Great read. I just subscribed to your newsletter and cant wait to see more. I used to follow VFF but stopped when I noticed their movement slowly introducing incendiary, anti-government rhetoric. They, like all cult like movements *do* prey on vulnerable people and I was once that vulnerable person in that vulnerable mindset. David Farrier im curious to know if you would ever write a piece on the more behavioural and social aspects of these communities? It’s almost cult-like, Feverish, frenzied, really high strung atmosphere that’s practically a breeding ground for extremist attitudes and behaviours under the guise of ‘freedom of speech’. The president trump era really radicalised this audience - i know this because i was part of it (no, i dont believe the government is inherently evil and wicked and wants to enslave us all. I believe in questioning things and healthy debate which is what attracted me about those circles in the first place) but it scared me to see how mean, volatile and probably unsafe these people are becoming especially in the last year or so. I began to see it for what it really is - a bunch of enablers, self righteously justifying eachothers bad behaviours. In their quests to ‘protect’ and ‘fight for freedom’, they are enslaving themselves to primitive mindsets with outlandishly, childish actions. Id Love to sit down with you and talk about all of this one fay if you’re ever in Wellington
Hey Angelo - so glad you questioned things as you went along and changed your approach. Wish more people thought like you! I did a little series on the mentality behind this stuff - you might like these pieces:
Hi Angelo. I think I recognise your name from the VFF page when you were one of the few who agreed with me when I told VFF that they were posting misleading information again. If that was you, thank you. And like David said in his reply to me, it's impossible to reason with people who are incapable of reasoning!
Yes I think you are right, I recognise your name too.
I hold VFF responsible for a mental breakdown I had earlier this year. I got so swept up in their journey, I contemplated suicide often because I thought to myself that if everything is as doom and gloom as they say it is, then what is the point in someone as insignificant as me even being alive. I have a lot of anger to VFF because their engagement with me (which went beyond the odd comment on a post here and there) directly contributed to the delicate headspace I found myself in. This is what drives me nuts about people like that; they don’t realise that what they are saying is *dangerous* to the psyche of delicate minds, let alone divisive and unhelpful to the rest of the population AND the government.
I have worked in the public sector for 5 years across 3 different ministries and 6 different departments. I am yet to encounter the kind of ludicrousness they preach exists. The people I have worked with and worked for have been incredible people, with beautiful outlooks and aspirations for all NZ’ers as a whole. Charitable with their time, giving of their resources, so many of my colleagues from jobs at MSD and MOE worked UNPAID overtime (unpaid because they never documented it as they dont think its a big deal) all for the tax payer - all for the benefit of the taxpayer and their children, and their children’s children. So I don’t take well to VFF and other associated groups complaining about the government but then doing nothing with themselves to be part of effective and proper change. Gaslighting people on the internet using conspiracy theory rhetoric is not helpful change, and certainly does not compare to some of the amazing efforts being done by public servants today.
I'm so fucking sorry to read about your experience Angelo. You write in an incredibly compelling way, and respect for not only getting out of that situation (not easy) but for communicating it so well. I am not sure if you would consider this at all, but if you ever wanted to expand on your ideas here, I would love to share it on Webworm. Could be anonymous / first name like you are doing here. I dunno - just hearing about your headspace when you got involved in listening to that group, what it did to you, and getting out -- I dunno, I think it could be really powerful and also helpful to a lot of people. If you are interested at all, drop me a line: davidfarrier@protonmail.com. Also totally fine if you don't want to revisit this time. Much aroha to you - and glad to think Webworm helped in some small way (but it was all you, believe me). David.
Oh Angelo, I just teared up when I read this. I'm so sorry for the pain you went through. You are quite right, they have no idea of the damaging effect they're having on some people. Please don't ever think you are insignificant, the world needs more people like you!
Kia ora David, Im currently reading The Premonition by Michael Lewis on the pandemic, and in particular the US response (or lack of it, particularly under Trump), it touches on the misinformation spread by business owners during the 1918 Influenza pandemic in the States who were against the social distancing and lockdown measures health officials implemented then, because of the negative impact on their profitability, it also touched on the role of business lobbyists in the current pandemic to influence policy. The last couple of years some revealing details about tobacco giants lobbying the NZ Government and donating to right wing community groups has exposed the role they are playing in NZ. I would not be surprised to see the same dynamics playing out with some of these anti-lockdown groups.
The investigation revealing who and what is behind the fake news here in NZ is much appreciated, even although it both saddens and maddens me. I know the links are with right wing groups in other countries and I would rather know than not know what is happening. I just wish this movement wasn't happening at all but wishes won't make it stop. I'm glad to hear what some leaders think might be a way to prevent people from being brainwashed by this dangerous movement.
Hope you're still enjoying your travels David and I'm very glad you still have your finger on the pulse of NZ politics for us. Thank you.
All of this anti-vax BS being spread around about the Covid vaccines is doing my head in. I've been checking out the Voices For Freedom Facebook page regularly over the last month or so and even attempted to correct some of the misinformation people were posting. It was like beating my head against a brick wall. I've now managed to get myself blocked from the page as VFF obviously don't like people to disagree with them. What is concerning to me is that I've noticed that lately the comments seem to be becoming more and more extreme with many people posting links to Youtube videos about Covid bioweapons and other crazy stuff. They seem to be working each other up into a kind of deluded fervour which VFF is encouraging by giving them a platform to share these ideas and blocking anyone who disagrees. People who've lost the ability to think rationally freak me out a little bit...... On a lighter note, that cake is hilarious, I love it!
Yeah, comment threads for this stuff just get increasingly unhinged and detached from reality. It's terrifying and frustrating. Thanks for trying, but yeah - hitting head against a wall. I think you're time is spent better getting some fresh air - it's just impossible to use reason.
well done re the banning! I have been banned from so many similar sites I don't even know whats going on anymore. And I am always polite - I just challenge them and ask them to point me to their evidence coz I am 'really interested in the truth....'- and it always results in abuse and finally, being blocked. Works for me, but it isn't me doing the abusing, lol.
I get so mad at these fake news spreaders and their evil shite - coz thats what it is....it puts people's lives at risk and it uses the very people who are likely most at risk against themselves and their own families and communities. SOOOOO mad. I have a friend who recently moved from the US (having been involved quite front line in the BLM), totally emigrated here. Go her! she moved out to the country and was getting nice and settled when an armed offenders squad appeared at the house next door (yep, P lab raid). Her utter horror, though, was reserved for the neighbour across the road who also came out to have a look at what was going on..... A dude with a Trump tattoo on his arm. She was gobsmacked. So am I. WTAF??!!! is wrong with these people!!!!!
The most incredible thing is how goal posts keep moving - "The pope was arrested" when he clearly wasn't or "Children in the basement in the pizza place in D.C." when the place doesn't even have a basement and yet people still believe anything those... fools... say, without questioning at least the "Hang on - you said this and this and nothing was actually true, why should I believe you now?"
Kudos to Byron - I love having his work here when he's dived into something like this. And thanks for subbing here - means I can pay writers like Byron for their work!
I predict Leona is going to grow into a formidable adult! As for the rest of it... sigh... It's an interesting read, but it's made me kinda sad on a Monday morning.
I was particularity struck by the following quote by Efeso Collins: “I’m open to any kind of discussion as long as it’s critical and valid...but if there’s a lack of balance and real thrashing of the issues available to people when they’re watching those conversations it’s of no use really to anyone, all it’s doing really is following the Facebook algorithm and just pushing out what you want to hear.”
I can't really speak for the spread of misinformation in N.Z. but here in Canada there is definitely a ton of misinformation being spread both through social media and, sadly, through people in public leadership positions as well.
There is a particular Member of Parliament who represents the district where I'm from who is notorious for spreading misinformation about COVID. His name is Randy Hillier if you ever see his name pop up in Canada related media/news. It's especially annoying because I occasionally see a select few "friends" on Facebook reposing his garbage statements. I've gotten to a point where it's been so frustrating I have to unfollow and take a break from social media altogether.
However, this has also driven me to do my own research, especially research into how communication technologies influence the way we locate, receive, and redistribute data and the psychology around how we receive media through particular virtual platforms. A term I discovered that I want to look into further is data voids which tend to create echo chambers for users. Perhaps anyone in the Webworm community knows more about this and has some thoughts? I'm still looking into it but this article reminded me about the term and I wanted to share!
Great read. I just subscribed to your newsletter and cant wait to see more. I used to follow VFF but stopped when I noticed their movement slowly introducing incendiary, anti-government rhetoric. They, like all cult like movements *do* prey on vulnerable people and I was once that vulnerable person in that vulnerable mindset. David Farrier im curious to know if you would ever write a piece on the more behavioural and social aspects of these communities? It’s almost cult-like, Feverish, frenzied, really high strung atmosphere that’s practically a breeding ground for extremist attitudes and behaviours under the guise of ‘freedom of speech’. The president trump era really radicalised this audience - i know this because i was part of it (no, i dont believe the government is inherently evil and wicked and wants to enslave us all. I believe in questioning things and healthy debate which is what attracted me about those circles in the first place) but it scared me to see how mean, volatile and probably unsafe these people are becoming especially in the last year or so. I began to see it for what it really is - a bunch of enablers, self righteously justifying eachothers bad behaviours. In their quests to ‘protect’ and ‘fight for freedom’, they are enslaving themselves to primitive mindsets with outlandishly, childish actions. Id Love to sit down with you and talk about all of this one fay if you’re ever in Wellington
Hey Angelo - so glad you questioned things as you went along and changed your approach. Wish more people thought like you! I did a little series on the mentality behind this stuff - you might like these pieces:
Part 1: https://www.webworm.co/p/a-therapists-view-of-conspiracy-theories
Part 2: https://www.webworm.co/p/a-therapist-on-conspiracy-theories
Thanks for being here!
Hi Angelo. I think I recognise your name from the VFF page when you were one of the few who agreed with me when I told VFF that they were posting misleading information again. If that was you, thank you. And like David said in his reply to me, it's impossible to reason with people who are incapable of reasoning!
Yes I think you are right, I recognise your name too.
I hold VFF responsible for a mental breakdown I had earlier this year. I got so swept up in their journey, I contemplated suicide often because I thought to myself that if everything is as doom and gloom as they say it is, then what is the point in someone as insignificant as me even being alive. I have a lot of anger to VFF because their engagement with me (which went beyond the odd comment on a post here and there) directly contributed to the delicate headspace I found myself in. This is what drives me nuts about people like that; they don’t realise that what they are saying is *dangerous* to the psyche of delicate minds, let alone divisive and unhelpful to the rest of the population AND the government.
I have worked in the public sector for 5 years across 3 different ministries and 6 different departments. I am yet to encounter the kind of ludicrousness they preach exists. The people I have worked with and worked for have been incredible people, with beautiful outlooks and aspirations for all NZ’ers as a whole. Charitable with their time, giving of their resources, so many of my colleagues from jobs at MSD and MOE worked UNPAID overtime (unpaid because they never documented it as they dont think its a big deal) all for the tax payer - all for the benefit of the taxpayer and their children, and their children’s children. So I don’t take well to VFF and other associated groups complaining about the government but then doing nothing with themselves to be part of effective and proper change. Gaslighting people on the internet using conspiracy theory rhetoric is not helpful change, and certainly does not compare to some of the amazing efforts being done by public servants today.
I'm so fucking sorry to read about your experience Angelo. You write in an incredibly compelling way, and respect for not only getting out of that situation (not easy) but for communicating it so well. I am not sure if you would consider this at all, but if you ever wanted to expand on your ideas here, I would love to share it on Webworm. Could be anonymous / first name like you are doing here. I dunno - just hearing about your headspace when you got involved in listening to that group, what it did to you, and getting out -- I dunno, I think it could be really powerful and also helpful to a lot of people. If you are interested at all, drop me a line: davidfarrier@protonmail.com. Also totally fine if you don't want to revisit this time. Much aroha to you - and glad to think Webworm helped in some small way (but it was all you, believe me). David.
Oh Angelo, I just teared up when I read this. I'm so sorry for the pain you went through. You are quite right, they have no idea of the damaging effect they're having on some people. Please don't ever think you are insignificant, the world needs more people like you!
When I saw the cake I thought it was another example of fake news. I'm glad to know the cake is not a lie.
It is very real.
Kia ora David, Im currently reading The Premonition by Michael Lewis on the pandemic, and in particular the US response (or lack of it, particularly under Trump), it touches on the misinformation spread by business owners during the 1918 Influenza pandemic in the States who were against the social distancing and lockdown measures health officials implemented then, because of the negative impact on their profitability, it also touched on the role of business lobbyists in the current pandemic to influence policy. The last couple of years some revealing details about tobacco giants lobbying the NZ Government and donating to right wing community groups has exposed the role they are playing in NZ. I would not be surprised to see the same dynamics playing out with some of these anti-lockdown groups.
Book added to my reading list. Thanks, Baz!
Hi Baz, thanks for mentioning this source. I'm definitely going to look this up!
The cake photo was fun.
The investigation revealing who and what is behind the fake news here in NZ is much appreciated, even although it both saddens and maddens me. I know the links are with right wing groups in other countries and I would rather know than not know what is happening. I just wish this movement wasn't happening at all but wishes won't make it stop. I'm glad to hear what some leaders think might be a way to prevent people from being brainwashed by this dangerous movement.
Hope you're still enjoying your travels David and I'm very glad you still have your finger on the pulse of NZ politics for us. Thank you.
Hey Catherine, yeah I want to keep checking in on NZ while over here. Will try and keep a balance of the two while on the road....
All of this anti-vax BS being spread around about the Covid vaccines is doing my head in. I've been checking out the Voices For Freedom Facebook page regularly over the last month or so and even attempted to correct some of the misinformation people were posting. It was like beating my head against a brick wall. I've now managed to get myself blocked from the page as VFF obviously don't like people to disagree with them. What is concerning to me is that I've noticed that lately the comments seem to be becoming more and more extreme with many people posting links to Youtube videos about Covid bioweapons and other crazy stuff. They seem to be working each other up into a kind of deluded fervour which VFF is encouraging by giving them a platform to share these ideas and blocking anyone who disagrees. People who've lost the ability to think rationally freak me out a little bit...... On a lighter note, that cake is hilarious, I love it!
Yeah, comment threads for this stuff just get increasingly unhinged and detached from reality. It's terrifying and frustrating. Thanks for trying, but yeah - hitting head against a wall. I think you're time is spent better getting some fresh air - it's just impossible to use reason.
well done re the banning! I have been banned from so many similar sites I don't even know whats going on anymore. And I am always polite - I just challenge them and ask them to point me to their evidence coz I am 'really interested in the truth....'- and it always results in abuse and finally, being blocked. Works for me, but it isn't me doing the abusing, lol.
I get so mad at these fake news spreaders and their evil shite - coz thats what it is....it puts people's lives at risk and it uses the very people who are likely most at risk against themselves and their own families and communities. SOOOOO mad. I have a friend who recently moved from the US (having been involved quite front line in the BLM), totally emigrated here. Go her! she moved out to the country and was getting nice and settled when an armed offenders squad appeared at the house next door (yep, P lab raid). Her utter horror, though, was reserved for the neighbour across the road who also came out to have a look at what was going on..... A dude with a Trump tattoo on his arm. She was gobsmacked. So am I. WTAF??!!! is wrong with these people!!!!!
PS: thank the lawd for cool 3 yr old birthday cakes!!
The most incredible thing is how goal posts keep moving - "The pope was arrested" when he clearly wasn't or "Children in the basement in the pizza place in D.C." when the place doesn't even have a basement and yet people still believe anything those... fools... say, without questioning at least the "Hang on - you said this and this and nothing was actually true, why should I believe you now?"
Fools follow cons.
Oh yeah, it's a constantly shifting field. Adjusting their reality as they go. It's very strange to watch.
Thank you for yet another great piece of investigation and a damn good read.
Kudos to Byron - I love having his work here when he's dived into something like this. And thanks for subbing here - means I can pay writers like Byron for their work!
Thanks Mark
That cake is the perfect start to my day thank you. Children who have a black sense of humour are my favourite type of humans 🖤
My pleasure.
I predict Leona is going to grow into a formidable adult! As for the rest of it... sigh... It's an interesting read, but it's made me kinda sad on a Monday morning.
Sorry for the sad! I suggested clicking through to the Lion King thread on twitter and reading the responses. Very cute and fun.
Great article, David & Byron.
I was particularity struck by the following quote by Efeso Collins: “I’m open to any kind of discussion as long as it’s critical and valid...but if there’s a lack of balance and real thrashing of the issues available to people when they’re watching those conversations it’s of no use really to anyone, all it’s doing really is following the Facebook algorithm and just pushing out what you want to hear.”
I can't really speak for the spread of misinformation in N.Z. but here in Canada there is definitely a ton of misinformation being spread both through social media and, sadly, through people in public leadership positions as well.
There is a particular Member of Parliament who represents the district where I'm from who is notorious for spreading misinformation about COVID. His name is Randy Hillier if you ever see his name pop up in Canada related media/news. It's especially annoying because I occasionally see a select few "friends" on Facebook reposing his garbage statements. I've gotten to a point where it's been so frustrating I have to unfollow and take a break from social media altogether.
However, this has also driven me to do my own research, especially research into how communication technologies influence the way we locate, receive, and redistribute data and the psychology around how we receive media through particular virtual platforms. A term I discovered that I want to look into further is data voids which tend to create echo chambers for users. Perhaps anyone in the Webworm community knows more about this and has some thoughts? I'm still looking into it but this article reminded me about the term and I wanted to share!