He pulled the EXACT same trick when The Spinoff tried to cover this last year - said he’d been hacked then took his social media offline, only to return a few weeks later.
I’m already very close to being late for work but I’m prepared to tip myself over the edge into complete and total tardiness in order to take the time to say, regarding both Gilda’s tweet and Leigh’s response, how much fucking more do these already successful, wealthy, socially-comfortable, educated people want? How much is enough? Just enjoy your lovely lives, make the most, us brown/woke/green people aren’t trying to pull you down, just lift others up. Literally don’t care what you (they!) do with your lives, hopefully enjoy the spoils of success actually, but don’t shit on the future prospects of those trying to do the same in a tougher system you’ve been able to glide across where we had to wade through. Fuck off with that.
I agree. It was tempting to go off an a tangent with Gilda - her timeline is horrific - but wanted to try and keep the through-line simple, to illustrate my overall point.
Crazy thing with Gilda is that she's a creative partner here - https://www.hellolimited.co.nz/about/ - they have some giant clients, and it's a real trip that she can go on about The Great Replacement conspiracy theory (blatantly racist and horrific) and an assortment of other racist filth, and it doesn't touch her day job.
I made it, just! Yes, I’m aware of her business stuff, urgh. Marc Ellis is another 90s/00s one that dislikes anything helpful to those in need (see the piece on him moving to Italy that was in Stuff or NZherald a year or so ago), and I had to stop reading about someone else just two days ago (it’s completely escaped me who, someone here will know) in either of those publications who started talking about “racist, divisive policies” and I was sooooo bitterly disappointed. Luckily Paula Bennett is taking time out from being on telly game shows to consider running for mayor so there’s some great news…**laughs manically into wine glass**
RUSSELL COUTTS! I had a 2:00am bolt-upright-fark-that’s-the-one moment about a week after posting this comment. I knew there was another media-savvy Sport Billy that made a shit tonne off the love of New Zealanders who then decided that New Zealanders suck anyway. And should be told they do.
I just stumbled across this article and how dissapointing!
When clicking that "hello limited" link above I was immediately struck by their font used on their main page when writing the word "act". I swear it's identical to the party "act" font. shudder. I wonder if that is a not so subtle dogwhistle to their clients on their ethics.
What has been wholly disheartening for me (in my personal life), is the brain-worms digging into the minds of adults I once *looked up to* as a child growing up in rural Appalachia. Knowing that some of my family members, mentors and loved ones (people who I believed to be good, kind, and ethical people) have fallen one-by-one for the QAnon drivel that's constantly being shoved down their demographic's (white, 50+ yrs. old, living in rural America) throats. I think about it quite often and it makes me sick to my stomach every time. It's also kept me from visiting my hometown in rural WV as much as I should. However, when I try to speak with them about it, genuinely asking them to engage the critical thinking skills I *know* they're capable of, I'm met with the all-too-familiar "doubling down." So, I'm at a loss for what to do. Sigh.
My partner has been getting sucked into this far-right leaning perspective and it's been causing a strain on our relationship. It's really hard on me- I tend to be "independent" where I can see pros and cons to both sides. I'm extremely open-minded and strive to understand different perspectives while navigating my own. But, where I draw the line is when one human is trying to control another. I can never be open-minded to that behavior. Unless someone or a community is being a danger to others and/ or society, they have the right to find happiness within themselves.
I have spoken to my partner and they've since taken a step back from getting sucked into the toxic Twitter feeds and right winged YouTube shows (i.e. the daily wire). But it is a battle that tends to surface time and time again, especially during election time, and I find myself worrying often about them. It's a difficult thing to navigate and I wish someone had the answers on how to guide and readjust loved ones perspectives who have gone down these dark rabbit holes.
I've noticed with my partner, allot of this derives from fear and them trying to find a way to regain control of the uncontrollable. The only way I seem to be able to bring them back to reality is to openly and patiently listen to their perspectives, and then gently remind them to focus on what is within their control. Otherwise, conflict arises between us and no progress is made.
(I talk to full-time debunker Mick West - author of "Escaping the Rabbit Hole" - about how to best engage with those caught in the grip of dangerous conspiracy thinking.)
David, thank you for the links- I will definitely look into these. Your work regarding conspiracies and Qanon have been extremely helpful already so I look forward to reading more.
Thank you for the resources, David! I will revisit these before my next trip some to WV (sometime in April). I must also ask, have you still been considering doing an episode of Flightless Bird focused on that region?
Kia ora Miranda, as an arrogant and selfish person, can I just recommend something I wrote as well? The thing you wrote about them being fearful and trying to gain control over the uncontrollable rang a heap of bells for me. It was the central realisation I had writing this feature for NZ Geographic (https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/reason-to-believe/) and it helped me to empathise with people who go down conspiracy rabbit holes. I essentially saw the same thing in myself, or at least my former self. What did I get from the church growing up? It was the same thing: a sense that the universe was explicable. That there was a grand narrative behind my life, even if it wasn't a particularly good one. Even a fearful certainty felt better than the chaos.
Once I understood that I felt prepped to write the rest of the feature.
Anyway, here's the relevant section for a tl;dr:
It’s tempting to say I lost someone important to me in God. But if I’m really honest, the panic I felt was less about losing someone meaningful, than the meaning their existence implied. Even if God was a moral monster for designing an Earth full of tapeworms, cancers and parasitic wasps, at least Earth was designed. Without that, I felt untethered. Suddenly, I was straitjacketed inside my slowly degenerating body. I had no one to plead to. No judge to hear my case. I felt the crushing reality: one day I would not be. The void of the universe was closing in, and on that day, I would meld with it seamlessly.
In other words, I was freaking out. I wanted someone to tell me, in a way I could actually believe, that there was coherence to the world. Wilson says that search for certainty is the background radiation to many of our beliefs, even if we don’t realise it consciously. “Those are existential fears and they’re innate. We don’t really talk about them. To admit we’re anxious beings in an uncertain universe is a big thing to come to terms with. That’s why we look for simple, clear solutions to complicated problems, whether they’re theological or conspiratorial.”
A belief system such as QAnon places its adherents in a cataclysmic battle between good and evil, and this easy binary provides a degree of comfort, says Wilson. “Thinking there’s demonic forces that are out to harm children but we can organise and defeat them is actually easier than just going, ‘The world is a really uncertain, confusing place where a lot of stuff happens randomly and actually there’s nothing you can do that guarantees your complete safety.’”
I completely understand and can empathize with this — especially the bit you said at the end about your partner trying to "regain control of the uncontrollable." My family are a multi-generational, Appalachian, blue-collar folk who have lived through many iterations of lower-income Appalachians being exploited by large coal companies, or certain politicians, etc. etc. etc. for political and capitalistic gain, and I think they truly believe embracing the alt-right is their "opportunity" to regain some sense of "control." Little do they know, the alt-right is just another body exploiting them and their social station for, yet again, political gain to a nefarious end. That's probably what makes me the most upset about it all — it's all so, so exploitative.
Yes, exactly, it is just about political gain. And I think what is so difficult is that it is coming from both sides, which can make it harder to navigate for those who are so consumed in the far-leaning extremism. Since this difficulty is with my partner, I hear what they are listening to and I can see how it can be very convincing because it does play on those fears. And it's the same with extreme left-wingers. Both extremist views become too conspiratorial and fear-based.
And when either side gets too extreme, that's when it turns hateful and toxic- and that's what the media latches onto.
Have a look back in David's archives Katherine. Psychologist Paul Wilson did some very good advice writing on how to communicate with those close to you who have gone down the rabbit hole. Some very useful tools there that I have shared with others who have family members who headed that direction.
THIS THIS THIS!! Been with my partner for 15 years, and pretty much since 2020 (covid, surprise surprise), he has fallen further and further ‘to the right’. Buying into all the alt-right theories and beliefs and trying to “EDUCATE” me. I am, and always have been, a person who prioritises kindness, acceptance, and inclusivity- and now it seems I’m married to somebody with polar opposite feelings. He says we shouldn’t let politics get in the way of our relationship, but it’s damn near impossible when it looks to me like our core beliefs on humanity could not be further apart. Maybe I’m “too emotional”, but to me (in this day and age), where one falls on the spectrum of Left ~ Right, is indicative of their humanitarian compass.
Rose, thank you for sharing that. It's comforting to know that somebody else is going through a very similar, unexpected situation in their marriage. It is extremely difficult to deal with the condescending "educate" moments and I find myself struggling to not totally lose it on him. Those conversations lead to me feeling very hopeless and I often feel like I'm married to a stranger who doesn't respect me or care about my thoughts.
As I'm navigating this, I've realized that I get too focused on wanting to control the situation and wanting get my husband back. However, that means I'm doing exactly what he's doing- I'm trying to control the uncontrollable, and thus the vicious cycle begins. I've turned into a hypocrite, wanting him to not focus on the uncontrollable when I'm doing exactly that.
So, I've had to take a step back, and focus on only what I can control: maintaining respect and empathy for my partner in those moments, trying to understand why he's so hyper focused on the right wing ideals, how I can help him feel less alone and scared, and how I can try to help him see that his focus on politics is unhealthy and is creating conflict in our marriage. It has really helped and I'm hoping that I'll see long lasting results.
I'm not saying to not express your beliefs because he needs to respect your perspective too, but what I'm saying is that you can't change his mind by engaging in a political debate. These extremists resort to doubling down instantly, so I try to turn the focus on us and understanding each other. This has helped him and I realize that we do still have similar core beliefs, but it's just gotten so muddled in all this conspiratorial extremism. Luckily this realization has motivated him to delete Twitter and stop watching allot of the right-winged content that was causing anxiety and paranoia for him. It honestly is like brainwashing and it's terrifying to think that your partner could be getting brainwashed without even realizing it.
I hope things improve Rose. I feel for you both- I know it's a terrible situation to be in.
You sound so empathetic and patient. I honestly couldn't do it and can't imagine what I would do in that position.
My dad is getting more right wing in his views but can still be challenged and is opened to debate but it makes my head explode a little bit tbh. I hope you have lots of support and can get through this.
Thanks Amy! I didn't realize so many people were experiencing something similar so I appreciate you sharing your experiences with the right-wing extremism with me.
Hi Miranda, really appreciate your (and Kate's) insightful discourse, thank you. It must be so difficult having your family and friends in this situation, I feel for you.
Okay so this is very off-topic but I have to ask after listening to the Flightless Birb episode on accents yesterday. How do you pronounce Appalachia? Is it lay-shah or latch-cha or...? I've heard it differs depending on where you are. Thanks! Haha 😅
Appa-latch-uh! :) In my experience all of us who live in the region pronounce it that way. That's anecdotal to my experience lol, but what I've generally heard all my life. Now, when I moved to Philadelphia seven years ago, I hear a mixture of both!
Thanks so much for the insider knowledge. I do find it interesting that the pronunciation differs. But that's why I wanted to hear from a local ☺️ wish I had some way to show off my new tidbit of info 😂
It's hard to avoid falling into despair about the state of the world these days - I think the biggest thing for me is not really seeing a way that it's going to get better, but a lot of ways that it's going to get worse. Seeing people you thought were sane falling for the rhetoric coming from the extreme right wing makes it harder to keep hope. You have to though - no point in feeling anything other than hope and trying to improve things
It's on a different topic but Josh Drummond wrote really well on the psychic distress that comes from confronting a huge societal problem and not seeing any way to fix it. I feel the same about this https://www.webworm.co/p/climate#details
Just because he sounded very reasonable and prosocial in public for many years, doesn’t mean he hasn’t always been racist and homophobic all his life As I was growing up, many people expressed racism, homophobia in personal spaces, but not in big public spaces
Sometimes social media just allows people to express their long-held views. Having other people on social media also, having those views sometimes gives them permission to show their true selves and to become more extreme in those views.
I have heard many cases of people spending a lot of time listening to Fox News and certain radio personalities, pushing them further and that direction but I feel they must’ve felt comfortable with those ideas in the first place to be so willing to listen to that rhetoric.
Absolutely this. As I've gotten older, I've noticed that when you get close in a small group (say workmates for example) the mask slips off. Definitely an unwelcome life lesson for young me.
Super insulting that they really thought I'd be comfortable with that shiz. Just plain infuriating.
Yes, insulting indeed. I feel ashamed I didnt challenge my old weed dealer, when after a year or so of civil chit chat, the racial slurs became regular. I never liked socialising with him anyway, you know, was just a means to an end. But, I still feel yuk that he likely thinks Im the same as him. Pisses me off actually. Anyway, I cut off that relationship 3 years ago.
Very good point. Social media also gives you the reinforcement you may not have gotten in the workplace or even your circle of friends.
I know NZ isn't as bad as Aus (where I am) but I am never surprised when a white person unveils themselves as a vile racist because it is reflective of the majority opinion here.
I can see it getting much worse here in New Zealand now we have a very right wing government. Their purpose is to transfer power and wealth to the very rich. The usual plan is to blame any convenient minority group. So they pump up the racism to blame Maori, poor people, in particular beneficiaries And people in the rainbow community
This means the racist and homophobic, are far more comfortable expressing their views
This includes the attack on The treaty of Waitangi, it includes the concept of guardianship over our land, environment and people. Rich fat cats want to use the concept of individual ownership of land, so they can rape and pillage it, this includes an Australian trying to get mining permits for a long time
When life is economically, tough many people need to find an external group to blame instead of blaming the rich leeches. They blame the most vulnerable because they are seen as an easy target.
You know what? As much as a cop out that response was, at least Leigh replied to you and was friendly. That’s more than can be said for most of the people you write about!
I have mixed thoughts on this one - I agree in some ways, but also suspect it's part of a larger "get out of jail free card" behaviour. As commenter Chris noted (tagged up top): "He pulled the EXACT same trick when The Spinoff tried to cover this last year - said he’d been hacked then took his social media offline, only to return a few weeks later."
I have to respectfully disagree with you there. A lot of racist/sexists/transphobes etc like to hide behind a mask of civility. Then, when somebody challenges them, they can claim they're being 'bullied' and 'persecuted '. After all, they weren't the ones who escalated it. They depend on people backing off in the name of politeness.
Twitter seems to have a real hacking issue lately. Strange that these new hackers do nothing more than cooked things and never actually change passwords and lock the hacked person out hey?
At the ripe old age of 72 I’ve recently been confronted with the sudden realisation that friends,including some which I’ve had from the mid 60s have become seemingly overnight,completely drawn into some of the weirdest drivel imaginable.One at his own wife’s funeral felt the need to tell us of her deep seated hatred of our recent PM calling her a bitch etc,supposedly as a message from beyond the grave🤔🤯My brother and I discussed this particular weird turn of events on the long drive home,and decided to attribute it to losing his wife,coupled with their recent move to Taranaki 😁Since then I’ve listened a bit more intently to what my longtime friends are into and I’m afraid there’s nothing to be done,except leave them to it.At this stage of my life I’ve no patience for F#ckwits ,nor do I feel the need to try and knock some sense into them,but I do miss the friendships we shared for over 50 years.
Your name made me laugh, a lot. Thanks for being here.
And sorry you're watching buddies who should be older and wiser going down these wormholes.
I think a lot of it is driven by fear and personal tragedy, as you say.
I also wonder how much it is about how some of us are wired. Like just reading you here, I feel no matter how shitty things would ever get for you, you are not off down one of these rabbit holes. You're brain and world view just haven't set you up for that.
Some people don't cope well with change. It's scary and confronting, especially when it feels like it's getting close to home (maybe thinking about the ways in which racism has had a deep-seated role in society, or in being a bit more accepting of how other people live and love).
In fact, to be fair, I think we all find ourselves challenged by change from time to time. And there's fundamentally two ways to approach it - 1) with curiosity and an openness to learning; or 2) with fear and rejection.
And there are plenty of people out there who are trying real hard to reach the people currently at that pivot point of decision and pulling them toward the fear side. They tell them about secret schemes and unspoken alliances with devious objectives.
Then, once you've started down that path there is an approximately infinite amount of further material to stoke the fear, as well as a mountain of other things to be fearful of.
I'm actually pretty sympathetic, in principle, to people who've fallen into this fear-based trap. It all started from some reasonable uncertainty that we all face at times, but they've likely been lured in by a cynical fear-peddling world.
Unfortunately once you're in, it's pretty hard to get out. It's especially difficult for those on the outside to pull others out of this fear and paranoia spiral.
What I'm saying, I guess, is that the friends of yours you mention probably started simply from a place of uncertainty, but have unfortunately be sucked into a world of fear. But but staying open to, and curious about, new ideas you can stay away from the fear.
And, best of all, you don't have to agree with every new idea or societal shift -- you can absolutely think people are wrong, or maybe just going a bit far. But just understand that it's not motivated by some secretive plot to undermine society, rather it's just an idealistic or evolving view of the world.
(Not sure why I felt compelled to offer such a lengthy comment, but it's a thing I think about a lot).
I agree there's nothing to be done but leave them to it, but I am also haunted by George Carlin's words, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
Ugh. It really can be tough to shake off that overwhelming dread associated with the collision of racism, transphobia, misogyny and climate change denial so prevalent in social media today. One huge factor in America that can’t be overlooked is how Fox News laid the groundwork for so much of this shit. I remember back in 2006 a favorite aunt stated spewing “Obama is a Muslim” crap and I was appalled. Unsurprisingly she’s now also anti vaccines and gets her “news” from telegram or parlor or some other site I can’t remember the name of. We need the webworm farm news stories now more than ever. Thanks for trying to save critical thinking David.
Almost identical story with my Californian aunt. She went a little further, claiming at a family dinner that Obama was a terrorist. She now has advanced dementia and can’t talk anymore. I’m not going to opine on that.
We've seen it so many times over the past several years with former "hero" type celebs and it is just getting exhausting. Kevin Sorbo pops up for me in the top spot! Dude was literally Hercules on a show we all used to watch all the time growing up. And now he's some kind of disgusting right wing propaganda machine 🙃🙃🙃.I don't understand. The mind boggles.
But at least Lucy Lawless is still a gem as always ❤️. The best Twitter exchange I've ever seen was her putting him in his place over some January 6th bullshit. It was glorious! Xena: Warrior Princess to the rescue!
When I was about 12 my next-door neighbour was the stunt co-ordinator on Hercules and Xena. Kevin actually practiced stunts in our front yard quite a few times (the neighbour didn't have a open flat space to rehearse fights).
He was lovely to me back then. I often think about how far things have come.
sorbo and his wife, kristy swanson, james woods...there was a local con that was fairly xtian/conservative (which was confusing!) and the headliner was dean cain...
Well that sucks. I hate being so pessimistic but I’ve never seen someone crawl back out of the rabbit hole.
Also, David, as I’ve mentioned on here before I’m a bookseller. Yesterday I received a big shipment of a new release from publisher Allen & Unwin called “Mine is the Kingdom: The rise and fall of Brian Houston and the Hillsong Church” by David Hardaker. Judging by the amount I received I’m going to assume a big media spot is coming.
I once found one (1) person who crawled out of a rabbit hole. Interviewed her for this feature if you want to experience a small sliver of hope https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/reason-to-believe/
It has been a great series, and a bit of an eye-opener for what goes on with these panels post the submissions. Thanks for the amusing contribution, it needed a laugh or two
What a mission of a read (baby fed twice in the time it took me to finish) but excellent! The 1080 guy is the best one because I think we like to imagine tough blokey hunters as sort of beyond conversation 😅
Maybe the classic movie depiction of the zombie apocalypse is wrong. They aren't dead and craving and eating bodies, but alive, brain dead from the worms and seeking to assimilate anyone free thinking 🤔.
I'm relatively new to Aotearoa, coming up on 5 years here, so I don't have any long history with Leigh Hart being a "TV hero" or his earlier work. However during one of the lockdowns, there was a TV show he did, I can't remember what it was but it was set in his home with his family, which looked interesting so I tuned in. I got to the 2nd episode before he made some shitty "joke" about trans people and a couple of comments that made me realise I was watching some kind of conservative personality, and I bailed out. So what's that, 4 years ago? He was already showing who he was back then, maybe he has got more unhinged since then, but this was all no surprise to me when I opened this article.
Folks take your kids to your local library. Get them reading as much as possible. Talk to them about how there are lots of interested parties who want to get them believing lies. Teach them that it's OK ask lots of questions and be wary of anything that is too easy or convenient. It's the only way we're going to combat this massive propaganda/disinformation war that is being waged in the world right now.
Oof. I never watched that show, but I suppose we just add it to the bigger picture of what was going on, right? Sorry you had to have that shit while you were stuck in lockdown.
Support for trans people really is a wedge issue. It is hard now to tease out issues; one bleeds into the other. I don’t want to just hold a package of opinions and values. I want some goddam nuance. But it’s becoming more like inclusivity, communality, listening, vs whatever that other lot do. I need to understand the whole thing better. Thanks David as usual for showing me bits of the world I wouldn’t normally see.
Trans rights; racial equality; social equity; feminism; urban development; social welfare; voting systems; vaccines; virus theory (!); women's health; the list goes on.
And in any of these issues there may well be worthwhile nuanced discussion to be had, and there are definitely varied positions and ideas. But there is a massive and highly motivated universe of people who are actively exploiting honestly held uncertainty about these things by cynically introducing cultural war talking points designed to radicalise the uncertain into a specific reactionary position.
They literally have a term for it - "red pilling"
Once someone has swallowed one red pill on any of these issues, there's a complex and powerful network of interconnected ideas that rapidly pulls them toward others.
Was it trans sports that first pulled Leigh (or his hacker?) in that direction... No idea. Could have been that, but he's also expressed some fairly reactionary positions to Covid measures too, so maybe that was the way in?
As for any of the issues - you can absolutely hold nuanced positions on them. Even within those on the more "woke" side of any of them there's often pretty spirited dispute. But it helps to also try to "assume good intent" - that is to say, the people having these discussions are usually genuine and want good things for all involved. People suggesting that there are deep and complex conspiracies underlying it all are not coming from a good place.
This is probably an overly simplistic comment, but I think your last paragraph sums it up, “but the important thing is that they’re making massive bank”
Some people are susceptible, I imagine, to the dopamine kicks that come along with popularity, and as you said, as one fan base dwindles they desperately seek it out elsewhere. Driven by ego and money. Very disheartening when the worms infest those whom you’ve assumed would be immune.
I wonder if in a world where we all feel increasingly alienated from each other, that we’re all much more susceptible to this than we care to admit. We all just want to belong, and when belonging is increasingly harder to find, people take it where they can get it 🤷🏻♀️
Yup! They'll literally take anyone while the left argues about which movies are feminist enough :( Poor Emily Writes had people blowing up her DMs about this very thing, and the opinions covered both ends of the spectrum. I wish we could get our shit together a bit more on the left! We can be pretty harsh on people when they fuck up. We could do with giving people a bit more grace and room to find their way back when they've messed up or fallen down a rabbit hole. Otherwise we risk pushing people over to the right and committing them to stay there.
Yes, I do believe the loss of community is a primary driver into what ails our society and feeds the worms. American society is so isolating. I don’t have any solutions other than to tear down our current track housing neighbourhoods and build smaller pod type neighbourhoods around a central garden and park. As well as to more mixed use zoning so neighbourhoods have cafes, bakeries, a pub etc. more like Europe, which would spur more walking, biking and connecting than solo driving.
It would take a complete do over of our current (American) society. So more a wish. And who knows if that make a significant difference or not. Europe is definitely not immune either. It’s a mix of lack of community, being anonymous of the socials, AI, religion and politics- we’re a complex, messy lot, us humans.
I'm so very glad I moved to NZ 16 years ago. What I noticed then: no Jesus fish stickers on cars. Now: Kiwis at least don't throw the shitty example of the US at me so often since this place has fast tracked to meet up with the ism champion. I find that my main feeling is not a new one, certainly one I can recall from being a kid and being hacked off that we shoved the First Nations into little pockets and were so very obviously exclusive and mean. That remains, but what I didn't have as a child and do now is a profound wish to burn it all down (safely somehow?) and start again.
I think none of us is immune. We are bombarded with "information" all day long, through radio, internet, etc. Sorting out what is accurate from the reckons and misinformation is exhausting, especially if one also wants some sort of life.
My own method is to back out of everything when it threatens to overwhelm; look at the sky; look at small children, animals; remember what joy there is in wholehearted laughter. We can worry ourselves sick otherwise. Yes, there is a lot in the world that is horrible, but there is also much that is truly wonderful.
I think it depends on your core values though. There has to be a hook that makes these theories or opinions click for you that there is something in there that aligns with your world view. People that I have seen go down the cooker pipeline generally showed signs they were susceptible to conspiratorial thinking.
I think since Trump it has become more acceptable to say things out loud with no redress.
He pulled the EXACT same trick when The Spinoff tried to cover this last year - said he’d been hacked then took his social media offline, only to return a few weeks later.
Oh - wow. I did not know this. Thanks for this added context, Chris.
Why didn't the Spinny publish? Too afraid of the high-powered Moon TV legal dept?
Didn't want Speedo Cops after us I guess :/
😁🤣👏
So weird that he didn't take the opportunity then to get these pesky hackers out of his account before restoring it.
What a complete turkey!
Oh yuck
I’m already very close to being late for work but I’m prepared to tip myself over the edge into complete and total tardiness in order to take the time to say, regarding both Gilda’s tweet and Leigh’s response, how much fucking more do these already successful, wealthy, socially-comfortable, educated people want? How much is enough? Just enjoy your lovely lives, make the most, us brown/woke/green people aren’t trying to pull you down, just lift others up. Literally don’t care what you (they!) do with your lives, hopefully enjoy the spoils of success actually, but don’t shit on the future prospects of those trying to do the same in a tougher system you’ve been able to glide across where we had to wade through. Fuck off with that.
I agree. It was tempting to go off an a tangent with Gilda - her timeline is horrific - but wanted to try and keep the through-line simple, to illustrate my overall point.
Crazy thing with Gilda is that she's a creative partner here - https://www.hellolimited.co.nz/about/ - they have some giant clients, and it's a real trip that she can go on about The Great Replacement conspiracy theory (blatantly racist and horrific) and an assortment of other racist filth, and it doesn't touch her day job.
Also - hope you weren't too late to work!
I made it, just! Yes, I’m aware of her business stuff, urgh. Marc Ellis is another 90s/00s one that dislikes anything helpful to those in need (see the piece on him moving to Italy that was in Stuff or NZherald a year or so ago), and I had to stop reading about someone else just two days ago (it’s completely escaped me who, someone here will know) in either of those publications who started talking about “racist, divisive policies” and I was sooooo bitterly disappointed. Luckily Paula Bennett is taking time out from being on telly game shows to consider running for mayor so there’s some great news…**laughs manically into wine glass**
I will join you in that wine glass
RUSSELL COUTTS! I had a 2:00am bolt-upright-fark-that’s-the-one moment about a week after posting this comment. I knew there was another media-savvy Sport Billy that made a shit tonne off the love of New Zealanders who then decided that New Zealanders suck anyway. And should be told they do.
For a communication, sorry, conversation company there's precious little information conveyed on their website
Oh my - just clicked on the link -
the irony
Oh god... how about an antithesis agency glcalled "Goodbye" ! (But I couldn't make it wanky enough)
I just stumbled across this article and how dissapointing!
When clicking that "hello limited" link above I was immediately struck by their font used on their main page when writing the word "act". I swear it's identical to the party "act" font. shudder. I wonder if that is a not so subtle dogwhistle to their clients on their ethics.
Like isn't enough - I LOVE this comment.
So with you, on all of that ! Keep wading, we can make this better. Where is that care emoji? Put it here !
Had to get rid of that Gilda woman's tweets. So toxic. Rabid really.
From my experience most rich people are actually quite unhappy
What has been wholly disheartening for me (in my personal life), is the brain-worms digging into the minds of adults I once *looked up to* as a child growing up in rural Appalachia. Knowing that some of my family members, mentors and loved ones (people who I believed to be good, kind, and ethical people) have fallen one-by-one for the QAnon drivel that's constantly being shoved down their demographic's (white, 50+ yrs. old, living in rural America) throats. I think about it quite often and it makes me sick to my stomach every time. It's also kept me from visiting my hometown in rural WV as much as I should. However, when I try to speak with them about it, genuinely asking them to engage the critical thinking skills I *know* they're capable of, I'm met with the all-too-familiar "doubling down." So, I'm at a loss for what to do. Sigh.
I completely agree with you Miranda.
My partner has been getting sucked into this far-right leaning perspective and it's been causing a strain on our relationship. It's really hard on me- I tend to be "independent" where I can see pros and cons to both sides. I'm extremely open-minded and strive to understand different perspectives while navigating my own. But, where I draw the line is when one human is trying to control another. I can never be open-minded to that behavior. Unless someone or a community is being a danger to others and/ or society, they have the right to find happiness within themselves.
I have spoken to my partner and they've since taken a step back from getting sucked into the toxic Twitter feeds and right winged YouTube shows (i.e. the daily wire). But it is a battle that tends to surface time and time again, especially during election time, and I find myself worrying often about them. It's a difficult thing to navigate and I wish someone had the answers on how to guide and readjust loved ones perspectives who have gone down these dark rabbit holes.
I've noticed with my partner, allot of this derives from fear and them trying to find a way to regain control of the uncontrollable. The only way I seem to be able to bring them back to reality is to openly and patiently listen to their perspectives, and then gently remind them to focus on what is within their control. Otherwise, conflict arises between us and no progress is made.
I feel for you - and commend your patience here.
I feel you may have already worked beyond this, but if it helps - some older Webworms that deal in this space:
https://www.webworm.co/p/holidayhellscape
(Staying sane while distant relatives descend into your life with screams of "I've been doing my own research...")
https://www.webworm.co/p/a-therapists-view-of-conspiracy-theories
(part 1: Who better to talk to about disappearing down rabbit holes than someone who's dealing with them in their day job?)
https://www.webworm.co/p/a-therapist-on-conspiracy-theories
(part 2)
3) https://www.webworm.co/p/how-to-talk-to-people-stuck-in-a
(I talk to full-time debunker Mick West - author of "Escaping the Rabbit Hole" - about how to best engage with those caught in the grip of dangerous conspiracy thinking.)
David, thank you for the links- I will definitely look into these. Your work regarding conspiracies and Qanon have been extremely helpful already so I look forward to reading more.
Thank you for the resources, David! I will revisit these before my next trip some to WV (sometime in April). I must also ask, have you still been considering doing an episode of Flightless Bird focused on that region?
Kia ora Miranda, as an arrogant and selfish person, can I just recommend something I wrote as well? The thing you wrote about them being fearful and trying to gain control over the uncontrollable rang a heap of bells for me. It was the central realisation I had writing this feature for NZ Geographic (https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/reason-to-believe/) and it helped me to empathise with people who go down conspiracy rabbit holes. I essentially saw the same thing in myself, or at least my former self. What did I get from the church growing up? It was the same thing: a sense that the universe was explicable. That there was a grand narrative behind my life, even if it wasn't a particularly good one. Even a fearful certainty felt better than the chaos.
Once I understood that I felt prepped to write the rest of the feature.
Anyway, here's the relevant section for a tl;dr:
It’s tempting to say I lost someone important to me in God. But if I’m really honest, the panic I felt was less about losing someone meaningful, than the meaning their existence implied. Even if God was a moral monster for designing an Earth full of tapeworms, cancers and parasitic wasps, at least Earth was designed. Without that, I felt untethered. Suddenly, I was straitjacketed inside my slowly degenerating body. I had no one to plead to. No judge to hear my case. I felt the crushing reality: one day I would not be. The void of the universe was closing in, and on that day, I would meld with it seamlessly.
In other words, I was freaking out. I wanted someone to tell me, in a way I could actually believe, that there was coherence to the world. Wilson says that search for certainty is the background radiation to many of our beliefs, even if we don’t realise it consciously. “Those are existential fears and they’re innate. We don’t really talk about them. To admit we’re anxious beings in an uncertain universe is a big thing to come to terms with. That’s why we look for simple, clear solutions to complicated problems, whether they’re theological or conspiratorial.”
A belief system such as QAnon places its adherents in a cataclysmic battle between good and evil, and this easy binary provides a degree of comfort, says Wilson. “Thinking there’s demonic forces that are out to harm children but we can organise and defeat them is actually easier than just going, ‘The world is a really uncertain, confusing place where a lot of stuff happens randomly and actually there’s nothing you can do that guarantees your complete safety.’”
This is super insightful, thank you for sharing! I will take a deep-dive look into this sometime this evening after work. I appreciate it!
I completely understand and can empathize with this — especially the bit you said at the end about your partner trying to "regain control of the uncontrollable." My family are a multi-generational, Appalachian, blue-collar folk who have lived through many iterations of lower-income Appalachians being exploited by large coal companies, or certain politicians, etc. etc. etc. for political and capitalistic gain, and I think they truly believe embracing the alt-right is their "opportunity" to regain some sense of "control." Little do they know, the alt-right is just another body exploiting them and their social station for, yet again, political gain to a nefarious end. That's probably what makes me the most upset about it all — it's all so, so exploitative.
Yes, exactly, it is just about political gain. And I think what is so difficult is that it is coming from both sides, which can make it harder to navigate for those who are so consumed in the far-leaning extremism. Since this difficulty is with my partner, I hear what they are listening to and I can see how it can be very convincing because it does play on those fears. And it's the same with extreme left-wingers. Both extremist views become too conspiratorial and fear-based.
And when either side gets too extreme, that's when it turns hateful and toxic- and that's what the media latches onto.
Well said - I'd never thought about the fact that it's exploitation either way.
Have a look back in David's archives Katherine. Psychologist Paul Wilson did some very good advice writing on how to communicate with those close to you who have gone down the rabbit hole. Some very useful tools there that I have shared with others who have family members who headed that direction.
Thank you for letting me know about that resource! That sounds helpful.
THIS THIS THIS!! Been with my partner for 15 years, and pretty much since 2020 (covid, surprise surprise), he has fallen further and further ‘to the right’. Buying into all the alt-right theories and beliefs and trying to “EDUCATE” me. I am, and always have been, a person who prioritises kindness, acceptance, and inclusivity- and now it seems I’m married to somebody with polar opposite feelings. He says we shouldn’t let politics get in the way of our relationship, but it’s damn near impossible when it looks to me like our core beliefs on humanity could not be further apart. Maybe I’m “too emotional”, but to me (in this day and age), where one falls on the spectrum of Left ~ Right, is indicative of their humanitarian compass.
Rose, thank you for sharing that. It's comforting to know that somebody else is going through a very similar, unexpected situation in their marriage. It is extremely difficult to deal with the condescending "educate" moments and I find myself struggling to not totally lose it on him. Those conversations lead to me feeling very hopeless and I often feel like I'm married to a stranger who doesn't respect me or care about my thoughts.
As I'm navigating this, I've realized that I get too focused on wanting to control the situation and wanting get my husband back. However, that means I'm doing exactly what he's doing- I'm trying to control the uncontrollable, and thus the vicious cycle begins. I've turned into a hypocrite, wanting him to not focus on the uncontrollable when I'm doing exactly that.
So, I've had to take a step back, and focus on only what I can control: maintaining respect and empathy for my partner in those moments, trying to understand why he's so hyper focused on the right wing ideals, how I can help him feel less alone and scared, and how I can try to help him see that his focus on politics is unhealthy and is creating conflict in our marriage. It has really helped and I'm hoping that I'll see long lasting results.
I'm not saying to not express your beliefs because he needs to respect your perspective too, but what I'm saying is that you can't change his mind by engaging in a political debate. These extremists resort to doubling down instantly, so I try to turn the focus on us and understanding each other. This has helped him and I realize that we do still have similar core beliefs, but it's just gotten so muddled in all this conspiratorial extremism. Luckily this realization has motivated him to delete Twitter and stop watching allot of the right-winged content that was causing anxiety and paranoia for him. It honestly is like brainwashing and it's terrifying to think that your partner could be getting brainwashed without even realizing it.
I hope things improve Rose. I feel for you both- I know it's a terrible situation to be in.
You sound so empathetic and patient. I honestly couldn't do it and can't imagine what I would do in that position.
My dad is getting more right wing in his views but can still be challenged and is opened to debate but it makes my head explode a little bit tbh. I hope you have lots of support and can get through this.
Thanks Amy! I didn't realize so many people were experiencing something similar so I appreciate you sharing your experiences with the right-wing extremism with me.
Hi Miranda, really appreciate your (and Kate's) insightful discourse, thank you. It must be so difficult having your family and friends in this situation, I feel for you.
Okay so this is very off-topic but I have to ask after listening to the Flightless Birb episode on accents yesterday. How do you pronounce Appalachia? Is it lay-shah or latch-cha or...? I've heard it differs depending on where you are. Thanks! Haha 😅
Appa-latch-uh! :) In my experience all of us who live in the region pronounce it that way. That's anecdotal to my experience lol, but what I've generally heard all my life. Now, when I moved to Philadelphia seven years ago, I hear a mixture of both!
Thanks so much for the insider knowledge. I do find it interesting that the pronunciation differs. But that's why I wanted to hear from a local ☺️ wish I had some way to show off my new tidbit of info 😂
Really disappointing to see that from Leigh.
It's hard to avoid falling into despair about the state of the world these days - I think the biggest thing for me is not really seeing a way that it's going to get better, but a lot of ways that it's going to get worse. Seeing people you thought were sane falling for the rhetoric coming from the extreme right wing makes it harder to keep hope. You have to though - no point in feeling anything other than hope and trying to improve things
It's on a different topic but Josh Drummond wrote really well on the psychic distress that comes from confronting a huge societal problem and not seeing any way to fix it. I feel the same about this https://www.webworm.co/p/climate#details
Seconded - Josh wrote so eloquently on this.
This, 100%.
Just because he sounded very reasonable and prosocial in public for many years, doesn’t mean he hasn’t always been racist and homophobic all his life As I was growing up, many people expressed racism, homophobia in personal spaces, but not in big public spaces
Sometimes social media just allows people to express their long-held views. Having other people on social media also, having those views sometimes gives them permission to show their true selves and to become more extreme in those views.
I have heard many cases of people spending a lot of time listening to Fox News and certain radio personalities, pushing them further and that direction but I feel they must’ve felt comfortable with those ideas in the first place to be so willing to listen to that rhetoric.
Absolutely this. As I've gotten older, I've noticed that when you get close in a small group (say workmates for example) the mask slips off. Definitely an unwelcome life lesson for young me.
Super insulting that they really thought I'd be comfortable with that shiz. Just plain infuriating.
Yes, insulting indeed. I feel ashamed I didnt challenge my old weed dealer, when after a year or so of civil chit chat, the racial slurs became regular. I never liked socialising with him anyway, you know, was just a means to an end. But, I still feel yuk that he likely thinks Im the same as him. Pisses me off actually. Anyway, I cut off that relationship 3 years ago.
Glad they're out of your life, good on you.
Very good point. Social media also gives you the reinforcement you may not have gotten in the workplace or even your circle of friends.
I know NZ isn't as bad as Aus (where I am) but I am never surprised when a white person unveils themselves as a vile racist because it is reflective of the majority opinion here.
I can see it getting much worse here in New Zealand now we have a very right wing government. Their purpose is to transfer power and wealth to the very rich. The usual plan is to blame any convenient minority group. So they pump up the racism to blame Maori, poor people, in particular beneficiaries And people in the rainbow community
This means the racist and homophobic, are far more comfortable expressing their views
This includes the attack on The treaty of Waitangi, it includes the concept of guardianship over our land, environment and people. Rich fat cats want to use the concept of individual ownership of land, so they can rape and pillage it, this includes an Australian trying to get mining permits for a long time
When life is economically, tough many people need to find an external group to blame instead of blaming the rich leeches. They blame the most vulnerable because they are seen as an easy target.
Ugh. That is so depressing.
Let me guess old Gina is trying to get amongst it? I know she has stakes in lithium mines in NZ.
Sadly we are universally awful here even with a Labor government. Don't be like us.
p.s. You are incredibly articulate. Thank you for posting about the state of matters in NZ. Really appreciate it.
It’s Clive Palmer. https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/05/25/mining-giant-sets-sights-on-nz-including-conservation-land/
There are others as well exploiting other land
Oh jesus. He is a class A dickhead. You know you're all class when you are dubbed "Australia's Trump".
Well said Elaine!
THIS!
You know what? As much as a cop out that response was, at least Leigh replied to you and was friendly. That’s more than can be said for most of the people you write about!
I have mixed thoughts on this one - I agree in some ways, but also suspect it's part of a larger "get out of jail free card" behaviour. As commenter Chris noted (tagged up top): "He pulled the EXACT same trick when The Spinoff tried to cover this last year - said he’d been hacked then took his social media offline, only to return a few weeks later."
I have to respectfully disagree with you there. A lot of racist/sexists/transphobes etc like to hide behind a mask of civility. Then, when somebody challenges them, they can claim they're being 'bullied' and 'persecuted '. After all, they weren't the ones who escalated it. They depend on people backing off in the name of politeness.
Eeew ugh I hadn’t considered this possible path. Sorry that you’ve clearly had to experience this to be alert to it.
Twitter seems to have a real hacking issue lately. Strange that these new hackers do nothing more than cooked things and never actually change passwords and lock the hacked person out hey?
It is pretty strange when the group of hackers also sounds remarkably like one person.
A very weird long game.
At the ripe old age of 72 I’ve recently been confronted with the sudden realisation that friends,including some which I’ve had from the mid 60s have become seemingly overnight,completely drawn into some of the weirdest drivel imaginable.One at his own wife’s funeral felt the need to tell us of her deep seated hatred of our recent PM calling her a bitch etc,supposedly as a message from beyond the grave🤔🤯My brother and I discussed this particular weird turn of events on the long drive home,and decided to attribute it to losing his wife,coupled with their recent move to Taranaki 😁Since then I’ve listened a bit more intently to what my longtime friends are into and I’m afraid there’s nothing to be done,except leave them to it.At this stage of my life I’ve no patience for F#ckwits ,nor do I feel the need to try and knock some sense into them,but I do miss the friendships we shared for over 50 years.
Your name made me laugh, a lot. Thanks for being here.
And sorry you're watching buddies who should be older and wiser going down these wormholes.
I think a lot of it is driven by fear and personal tragedy, as you say.
I also wonder how much it is about how some of us are wired. Like just reading you here, I feel no matter how shitty things would ever get for you, you are not off down one of these rabbit holes. You're brain and world view just haven't set you up for that.
I feel the same way. I feel cynical and aware and
Some people don't cope well with change. It's scary and confronting, especially when it feels like it's getting close to home (maybe thinking about the ways in which racism has had a deep-seated role in society, or in being a bit more accepting of how other people live and love).
In fact, to be fair, I think we all find ourselves challenged by change from time to time. And there's fundamentally two ways to approach it - 1) with curiosity and an openness to learning; or 2) with fear and rejection.
And there are plenty of people out there who are trying real hard to reach the people currently at that pivot point of decision and pulling them toward the fear side. They tell them about secret schemes and unspoken alliances with devious objectives.
Then, once you've started down that path there is an approximately infinite amount of further material to stoke the fear, as well as a mountain of other things to be fearful of.
I'm actually pretty sympathetic, in principle, to people who've fallen into this fear-based trap. It all started from some reasonable uncertainty that we all face at times, but they've likely been lured in by a cynical fear-peddling world.
Unfortunately once you're in, it's pretty hard to get out. It's especially difficult for those on the outside to pull others out of this fear and paranoia spiral.
What I'm saying, I guess, is that the friends of yours you mention probably started simply from a place of uncertainty, but have unfortunately be sucked into a world of fear. But but staying open to, and curious about, new ideas you can stay away from the fear.
And, best of all, you don't have to agree with every new idea or societal shift -- you can absolutely think people are wrong, or maybe just going a bit far. But just understand that it's not motivated by some secretive plot to undermine society, rather it's just an idealistic or evolving view of the world.
(Not sure why I felt compelled to offer such a lengthy comment, but it's a thing I think about a lot).
Very well said Dylan 👏
I agree there's nothing to be done but leave them to it, but I am also haunted by George Carlin's words, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
George Carlin was a wise man 🙂
HAHA Taranaki-dweller here laughing hard in full agreement 🤣
Ugh. It really can be tough to shake off that overwhelming dread associated with the collision of racism, transphobia, misogyny and climate change denial so prevalent in social media today. One huge factor in America that can’t be overlooked is how Fox News laid the groundwork for so much of this shit. I remember back in 2006 a favorite aunt stated spewing “Obama is a Muslim” crap and I was appalled. Unsurprisingly she’s now also anti vaccines and gets her “news” from telegram or parlor or some other site I can’t remember the name of. We need the webworm farm news stories now more than ever. Thanks for trying to save critical thinking David.
Almost identical story with my Californian aunt. She went a little further, claiming at a family dinner that Obama was a terrorist. She now has advanced dementia and can’t talk anymore. I’m not going to opine on that.
It's very clear to me that collectively we are not getting smarter as a species ☹️
It's particularly annoying how this wonderful informational tool of the internet is mainly being used to disseminate bad, dumb ideas!
Humanity has yet to demonstrate that its collective intelligence is greater than that of a yeast colony in a petri dish....
I think the trouble is we're not doing anything collectively!
I think you're right
We've seen it so many times over the past several years with former "hero" type celebs and it is just getting exhausting. Kevin Sorbo pops up for me in the top spot! Dude was literally Hercules on a show we all used to watch all the time growing up. And now he's some kind of disgusting right wing propaganda machine 🙃🙃🙃.I don't understand. The mind boggles.
But at least Lucy Lawless is still a gem as always ❤️. The best Twitter exchange I've ever seen was her putting him in his place over some January 6th bullshit. It was glorious! Xena: Warrior Princess to the rescue!
Kevin Sorbo is a whole other level.
Glad I was always as Xena guy myself!
When I was about 12 my next-door neighbour was the stunt co-ordinator on Hercules and Xena. Kevin actually practiced stunts in our front yard quite a few times (the neighbour didn't have a open flat space to rehearse fights).
He was lovely to me back then. I often think about how far things have come.
It must be so sad to see where he ended up!!
Scott Baio as well. A couple of years back he got into an invective-ridden Twitter fight with Richard Marx, which was a sight to behold
Of course, South Park was trashing Baio before we saw it get here. Ass hat giving every one pink eye.
I remember that!!
sorbo and his wife, kristy swanson, james woods...there was a local con that was fairly xtian/conservative (which was confusing!) and the headliner was dean cain...
I forgot Dean Cain is also garbage 🙃🙃🙃🙃. So much for Superman 😟
Well that sucks. I hate being so pessimistic but I’ve never seen someone crawl back out of the rabbit hole.
Also, David, as I’ve mentioned on here before I’m a bookseller. Yesterday I received a big shipment of a new release from publisher Allen & Unwin called “Mine is the Kingdom: The rise and fall of Brian Houston and the Hillsong Church” by David Hardaker. Judging by the amount I received I’m going to assume a big media spot is coming.
I just got a PDF of that from the publisher and it's a doozy. I hope you sell the shit out of that thing!
I once found one (1) person who crawled out of a rabbit hole. Interviewed her for this feature if you want to experience a small sliver of hope https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/reason-to-believe/
Thanks Hayden, some reading for later. Your Wellington piece on the SO was a cracker btw. Love the Black Seeds or Black Seeds adjacent quip.
Please do not use Webworm space for complimenting Hayden too much, he will become insufferable.
(Fine then, go ahead, he does great work).
Yes, yes he does David. Oh all right, so do you (condescending head pat).
Thanks Graham, as a veteran of the War for Auckland I wholeheartedly support The Spinoff's latest offensive and had to find some way to contribute
It has been a great series, and a bit of an eye-opener for what goes on with these panels post the submissions. Thanks for the amusing contribution, it needed a laugh or two
What a mission of a read (baby fed twice in the time it took me to finish) but excellent! The 1080 guy is the best one because I think we like to imagine tough blokey hunters as sort of beyond conversation 😅
Dammit Hayden you’re restoring my faith in humanity again
Maybe the classic movie depiction of the zombie apocalypse is wrong. They aren't dead and craving and eating bodies, but alive, brain dead from the worms and seeking to assimilate anyone free thinking 🤔.
I'm relatively new to Aotearoa, coming up on 5 years here, so I don't have any long history with Leigh Hart being a "TV hero" or his earlier work. However during one of the lockdowns, there was a TV show he did, I can't remember what it was but it was set in his home with his family, which looked interesting so I tuned in. I got to the 2nd episode before he made some shitty "joke" about trans people and a couple of comments that made me realise I was watching some kind of conservative personality, and I bailed out. So what's that, 4 years ago? He was already showing who he was back then, maybe he has got more unhinged since then, but this was all no surprise to me when I opened this article.
Folks take your kids to your local library. Get them reading as much as possible. Talk to them about how there are lots of interested parties who want to get them believing lies. Teach them that it's OK ask lots of questions and be wary of anything that is too easy or convenient. It's the only way we're going to combat this massive propaganda/disinformation war that is being waged in the world right now.
Oof. I never watched that show, but I suppose we just add it to the bigger picture of what was going on, right? Sorry you had to have that shit while you were stuck in lockdown.
Support for trans people really is a wedge issue. It is hard now to tease out issues; one bleeds into the other. I don’t want to just hold a package of opinions and values. I want some goddam nuance. But it’s becoming more like inclusivity, communality, listening, vs whatever that other lot do. I need to understand the whole thing better. Thanks David as usual for showing me bits of the world I wouldn’t normally see.
Thanks for being open to it and engaged, Karen. Makes my stuff worth writing!
There are a ton of little wedges.
Trans rights; racial equality; social equity; feminism; urban development; social welfare; voting systems; vaccines; virus theory (!); women's health; the list goes on.
And in any of these issues there may well be worthwhile nuanced discussion to be had, and there are definitely varied positions and ideas. But there is a massive and highly motivated universe of people who are actively exploiting honestly held uncertainty about these things by cynically introducing cultural war talking points designed to radicalise the uncertain into a specific reactionary position.
They literally have a term for it - "red pilling"
Once someone has swallowed one red pill on any of these issues, there's a complex and powerful network of interconnected ideas that rapidly pulls them toward others.
Was it trans sports that first pulled Leigh (or his hacker?) in that direction... No idea. Could have been that, but he's also expressed some fairly reactionary positions to Covid measures too, so maybe that was the way in?
As for any of the issues - you can absolutely hold nuanced positions on them. Even within those on the more "woke" side of any of them there's often pretty spirited dispute. But it helps to also try to "assume good intent" - that is to say, the people having these discussions are usually genuine and want good things for all involved. People suggesting that there are deep and complex conspiracies underlying it all are not coming from a good place.
This is probably an overly simplistic comment, but I think your last paragraph sums it up, “but the important thing is that they’re making massive bank”
Some people are susceptible, I imagine, to the dopamine kicks that come along with popularity, and as you said, as one fan base dwindles they desperately seek it out elsewhere. Driven by ego and money. Very disheartening when the worms infest those whom you’ve assumed would be immune.
I wonder if in a world where we all feel increasingly alienated from each other, that we’re all much more susceptible to this than we care to admit. We all just want to belong, and when belonging is increasingly harder to find, people take it where they can get it 🤷🏻♀️
The loosely termed "alt right" is always waiting with open arms and is definitely a community.
Sigh.
Yup! They'll literally take anyone while the left argues about which movies are feminist enough :( Poor Emily Writes had people blowing up her DMs about this very thing, and the opinions covered both ends of the spectrum. I wish we could get our shit together a bit more on the left! We can be pretty harsh on people when they fuck up. We could do with giving people a bit more grace and room to find their way back when they've messed up or fallen down a rabbit hole. Otherwise we risk pushing people over to the right and committing them to stay there.
Yes, I do believe the loss of community is a primary driver into what ails our society and feeds the worms. American society is so isolating. I don’t have any solutions other than to tear down our current track housing neighbourhoods and build smaller pod type neighbourhoods around a central garden and park. As well as to more mixed use zoning so neighbourhoods have cafes, bakeries, a pub etc. more like Europe, which would spur more walking, biking and connecting than solo driving.
They’ve got a conspiracy theory about living like that anyway… you wouldn’t get any of the people who need to be there into those neighbourhoods
It would take a complete do over of our current (American) society. So more a wish. And who knows if that make a significant difference or not. Europe is definitely not immune either. It’s a mix of lack of community, being anonymous of the socials, AI, religion and politics- we’re a complex, messy lot, us humans.
I'm so very glad I moved to NZ 16 years ago. What I noticed then: no Jesus fish stickers on cars. Now: Kiwis at least don't throw the shitty example of the US at me so often since this place has fast tracked to meet up with the ism champion. I find that my main feeling is not a new one, certainly one I can recall from being a kid and being hacked off that we shoved the First Nations into little pockets and were so very obviously exclusive and mean. That remains, but what I didn't have as a child and do now is a profound wish to burn it all down (safely somehow?) and start again.
Yes yes yes🥰
I think none of us is immune. We are bombarded with "information" all day long, through radio, internet, etc. Sorting out what is accurate from the reckons and misinformation is exhausting, especially if one also wants some sort of life.
My own method is to back out of everything when it threatens to overwhelm; look at the sky; look at small children, animals; remember what joy there is in wholehearted laughter. We can worry ourselves sick otherwise. Yes, there is a lot in the world that is horrible, but there is also much that is truly wonderful.
I think it depends on your core values though. There has to be a hook that makes these theories or opinions click for you that there is something in there that aligns with your world view. People that I have seen go down the cooker pipeline generally showed signs they were susceptible to conspiratorial thinking.
I think since Trump it has become more acceptable to say things out loud with no redress.