The time I met Karl Pilkington
"If you don’t have a plan, you can end up doing some interesting things can’t you?"
Hi,
A fun one today. I had a Facebook memory pop up from 2009. It was me in London’s Hyde Park, with Karl Pilkington. This is back when I was working as a reporter for TV3 in New Zealand.
You may know Karl Pilkington from his travel show, An Idiot Abroad. It’s a great travel show concept — sending a really naive British chap into some truly uncomfortable situations.
Of course there are other wonderful formats, like travelling with a chef who’s also deeply invested in humanity (Anthony Bourdain made transcendent travel TV) or hilarious stuff like pairing a host with his grumpy dad in Travels with My Father. As we were figuring out what Dark Tourist would be, all these shows were discussed.
But I stumbled on Karl years before Idiot Abroad, back when he was producing a tiny radio show on xFM in London, with two unknown hosts called Ricky Gervais and Steve Merchant. When that show started, you barely heard from Karl. But as the show went on, the hosts realised what a goldmine he was and started talking to him more and more.
(Thankfully, someone has archived all the xFM shows on Spotify. Here’s the playlist of the entire show, with the music clipped out.)
As Ricky Gervais launched the show that would make him a multi-millionaire (and insufferably, unfortunately) — The Office — the xFM show exploded, and they took the format they’d developed on xFM and launched a podcast called The Ricky Gervais Show. At the time, that turned into one of the most downloaded podcasts of all time. I highly recommend that, too. That translated into an animated show on HBO, and some book deals for Karl.
Which is how I ended up emailing Karl’s book agent in 2009, knowing I was going to be heading over to the UK for the first time in my life.
It was a strange, stressful and wonderful trip — I met someone who’d end up becoming one of my dearest friends to this day — and I also got to meet the man who’s made me laugh probably more than any other person: Karl Pilkington.
I swear to god, if I’m having a terrible day all I need to do is listen to those early xFM shows, or jump on YouTube to listen to one of Karl’s movie pitches — and I’m right as rain.
So — I’ve gone and dug up the raw footage of that interview I did (for broadcast back in New Zealand), and transcribed it for you. After each chunk, I’ve also embedded the video so you can watch it if you prefer.
I hope you like Karl as much as I do. About 500 people probably watched this when it was broadcast on New Zealand TV 12 years ago, so I am glad it gets a second life.
Happy days,
David.
A conversation with Karl Pilkington.
How are you? What are you up to at this moment?
Just pottering about, I mean there is nothing major going on. Nothing interesting I can tell you about. But then again I don’t think anyone is at the moment. Do you have Twitter?
We’ve got Twitter, yes.
You look at what people are doing on there and no-one is doing anything interesting. It’s all “taking the dog a walk” or —
Are you on Twitter?
No, not at all. I don’t bother. See it’s weird because I thought my life is not interesting enough. The highlight the other day was nipping out for an onion. I was doing some painting, and the flat stunk of paint and I thought “I’ll go get an onion” and I thought if that was on Twitter, that would be it. The main post of the day.
I don’t like people knowing what I am doing, I don’t understand why they’re happy with that. Maybe if I had something really good going on — I don’t think I’d tell you. I sort of think they will find out if it’s any good. Because a lot of people say “I’m doing this, that and the other” and nothing ever comes of it.
That’s the whole thing about the Internet — everyone is happy to put up all their photos…
But is anyone looking? It seems like everyone is doing that, telling everyone what they are doing and no-ones reading it. When you think — the internet is amazing, and we are using it just like junk mail. It’s stuff normally if it was posted through your door, it would be picked up and put in the bin. And yet this is all they seem to be doing.
It’s worked for you and the podcast in an extraordinary way.
I try not to figure it out. I mean people like it, we go in a room, no planning, we just sit down and have a chat and people download it all over the world. I think it is amazing, but the world is a big place, innit? So you only have to get a small percentage of the world interested in something and you can do alright out of it.
Whereas years ago you’d have to do something really good to get people listening to what you have to say. Do you know what I mean? You can bring anything out. Like my mum bought a gnome that whistles. When you walk past, it whistles. Now if that was brought out in 1936, people would go “put it in the bin” and that would be the end of it. Whereas now, bring anything out and if only 1% of the world goes “I am after a gnome that whistles” you’ll do alright, that will be a big money-making thing.
Is that a good thing?
Well, it’s easy for me to sell stuff. Like when cavemen came up with the wheel — it’s a brilliant invention, we’re still using it now — but back then, there wasn’t that many people to go knocking on doors going “Can I offer you a wheel?” you know? “What price will you give me for this?” so it’s easier now to sell a product, but the product is not as good as it used to be because it used to have to be something really good.
And that is the problem with the internet.
But it worked for your podcast. Even in New Zealand. Have you heard from any listeners in New Zealand?
Yeah, when we first started we used to have an email address but it used to get out of hand. Because you get the whole world going “A’right, can you give us a mention?” and there is no way you can do it.
There were like Eskimos emailing in [editor’s note: not the appropriate term, but let’s cut Karl some slack — it was 2009!] and that has been the one that has always stuck with me. Ricky was like “David Bowie listens to it, and people who make The Simpsons like it and all these Hollywood actors…” and for me it’s still that Eskimo. I just can’t imagine.
What did he have to say?
He just said sort of “Hello, just to let you know I’m listening”, you know? That has been the most amazing thing about it, the way you can say something and someone on the other side of the world hears it, and here we are in this little office in London. It’s nothing flash, a couple of mics and [we put] duvets up for the soundproofing. And then we are having a chat.
Has it changed your life very much, prior to this — to a lot of people knowing your life?
It hasn’t changed my life that much. You know, I was telling you a couple of minutes ago I nipped out to get an onion. This is not a celebrity lifestyle I’ve got. I mean, it has changed it in a way, that if someone had said to me when I was 14 “you will have done a few books and talked to people all over the world”, the thought would have terrified me.
It’s not something I wanted to do. If I have to stand up in front of people it makes me feel sick. But when you do stuff on the internet and forget about the people listening to it, it’s easy innit?
In terms of changing my life… now and again someone will say “Hello” and that is it. Someone I don’t know says hello. And I go “Hello”. And that’s it. That’s fame for me.
We thought we would get 20,000 people worldwide. So when it got into millions, it’s like “what’s going on?!” It’s stupid. But it’s timing innit? If we’d come up with it in 1988, and we brought it out on C90 cassettes, no one would have been interested. It’s just that “Oh, downloading!” And I think that was it, it was all timing. Ricky and Steve got popular with The Office and I brought nothing to it. I was just there at the right time. I was kinda like the Wise Men to Jesus, I just happened to be there, and yet I’m written about all the time now.
Is your persona on the podcast real?
Yeah, all that stuff. I mean you look on YouTube and they’re going “He’s an actor called Graeme”. And — who is that? Who is the person who wrote that?
See, that’s the thing with the internet. It’s been good to us, but it’s too easy for them to go “eeeh” — to comment on stuff. They go on iTunes to buy it and someone’s “four stars. Not sure about this one.” Don’t say anything then! If you’re not sure, that isn’t really an opinion. That shouldn’t even be allowed, that. It should be deleted.
When you go to the supermarket and you go to buy some bread there isn’t someone there going “I’m not sure about this bread”. If they like it, great. “It’s a bit yeasty” — fair enough. If they’re not sure, go away! It can be quite annoying the internet, just because everyone is allowed an opinion.
At the same time, someone else can go on there and go “shut up, that last person is being a knob.”
It all balances out in the end. Speaking of which, what’s next for you? Any holidays planned?
Pfffft. There is always a holidays close by as my girlfriend likes going away. But nothing that great. The weird thing is, everything’s that happened so far has never been planned. And I kinda of like to leave it like that. Because if you don’t have a plan, you can end up doing some interesting things can’t you?
Yeah. Life takes you some different directions.
If you don’t close the door on stuff. I didn’t go to university or anything so I sometimes think I wish I had, because I would have learnt a lot. But if you spend seven years learning to be a doctor, you can’t go “I’m going to go and do an audiobook” because you put so much of your life into learning about it, then you have people going “Hang on there, there aren’t enough doctors in the world, stop messing about on the internet and get into surgery again!”
It can bog you down, can’t it? — specialising in something. Whereas I prefer to go “whatever comes along, I’ll give it a go.” That is what happened with the audiobooks and the books that I have done, the publisher said “can you do a book?”
From someone that has not come from university what is the most interesting thing you have learnt?
I like nature. Nature is the best thing. Stuff that no-one has invented, it’s just survived. A lot of creatures you go “I don’t know how it survived” — and now we sort of interfere so creatures that wouldn’t have survived years ago, we don’t let anything die do we? It’s kind of like “we’re running out of polar bears, save them.” Whereas years ago they’d be dead by now.
You don’t think we should save them?
I don’t think we should interfere. I know that we are messing up the planet and stuff and that is a bit bad, that polar bears are struggling because of us. But then you’ve got to get stronger, don’t you? We change, we adapt. And some things do adapt.
I mean, I’ve seen squirrels in this park eating Mars Bars. That should never have happened, but it’s what they’ve done. They’ve got fatter, and they’re a bit more aggressive. They used to be happy with an acorn but they put their nose up an acorn and are more like “where’s the Mars Bar?” They’re more aggressive.
How do you mean?
It’s like they’re sugared up. It’s like a kid who has too many smarties, they’re running around, their violent. Now the polar bear — that’s what they need to do. Get more aggressive. Do you have them in New Zealand or is that Australia?
No — well, one floated on an iceberg, but quite far away. Stranded. He couldn’t do anything.
What happened?
He fell off, and that was it.
Oh well there’s a bit of you going “that’s a bit tight” but then — I dunno. If it learnt to swim and then it got stronger and it got to the shores of Australia, people would have been like “Kill it!” Wouldn’t they! They wouldn’t want that roaming around.
So yeah, a day can’t go by where you look up a creature and go “you’re joking, I didn’t know about that.” That is the thing that keeps me interested in life. Because a lot of life isn’t interesting, it’s all been done.
You said you had never been to university, and you have a good job now — if you could have another job though, what would you do?
Being a surgeon would be brilliant. That is the closest to superman. You’re saving lives, you’re important, people respect you. I don’t know if I’d be good at it.
Because your parents wanted you to be —
Yeah my mum wanted me to be a doctor, I think that’s every parents sort of ‘up there’.
Yeah I tried a year of that.
What did you learn?
Not much, I can barely remember.
First year? That’s just learning to put a plaster on a cut innit?
A lot of theory — a lot about internal organs, that sort of thing.
It’s amazing, isn’t it? It’s not like being a car mechanic where they bring out a different car with a different engine and fittings. A mechanic has to keep learning new things. The body hasn’t changed has it? Once you’ve changed one lung you’ve changed them all.
In a way, it’s not that tricky — it’s just you have someone’s life in your hands and if it goes wrong everyone is going to find out about it. Whereas a vet, same job but if you kill a cat no-one bats an eye-lid. So it’s just that fine line about the amount of stress in the job. But that would be the ultimate thing. But that is not going to happen now.
Well, you’re in a good place. I mean — it would be nice if you visited New Zealand sometime. That would be a nice thing to do.
It’s too far.
It’s a long flight. 20 hours. But think of the new creatures you’d discover. Our national bird is the kiwi. It can’t fly, its wings are too small.
How do you feel about that?
I don’t think it’s the best icon to have because it’s — you want an eagle or something.
I thought it was a fruit.
There is a kiwi fruit as well.
So does the fruit do more than the bird? So what are they for then? They can’t fly, you can’t eat them, what do they do all day?
They don’t even come out during the day, they come out at night.
So if it wasn’t the fact it was on a flag you probably wouldn’t see one. I mean flags are dying out. People don’t really have flags these days. Not over here anyway. I haven’t had a flag for years. The Queens birthday back in 1973 we had trifle and a flag, that was it.
But um… kiwi. Kiwi bird. By rights it shouldn’t be around anymore. If it’s sleeping all day so it’s bone idle, you can’t eat it, it’s got wings that don’t work. It’s a write-off.
Get rid of it?
I’d say get rid of it.
I mean that was a programme I wanted to do, sort of going through all the different species and saying “What do they do?”
If we got rid of the kiwi, how would the world change? They say if you got rid of all the bees, the population would die out in three years.
Because of the complex ecosystems.
Just because of what they do. They’re busy. Busy bee. The kiwi — if it’s asleep all day, don’t even wake it up. He can’t even be doing anything. What’s he doing at night when he awake?
Eating bugs. And that’s part of the eco-system again.
But there’s got to be something else that eats bugs. There’s always something to do a job.
You could almost do that with all creatures though. Unless we’re eating them, you could almost think “we don’t need them”…
No because they all do do something. Most of them do.
The octopus?
I wonder is it necessary to have all the arms they’ve got because they never seem that busy, but it’s jellyfish for me. When I called up an expert about that, they said “turtles eat them”. I said “yeah” and they said “what would turtles eat if we got rid of jellyfish?” And I said they’d find something. That’s what you do.
If you go to the shop and it’s shut, you nick to another one. If Burger King’s shut, McDonalds. So I just think that is what the seals would do, the sea is massive there is loads of stuff in there.
But they’re not doing any harm?
What, the jellyfish?
Yeah.
Well I went on holiday and got stung by one. So it is a bit of a personal issue I’ve got. But the fact is, I didn’t do anything towards it and yet it stung me.
But you got in its space.
Yeah, but why is it so close to the shore? It’s got all that space. I’m staying in about five foot of water, I am not pushing my luck. I am on holiday, I am having a nice time. And I had not been in the sea for about 10 years because there is too much stuff in there I am not aware of.
I respect it, you don’t come on our land, and I don’t go in the sea. And my girlfriend was like “it’s brilliant, it’s really clear, it’s beautiful. It’s not like the sea in England, it’s the Caribbean.” So I thought “alright then”. Got in it, had a go.
And it was great. Really relaxing. I had eczema on my legs and she said the sea water would be good for that. I am just going in and something grabbed my foot and it was like glass being put through my foot. And I was like “god what’s that?” and I got out and I did not want to make a show. I looked at my foot and parts of its legs were still wrapped around it. They come out of nowhere. There was no warning.
If it was on top of the water I would respect that and get out. But it’s underneath, it just kind of grabs you. It was just a lunatic. When the excuse for keeping them on the planet is “turtles eat ‘em” — get rid of them. I could easily put a case forward. And they say they’re 97% water or something, give them another 3% and let’s have water. Water is more useful than this blob of stuff. I never hear a good word about ‘em. Get rid of them.
Just back to your show — all the ribbing you got from Ricky in the show, did you ever get sick of it?
Well there’s two of them, you’re never going to win. The other thing is that is what Ricky is like, he winds up his mates. He has a comedian mate he takes on tour, and the things he does to him — digs holes on beaches, puts him in it, puts the sand back and waits for the tide to come in. There is another he wraps up in gaffer tape.
Now when I see that, he squeezes me head. And they probably dream of having their head squoze. They are being put in holes and taped up, I have got it easy. It could be a lot worse. And that is a lesson in life isn’t it: the grass is always greener.
Be thankful with your lot.
It’s not that bad, he likes to have a wrestle now and then. I’m more like a personal trainer than a mate. He’ll sort of say “come around to the office” and I’ll think it’s some work, “do you want to record something?” and he’ll just go “let’s have a wrestle!” It’s not normal, but what is normal?
You get used to it. And it’s only when I get home from the meeting, if you want call it that, and my girlfriend goes “your head looks a bit red” — I go “yeah I’ve had a meeting” and she’s go “oh yeah, Ricky’s had a meeting.” It’s just the norm.
Finally — I could talk to you all day — I know “Monkey News” was a big thing on the podcast. Is there anything new? Or has that come to an end?
At the beginning I thought it was an endless supply of things monkeys were getting up to, but with everything there comes a natural end. I mean you could weaken it and find out things monkeys are doing that I could report on, but you have to have some sort of cut off point. Monkeys had to do more and more stuff to impress me, so news about a monkey being a Formula One driver was no longer impressive.
So that was my talk with Karl Pilkington. If you’re not familiar with Karl and the way his brain works, I’m not quite sure what you’ll make of him. He has a deeply British sensibility, and if you’re not tuned in it may not connect.
To me — I appreciate the strange, warped view he has on things. He’s obsessed with strange comparisons between various animals and humans, and his point of view combined with his strange story-telling abilities just make him unmatched to me.
Some of his advice I’ve genuinely taken to heart. I hold fast to Karl’s mantra of you don’t get anything done by planning. And honestly, for me — it works. The second I over-plan anything, it all falls apart. The best things in my life, personal and work-wise — all come as a surprise with very little planning. Tickled was unplanned. So is Webworm. Hell, I started this thing on a whim during lockdown last year and it’s so incredibly satisfying and fun to write, it’s truly a joy. An unplanned joy. I don’t even plan what I am going to write — it’s as much of a surprise to me as it is to you.
Anyway — I will leave you with my main takeaways from our talk. I hope they help you. Talk soon.
David.
On fame: Now and again someone will say “Hello” and that is it. Someone I don’t know says hello. And I go “Hello”. And that’s it. That’s fame for me.
The internet: It can be quite annoying, just because everyone is allowed an opinion.
On opinions on the internet: We are using it just like junk mail. It’s stuff normally if it was posted through your door, it would be picked up and in the bin.
On squirrels: I’ve seen squirrels in this park eating Mars Bars.
On doctors: The body hasn’t changed has it? Once you’ve changed one lung you’ve changed them all.
On planning: If you don’t have a plan, you can end up doing some interesting things can’t you?
On finding your audience: The world is a big place, innit? So you only have to get a small percentage of the world interested in something and you can do alright out of it.
The kiwi bird: By rights it shouldn’t be around anymore. If it’s sleeping all day so it’s bone idle, you can’t eat it, it’s got wings that don’t work. It’s a write-off.
On jellyfish: They say they’re 97% water. Give them another 3% and let’s have water. Water is more useful than this blob of stuff. I never hear a good word about ‘em.
On talking about your plans before they’ve happened: I don’t like people knowing what I am doing, I don’t understand why they’re happy with that. Maybe if I had something really good going on — I don’t think I’d tell you. I sort of think they will find out if it’s any good. Because a lot of people say “I’m doing this, that and the other” and nothing ever comes of it.
