather well organised to the point where they have a lot of "lobby" groups against various social structures and health services i.e. mental health services, which I tend to see as being very harmful. It would seem from how the power shifted inside the Scientology system after L. Ron died it was a group of folks "hyper normalising" their beliefs even though the truth had been shown to them about the whole being made up by a power hungry sci-fi author who had ripped off various eastern spiritualities and tried to pass them off as his own ideas.
QAnon on the other hand (after watch and reading it's rise on 4chan) seems to be a group that uses small bits of real world evidence (Jeffery Epstein's power base and his eventual death for example) and then extrapolate from there creating a world view based on that small evidence that anyone associated with the situation had to know what was going on and is defiantly involved, therefore going legitimacy to the larger "world control" hypothesis. The reason QAnon is like pissing yourself is it generally spreads faster and more people notice it quicker.
Just a quick thing after you mentioned in another comment wether there is any cross over amongst the conspiracies. After clicking possibly too many links on internet pages I discovered a link between Scientology, The Nation of Islam and various far right ethno-state groups. I found this link very interesting because of the foundation story one of the Nation of Islam's leaders put forward about Yakub the big head scientist, now that was a deep hole to delve into.
A+ for this analogy. Using it.
I must say I don't think I have laughed this much in a wee while, most excellent.
The piss and shit analogy has me rolling.
What Ryan said!
all our cults (& forums) are the glorious goo of semantics vs situation ... we suffer from amnesia induced by a supply chain hyper-gnosis to tulpafied vs conditioned command ... all IS connected ... how could they be non? #fightthepowercommaman #fightthelightswitch #lookintoit
My above comment is what "666"/"Hydra of Babylon" is about ... using any religious or philosophical terminology on public platforms may be banned in the next thirty years unless you get the appropriate CCP-UNESCO approved social credit app sticker ... #birdup #babiesonfire #itsatrap
Excuse my ignorance but you may need to explain your point a bit better for me to understand
"Everyone who locks their door at night is in a cult" ~um
I think you said it all in your original post ... we are just confirming "semantics vs situation" :) ... thank-you for the reply ... there is no explanation needed for "set & psi over lambda vs mu"‽ #imknotjoking #whoisjoeking #kronosatemysoul
The goo of cults is an ambient system where we crypto-normalise bizarre & privileged behavior sets into compartmentalized understandings so as to non freak out at every thing around us like a perpetually new-born baby ... (some babies are calm as though)
... "now is the only thing that's real" was said by Charles Manson who was the victim of ritualized deep state cult activities ... in fact Charles Manson is slyly part of the elite Walker/Watson/Wright triumvirate family system ... but the mainstream news will keep that to themselves until they can spin that factoid into a narrative that works for the DEEP STATE. #newwhirledorder #beholdmykuru #khazarianmafia #bloodmagiciseverywhere #freemasonryisaclue #continuationofgovernment #whosinthebunker
Here is an excerpt from a word salad I wrote earlier ...
**begin copy**
Every cultural/ethno/identity group is practicing various forms of blood magic. There are 3 big groups practicing a veiled privileged blood magic today:
* Scholars of Mystery - ancient Greek/Egypt/Iraq/Sino/Thule paradigm (Levantine land-bridge to silk road Tartaria/Mongol-Indo-Zuul/Macronesia/Queen Mu). See veiled telepathic albino troglodytic/sub-sea parabiological entities that survive cataclysm cycles (Caucasoidal/Ural/Carpathian/Himalayan/Andes/Appalachians &c). As I have heard from hell = Real Vs fake Hebrew/Yudens w' slave/persecution magic narratives that the Khazarian Mafia is somehow utilising to trojan horse us into some possible & probable 2240AD ritual war "Crypto-Israel Vs Crypto-China" (Vs Fake Aliens as test to weed out the resistance to real Aliens?)
* Global trope of "elite"/"Black Nobility" & Scholars of the black box/saturn/kronos - extortion vs cannibalism vs debt vs pederasty vs psilocybin theory to intelligence in divide & conquer "Fabian strategy" psi dynamics
* The global form of the cone hat/head ... is called the Jira/Mitra which is the ancient "Druid Vs Wizard" oligarchical priestly form to mass population control by animal magnetism fear/guilt/shame/threat via human sacrifice & all proxy forms of human sacrifice ... divide & conquer dynamic ... Is the Anunnaki this form? ... where coming down from heaven is the DMT realm / as above so below "Aliens"? 'M' Vs 'J' Vs 'K' (cone hat vs cube hat?)
... of course all this is mixed up because that is how real life is ... hail logos!
Oh the ten million words that describes the ten thousand things :)
The tower of Babel is very real ... so Google as war against demi-urge by an all privileged crypto-crime-class-chess-cull-methods is Ok now?
Our techno-gnostic war is hard to face with honour?
**end copy**
Probably QAnon. Its more dangerous at this current moment because as wild as Scientology is, it presents itself as a money laundering scheme for Mission Impossible movies which I generally enjoy.
QAnon are currently leaning into the worst aspects of paranoia, enabling people to promote fear and anger. Pretty fucked up given how impressionable the South are - heck they still believe in their southern strategy and are likely petitioning for Night ag the Museum 4 where Robert E Lee’s statue comes back to life and leads some revolution in a cornfield.
Aside from being a cult, Scientology just really wants you to be in awe of Xenu’s galactic sized dick.
D e a d. Thanks for this.
... i am internally winning today by non being triggered by all these mentions of *you know who's* member ... #coneofpindar #khazarianmafia #lookintoit
I guess I'd rather marry a scientologist – at least scientology is "fun" (aliens, volcanoes, general sci-fi wackiness) whereas QAnon doesn't even have the entertainingly goofy aspects of LRH's absurd religion. Q is just depressing to me. As someone else commented (and I completely agree with this): QAnon is more dangerous since it's supported by a world leader and is therefore tragically relevant. I find most religions to have some level of cringe to them, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt on occasion since they have the ability to inform people's actions for the better. By contrast, QAnon has no redeemable value and just occurs to me as a bleak symbol of America's worst, most impenetrable idiots. Keep up the awesome work, David, and thanks for this thread!
All good, Jim. I appreciate your support -- and agree with most of your points. Q is depressing. As. Fuck.
As an American, I'm certain that no one who is an active Scientologist could ever be elected into political office, that is clearly not the case with QAnon, so on that basis alone, I consider QAnon to be more dangerous. Scientology, much like a vampire, can only ruin your life if you allow it in. At this point, there have been more than enough documentaries, books and television shows showing the dangers of joining Scientology that I can only feel bad for the children who get sucked in when their parents end up joining. You've been warned more than enough times that emperor not only has no clothes but he will drain you financially and when he can't get any more money out of you, he will conscript you into eternal servitude. QAnon is actively dangerous because it is being spouted off as fact by the Cheeto in Chief and therefore, has to show up on the nightly news and even with journalists who do their due diligence and attempt to explain that QAnon is a baseless conspiracy theory, that does nothing to sway his followers who, of course, believe that the media is part of it. Critical thinking is not widely taught in The US, in big part because the Religious Right can't stand it and there is no fighting them. That there is a big overlap between Evangelicals (who I can easily blame for at least 85% of America's problems) and QAnon believers is no accident, as long as you are painting the Left as corrupt, they will believe anything you throw at them. My only consolation is that QAnon will now have to deal with the Beyhive and no way are they prepared for that.
Bentia, I really appreciate your sanity. Thank god the Beyhive will be activated and doing its thing. Small blessings.
I agree that evangelical Christianity has a lot to answer for, and it's no co-incidence that most QAnon followers are very, very fundamentalist Christian. Logic is entirely out the window, and they are already pitted against the left over things like LGBTQI rights, freedom of choice etc.
I feel also (and I may be wrong) that Scientology is not growing. Certainly not internationally - it's flopped in NZ to the point where they had to bring a bunch of Australians over to run their ridiculous church.
This is probably not too relevant in the grand scheme of things, but are you aware that the leader Miscavige’s (alleged) current partner is a Kiwi? Her name is Laurisse Henley-Smith, and the story is that after his wife Shelly ‘disappeared’, he took up with Laurisse.
I had no idea. Noted — great tip
To really boil it down, is it more embarrassing to follow cults on baseless human conspiracies or baseless supernatural mythology? On one had, a human conspiracy is *physically possible* under our current understanding of the laws of reality, while a supernatural cult requires belief in aliens and cosmic forces *in addition to* a human conspiracy, so on the face of it, QAnon is more plausible. However, my gut reaction is that QAnon is more embarrassing, which is very odd to say given the bizarre conviction of Scientology. I suppose the reason is, when you enter the world of religion (or pseudo-religion), supernatural forces are an established feature, so it's absurdity is partly camouflaged. A common defense of Scientology is to point out the illogical belief systems of other religions. So the fact that a large percentage of the population believes in some form of religion makes it more palatable (which is why it is so INSIDIOUS). QAnon, Flat-Earthers, and other conspiracy theory groups have no such escape hatch.
Like I said, this is just my gut reaction, and I may even change my mind after some reflection. In the meantime, check out this incredible piece on how conspiracy theories can debunked using machine learning to analyze their structure. Fascinating stuff!
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/how-conspiracy-theories-emerge-and-fall-apart
+1 for QAnon.
On a side note, this was a really interesting podcast on conspiracy theories from FiveThirtyEight: https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/the-politics-of-covid-19-conspiracy-theories/.
For what it's, I'd happily support any creative measure you took to go more into the weeds about conspiracy theories. The behavioural psychology behind what people believe in (crazy or otherwise) is so fascinating.
For what it's worth*
Kyle - thanks for weighing in. I do wonder how old school whacky stuff like Scientology will be coping with all the other whacky stuff people prone to cults are getting involved in.
I wonder if there's crossover?
Thanks for the link - and yeah, I've been (obviously!) thinking a lot about conspiracy theory culture lately - and have been pondering the best creative ways to get stuck into this very particular & very strange part of history. Not that conspiracy theories are new - they're just operating in increasingly interesting and alarming ways. And we see it so clearly, because online etc.
I'm not a religious person. However, I've always felt that they (i.e. every religion) has cracked the code on how to make something more believable. You can't prove a god doesn't exist, for example. So maybe Scientology will be fine? One could argue their beliefs are a bit odd, but you can't necessarily always prove they're 100% untrue.
QAnon (and other conspiracy theory cults) on the other hand make some 'rookie' mistakes. Beyonce, for example, will have a birth certificate. Just like Obama did. And it's so much easier to prove that some of the nonsense spouted about them is untrue.
As for how to approach conspiracy theories, you're right that they're not new. But everyone gets stuck within the old approach of presenting them.
+ Brief overview of conspiracy
+ Highly selective evidence of why conspiracy is true
+ Interview with one person who was definitely there/experienced it
+ More highly selective evidence of why conspiracy is true
+ End credits
In the words of Simon Sinek, "what's their why?" I'd love to know why it is that people start these conspiracy theories and why some people are more prone to believing in them than others. "The internet" can't be the sole reason, right? It must just make them more prominent?
And they don't always have to be insidious cults, too. I'd love to know why some Icelandic people believe in little elves. Ha. And yes, I may have watched a certain Netflix movie last night...
That's a tough one, David...
I'd rather marry a Scientologist. I'm an atheist and I don't care what fairy tale people believe in. To me, Xenu isn't any weirder than the Holy Trinity.
QAnon is far more dangerous, like how they reinterpret and fabricate facts on the go.
I generally struggle to understand how people who have all the knowledge in the world in their pocket choose to go back to stone age believes, may this be creationism/religion, flat earth, 5G, QAnon.
I guess at least with a Scientologist, you sort of know where their head is at. With Q, it's a constantly shifting mountain of fucking (often dangerous) nonsense.
Scientology is a valiant attempt to expose our fairy tales as hard cold fact. Is abuse inherent with religious forms?
100% Q Anon. Worst fan fiction EVER. Scientology has rules and parameters. I can forgive a Scientologist.
You are right about the parameters. Q shifts so quickly and makes so little internal sense it's maddening, eh.
Q is a mirror of the internet's soul since it escaped from direct message & research only mode?
"Web 3.0 will be a virus"
and where does Jordan Peterson fit into this? is he a reptile? or an elite? hes pretty embarrassing.
He's... a giant mess of a man.
"elites are religiously protected criminals who ritualistically tap into their r-complex (functional paranoia/adrenaline telepathic & social domination networks & internetworks) ... Jordan Peterson is a tertiary level professor who got abused in our social media era ... in the psi-sets of the deep 6 of the deep state the inherent betrayal of two means all chosen ones get eaten by the next chosen ones ... the zeitgeist zaps all heroes ... archetype of anti-christ is just the next christ &c ... semantical displacement tropes of gilgamesh & noah & odin & malchizedik & merfolk & yeast gods &c to keep cresting the mu " ~ um
Scientology's ability to catch and manipulate people has been fine tuned for a couple generations, Qanon believers just needed someone to create an elaborate fiction to make their racism okay. It's the difference between being killed by a tiger and being killed peeing on a transformer.
David, I think it's actually quite an easy answer; Q Anon is far more embarrassing. Simply put all religions have some sort of allegorical stories that most people don't actually believe to be true (i.e. Adam & Eve) so Scientology is no exception. I would also say that Scientologists tend to try not to harm others with their beliefs whereas Q Anon doesn't seem to give a shit what damage they are doing. I think Scientology is odd sure, but I'm much more willing to let people do whatever they want privately if they don't try force their bullshit beliefs on others
good point ... gated gnosis vs public goo?
fundamentally individualistic world view is definitely a predisposing factor to getting sucked in by Qanon. throw in christianity. having read jordan peterson and having the privilege of growing up blind to the existence of oppression of any form. i know people like this and you cant discuss social issues because they keep bringing it back to the individual and moral choices. so the health response act was about taking away people's individual rights. blind to what society needs because society is just a collection of individuals and if everyone made the right choices blah blah. so they need an individual evil figure like bill gates to focus their fear on. they fear the UN too but only because bill owns it! i have to stop getting into conversations with the ones i know because it is doing my head in.
You seem to be staying fairly level headed, so keep doing what you are doing!
Bill Gates (what's in a name?) is accused by many to being a privileged insider trading mobster (see his 70's-80's behavior against the computer culture & 'PC DOS'/'Digital Research' to his late 90's anti-trust transcripts) ... I can love & forgive anyone ... but non when they are smiling & unqualifiedingly brandishing needles on state TV‽
another +1 for QAnon. many others have added the reasons I agree with below, but boils down to immediate-danger-rating for me, and QAnon ranks higher in that (at the moment)
I think QAnon is more embarrasing purely because Scientology seems about as far fetched as other religions when you get down to it and people spend their lives and all their money in those too. But to blame real problems on real people existing every day and believe that everything comes from a ring of pedophiles running the earth is a genuinely harmful way of thinking, and because many of these people are in positions of power (including the president of the United States 🤮) these messages can lead to a much larger portion of people believing in a dangerous conspiracy theory than those who believe in an (equally nutty) religion. Furthermore, these messages coming from people like Tr*mp can and does give people who believe in QAnon a justification for doing so and for doing things like trying to shoot up pizza places. All in all I think because it's publicly coming from such figures that a huge portion of the country takes their every word as gospel, it's more dangerous to a larger number of people.
Oh yeah, and both are fucking insane
There is a law that floats around the fringes of officialdom called "lateral evidence" ... where rumour & even fiction can be utilized in a courtroom setting or legally binding psi-chain set ...
If you know a thing you know a thing ... to comment on the thing is to be somehow reacting to the thing & gives a tulpafied reality to the thing that must be equalized somehow eventually ...
This is the root of gnosis/religion/philosophy/telepathy ... the high functioning paranoids who rule us is what we are discussing here ... er I am just realizing i may be a latent Q follower ... FREEEEDDDDOOOOMMM!!! #endtransmissionclick
#itsalltrue #neverusethewordit
The base line is that most people find Scientology a bit of a laugh, you watch the doco’s, snicker at the ideology, download Battlefield earth and the truely wonder if Tom Cruise does send every Scientologist a Christmas card. QAnon, unfortunately is in the heady infancy stage where people who desperately want to link conspiracy theory’s together, meet and get high off each other’s sweat as they rapidly tap their keyboards. QAnon is available to everyone, one misstep on YouTube and there is your algorithm gone! Scientology was never for everyone, and they didn’t want just anyone either.
I agree with all that - I do worry sometimes I don't take Scientology seriously enough, just in that my default is to laugh and make light of it, which sort of ignores all the stories of horrible, horrible abuse that have allegedly gone on in there. Truly awful stuff, eh.
Laughter has been programmed into the equation as a nullifying response pattern by our psi-lords David ... conditioned & quantumly induced giggling is all part of the plan ...
... see audience reaction on a certain talk show discussing injecting harvested baby skin into her face!
https://www.reddit.com/r/cringe/comments/hjz6fg/sandra_bullock_injects_baby_foreskin_in_her_face/
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/health/2015/04/14/baby-foreskin-facial-boston-hydrafacial/
... Issiah 55:8:9 ... #checkyourhead #glibfacetiousnessinthefaceoftruth #ourwaysarenotyourways #tartarianeverended #thefutureisxrated
'battlefield earth' has a very powerful message ... the excessive dramatics of performance & camera angles allows more truth to filtre through as we "bounce off the sharia".